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applegrove

(118,008 posts)
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 03:36 PM Jul 2018

Experts Conclude That Russian Attack Won The Election For Trump

https://www.politicususa.com/2018/07/25/experts-conclude-that-russian-attack-won-the-election-for-trump.html

"SNIP..........

Outside experts have concluded that the Russian attack on the 2016 election did enough damage to swing 80,000 votes in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania, which put Trump in the White House.

In his latest column for The Washington Post, Max Boot wrote:

While the intelligence agencies are silent on the impact of Russia’s attack, outside experts who have examined the Kremlin campaign — which included stealing and sharing Democratic Party emails, spreading propaganda online and hacking state voter rolls — have concluded that it did affect an extremely close election decided by fewer than 80,000 votes in three states. Clint Watts, a former FBI agent, writes in his recent book, “Messing with the Enemy,” that “Russia absolutely influenced the U.S. presidential election,” especially in Michigan and Wisconsin, where Trump’s winning margin was less than 1 percent in each state.

The numbers are staggering. Russian pro-Trump/anti-Clinton propaganda reached 126 million people on Facebook alone, which is roughly the same number as the number of votes cast for Clinton and Trump. Russian bots reached 1.4 million Twitter users with their disinformation, and 39 states had their voting systems hacked in what experts believed what a Russian effort to get data that they could use to target voters in their attack.

..........SNIP"
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Experts Conclude That Russian Attack Won The Election For Trump (Original Post) applegrove Jul 2018 OP
That might leave a mark....nt 2naSalit Jul 2018 #1
And they will get away with it lunamagica Jul 2018 #2
Can we do anything about this? Maraya1969 Jul 2018 #3
We will soon find out. orangecrush Jul 2018 #47
I really don't think so. There's nothing in the Constitution bitterross Jul 2018 #71
There is so much to do with our BlueWave!!!!! We have got to set up more safeguards so this shit Maraya1969 Jul 2018 #73
If the shoe were on the other foot, there would be an armed insurrection. Crunchy Frog Jul 2018 #85
Kick dalton99a Jul 2018 #4
Enough about Hillary not being a strong enough candidate edhopper Jul 2018 #5
+1000 triron Jul 2018 #6
+10000 byronius Jul 2018 #7
+100000 iluvtennis Jul 2018 #20
I've said the Trumpster was illegitimate from the start and . . . peggysue2 Jul 2018 #10
+1000000 pandr32 Jul 2018 #53
I was just thinking.. I don't want to hear Cha Jul 2018 #86
My biggest worry right now is who Russia is going to pick for the House and Senate in 2018. Jim__ Jul 2018 #8
What I've Been Saying PaulX2 Jul 2018 #9
I hear you Paul leftieNanner Jul 2018 #25
Yep! FakeNoose Jul 2018 #42
They don't fucking care thegoose Jul 2018 #59
I've been saying it too. Control-Z Jul 2018 #45
DU was shut down for a long time after the election ProfessorPlum Jul 2018 #88
Except "experts" in OP aren't talking about manipulation of vote totals. Hoyt Jul 2018 #61
I'll bet if Russia hadn't interfered Trump wouldn't have gotten through the primaries. Kablooie Jul 2018 #11
I've thought the very same thing! llmart Jul 2018 #15
A billion dollars worth of free press MsLeopard Jul 2018 #21
Yes, they do, I agree with you. LisaM Jul 2018 #32
We rubber-necked our way into this presidency wonkwest Jul 2018 #37
The MSM didn't learn a thing from their Bush-Gore experience. LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jul 2018 #40
The MSM only care about their ratings! Meadowoak Jul 2018 #44
I said the same thing meow2u3 Jul 2018 #64
THIS! VOX Jul 2018 #67
wouldn't be surprised if they hacked machines in repug primaries as well. nt TheFrenchRazor Jul 2018 #76
The less crazy vote in the primaries was split residentcynic Jul 2018 #82
Now Dems can start saying out loud what we've suspected: Trump is 100% illegitimate. lagomorph777 Jul 2018 #12
Of course the fucking moron will not believe it BigmanPigman Jul 2018 #13
You can see the impact... yallerdawg Jul 2018 #14
The problem with that is the polling data. mythology Jul 2018 #16
Many factors affected the outcome. That doesn't change that if russia had not interfeared, Hillary applegrove Jul 2018 #19
Oh baloney. They had Benghazi, they had Ghadaffi, they had Monica, Weiner, etc etc. ucrdem Jul 2018 #77
Who are the outside experts? Takket Jul 2018 #17
my question as well. mopinko Jul 2018 #91
This was a targeted plan - HRC won popular vote by convincing margin bucolic_frolic Jul 2018 #18
Despite all these shenanigans, the Electoral College still was the actual culprit. Without it... maddiemom Jul 2018 #35
Republicans won't go near the EC, as it's their only path to power. VOX Jul 2018 #69
I think that biggest problem here Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2018 #22
I never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to hear anyone say "she lost" again!! rainin Jul 2018 #23
This is not a legitimate news source oberliner Jul 2018 #24
Well it is quite a paragraph. And it is happening again in the midterms. I want applegrove Jul 2018 #27
Why is it not legit? triron Jul 2018 #33
Putin could not have won the election without a lot of unforced errors, a willing media, and ... Snake Plissken Jul 2018 #26
Oh there were many factors. But russian put Trump over the top. It was applegrove Jul 2018 #28
There is no question that Trump wouldn't had a chance without enemy Russia interference helping him Snake Plissken Jul 2018 #30
Yes. +100. applegrove Jul 2018 #31
WHAT? SergeStorms Jul 2018 #29
Yeah... Captain Stern Jul 2018 #34
Thank you Republicans FakeNoose Jul 2018 #43
The real enemy of the USA is Fox News and Murdochs. These republican propagandists need to be held Pepsidog Jul 2018 #36
Traitor Tot Lost by TEN MILLION Votes OMGWTF Jul 2018 #38
Russia may have influenced third party candidates. applegrove Jul 2018 #41
Voter suppression helped a hell of a lot too rurallib Jul 2018 #39
This Russian effort undoubtedly helped successfully target some for voter suppression bettyellen Jul 2018 #46
Now a warning? Sedona Jul 2018 #48
Who are the "outside experts"? former9thward Jul 2018 #49
Think it is now reasonable to conclude tRump was not legitimately elected. Enoki33 Jul 2018 #50
Yup. SURE WAS A LOT OF "HACKING DEM VOTER DATA" Wwcd Jul 2018 #51
Trump is Putin's puppet Gothmog Jul 2018 #52
Not just criminal and thoroughly nauseating, but illegitimate too msdogi Jul 2018 #54
can we get the nigerian prince who needs help moving his funds Fresh_Start Jul 2018 #55
Traitor🇷🇺Trump is not fit for the office he clearly stole. oasis Jul 2018 #56
+1000 smirkymonkey Jul 2018 #57
So can we finally be done with bashing those on the left around here, now? pecosbob Jul 2018 #58
I've known it with every fiber of my being since the night of November 8, 2016. catbyte Jul 2018 #60
K&R Tarheel_Dem Jul 2018 #62
Yep. As I suspected the night of the election. It didn't make sense otherwise. Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #63
Disagree there was hacking of the actual vote. applegrove Jul 2018 #70
Don't know what you mean by "actual vote." Honeycombe8 Jul 2018 #78
They wouldn't tell us if they were JonLP24 Jul 2018 #79
Electoral college guss Jul 2018 #65
Comey hurt her in the end but i think without the Russian attacks JI7 Jul 2018 #66
Russia made it close enough for Comey to tip it over the edge Awsi Dooger Jul 2018 #72
Trump IS the Russian Candidate. The United States is now occupied by a hostile foreign power. VOX Jul 2018 #68
It reached me through my idiot west Texas nephew mountain grammy Jul 2018 #74
WISCONSIN, MI, MO, PA - all had GOP Senate wins!!! EndGOPPropaganda Jul 2018 #75
Absolutely agree stopwastingmymoney Jul 2018 #81
Essential for GOP power to ignore that EndGOPPropaganda Jul 2018 #89
80k is nothing compared to Crosscheck Crash2Parties Jul 2018 #80
It didn't help, that's for sure. ucrdem Jul 2018 #83
A perfect storm of Russian and Rightwing anti-Hillary propaganda + Comey's FBI investigations andym Jul 2018 #84
republicans let russia steal American democracy Achilleaze Jul 2018 #87
If this is accurate, is there some way we can find the 80,000 people in those three states that hughee99 Jul 2018 #90
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
71. I really don't think so. There's nothing in the Constitution
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 09:46 PM
Jul 2018

I'm not sure anything other than impeachment is an option. There's nothing really in the Constitution to remove him. The electors elected him and the congress certified it. Even if it is proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the voting during election day was rigged the electors votes are the votes that count.

There is no recall provision, no re-do provision. We're stuck with him until impeachment, resignation, new elections, 25th Amendment or death.

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
73. There is so much to do with our BlueWave!!!!! We have got to set up more safeguards so this shit
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 09:53 PM
Jul 2018

doesn't happen ever again. Remember Gore/Bush? And the result of that steal was the Iraq war with well over a million deal including 200,000+ suicides of veterans since they have come home from the war.

Republicans bring about evil. We have to find a way to keep them contained.

edhopper

(33,182 posts)
5. Enough about Hillary not being a strong enough candidate
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:18 PM
Jul 2018

or why people chose Trump. They didn't, he is not legimate.
We ae losing our Democracy with the willing particiption of the GOP, the Press, and anyone who doesn't oppose this imposter.

peggysue2

(10,811 posts)
10. I've said the Trumpster was illegitimate from the start and . . .
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:29 PM
Jul 2018

I think disclosure of that fact is something that terrifies him. Thus, all the nonsense about his massive electoral win and the mantra: no collusion, no collusion, no collusion.

Interesting to note as well: early on Hillary Clinton answered her critics and took responsibility for any and all mistakes made during the campaign. But she said very deliberately:

'That's not why I lost the election.'

She was ridiculed for the comment, of course, accused of sour grapes and typical excuse-making.

She knew.

Cha

(295,899 posts)
86. I was just thinking.. I don't want to hear
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 05:09 AM
Jul 2018

anymore of that shite that Hillary wasn't a good candidate.

That goes for you, too, BS.. this was after the so called "election".. he was out there on cnn Nov 16, 2016 calling us "elite".

Jim__

(14,045 posts)
8. My biggest worry right now is who Russia is going to pick for the House and Senate in 2018.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:27 PM
Jul 2018

Trump is probably making a list as we speak.

Control-Z

(15,681 posts)
45. I've been saying it too.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:41 PM
Jul 2018

But usually as a response not in an OP.

It just pissed me off so much when someone here came back at me with "there's no way to prove it" or "there's no remedy in the Constitution so it doesn't matter".

Responses like that coming from other DUers felt like another betrayal to me. From day one I knew it was a stolen election. I couldn't understand how Democrats weren't screaming it from the rooftops. DUers didn't do it. No one did.

ProfessorPlum

(11,252 posts)
88. DU was shut down for a long time after the election
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 06:54 AM
Jul 2018

Or I think you would have seen quite a few of us screaming about the election being stolen

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
61. Except "experts" in OP aren't talking about manipulation of vote totals.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 07:01 PM
Jul 2018

Russian lies, or GOPer lies, we have to learn to deal with those. But, tampering with vote totals is different.

Kablooie

(18,571 posts)
11. I'll bet if Russia hadn't interfered Trump wouldn't have gotten through the primaries.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:38 PM
Jul 2018

It was Russian misinformation that kept conservative patsys turning towards Trump and swarmed over each scandal with lies as soon as each emerged.

llmart

(15,499 posts)
15. I've thought the very same thing!
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:46 PM
Jul 2018

I couldn't believe he even won the primaries let alone the election. I always figured that big bag of wind was capable of shenanigans. He's always been a blowhard and narcissist and liar.

MsLeopard

(1,265 posts)
21. A billion dollars worth of free press
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:57 PM
Jul 2018

didn’t hurt either. Our mainstream media has a lot to answer for too.

LisaM

(27,758 posts)
32. Yes, they do, I agree with you.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:14 PM
Jul 2018

Not to mention what passed for "debates", both at the primary and general election level.

I've always thought that the media created Trump. We were a divided household during the election (not as far as our political views or ideology, which are progressive). I couldn't stand to watch Trump and my boyfriend was fascinated by him, so we had different TVs on in different rooms. It was bad enough that the media handed him all that airtime; it was worse that it drove ratings.

 

wonkwest

(463 posts)
37. We rubber-necked our way into this presidency
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:21 PM
Jul 2018

Americans love a good car crash. Especially in slow motion.

I think that impulse is what gave us what we now have.

40. The MSM didn't learn a thing from their Bush-Gore experience.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:26 PM
Jul 2018

They decided at the beginning that they would write as many negative stories as possible about Gore, and as many positive stories as possible about Bush. It wasn't an accident -- it was a choice. And it worked. They turned a man who was a highly accomplished person with impeccable integrity into a serial liar, and a man whose first 40 years were so badly spent (drink, possibly drugs, maybe an abortion, desertion from his military service) into a neverending paean of praise.

After the election there was a brief period of introspection by the MSM ("holy shit, what did we do?), but in the end they returned to their habit of following the sparkling item, to turn the serious process of choosing our next president into a horse race concerned only with the polls and not the contents of each man's platform. (At least Trump was honest in one thing: he said he would only appoint justices who would overturn Roe v. Wade, and he's on track to do just that. As someone with a degree in journalism, I was appalled at how Trump's rallies were covered in their entirety, without any real analysis or fact-checking. The Access Hollywood tape alone should have been enough to shoot down Trump's campaign, but the media let it go to pursue the next shiny object.

One good sign is that the press now reports only new stuff Trump says -- like his Orwellian statement to the VFW -- and stopped running live coverage of Trump's events in full.

meow2u3

(24,743 posts)
64. I said the same thing
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:01 PM
Jul 2018

If it weren't for the Russkies, Trump wouldn't have even been nominated, let alone "elected."

residentcynic

(30 posts)
82. The less crazy vote in the primaries was split
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 02:22 AM
Jul 2018

Trump was the clear choice for the bat$hit crazy arm of the GOP. I'd always assumed that was about a third, but it seems that it's closer to a half or more now. Of course, the GOP is not known for morals, so once Trump won the most delegates, the less cray cray bunch jumped on the bandwagon. It worked out for them. They got their tax cut and a conservative SC judge. The only way they'll regret supporting him is if they lose their seats. I've about given up on Mueller. It's all going to depend on getting out the vote.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
12. Now Dems can start saying out loud what we've suspected: Trump is 100% illegitimate.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:40 PM
Jul 2018

Of course, they won't (elected Dems won't) but they have every justification and good reason to do so.

BigmanPigman

(51,430 posts)
13. Of course the fucking moron will not believe it
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:43 PM
Jul 2018

and will him in the attack instead (his usual MO). Best defense is a strong offense.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
14. You can see the impact...
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:44 PM
Jul 2018

in the Democratic primary voting and the 3rd party vote increases in all 3 states compared to previous elections.

The very last polling indicated a recognizable swing in sentiment, particularly after Comey's interference with 11 days to go.

We witnessed a 'perfect storm.'

It should be a wake up call. But as they say, "We get the government we deserve."

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
16. The problem with that is the polling data.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:51 PM
Jul 2018

She was up nationally and in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan by 6 points prior to the second Comey announcement. Her national lead dropped to 3 points in a week. Her overall swing state (more than the three states above) lead dropped to less than 2 points.

If she didn't have the server there's no initial investigation, no letter to Congress just before the election and thus nothing for Chavetz to leak and Comey to announce.

The Russian stuff, not campaigning in swing state, WikiLeaks, the voter suppression, the gerrymandering (in potentially reducing Democratic turnout in gerrymandered Republican districts), none of that had the documentable and quantifiable impact her decision to have a server made. Maybe they had an impact, but you can't provide any real evidence that can be measured.

I know this isn't a popular opinion here, but it has the benefit of being supported by more than maybe.

applegrove

(118,008 posts)
19. Many factors affected the outcome. That doesn't change that if russia had not interfeared, Hillary
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:55 PM
Jul 2018

wins.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
77. Oh baloney. They had Benghazi, they had Ghadaffi, they had Monica, Weiner, etc etc.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 11:44 PM
Jul 2018

They didn't need the silly emails. You think they couldn't have gotten equally good mileage out of the Clinton Foundation for example? Equally squeaky clean and equally trashed by all and I mean ALL.

bucolic_frolic

(42,661 posts)
18. This was a targeted plan - HRC won popular vote by convincing margin
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:53 PM
Jul 2018

and a handful of counties with anomalies just happened to fall for Trump. This is not happenstance, coincidence, or random. This was a targeted play. Trump campaign focused on small county ethnics in Pennsylvania. They used social media mind control to stay close, and focused on counties and Electoral College to put them over the top. Would love to know how much juice was dropped in those counties.

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
35. Despite all these shenanigans, the Electoral College still was the actual culprit. Without it...
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:19 PM
Jul 2018

Hillary would have prevailed regardless of it all, and the Trump campaign/Russians would have had to try harder methods. The Dems learned nothing in 2000. Halfway through to the next presidential election, and no sign of this ridiculous anachronism being addressed.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
69. Republicans won't go near the EC, as it's their only path to power.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:47 PM
Jul 2018

The EC boils our national elections down to a handful of states that can tip things either way. It's always the same players: Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida, Missouri, etc.

With a nationwide popular-vote victory, we'd have had Presidents Gore and Hillary Clinton. Which is why Republicans will NEVER give up the EC.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,353 posts)
22. I think that biggest problem here
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 04:59 PM
Jul 2018

is that, in the absence of outright vote-switching/stuffing, all we're left with is a theoretical likelihood that Russia helped swing the election to Trump. It's difficult to quantify exactly the effect of the Russian propaganda. Of course, the fact that they meddled at all is bad enough and IMHO enough of a reason to call the election into question if not invalidate it entirely but as long as the actual vote count was not tampered with, I don't know what the recourse is, as sour as that seems.

rainin

(3,010 posts)
23. I never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever want to hear anyone say "she lost" again!!
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:00 PM
Jul 2018

She WON!

It is a tragedy that in sports, a first place medal will be taken away and given to a runner up if it's determined that there was cheating. And yet, we have no remedy for stealing the Presidency of the United States.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
24. This is not a legitimate news source
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:02 PM
Jul 2018

They just lift a paragraph from the Washington Post and add a clickbait headline misrepresenting the content.

applegrove

(118,008 posts)
27. Well it is quite a paragraph. And it is happening again in the midterms. I want
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:05 PM
Jul 2018

people to be on the ball.

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
26. Putin could not have won the election without a lot of unforced errors, a willing media, and ...
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:03 PM
Jul 2018

historic levels of complacency

The media was not covering an election, they were manufacturing a horse ran for the sake of ratings, and voter turnout among Democrats was dismal.

And I can't get into the unforced errors because my post will get deleted if I post any of them

applegrove

(118,008 posts)
28. Oh there were many factors. But russian put Trump over the top. It was
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:06 PM
Jul 2018

interfearance on a grand scale.

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
30. There is no question that Trump wouldn't had a chance without enemy Russia interference helping him
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:10 PM
Jul 2018

He is not a legitimate President, and never will be.

But the fact remains, he should not have won, period.

71,242,647 registered voters could not be bothered to vote.

SergeStorms

(18,882 posts)
29. WHAT?
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:09 PM
Jul 2018

We all knew that already. The cult leader and his followers seem to be the only humans alive who can't absorb that fact.

Captain Stern

(2,195 posts)
34. Yeah...
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:16 PM
Jul 2018

The Russians won the election for trump. I think that's true.

But, what they did was trick people (stupid people, and even some not stupid people) into voting for trump. And, it wasn't done lightly...they put a lot of work into it. They sent out some really believable looking, professional-grade lies out, and they targeted the people that their info showed that it would most likely work on.

The bottom line is, the Russians influenced tens of thousands of US Citizens to vote for trump. They didn't steal, or falsify ballots. They didn't 'hack' the vote totals, and change them. What they did was convince a lot of people in our country that trump would make a better President than Clinton would. And, it paid off for them.



Pepsidog

(6,252 posts)
36. The real enemy of the USA is Fox News and Murdochs. These republican propagandists need to be held
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:19 PM
Jul 2018

to account for dividing a nation and turning its citizens against each other purely for profit. We all saw Trump panic when he thought he was slipping with Fox. No Fox hosts with the exception of Shep Smith should live in peace. They should be hounded and harassed at every public appearance whether it be a a local restaurant or public event. Murdochs should receive the same treatment. In the fight to preserve the Republuc, these fear monging, lying pieces of garbage must be called out. Murdoch, not even born in the USA, has made billions destroying and tearing the fabric of our society which was once considered intelligent and progressive. Their support of the fanatics on the right has blurred, confused, and obsfucated the minds of millions of Americans who now consider foreign governments efforts to undermine a presidential election acceptable behavior. The Fox News problem is our biggest problem.

rurallib

(62,342 posts)
39. Voter suppression helped a hell of a lot too
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 05:24 PM
Jul 2018

With something like 100,000 not counted in Detroit and hundreds of thousands knocked from the polls in Wisconsin, especially Milwaukee.

If we ever had an honest election in this country it would be a landslide.

 

Wwcd

(6,288 posts)
51. Yup. SURE WAS A LOT OF "HACKING DEM VOTER DATA"
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 06:15 PM
Jul 2018

Voter data was one damn hot commodity wasn't it!

Votet data was worth multi-millions, if one could get ahold of it.

Hello, TAD DeVine?

msdogi

(430 posts)
54. Not just criminal and thoroughly nauseating, but illegitimate too
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 06:24 PM
Jul 2018

and not just the presidency, Senate and House seats

Fresh_Start

(11,330 posts)
55. can we get the nigerian prince who needs help moving his funds
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 06:30 PM
Jul 2018

to keep trump voters busy for the next 4 months?

catbyte

(34,168 posts)
60. I've known it with every fiber of my being since the night of November 8, 2016.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 06:54 PM
Jul 2018

Something very dark and dangerous happened that day. I've been angry at elections before--2000 is a prime example--but I never felt physically sick to my stomach the way I did when I woke up the morning of the 9th. And the feeling has never really gone away.

I'm terrified by what they are cooking up for the midterms. We need to vote in such numbers that they can't plausibly steal any of these elections. It's going to be an epic battle. The only thing that comes to mind is Tolkien:

[IMG][/IMG]

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
63. Yep. As I suspected the night of the election. It didn't make sense otherwise.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 07:36 PM
Jul 2018

I've said it ever since.

I don't think it was JUST the trolls and the bots. I think it was the hacking, too. Our govt will NEVER admit if the hacking (and it's confirmed there WAS hacking of election systes) - it will never admit that the hacking was successful, even if it can tell. It may not be possible to verify that votes were changed or whatever the hackers did.

Trump is what happens when the people don't get to choose their President. Putin is what happens, too.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
78. Don't know what you mean by "actual vote."
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 12:15 AM
Jul 2018

What we know: the "election systems" and voter registration information in I think 7 states was hacked. The govt has not told us, or they do not know, what exactly was hacked, what was done, what was tried but failed, and the like.

So we don't have evidence right now before us that the election system hacking was successful. Rosenstein said there's no evidence it was or that the election result was affected. As we would expect him, or any govt representative, to say. They are not going to admit, ever, that the result was affected in any way. The reason is that they don't want to admit they failed in protecting our election system, and don't want the public to lose trust in the election system.

So you don't know if the votes were altered, and I don't know.

But on election night, I suspected that had happened, because the result made no sense and didn't jive with the polling data that had been provided the day before the election.

That the result was altered is easily possible, if not probable. That would explain everything, and it fits with the fact that the election systems were hacked and voter registration info was obtained.

All they needed to do was change some votes in a few key but close districts in a couple of states.

I think the result was changed by hacking. The evidence we know of so far supports that. I see nothing at all to indicate that's not true.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
79. They wouldn't tell us if they were
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 12:15 AM
Jul 2018

They didn't even tell us the voting systems were hacked but it doesn't make much sense to do all this hacking just to take a peek.

guss

(239 posts)
65. Electoral college
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:05 PM
Jul 2018

The Electoral College Dropped the ball.
They are suppose to be the last defense against
a elected official who is clearly not Qualified.
I remember one of the Members talking about being on the fence.
to vote against.
They are supposedly a none biased group.
Did Russia influenced them?
Need another investigation into what happened with them.

JI7

(89,172 posts)
66. Comey hurt her in the end but i think without the Russian attacks
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:11 PM
Jul 2018

it would not have hurt as much.

the 2 are almost connected. the Russian attack made Comey's announcement worse.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
72. Russia made it close enough for Comey to tip it over the edge
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 09:51 PM
Jul 2018

That's the version I'll always favor. The collusion was going to narrowly fail minus simpleton James Comey. I suspect Nate Silver would offer the same conclusion, based on articles he wrote a couple of months after election day, blaming Comey.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
68. Trump IS the Russian Candidate. The United States is now occupied by a hostile foreign power.
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 08:39 PM
Jul 2018

That sounds completely insane, but FACTS, FACTS, FACTS.

mountain grammy

(26,568 posts)
74. It reached me through my idiot west Texas nephew
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 09:56 PM
Jul 2018

and another ex friend.. they believed it because they wanted to. You think you know people, then trump comes along..

EndGOPPropaganda

(1,117 posts)
75. WISCONSIN, MI, MO, PA - all had GOP Senate wins!!!
Wed Jul 25, 2018, 11:36 PM
Jul 2018

The Senate majority is illegitimate too.

We must impeach all the trump judges. They are illegitimate.

EndGOPPropaganda

(1,117 posts)
89. Essential for GOP power to ignore that
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 07:52 AM
Jul 2018

If you would write a letter to editor of local paper saying that, Il help edit

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
80. 80k is nothing compared to Crosscheck
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 12:32 AM
Jul 2018

Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: 13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: 85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: 270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: 177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: 589,393

(from https://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/ )

But, that doesn't excuse Russia. They hacked into voter roles, gave the data to Cambridge Analytica who cleaned & correlated it and finally passed it on to Crosscheck and other voter roll purge lists.

andym

(5,441 posts)
84. A perfect storm of Russian and Rightwing anti-Hillary propaganda + Comey's FBI investigations
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 02:29 AM
Jul 2018

especially the last minute investigation/letter which reverberated with the widely disseminated propaganda was too much for Hillary Clinton to overcome. The earlier partisan Congressional investigations focused on Hillary Clinton did not help either, as it enabled the propaganda to find fertile ground in susceptible citizens..

Achilleaze

(15,543 posts)
87. republicans let russia steal American democracy
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 05:54 AM
Jul 2018

so the repubes could have it for a little bit, before the real shitstorm consequences of their treason ruined America for everyone.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
90. If this is accurate, is there some way we can find the 80,000 people in those three states that
Thu Jul 26, 2018, 09:59 AM
Jul 2018

changed their vote based on something they read on social media? We need to make sure these people, the lowest of the low information voters, vote for Dems in November and aren't tricked again.

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