I now believe Trump will be removed from office.

[LuckyCharms]

For whatever my little opinion is worth.

I've been going back and forth in my own mind about this, but this morning, it kind of hit me. He will be removed. I'm not sure of the mechanism, but he is gone one way or another.

I believe this because pretty much everything we talk about, everything we see, is bullshit distraction. There are some serious people left in the world, and Robert Mueller is one of them. The guy took down John Gotti and Sammy the Bull for fucksake.

Mueller does not give two shits about the stupid crap Trump does on a daily basis. We're talking about a guy who got shot in the leg, and then returned to battle. We're talking about a guy who is so focused that he has not said one word since this investigation started.

Trump and his family are fucked and you can take that to the bank.

[True Dough]

1. So tell us

when these thoughts were going through your mind, LuckyCharms, were you wearing pants or not?

[LuckyCharms]

2. Yes. On my head. Over my face. To stimulate my mind.

[Zoonart]

3. LOL

[True Dough]

10. And

how did they smell?

[LuckyCharms]

11. How did who smell?

[True Dough]

12. The pants over your head?

[LuckyCharms]

13. Uh...I don't wear pants over my head.

Not sure where you got that idea. I think you meant to reply to someone else.

[Hamlette]

118. lol

[catbyte]

36. WTF?!?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

117. Welcome to the club!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Not unless there are 67 Democratic senators.

[LuckyCharms]

5. I do not think impeachment will be the mechanism. n/t

[roamer65]

7. I would agree with you on that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Removal or conviction requires 67 votes.

The only way to get to 67 is if the Deplorables among the populous abandon him and the Deplorables in the Senate follow suit. That seems unlikely

[LuckyCharms]

14. He will be forced out of office by one of 2 ways:

1) Public outrage will make resignation his only option

2) Conviction

Impeachment will not be possible.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. Even if Mueller indicted him, the indictment would be challenged.

It would likely take the rest of his term to litigate the indictment and conduct a trial.


As to a resignation unless the economy tanks his base will stick with him and even if it tanks they still might.



We're stuck with him until/unless we find enough Republican senators to remove him.




P.S. Even if it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt Trump conspired with the Russians to hijack our election his base doesn't care.

[LuckyCharms]

16. I understand your position, but I believe

that the results of the investigation will be shocking, heinous, and unprecedented. His base won't have a say in it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. His base is represented by the Republicans in Congress.

If his base concludes conspiring with Russia to hijack our election was okay the Republicans in Congress will embrace their conclusion.

I don't know how to say it politely so I will just say it plainly. His base couldn't care less about conspiracy as long as Trump is pissing off liberals. They would eat shit if liberals had to smell it.

[LuckyCharms]

18. I'm not talking about conspiracy with the Russians.

I'm talking about activities that were mainly done before he was a candidate.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Trump could have murdered someone and they wouldn't care.

If it was a a liberal, a person of color, a member of the lgbtq community, an immigrant they would give him extra points.


It's a cult.

[Oldtimeralso]

177. It is a cult

CULT 45

[PearliePoo2]

42. I keep thinking back to what Steve Schmidt told Stephanie Ruhle on MSNBC about a year ago.

He said that when this all comes out (and it WILL) that the findings will BLOW the American people's minds. It will be absolutely shocking and the biggest scandal in our nation's history.

Stephanie's eyes got big, her jaw dropped and she looked really frightened. Then she looked right into the camera and said, "Did you all just hear that?"

Harold Ford was sitting next to Steve, he nodded, stared down at the table and looked like he was going to cry. Seriously.

That was a year ago! I don't know what all Schmidt knows or how he knows it, but he was VERY confident in saying what he did. It certainly scared the bejesus out of me!

[SharonAnn]

48. I remember Watergate. Thought it was puzzling and a real "nothingburger", AND THEN!,

The evidence was indisputable!

[rtracey]

178. hmmmm

His base are people like Louie Gohmert, and cretins like that. As Fuckump spews his FAKE messages, his base are swallowing them hook, line and sinker. They will NEVER think the Mueller investigation is legal and true. They will always feel the FBI, CIA, etc are plants and are working against Fuckump, because he is telling them that. IF and when the Mueller investigation come to a conclusion....and I say if, because I think its going to be scuttled, the corrupted right wing of congress will block it. I take the horrendous treatment of the FBI agent this last week, and the series of total bullshit political pussy grabbing they did with this guy.

[whathehell]

51. Nixon had a 29% percent approval rating when he was forced out..

Whether Trump's base "cares" or not doesn't matter -- They can't overrturn the rule of law.

[Garrett78]

58. Trump is openly breaking laws right now. Who is going to force him out?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. Respectfully, this is a fantasy.

Best case scenario. We win back the Senate with a 52 vote majority. That means we hold all our seats up for re-election, all twenty three of them, and pick up AZ, TN, and NV. This is the equivalent of a Royal Flush in poker. We still need 15 Deplorable, i.e. Republican votes to convict Trump and remove him from office.

If Mueller indicts him it will likely take most of the rest of Trump's term to litigate it and see it through to a verdict, if it gets that far.

A more realistic agenda would be winning the House and Senate and stymieing Trump's agenda.

[Garrett78]

68. No fantasy here. We're in agreement.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

74. Not you. The others.

It's theoretically possible to find fifteen Republican votes for conviction and removal but I don't see any real world circumstances where that can occur. At the end of the day Nixon resigned because he didn't have the votes in the Senate to thwart conviction. Also, the backdrop to Watergate was a recession. That helped poison the atmosphere. We aren't in a recession now.

In the highly unlikely event Mueller indicts him Trump will spend the remainder of his term litigating it.

A smarter scenario is if we win both the Senate and House is to hold lots of hearings and demonstrate his corruption to those Americans who don't belong to his cult and weaken him and his party in 2020.

[Nasruddin]

73. Ungovernable

The US stands a good chance of being an ungovernable mess at the federal level if Dems win both
houses. There won't be enough votes to overcome vetos. The supreme court might
fully change into the unelected, unaccountable legislature it has always threatened to become.
(On this I find myself in uncomfortable agreement with some libertarians.)
Mr Trump will continue to rule by occasional decree.

We better be prepared for this. It will give the Republicans an easy 2020 victory if
we are not careful.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

75. Nothing much will get done.

But what's left of the status quo like the ACA for instance is infinitely better than GOP change.

Actually I think success in 018 means more success in 2020. If Trump is losing it now one can imagine how much he will lose it with a Democratic congress.

[cheri010353]

77. I think

that would be fun to watch - until he loses it completely and then it would be scary.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. He is already unstable.

I guess it's possible he has a stroke or complete personality disintegration.

[Maraya1969]

141. You forget the carnival a case against Trump would be, televised. The Rethugs and Fox

hide so much from a lot of people now. If he is impeached they can't hide it. It will be all over the place. All those people who don't pay attention to the Russia investigation will end up learning a whole lot about what the pres. actually did to get himself a seat in the White House.

[True Blue American]

173. And Republicans are helping Trump!

Until that trash is swept out the door nothing will change. Gluttony and greed rule!

[Danascot]

189. I'm hoping indictments of a number of republican congress persons

would help get the public's attention. Accompanying those indictments would be Mueller's filings about how they participated in Trump-Russia which would be detailed and devastating. It would be difficult for the M$M to ignore.

The suspects:

Matt Gaetz
Trey Gowdy
Bob Goodlatte
Paul Ryan
Mitch McConnell
Jim Jordan
Dana Rohrabacher
Paul Gosar
Louis Gohmert
Ron DeSantis
Devin Nunes
Darrell Issa
Steve King

[True Blue American]

190. Add Mark Meadows to that list.

He is one of them.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. Nixon resigned because he lacked the votes in the Senate to thwart conviction/removal.

If there were thirty four senators who would have voted against conviction he would have finished his term.

There are not 67 votes in the Senate to remove Trump. Even the most optimistic projections give us a 52 seat Senate majority. There are not 16 Deplorables , i.e. Republicans in the Senate who will vote to remove Trump from office. The three most anti-Trump Republican senators are Flake, Corker, and McCain. Flake and Corker are retiring and McCain is ill.

[whathehell]

99. The charges against Nixon were SO much less serious than

Collusion or Conspiracy with a foreign government -- No political party, can ignore them. With that said,.I'm sure you'll continue to enjoy the pessimism.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

101. You are confusing pessimissm with realism.

Osama bin Laden said "We love death more than you (America) loves life."

What part of the fact that Deplorables hate liberals, glbtq people, Hispanics, African Americans, and immigrants more than they love America don't you understand ?



Why do you think Trump is going to Helsinki tomorrow to thank Putin for his help?

[whathehell]

104. No, you are confusing opinion with fact.

and Osama bin Laden died because he misunderstood America.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

107. You offered an opinion.

You opined that the Deplorables will be aghast when they learned the Russians helped Trump win and he solicited, welcomed and encouraged that help and will consequently turn against him. That's an opinion in search of evidence.

My opinion is the Deplorables will countenance any action Trump has taken or will take up to and including 'shooting somebody on Fifth Avenue.' Given the fact that Trump's approval stands at 87% among Deplorables, i.e. Republicans:


https://qz.com/1295674/donald-trump-now-owns-the-republican-party/

my opinion is more grounded in reality.

Hope in one hand, poo poo in the other, see which gets filled first.

[whathehell]

109. Yes, but, unlike you, I didn't confuse it with fact...

That's the crucial difference...You have a nice one, now.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

112. We want the same outcome. Where we differ is in estimating the probability of it.

I would like to see him led away in handcuffs or have a complete personality disintegration where he is unable to operate.

[PatrickforO]

78. Yeah, but I care. And so do millions and millions of other Americans.

And if we continue the 'resist' methods of exerting massive popular pressure on these otherwise-corporate-owned slugs in DC, then they will vote the way WE want them to, not the way the Koch brothers, Mercers, Sheldon Adelson or the big Wall Street guys want them to.

All of you heed this: There is massive wealth lined up against righteousness, but it is nothing compared to the weight of our numbers. The biggest fear the billionaire freaks have is that we will find that out.

I call my US Senators at least once a week, write several letters and sign petitions. If enough of us do that, it does make a difference.

In the meantime, think long game as well - get active in the local Democratic party. Get to know the candidates for local office and support them. This is what the Tea Party did in less than a decade (with Koch brothers funding). May take us longer, but we will be strong as citizens.

We cannot give up.

As to Lucky's original OP, it may be that we are strong enough to get rid of this treasonous cancer. And it permeates the entire national Republican party - McConnell, Ryan, and many others, as well as Trump and his miserable, disgusting, immoral administration.

[orangecrush]

161. Fuck his base.

He lost the popular vote.


I really don't give a flying fuck about those mental midgets.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

179. Removing him from office has nothing to do with affinity for Deplorables.

It takes 67 votes to convict and remove a president from office in an impeachment trial. I'm waiting for the names of fifteen on the optimistic side and twenty on the pessimistic side of Deplorable, i.e. Republican senators who will vote to convict and remove him from office in an impeachment trial.

[JarOCats]

22. Now, there's something I hadn't considered:

Conviction without impeachment. Not that the former requires the latter, but the idea of a POTUS being removed from office solely through criminal conviction is so unprecedented, it boggles the mind. But there's no reason it can't happen.

It would be just another stain on the GOP-controlled Congress if they refused to impeach him even after conviction -- but then, they have no shame.

Would it be possible to impeach him, just as a formality, even after he's out of office?

[oasis]

150. An indictment millstone around Trump's neck will have him tweeting

his bloated ass off. The cloud over his presidency will drive him out of his already twisted mind.

I'm liking it.

[JarOCats]

170. Don't tease me.

[world wide wally]

46. Key term: conviction

[fallout87]

63. Mueller plays by the books.

He has already stated to trumps counsel that DOJ just does allow for indicting a sitting president.

Impeachment, per the constitution, is the only mechanism for removal of a president.

[LiberalArkie]

72. Or an accident happens with "the old, outdated" Air Force 1

[Chemisse]

85. There was outrage galore in the UK.

Trump just said they were protesting FOR him. I don't think he really cares about public outrage.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

111. He knows that's a lie. He says things like that to keep his base with him.

Many of them are stupid enough to actually believe anything he says, no matter how blatantly false.

[lancelyons]

87. The public out rage is already there for most of the world

For most of America the outrage is there. However we have some 32% or 40-50 million that love everything that we are outraged at. Why because if liberals are outraged trumpsters are joyous.

[Orsino]

94. He can't be indicted while president.

That leaves only resignation.

[Honeycombe8]

159. Well, that's open. It's never been tried. If Kavanaugh is confirmed, Trump won't be indicted.

Kavanaugh does not think a sitting President can or should be indicted or sued civilly.

Trump will only resign under a real threat of impeachment by the GOP Congress. Otherwise, he will never resign. It's not in his genes. He trained under Roy Cohn. Never give up, never resign, deny everything til the end, destroy your enemies for the slightest infraction or criticism...mobster mentality. Trump is a mob boss, in a way.

[Honeycombe8]

157. Trump will never resign. If Kavanaugh is confirmed, he won't be indicted or convicted.

1. If you read up on Trump's training in the mob ways of NY real estate wheeling & dealing, his mentor Roy Cohn, you will understand that he will never, ever resign voluntarily. Only if the GOP in Congress convince him to, under a real threat of impeachment.

2. Kavanaugh's position on the presidency is that a sitting President cannot be criminally charged/indicted and can't be sued while in office. Even agencies cannot do things the President doesn't want. That's why Kavanaugh is the S.Ct. nominee. To protect Trump.

BUT, there is a chance that if he is indicted soon (if there is evidence of crime, which we don't know), there won't be time for Kavanaugh to be confirmed.

There is an outside chance that in the face of real crimes, the GOP sh*thole Repubs will impeach him, or force him to "resign" or face impeachment. In that instance, it MAY be possible to get him to resign involuntarily, as a checkmate thing.

[kag]

167. So, we're back to our last, best hope? Cholesterol? n/t

[Drake Notthesinger]

168. Trump WILL NOT Resign

Not a chance in hell.

[Cheviteau]

79. Let Me Speculate Here

Mueller has enough on the RNC to bring down the whole party. Don't think for one minute the House and Senate won't throw that s.o.b. under the bus to save themselves. Self-survival is the first law of nature. I agree with LuckyCharm that Trump is done. I suggest everyone keep in mind that this is a counter-intelligence operation. Not specific to Trump. This is not going away. Counter-intelligence operations do not fold up at the whim of politicians.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

80. If their whole party was in cahoots with Russia

If their whole party was in cahoots with Russia wouldn't that just be one more reason for Republicans to say it's no big deal ?

The Deplorables are happy Putin helped their guy win. I assure you the Deplorables like Putin better than they like liberals, Muslims, glbtq people, Hispanics, and African Americans.

[Dream Girl]

138. Bingo!

[fallout87]

62. impeachment is the ONLY mechanism

for removing a president.

[AZ8theist]

86. not true.

Death and the 25th Amendment are other mechanisms.

[fallout87]

89. How many presidents have been removed by the 25th amendment?

?

[whathehell]

100. How many were charged with some of Treason or Espionage?

[fallout87]

106. Exactly.

It's fantasy to believe tRump is charged with treason or espionage. Mueller isn't the avenue to rid us of him... the ballot box is.

[whathehell]

181. Uh..No.

and I can't imagine why you interpreted my post as being in agreement with you.

The ballot box is needed for a Democratic Congress, but suggesting that Mueller is "worthless" to this enterprise is nothing short of bizarre.

[PBC_Democrat]

139. The 25th Amendent is NOT the answer that you think it is ...

Last edited Sun Jul 15, 2018, 07:12 PM - Edit history (1)

It was enacted after Pres Kennedy was shot and the PTB were concerned about a situation where the President was incapacitated but doesn't die.

They needed a way to remove power from a President who couldn't sign-over power.

Section Four of the 25th allows for the VP and a majority of the cabinet to install the VP as the acting President.

But the kicker is that all the President has to do is deliver a letter to Congress stating that he is able to execute the duties of the office and he is back in.

Had Pres Kennedy been in a coma or otherwise unable to communicate - he would have been unable to sent the resumption of power letter

Text of 25th, section four below:
Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty-eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty-one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty-one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two-thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

[AZ8theist]

191. He's mentally deficient

and will not be getting better. There are multiples of people in institutions who exhibit less instability than the Dotard clown.

If removed for mental incapacity, at his advanced stage of dementia he'll never get it back.

Thanks for the 25th explanation. Facts are always better than the bile coming out of Repukes mouths...

[PBC_Democrat]

192. I'm agreeing with you on his mental incapcity ...

But it won't stop him from being able to write, or have write for him, the reinstatement letter.

The 25th was meant for physically incapacitated occupants of the Oval Office.

[ThoughtCriminal]

164. Simple majority in either House or Senate Tax Returns exposed

Once that happens it will not be a matter of resignation or impeachment. It will be a question of extradition.

[jmowreader]

50. We won't need any more than that

When Prosecutor Mueller comes back with proof Trump worked with the Russians to steal the election, the RNC is going to be pissed. They’re standing by Trump because he gives them things they like - right-wing judges, no regulation and lots of fun Democrat/media/liberal slams - but they won’t stand by in the face of proof of how rotten he is.

Either the RNC or the Republicans in Congress are going to give him a choice: you, Pence and your whole cabinet resign right now, or we’ll impeach you all. At which point Paul Ryan becomes a caretaker president, and we’re looking at ten years of Republicans being very much in the minority.

[onlyadream]

53. I don't think they'll be pissed

As long as he does what they want, they’ll look the other way (just like the evangelicals currently do).

[Garrett78]

57. Exactly. They're as corrupt and evil as Trump.

Trump is openly breaking laws right now and Republicans don't care.

[KitSileya]

135. Yup. My bet is that they'll seize on Tad Devine when it all breaks,

Because of his ties to Manafort. Alongside the fact that Russia helped Sanders and Stein too, (as shown in the indictments, and what BS has admitted himself,) they won't care whether Sen. Sanders wanted the support or knew about Devine's ties, they'll use it as a cudgel of bothsiderism, and enough people will believe the Dems were traitors too (never mind that BS isn't even a Dem) that the GOP will weather the storm.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. The GOP hates the same people Trump and his base does.

He has all the right enemies according to them. In fact they are happy the Russians stole the election for them. they just can't admit it for obvious reasons.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

187. They will be pissed he/they got caught.

They welcome the help and would continue to welcome the help if they could get away with it.

[NewJeffCT]

185. There were not 67 Democrats when Nixon was going to be impeached

Let's say Democrats pick up 30-35 seats in the House (or more) and miraculously pick up 3 seats in the Senate. (Personally, I think if Democrats broken even in the Senate, it would be an upset)

Democrats then hold public hearings and call Donald Trump Jr, Jared Kushner, Michael Cohen (witness against Trump?), etc to testify in public and on TV. Under tough questioning from Democrats, lightweights like Don Jr, Kushner or somebody else will likely wilt and say something stupidly incriminating. Even Fox News won't be able to spin a stupid incrimination that quickly and the news goes viral and actively turns previously passive and uninterested independents and the few remaining sane Republicans against Team Trump. Maybe in a few Republicans in Congress?

And, until the Nixon tapes came out, most Republicans strongly supported Nixon.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

186. The only reason Nixon resigned is because he didn't have the 67 votes in the Senate

The only reason Nixon resigned is because he didn't have the 67 votes in the Senate to thwart impeachment/conviction.

Let's stipulate the Democrats have 52 Democratic seats in the 116th Congress. Please name the 15 Deplorable, i.e. Republican senators who will vote to convict and remove Trump from office.

Thank you in advance.

P.S. I would add the backdrop to Watergate was a nasty recession and stock market crash. If Nixon had a healthy economy and a right wing echo chamber fueled by FOX NEWS he might have survived.

[Generic Brad]

6. He's not the only one who will be removed

It is clear to me that Mueller is ferreting out every traitor. This will not end with Trump.

And in the end, that is what needs to happen to make this country move forward. We forgave the transgressions of the Civil War and went into a state of denial by giving the leaders a free pass. In my lifetime we have let a large number of government criminals go away unpunished - Watergate, Iran-Contra, the Valerie Plame leak, shooting a guy in the face, stealing elections, etc. That is a mistake this country has made repeatedly and is now paying a price for.

Turning a blind eye repeatedly has only emboldened the worst among us to spread and overtake decent people as political kudzu. This shit needs to be hacked down, dug up by the roots and burned to the ground. If we allow any of the guilty to get a free pass on any aspect of this betrayal, then we they will only come back stronger. It needs to end now!

[LuckyCharms]

8. +1

[JarOCats]

24. Bingo. American de-Nazification. (NM)

[volstork]

93. I agree 100%.

We need to clear out all of the rot and face up to what got us to this point. Only then can we heal.

[Dream Girl]

140. Hear, hear!

[Rhiannon12866]

166. +100!

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

188. Well said

[Hortensis]

19. Trump will eventually be impeached. Impeachment will occur

when there is sufficient BIPARTISAN agreement, joining a portion of the Republican electorate with Democratic voters, that he needs to be removed, thus empowering the process. He will not be impeached as a shabby political gesture without possibility of removal because Democrats don't do that sort of thing.

Bipartisan agreement will occur when enough Republicans get scared and hurt enough and/or disgusted with having chosen a "loser" instead of the strong leader they thought they were getting. Unfortunately, we now know it will not happen when enough draw the line morally, ethically, patriotically, intellectually or even according to their professed religious doctrine.

An different possibility would be that fascist leaners will outvote those committed to democracy and Trump will remain until another authoritarian faction deposes him.

November 6 is when we kill that possibility off.

[forgotmylogin]

35. I agree he'll get impeached...

but I don't think he'll be convicted. I predict a big huffy resignation with shouts that "America doesn't deserve" him and officially he wants to "spend more time with his family and other business opportunities."

[Hortensis]

43. Yes to that! Resignation to avoid removal and/or post-removal

prosecution is more likely. Kind of skipped over that one.

Speaking of, our VP is so silent it's easy to forget he's a major power center waiting to move into the oval office -- or to make his own resignation deal. Wonder what Mueller knows.

[Garrett78]

60. You think more highly than I do of Republicans in Congress.

They're as corrupt and evil as Trump.

[Hortensis]

84. No, I really don't! Their handlers have gotten some

good out of Trump, but Trump is bad for business. And only some of them are white nationalists and/or think an authoritarian/fascist government would be in their own best interests. Pence would be much better for business. He is a religious extremist, but I imagine they believe he'd be far easier to control. At least, we know the Kochs do.

[OliverQ]

133. Then why haven't they gotten rid of Trump yet?

They have plenty of grounds to do so and install Pence.

[Hortensis]

137. Ask them. For sure they have reasons. I can offer,

though, the reality that rejecting over a dozen other candidates to elect Trump was an attempted rebellion against their control of the party leadership and intentions of dismantling government programs most trumpsters are actually very fond of. Taking Trump out prematurely would almost certainly create bigger problems still. They need better control, not smarter (or at least less abysmally stupid) and more determined rebels.

[eallen]

20. I think you're far too optimistic.

I see no reason he won't finish his first term.

Unless we work hard, he may get a second.

[Different Drummer]

98. I've resigned myself to Tangerine Wankmaggot getting two full terms.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I don't think it's going to work out that we won't get eight full years of him doing his deviltry. I'm sure his base would be thrilled if somebody could come up with a way to circumvent the 22nd Amendment.

[fallout87]

113. Im there too

Unfortunately. Regardless of all the speculation... the fact remains that just about every president serves two terms. The pendulum always swings that way.

[Raine]

172. Me too

I'm just being realistic here.

[Buckeyeblue]

23. It will have to be resignation

With a deal to not prosecute him or his family. That's the only way I see it happening.

[exboyfil]

28. Such a deal will be political suicide

It would be far worse than Ford pardoning Nixon. In spite of all the crap that Nixon pulled, he still was a public servant for most of his career and was not driven by greed. Once the cult figures out they can't get what they want from Trump or figure out he has been deceiving them all along, they very well might turn on him.

Perhaps a health emergency can be dreamed up that would elicit enough sympathy. Also we might be going back to the status quo where US oligarchs are not prosecuted for their crimes. That is the default position right now with the Republican party.

In fact I would like to see Mueller or someone like him go after additional US oligarchs who flaunt our laws. I think far too little effort has been done in that case. This money laundering is being done by lots of other people besides Trump.

[NickB79]

25. 25th Amendment solutions. nt

[exboyfil]

31. It can't be sustained in the Senate or the House

and it actually does not remove the President. Depending on how persistent Trump is, you will need to have a periodic series of 3/4 votes in the House and Senate until his term is up.

That is the least likely option.

My vote is for a fake medical condition done in such a way to elicit sympathy. The payoff would be a backdoor agreement to not go after his cash (Trump or his family members will never spend a day in jail no matter what happens).

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Maybe all that cholesterol will finally get him.

That would be the neatest, least controversial way.

If there is a God....

[dflprincess]

56. Too good for him

I want him shamed and hopefully indictred. I want the Trump and Kushner names considered so disgraceful that Barron and all the grandkids change their names and spend their lives keeping low profiles.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

76. I think that will happen anyhow. His name will be in the anti-pantheon of traitors

like Benedict Arnold, Aldrich Ames, Robert Olssen and Vidkun Quisling.

[FM123]

90. Yes!

We should all be sending him buckets and buckets of KFC! (I think he said that was his fave)

[Hamlette]

120. only the good die young

[roamer65]

27. The military can remove him from office.

Read the oath they take...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Uniformed_Services_Oath_of_Office

I would say a Russian loving treason weasel is a direct threat to the Constitution of the United States.

Don’t for one second think it hasn’t crossed their minds.

[exboyfil]

33. No way

That is even less likely than the 25th amendment.

[shanny]

41. No, they can't.

There is such a thing as due process, and "military coup" is not included.

[roamer65]

122. Yes they can and they just may.

Democracies usually decay into military dictatorships. When the democratic process grinds to an absolute halt, that is when they usually assume power.


Just look at South America for example, after example...Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil and Chile.

[Hoyt]

129. The military is solidly behind trump. It's a white wing organization close to NRA in support

of GOPers.

[QuantaviousJackson]

29. Won't Happen

I know we want it to happen, but I don’t see it. There is no substitute for hard work and that is what it will take to beat him. If not, he will be here through 2024.

[Iliyah]

30. The Republican party can

ultimately and strongly advise t-rump to resign. But decency, and the quest for keeping democracy flowing is gone from the GOPs.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

32. Maybe 45 fucked up...

and Putin will lock him up in Siberia somewhere. He talked too much and drew attention to the crime. Putin probably thinks he’s the most stupid leader he ever dealt with. Lock him up, slow poison, whatever. 45 points to Putin and that’s not in Putin’s best interest.

[exboyfil]

34. Putin takes action against Trump

That would be the start of World War III. He is our problem to deal with.

[Squinch]

37. I'm thinking March of next year.

[Dopers_Greed]

38. I bet that indictments for Roger Stone, Don Jr, and Michael Cohen are on the way next

These guys are a bunch of weasels. They've spent their entire lives digging themselves into a legal hole, and Mueller is going to bury them.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

39. I would like to think you're right,

but I'm sadly resigned to his staying in office at least until January 20, 2021. And maybe until January 20, 2025.

Republicans and all of the right-wing billionaires who fund them are delighted because with him they are getting exactly what they want: reversal of laws that protect the environment, of regulations that keep people safe on the job, of any interference whatsoever in their ongoing destruction of public institutions, and so on.

Those who aren't in the upper 1% are completely shocked that all those things Trump promised to do and is now doing, actually hurt them. But over and over we see articles in which they're dismayed by something, but still firmly support him.

[Ilsa]

40. He'll make a deal. Naturally, it won't be a good one,

at least for his kids, and probably not for him. But he might trade away the presidency to keep his and his kids' jail terms short.

[ailsagirl]

44. It would be fantastic if that happened but because of the complicit repukes, it's hard to imagine

What an awful, wild ride it has been

[lame54]

45. A When would be nice

[LuckyCharms]

52. My guess? One of the following:

1) Sometime before 9/1/18

2) one to six months after 11/6/18.

[elmac]

47. I do not think he will be removed

tRump is a fascists wet dream, they will fight every attempt to remove this criminal. If Dems don't take both the House and Senate tRump will definitely stay in office with a very good chance he will be reelected with the same tricks used in 16'.

[onetexan]

55. thats why we need to be ready to take to the streets

when the crap hits the fan

[calimary]

49. I'd rather take them all to prison.

I'd volunteer to drive the police van. I'd do it on my own dime.

[redstateblues]

54. Wishful thinking

[chicago guy]

61. House and Senate

The question is no longer when or hoe Trump will be removed. It is hoe many will be taken down around him? Everyday it looks more like Senators and Congressmen have been aided by the Russians. Muller may have much easier time pick off a few of them. That will than change the game Trump is playing. The problem is how much more can or republic withstand?

[Vinca]

64. While that would be nice, it still won't correct an unjust election.

In a fair world, Hillary would be sworn in. Instead, we'll end up with Trump's loyal pet Mike. Or, if he goes down, Paul "I can't wait to take your healthcare away" Ryan. It's an uncorrectable mess. Lots of damage can still be done between now and 2020.

[Hamlette]

123. Ryan is not running for reelection, he is gone come Jan 2019

[Vinca]

131. I know, but if an impeachment should take place prior to that, he's still in the line of succession.

If he's gone, there's a good chance the ultimate dim bulb, McCarthy, would take his place. He's only beaten for stupidity by Louie Gohmert and he could end up as POTUS.

[USALiberal]

65. Ah, no he will not. No method can explain how it would happen. nt

[sandensea]

67. Could be - but little good would it do us if Dense Pense takes office instead.

Fetus Funeral is just as complicit in Russiagate (through his brother Ed), and even more extreme.

[Texin]

96. You're right, but Pence would have little popularity with 45's cult members.

Pence is weak sauce with those voters that want a blowhard misogynist as their mouthpiece shit-stirrer. The only hope for America and the free world is if Cheetolini dies -- one way or another. The guy is 72 years old and eats shit sandwiches and fries from fast food joints and out of buckets, not to mention the fact that he's walking the WH halls at 3:00 in the morning exercising only his thumbs and foul tongue. If his lifestyle doesn't do him in, it's probably just a matter of time before some other mayhem befalls him.

[Oneironaut]

69. Not a chance until we take back the House and Senate.

Even if collusion were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt with Russia, no Republicans would vote to impeach. Out of the ones that don’t think Putin is a great leader that American presidents should emulate (probably less than half), the rest are partisan hacks. We need a 2/3 majority of Democrats who won’t screw us over. The odds are bleak. Not impossible, but bleak.

[AlexSFCA]

71. wishful thinking

are you seriously comparing trump to nixon? it’s false equivalence. We are dealing not just with trump but putin, trump’s cult - his supporters, likely many compromised congress members that will continue to support trump, etc. Nixon did not face treason charges. CIA folks who have observed regime changes in other countries, have no such illusions.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

81. At the end of the day Nixon resigned because he didn't have the votes to thwart conviction/removal

But I do think there was part of him that was a patriot, that loved his country. Trump couldn't care less what happens to America.

[MrModerate]

83. Hope is a good thing . . .

But it needs to be backed up by solid fact. Whatever Mueller knows, we don't, and there's no surety that Trump will be brought down.

[sellitman]

88. My sympathies

You are going to in for a rude shock when Rosenstein is fired, 45's hand picked man is installed and Mueller gets the axe.

It's happening in slow motion as we speak.

45 will be President as long as Putin wants him too in my opinion.

The days of us having a say is in the rear view mirror.

We have been invaded and only a few here on the left will acknowledge it.

[Saguaro]

91. Too pessimistic

First, there would be serious blowback for removing Mueller. It will be seen as nothing more than obstruction of justice.

Second, the work Mueller has done over the last year doesn't get erased just because he's fired. I'm confident that he's uncovered enough state-level crimes and passed it along to the appropriate authorities. You think Donald Trump's reputation with the states of New York and New Jersey is pure and clean? I'm absolutely sure that someone has enough goods on him to press some serious charges that he can't evade.

[sellitman]

95. I'm a pessimist alright.

He has also turned my liquor store bill into a mortgage payment.

Hope you are the one in the right. I'm just a bit beaten down.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

97. Mueller will be allowed to finish his job and will issue a damning report most Deplorables...

Mueller will be allowed to finish his job and will issue a damning report most Deplorables will ignore. Firing him or Rosenstein will only make martyrs of them and lose votes for the Republicans.

[Saguaro]

103. What the Deplorables think of it is irrelevant.

I think we will see charges akin to those in the most recent indictment, which among others include:

* Conspiracy to Commit Offences Against The United States
* Conspiracy to Launder Money
* The Use of Transferred Money To Commit Crimes Against The United States,

but they will be levied against American citizens instead. And when those Americans include people whose last name is Trump, no one that loves the USA will be able to ignore that.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

108. They aren't Deplorable for nothing.

Deplorables hate liberals, glbtq people, Hispanics, African Americans, and immigrants more than they love America don't you understand .

[Saguaro]

114. "...no one that loves the USA will be able to ignore that."

I wrote that because I understand perfectly who the Deplorables are, and also what kind of influence they will actually have on the consequent legal cat-5 storm to follow such an indictment: NONE. The crimes with which Trump and co. will be charged will be so glaringly obvious that no one will be able to turn a blind eye, and those who do won't matter to the wheels of justice.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

115. What's the mechanism to remove Trump from office ?

Deplorables vote. Deplorables get to serve on juries, get to serve in Congress, et cetera

The best and most realistic way to end this madness is to outvote them and consequently curtail their power. What other mechanism do you see that removes Trump from office ? Mueller has already indicated he's not going to indict Trump and even if he does indict Trump it will likely take the remainder of Trump's term to litigate the indictment and see the process through to a verdict.

[Saguaro]

116. "Mueller has already indicated he's not going to indict Trump"

Source? That sounds like something Rudy Giuliani would say.

What kind of prosecutor worth their salt is going to preemptively say they won't indict someone? If there's an indictable offense -- and I believe there are numerous egregious ones, Federal and State level -- you can be sure Mueller will indict Trump.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

119. Let's stipulate he indicts Trump.

First of all the Special Counsel is answerable to the Attorney General. Since Jeff Sessions recused himself Robert Mueller would have to receive Rod Rosenstein's (the active Attorney General for the Russia investigation) approval to indict Trump. Most of the scholarship suggests impeachment, conviction, and removal from office must precede an indictment of a sitting president :

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-a-president-be-indicted/

but let's stipulate Rod Rosenstein after saying "The Department of Justice has in the past, when the issue arose, has opined that a sitting president cannot be indicted " has a change of heart, agrees to indicting Trump and Trump appeals the indictment. How long will that appeal take ? And what are the chances this Supreme Court rules against Trump ? And if these unlikely events do occur how long will the trial take?

[Saguaro]

121. "And what are the chances this Supreme Court rules against Trump ?"

Take a look at the charges in the recent indictment. They all say "Crimes against the United States". Now let's imagine the newspaper headlines following Mueller's announcement:

"President Trump Indicted for Crimes Against the United States"

You can be sure the evidence will be OVERWHELMING. Do you honestly think the Supreme Court will turn their back on that?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

124. They unblinkingly upheld his Muslim travel ban.

I am not waiting for Deplorables, i.e. Republicans to save me. I plan to use the ballot to remove their hands from the levers of power.

[Saguaro]

125. A travel ban...?

A Muslim travel ban is NOT the same as the President conspiring with Russia against his own country.

Do you actually think these are equivalent? Please.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

127. It was a simultaneous attack on Muslims and the First Amendment

If you believe singling out Muslims for discrimination and undermining the First Amendment, the most important amendment of all, is of no moment there is nothing I can do to disabuse you of that notion.

I'm not waiting for Samuel Alito, Clarence Thomas, Neil Gorsuch, and Brett Kavanaugh et all to save me but please go ahead. I'll rely on the ballot.

Hope in one hand, poo in the other. See which hand gets filled up first.

[area51]

92. Imo, two ways Trump might leave

a) He'll be fired in 2020 by people voting against him; or
b) He has a heart attack or stroke.

[BlueJac]

102. I would hope so but I fear not...

the Cult mentality will continue to follow him off the face of the earth!

[Loge23]

105. 2020 vote or an awakening of the American people...

...are the most likely ways to rid ourselves of this horror.
A health issue is always possible, but that will get us Pence, no bargain there but I do think Pence is not electable in 2020.
Sadly, I don't see any positive outcome from the Mueller investigation - his cultists will simply ignore any finding that implicate the beast. Only a massive uprising of the people - massive, sustained demonstrations in every city - will drive the beast away via resignation, brought on by pressure from his coward republicans.
Then, yet another rebuild will await the Dem who has to clean up the mess - all the while being blamed for the carnage we're charged with cleaning up (see Obama, 2008).
Either way, this is an epic shit stain in American history.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

110. IMHO, the best and realistic scenario

IMHO, the best and realistic scenario is we capture both houses of Congressin 2018 and stymie what's left of his agenda, weaken him and his party for 2020, and take back the presidency.

Lord knows how he will react if we recapture both the Senate and House and ratchet up the pressure.

I'm afraid he's banking on major civil unrest.

[Hamlette]

128. It is possible, loss of both houses will bring some Republicans to there senses.

Like you I don't think impeachment is possible but if we take both houses the GOPers will have no way to get their agenda through; won't head any committees, can't investigate Hillary's emails, no more tax cuts. Just bitching. At that point, some not so crazy Republican Senators might, just might, say its not worth it anymore to have him pissing off the whole world. They hate the tariffs and if they can't get Trump to back down, they might think they will be in the minority for a long time to come. Self interest.

If they come to fear he will lose in 2020 and they might too, who knows. They may become Goldwaters thinking Pence could win in 2020. This could be a whole different conversation a year from now if everything goes our way.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

130. As things get more heated I believe Trump is going to try to create civil unrest.

I hope and pray the left doesn't take the bait. I do hope there are massive peaceful protests akin to the People Power Revolution in the Philippines that brought down Marcos. That was a broad based protest movement with people from every strata of Filipino life. So sad where the Philippines is now but that's grist for another discussion. Liberal democracy is hard.

[elser1939]

126. New To Democratic Underground

I sure hope your are correct!

[Stuart G]

134. Anything is possible...

[ecstatic]

136. I was confident he'd be removed after the taxscam passed.

But then as more time went by, I realized that putin isn't the only one doing the blackmailing.

[oberliner]

142. Republicans will not vote to impeach him

[LuckyCharms]

143. I've said that a few times already.

[oberliner]

144. Yes, I concur

It's unfortunate, but I think important to reiterate that Republicans in Congress are as much the problem as Trump himself.

[Saguaro]

145. If Mueller indicts or even implicates Trump in any way for conspiracy against the US...

... you seriously believe that those in Congress will stand by his side? They're going to go back to their constituents and explain why supporting a President who is actively working against the country's interests is a good thing?

[oberliner]

148. Yes, I think Republicans in Congress will stand by his side

They will have an argument at the ready to explain everything away, and it will be amplified by Sean Hannity and the others.

[Demsrule86]

175. I disagree...they will force a resignation and then try to elect Pence as an incumbent in 2020.

[Hoyt]

152. White wing racists - vast majority of GOPers - will expect nothing less

from the Congressperson they support.

[Saguaro]

156. These people are NOT the vast majority of the country, though.

And I think if the charges are egregious enough, you will see some of the less hard-core Trumpeters start to turn.

[Hoyt]

162. Hope you are right, but they should have turned already, if not before Nov 2016.

[Saguaro]

163. Since there's been no election since Nov 2016...

... maybe they have turned by now. We shall know soon enough.

[Hoyt]

165. Again, hope you are right. But all this crud was quite apparent before November 2016, yet people

still voted for trump.

[yuiyoshida]

146. As soon as possible

and may the FBI take Pence along side.

[bucolic_frolic]

147. Anyone waiting for logic or reason to assert itself

is in for a long ride. Trump is helping the richest people, first, foremost, last, always, and forever. There is no clearer way to remain in power.

So you're thinking karma. That takes time. But its cousin, irony, does happen. The things he intended become the exact opposite. Make America Greatly Awful.

[karin_sj]

149. I think you're right

I just hope it happens before the midterms because who knows what's going to happen with election/vote tampering, voter suppression, social media shenanigans, etc., etc., etc., in November. This idiotic creature and his republican enablers are destroying our country. Each day, I think, "What else can he do?" and each day some new outrage is revealed. Please, let it be over soon.

[Calista241]

151. I'm not so sure.

Based on the indictments we’ve seen so far, no Americans were knowingly involved. They said that explicitly in the indictments.

Which leaves Wikileaks. Did Trump “collude” with them? Do they have a case to be made for being a journalistic organization?

Any impeachment or legal action to remove Trump is going to require rock solid proof. There can’t be innuendo or a wink and a nod. Trump / the Presidency is not a ham sandwich that a prosecutor can just make up a indictment for and then go about their normal business.

[jimlup]

153. I certainly hope so

but let's face it - we have to keep our eye on November 2018. That is the real first chance for a major change in the tide.

[Moral Compass]

154. I hope you're right?

I waver between thinking that he and his enablers will get away with it all.

Then I think that there are still serious people that give a shit in the world and that those people will not rest until these criminals go down.

Which will it be?

I think the former is far more likely than the latter.

What I am convinced of is that the latter must happen for our country as we have known it is finished.

If Trump and his enabler‘s are not brought to justice then that means that we have an explicit two-tiered justice system where the rich and the powerful can essentially get away with anything. While the poor, the middle class, and the utterly destitute will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for even made up charges.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

155. He has a media outlet, SCOTUS, and both houses of congress

...and he has the support of many churches who believe that a man with no proven moral compass whatsoever will end the sexual revolution; put LGBTQ back in the closet; and put women back in kitchens and churches.

The best we can do is get majorities in both houses of congress, put the brakes on his getting anything into law, and get him out in 2020.

There's a very good chance things will get worse before they get better: there's a chance we are about to experience something ranging from an authoritarian republic to straight up fascism; there's a chance WW3 is on the event horizon; there is a really good chance of civil war.

Nothing lasts forever. We have a long (close to 2.5 centuries) tradition of freedom and republican (little r) democracy. I suspect freedom loving people will rise up and fight for their rights.

Also, America has been and will continue to be a flawed nation. Women have only voted for about 100 years. African Americans were denied their vote in spite of their rights. Japanese Americans were thrown in concentration camps in response to Pearl Harbor. We are a big hearted nation of immigrants that has developed an incongruous hatred of refugees.

So short answer: I respectfully disagree. I think we are stuck.

[Bonx]

158. I've been hoarding pallets

[Nevernose]

160. Sadly it would make zero difference in most of our lives

If Martians kidnapped Trump tonight, we’d just have President Pence. He’s a bigoted religious maniac, probably just as stupid as Trump in his own way, and has the exact same agenda that the rest of the Trumpers have: shitting on The Libtards and making this country like it used to be in the good old days (when everyone except male WASPs knew their place).

Trump doesn’t give a shit about anything except other people making him feel good about himself. He has no beliefs. Trump would personally perform an abortion on live television and let undocumented migrants live in the Lincoln Bedroom if he thought it would make people like him more.

Pence is a true believer. That scares me way worse than Trump.

[Drake Notthesinger]

169. And then, there's that Other Possibility

This is America, after all, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Honestly, now, would you?

[Raine]

171. I believe you're absolutely wrong

the only way he's leaving office is if he loses the 2020 election and that is being optimistic, which I'm not.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

180. Now, you're being too pessimistic.

He is definitely the underdog going into 2020.

[Demsrule86]

174. I am so hoping you are correct...I too think he can't survive.

[Mike Nelson]

176. However or whatever...

… happens, we have Trump or Pence until 2020. This makes taking Congress more important than who we get as President. Then, all appointments must be delayed.

[Sunlei]

182. even if the president drops dead today-Republicans will keep the same agenda.

[whathehell]

183. I agree, and don't worry about the wannabe "cynics" here

It's likely a pose they think makes them look "cool".

[usaf-vet]

184. The moment Mueller ties American names (Trump & congressional) players to the 12 Russians it will...

... expand the collusion and obstruction of justice from the Trump "witch hunt" tag to the I don't want to go to jail "lets make a deal".... PLEASE !!.

The Russians could not have pulled off the election tampering with the specificity (targeting of voters) if they didn't have Americans on the ground "painting the target(s)" for the strikes to have the most affect ( i.e. influencing voter).

Once THOSE names start becoming public the focus will change for those who will be named. We will all be asking ..... who knew and when did they know it? When did they know the Russians were working for the republican team OR, in other words, against Clinton candidacy? It's clear purpose was to alter OUR elections.

Why do you think they, republicans, are working so hard to bury the Mueller investigation. They know who they are and they know if their name(s) become public. Life will change at that moment.

I hope the stories from reliable source are true and that Mueller has set in place a "dead man's switch". A plan so even if the republican manage to "kill" the investigation that Mueller has already setup an automatic release, of the evidence gather to date, to individuals and agencies that will make the data public. IMO hopefully one or more of the recipients will be international news sources and historical allies who will disseminate Mueller's findings for the world to see.