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Sun Jul 22, 2018, 06:49 PM

Socialism vs Capitalism? Really?

Last edited Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)

I recommend that we abandon the "socialism vs capitalism" nonsense and call for a "PEOPLE's ECONOMY." It may help unify progressives and centrists.

Deeper still, Democrats should emphasize a "PEOPLE'S INFRASTRUCTURE" of public roads, education and healthcare, etc., to foster a "PEOPLE'S ECONOMY" of small, innovative businesses.

I'll bet five peaches no one here will find this sufficiently pithy to respond to... but I hope one or two thinks about the implications of socially responsible INFRASTRUCTURE as ECONOMICALLY GENERATIVE. It's a nested model of society with a democratically determined infrastructure at the center of a continuously emergent system. Wired Magazine meets The Nation. Biology meets economics.

I'd even hazard to coin a term, DEMOSTRUCTURE, to imply a democratically determined infrastructure.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Socialism vs Capitalism? Really? (Original post)
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 OP
brooklynite Jul 2018 #1
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #10
DFW Jul 2018 #15
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #29
The Genealogist Jul 2018 #2
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #30
Orsino Jul 2018 #32
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #3
shanny Jul 2018 #5
DFW Jul 2018 #19
oberliner Jul 2018 #4
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #6
oberliner Jul 2018 #7
docgee Jul 2018 #8
DFW Jul 2018 #12
docgee Jul 2018 #21
johnp3907 Jul 2018 #9
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #13
scarletwoman Jul 2018 #11
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #16
scarletwoman Jul 2018 #18
TexasTowelie Jul 2018 #20
Wounded Bear Jul 2018 #14
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #17
docgee Jul 2018 #22
brooklynite Jul 2018 #23
bitterross Jul 2018 #25
bitterross Jul 2018 #24
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #26
bitterross Jul 2018 #27
Ron Green Jul 2018 #28
DemocracyMouse Jul 2018 #31

Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 06:58 PM

1. You lost the argument when you used the phrase "People's".

"People's Republic"

"People's Police"

Nothing in the current capitalist system prevents government investment in social and capital goods.

Nothing in your proposed system prevents small, innovative businesses from becoming big ones.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:33 PM

10. You missed the concept

A DEMOSTRUCTURE'S raison d'etre is to foster a system that encourages small business. Do you want to help list the components of a socially responsible demostructure?

NET NEUTRALITY
PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION
PUBLIC HEALTHCARE
PUBLIC EDUCATION
UNION AND WORKER-FRIENDLY REGULATION
TRUST-BUSTING
WOMEN'S, LGBTQ RIGHTS LEGISLATION
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
VOTING RIGHTS
CONSUMER PROTECTIONS FROM BANKS
etc, etc.,

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:43 PM

15. You might want to edit that

Raison d'Ítre is a "reason for being"

Raisin d'Ítre is "grape for being"

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Response to DFW (Reply #15)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:43 AM

29. Grape for being is what I need right now! Political language is stressful!

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:05 PM

2. I think if you use the term "people's" you might as well just call it socialism or communism

A lot of people like the bits of socialism we have now. They just don't like the word.

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Response to The Genealogist (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:46 AM

30. Government of the people, by the people... nothing wrong with "people"

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Response to The Genealogist (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 09:02 AM

32. But Trump gets to refer to "enemy of the people" whenever he likes. I get it. n/t

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:14 PM

3. So all these words, once basic and beautiful, are off limits?

LIBERAL
PEOPLE'S
SOCIALIST

Why not take the language back?

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:21 PM

5. I think you are on the right track

 

and that our country has been on the wrong one for far too long. Obscene income inequality should be proof enough of that for anyone.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #3)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:53 PM

19. You'd have to go back a way

In Germany, where I now live, the eastern part, run by the SED (Socialist Unity Party) trained its People's Police (Volkspolizei) and its Volksarmee (people's army) to kill anyone trying to escape their little "realexisistierender Sozialismus (really esisting socialism)."

The people who lived there didn't find the last two words to be so beautiful, and the eastern European Socialists considered "liberal" to be just as much of a dirty word as today's Republicans do.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:17 PM

4. Power to the people, right on!

 

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Response to oberliner (Reply #4)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:21 PM

6. Thank you, Oberliner!

And I might add, great music program to go with Oberlin's progressive, even experimental politics.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:25 PM

7. It was quite a college experience

 

The music, the politics, the cloudy Ohio skies...

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:28 PM

8. Fear of socialism is how the Nazis came to power.

Looks like the old playbook is back in play.

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Response to docgee (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:40 PM

12. "Socialist" is part of the Nazi party's full name

NSDAP: National Socialist German Workers Party

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Response to DFW (Reply #12)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 08:01 PM

21. Wow. Crack a history book.

The German Workers Party is where the Nazis came from. They gained power by spreading fear of Marxism. They may have had socialist in their name, but the Nazis were as fascist as the come.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:29 PM

9. I'm an unabashed socialist.

And an unabashed Democrat. And Iíll happily work with anyone seeking the same or similar goals, regardless of terminology.

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Response to johnp3907 (Reply #9)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:42 PM

13. Then help with the poetics and the modeling

Do you understand why "socialism" vs "capitalism" sticks mud in any effort towards progress? Many socialists, esp. dem socialists, are entirely supportive of small biz, but the public has no idea because of how the discussion is framed.

Also, the concept of a demostructure which I've proposed, places a democratically controlled infrastructure at the center of a hive of continuously emerging small business activity

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:38 PM

11. While I personally like "People's Economy", etc. I also get the objections to it.

How about we look into using something like "Citizen-Led" and "Citizen-Centered" phrasing instead?

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:45 PM

16. Citizenostructure?

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:48 PM

18. Why not Citizen-Centered infrastructure? nt

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #18)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:58 PM

20. That's too long for a bumper sticker

and too many syllables that will eventually be butchered into a phrase that would be ridiculed.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:43 PM

14. Yeah, we could call the US a People's Democratic Republic...



The RWers steal all the good terms and ruin them.

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Response to Wounded Bear (Reply #14)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 07:46 PM

17. Please re-read my proposal

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 08:04 PM

22. The M$M is now pushing this capitalist-socialist split of the Dem party now.

Are the Russian bots spreading it around also?

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 08:55 PM

23. My wife and I are 1%ers; are we part of the "people"?

Should we leave?

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #23)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 09:35 PM

25. Why are you doing their work for them?

 

The OP didn't say a word to disparage the 1% or suggest they are not part of the "people."

They way I read your post is you've taken offense to the OP for some reason. Also, the way your post is written it is certain to get responses. The issue I have is I the responses it will drive will be infighting and do the work of the right for them.

I don't get why you took offense to the OP in the first place?

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 09:31 PM

24. "People's ...." anything sounds too much like Communism/Socialism.

 

I completely agree we need some re-branding and fast.

Everything I can think of that uses the word "People's..." is socialist or communist. And I'm pretty much of the same age and background as the people in love with Trump and, more importantly, at lot of the independents who lean right. I just got the hell out of the South and got an education and life experience.

These come to mind first:

People's Republic of China
Democratic People's Republic of Korea

Just not a good word to use. I apologize for complaining without making a alternative suggestion. I will work on it.

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Response to bitterross (Reply #24)

Sun Jul 22, 2018, 10:42 PM

26. Good grief.... can we use "citizens' infrastructure"?

... for a citizens' economy?

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Reply #26)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:19 AM

27. I get it. We can be pretty exasperating here.

 

Try not to get to frustrated. We can be frustrating here and beat a lot of dead horses.

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Response to DemocracyMouse (Original post)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 12:58 AM

28. How about a Moral Economy?

Thatís something everyone ought to have.

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Response to Ron Green (Reply #28)

Mon Jul 23, 2018, 01:48 AM

31. Amen to that!

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