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DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 10:19 AM Jul 2018

Conservative professor explains the futility of arguing with Trump-voters:

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/conservative-naval-professor-explains-futility-trying-reach-trump-voters-just-bad-people/

The women, who were immigrants from India and a post-Soviet region, asked to debate Nichols afterward, and asked if he had called them “willfully evil” — and he said they sputtered after he corrected them and said they were “willfully ignorant.”

“Both did the standard Trump thing: talking at me in a fusillade of words punctuated with questions that they would not let me answer,” Nichols said. “This is a compulsion with Trumpers: they must – *must* – constantly explain to you why they *had* to vote for Trump.”

...

Nichols told the woman she was not a reasonable person, and he said their views on Trump were simply not compatible with reality.

...

“These two people will never, ever change their minds,” Nichols said. “They are not accessible to reason. They demand agreement and respect, even when they don’t give it and are themselves unreasonable. This is the cohort that neither the GOP post-Trump nor Dems will ever reach.”

...

“These types of Trumpers are just lost,” he said. “They’re not going to climb down, change their minds, listen to new information. Trump really could shoot them on Fifth Avenue. There’s no point in discussion, because they don’t *discuss*, they *preach*.”

“No rational or fact-based politics will reach these folks,” Nichols added. “I hate to say that, because I believe in the power of reason and facts. But they’re gone. Some of them are nice people, but dumb. Some of them are just bad people. But rationality isn’t going to change much here.”





And that is the real problem for the Republicans. The party has driven their voter-base of the deep end with never-ending hate and propaganda, and now they are wholly unreachable for anybody.
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Conservative professor explains the futility of arguing with Trump-voters: (Original Post) DetlefK Jul 2018 OP
They are just as bad as him. GOTV! dalton99a Jul 2018 #1
624 days since these people "had" to vote for trump Afromania Jul 2018 #2
DECADES of mind screwing people Cosmocat Jul 2018 #3
Yes. On the money. yonder Jul 2018 #14
This also applies to Bible humpers OMGWTF Jul 2018 #4
Authoritarian mindset Duppers Jul 2018 #13
It isn't just with respect to their leaders. They are authoritarian and demand obedience by others. Texin Jul 2018 #24
They are like cult members treestar Jul 2018 #5
It's why I refer to them as Branch Trumpvidians 47of74 Jul 2018 #8
Haha! treestar Jul 2018 #10
Outstanding! H2O Man Jul 2018 #17
+1 dalton99a Jul 2018 #19
Excellent! Poiuyt Jul 2018 #29
True. It's much like cult followers. They choose to ignore facts & truth & reality, for those Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #6
Pretty much pointless in most cases. lpbk2713 Jul 2018 #7
they represent the worst of America AlexSFCA Jul 2018 #9
30+ years of.... mudstump Jul 2018 #11
Deregulation of media enabling extreme RW propaganda is 60-70% responsible. appalachiablue Jul 2018 #27
Sounds alot like the people that supported people like Mao, Stalin and of course Hitler who is cstanleytech Jul 2018 #12
Trump's a conman, they're marks. griloco Jul 2018 #15
If you haven't read Tom Nichols' book - cab67 Jul 2018 #16
That's been on my list for several months, yonder Jul 2018 #23
Just maybe... world wide wally Jul 2018 #18
Tribalism. Whatever my tribe does is ok as long as it hurts the other tribe. jalan48 Jul 2018 #20
Former Republican Presidents say: Marcuse Jul 2018 #21
This is unfortunate but somehow comforting. yonder Jul 2018 #22
They Do Seem Dug In colsohlibgal Jul 2018 #25
Some are Cult 45 members, others just a con's marks. Hassler Jul 2018 #26
the person from india probably supported trump because they hate muslims JI7 Jul 2018 #28
And yet we have folks running around this board posting b.s. polls that nobody ever heard of... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2018 #30

Afromania

(2,767 posts)
2. 624 days since these people "had" to vote for trump
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 10:55 AM
Jul 2018

Some of us have know for exactly that long that those people are unreachable. Others, strung it out as long as they could with puff pieces, calls to reach across the aisle, empathy for those who have no empathy for others. Even though they took the long way around it's good to see we're finally getting there with a proper understanding about the trump voter psyche.

Cosmocat

(14,543 posts)
3. DECADES of mind screwing people
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 11:01 AM
Jul 2018

with Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck - the thousands and thousands of AM radio and book writing profiteers, turning a nice buck spinning right wing lunacy to willing chumps - their brains were completely well before 45 took the whip and gave them what these people, and republican politicians whistled at for over a quarter century.

There is a reason 45 ran as a republican - the key to the con is not the con itself, but the marks. And, he knew he had 10s of millions of people who were already tuned up by the GOP, he just took these people from the party by giving them what they have been whipped into a frenzy to so desperately want.

Side note - 8 years of barking at the moon lunacy over BHO put them over the edge. The disconnect from reality to make him out to be so horrible is in equal proportion to the disconnect to try to rationalize 45.

yonder

(9,631 posts)
14. Yes. On the money.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:27 PM
Jul 2018

"The disconnect from reality to make him (Obama) out to be so horrible is in equal proportion to the disconnect to try to rationalize 45."

It's like squeezing a balloon: It's going to pooch out somewhere else. Until it pops.

Texin

(2,585 posts)
24. It isn't just with respect to their leaders. They are authoritarian and demand obedience by others.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 01:40 PM
Jul 2018

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
6. True. It's much like cult followers. They choose to ignore facts & truth & reality, for those
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:01 PM
Jul 2018

facts, truth, & reality told to them by their leader.

They assume everyone else is lying. Like a cult follower, they have totally lost their independent thinking and ability to filter out obvious lies. They make excuses for some obvious lies, and Trump & others give it to them: He was joking; or that was taken out of context.

Example: Trump did not make fun of a disabled man. When faced with the video...no response, or stating "that's not making fun of anyone. He's moving his hands like that for another reason...to make a point."

If you press them, they'll respond with typical phrases: "You're just a lyin' demotard. Fake news."

lpbk2713

(42,696 posts)
7. Pretty much pointless in most cases.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:04 PM
Jul 2018



I don't even talk politics with many of my family members.
It only elevates blood pressure needlessly.

mudstump

(342 posts)
11. 30+ years of....
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:13 PM
Jul 2018

right-wing propaganda and brainwashing have worked to solidify these followers into loyal soldiers of the right. They are unreachable. It will take years and a massive deprogramming effort to ever turn this around. Democrats should focus on reaching those that can still reason.

cstanleytech

(26,080 posts)
12. Sounds alot like the people that supported people like Mao, Stalin and of course Hitler who is
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:15 PM
Jul 2018

the biggest example.

griloco

(832 posts)
15. Trump's a conman, they're marks.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:33 PM
Jul 2018

We can't out talk him. I tell them to watch the video of him lying and back it up with the depositions. They won't turn until he hurts them in some way and maybe not then as marks still believed in Ponzi even after he was exposed.

Believe me!

Trump's two depositions in Cohen, taken in November 2015 and January 2016.[50] Transcripts of those depositions had already been released, showing "that Trump repeatedly indicated that he had never met instructors at Trump University, despite advertisements for the program indicating that its staff had been handpicked by the real estate mogul."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_University

cab67

(2,962 posts)
16. If you haven't read Tom Nichols' book -
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:39 PM
Jul 2018

The Death of Expertise - I recommend it. It's coming from a conservative angle, but nevertheless makes some legitimate arguments.

yonder

(9,631 posts)
23. That's been on my list for several months,
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 01:17 PM
Jul 2018

since listening to his interview on NPR. I thought he presented himself very well in the interview. Thanks for the conservative angle aspect.

world wide wally

(21,718 posts)
18. Just maybe...
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 12:44 PM
Jul 2018

If we all refuse to discuss politics with them at all, they will STFU and Logic will take hold. It will accomplish just as much as trying to reason with them.

yonder

(9,631 posts)
22. This is unfortunate but somehow comforting.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 01:12 PM
Jul 2018

Because you've been there before and still have hope, you've engaged with a redhat working to find a common thread of humanity through facts or reasonable argument. Their eyes glaze over or they start to do the Gish on you. Voices might rise til once again, you realize it's pointless to go further.

Now, you can take that unfortunate comfort in knowing you are not likely to progress, so why try? It's your choice. Know when to stop. Save some time. You might better advance your argument and have more fun in talking to your dog.

The hope, though beaten down, remains. When to apply it on a facts bereft subject, is a clearer choice.

colsohlibgal

(5,275 posts)
25. They Do Seem Dug In
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 06:51 PM
Jul 2018

Facts should matter but it is labeled as fake news by The Trumpsters and their idiot hero.

Dangerous to be sure, right out of Hitler’s playbook.

Hassler

(3,321 posts)
26. Some are Cult 45 members, others just a con's marks.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 06:53 PM
Jul 2018

Mark Twain: It's easier to con people out of their money than it is to convince them after that they were conned.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
28. the person from india probably supported trump because they hate muslims
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:28 PM
Jul 2018

so instead of just admitting it they come up with other bs to justify it.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
30. And yet we have folks running around this board posting b.s. polls that nobody ever heard of...
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 10:20 PM
Jul 2018

and how Democrats "don't have a message". Whether Democrats have "a message" is beside the point. Nothing can break through the M$M's obsession with all things Trump. It's been that way since the day he announced. He got outsized coverage all during his primary, and it continues right up until today. Every utterance, every tweet, and every falsehood sucks up all the oxygen in the room. So I don't blame Democrats for messaging. We don't own the media.

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