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Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:42 PM

Salon: Democratic moderates fear the socialist left will wreck the party...

Over the past few weeks, ever since Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's startling primary victory over Rep. Joe Crowley, D-N.Y., we’ve seen a remarkable display of intra-party, bad-faith concern trolling — an area where Democrats have set a high standard. Various “mainstream” or “moderate” figures in or around the party are already seeking to pin blame for a hypothetical November defeat, in advance, on the insurgent “socialist” faction associated with Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Bernie Sanders. My daring analysis: This does not bespeak enormous confidence.

<snip>
None of this makes clear why powerful people like Comey and Lieberman are so worried about a small-scale insurrection within the Democratic Party that is nowhere near as "far from the mainstream" as they pretend, and is also a long way from staging a coup and hanging portraits of Trotsky and Che in DNC headquarters. Socialist-dread syndrome also appears to have driven the recent gathering of “moderate” Democrats in Columbus, Ohio, under the aegis of the think tank Third Way, as reported in a widely circulated piece by Alex Seitz-Wald of NBC News (a former Salon staffer).
<snip>
Markell is absolutely right: A debate is overdue. But a debate about what? The problem for Democratic moderates is precisely that they will not define or explain their positions clearly, except in wonky, granular, political-calculus terms, in large part because their ideas are widely discredited and massively unpopular.
<snip>
Attendees at the Third Way conference were clearly aware that middle-path Democrats will need big, new ideas in order to compete successfully with Medicare for all, a $15 minimum wage, debt-free college and the other dangerous pinko proposals that would have had near-unanimous support in the pre-Reagan Democratic Party. Here's what they came up with: A private-sector, employer-funded universal pension plan to supplement Social Security. OK, I'm just spitballing, but that probably isn’t going to suck the wind out of the red sails of Bernie’s fleet and sweep Mitch Landrieu (or whomever) into the White House.
<snip>
Those who shut down such internal conflict and purged the activist left from the Democratic Party, on the premise that it was the only possible way to win elections in a "centrist," anti-ideological nation, have never faced the consequences of their historic blunder. They have lost repeatedly and on a grand scale, insisting every time that they really should have won — or in some other, better world, did win — and that whatever went wrong was somebody else’s fault. They are the ones who appear committed to an inflexible, dogmatic ideology that is out of step with political reality. They are surprised and outraged to learn that if they want to continue their losing streak, they will have to fight for it.


Much more at :
https://www.salon.com/2018/07/28/democratic-moderates-fear-the-socialist-left-will-wreck-the-party-they-want-to-keep-that-gig/

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Reply Salon: Democratic moderates fear the socialist left will wreck the party... (Original post)
Fiendish Thingy Jul 2018 OP
cilla4progress Jul 2018 #1
Autumn Jul 2018 #32
Go Vols Jul 2018 #38
cilla4progress Jul 2018 #40
Autumn Jul 2018 #41
Hortensis Jul 2018 #45
Autumn Jul 2018 #49
Hortensis Jul 2018 #65
Autumn Jul 2018 #71
sheshe2 Jul 2018 #77
betsuni Jul 2018 #78
sheshe2 Jul 2018 #83
Autumn Jul 2018 #82
sheshe2 Jul 2018 #84
Autumn Jul 2018 #85
sheshe2 Jul 2018 #88
Autumn Jul 2018 #89
sheshe2 Jul 2018 #90
bettyellen Jul 2018 #151
Autumn Jul 2018 #154
bettyellen Jul 2018 #156
Autumn Jul 2018 #158
Cha Jul 2018 #61
peggysue2 Jul 2018 #96
Cha Jul 2018 #108
peggysue2 Jul 2018 #112
tomp Jul 2018 #63
Hortensis Jul 2018 #66
tomp Jul 2018 #102
betsuni Jul 2018 #122
Cha Jul 2018 #110
Cha Jul 2018 #109
tomp Jul 2018 #114
Cha Jul 2018 #116
Post removed Jul 2018 #118
Cha Jul 2018 #119
betsuni Jul 2018 #120
NurseJackie Jul 2018 #129
betsuni Jul 2018 #138
Cha Jul 2018 #124
lapucelle Jul 2018 #135
betsuni Jul 2018 #121
heaven05 Jul 2018 #149
George II Jul 2018 #92
Autumn Jul 2018 #130
sheshe2 Jul 2018 #166
Eyeball_Kid Jul 2018 #132
Autumn Jul 2018 #133
heaven05 Jul 2018 #148
Autumn Jul 2018 #153
Cobalt Violet Jul 2018 #127
bettyellen Jul 2018 #157
Cobalt Violet Jul 2018 #162
bettyellen Jul 2018 #164
lancelyons Jul 2018 #2
global1 Jul 2018 #6
Blue_true Jul 2018 #10
elleng Jul 2018 #15
Blue_true Jul 2018 #19
elleng Jul 2018 #20
Hortensis Jul 2018 #75
Fiendish Thingy Jul 2018 #54
Blue_true Jul 2018 #59
Fiendish Thingy Jul 2018 #100
ucrdem Jul 2018 #111
Blue_true Jul 2018 #140
joshcryer Jul 2018 #95
Blue_true Jul 2018 #97
joshcryer Jul 2018 #104
Blue_true Jul 2018 #107
PoliticAverse Jul 2018 #106
dansolo Jul 2018 #123
xmas74 Jul 2018 #150
GaryCnf Jul 2018 #3
Greybnk48 Jul 2018 #4
YOHABLO Jul 2018 #5
tomp Jul 2018 #64
backtoblue Jul 2018 #7
lancelyons Jul 2018 #16
kcr Jul 2018 #18
betsuni Jul 2018 #74
backtoblue Jul 2018 #161
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 2018 #87
Demsrule86 Jul 2018 #8
Eliot Rosewater Jul 2018 #9
Blue_true Jul 2018 #12
BannonsLiver Jul 2018 #27
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dchill Jul 2018 #11
kcr Jul 2018 #13
Proud Liberal Dem Jul 2018 #37
kcr Jul 2018 #39
Efilroft Sul Jul 2018 #86
LineLineLineNew Reply +
struggle4progress Jul 2018 #163
GaryCnf Jul 2018 #14
brush Jul 2018 #31
GaryCnf Jul 2018 #52
brush Jul 2018 #56
GaryCnf Jul 2018 #57
Fiendish Thingy Jul 2018 #58
Squinch Jul 2018 #67
Fiendish Thingy Jul 2018 #99
Squinch Jul 2018 #113
Squinch Jul 2018 #68
Autumn Jul 2018 #79
GaryCnf Jul 2018 #55
gratuitous Jul 2018 #17
eShirl Jul 2018 #21
comradebillyboy Jul 2018 #22
NCTraveler Jul 2018 #23
dugog55 Jul 2018 #24
area51 Jul 2018 #35
betsuni Jul 2018 #73
leftstreet Jul 2018 #94
msongs Jul 2018 #25
MoonRiver Jul 2018 #26
Hortensis Jul 2018 #69
qazplm135 Jul 2018 #28
stonecutter357 Jul 2018 #29
Me. Jul 2018 #30
moriah Jul 2018 #34
yallerdawg Jul 2018 #36
beachbum bob Jul 2018 #42
Dream Girl Jul 2018 #43
kcr Jul 2018 #44
Squinch Jul 2018 #46
onecaliberal Jul 2018 #47
Wwcd Jul 2018 #48
Snotcicles Jul 2018 #50
empedocles Jul 2018 #51
populistdriven Jul 2018 #53
still_one Jul 2018 #60
Post removed Jul 2018 #62
wonkwest Jul 2018 #70
Algernon Moncrieff Jul 2018 #72
LAS14 Jul 2018 #115
RandySF Jul 2018 #76
Cha Jul 2018 #125
Chris Studio Jul 2018 #80
samnsara Jul 2018 #81
hfojvt Jul 2018 #91
WePurrsevere Jul 2018 #93
AlexSFCA Jul 2018 #98
elleng Jul 2018 #101
Glamrock Jul 2018 #103
heaven05 Jul 2018 #134
Glamrock Jul 2018 #136
Glamrock Jul 2018 #137
heaven05 Jul 2018 #139
Glamrock Jul 2018 #141
heaven05 Jul 2018 #142
Glamrock Jul 2018 #143
heaven05 Jul 2018 #144
Glamrock Jul 2018 #145
heaven05 Jul 2018 #146
democratisphere Jul 2018 #105
LAS14 Jul 2018 #117
Bradical79 Jul 2018 #160
Chris Studio Jul 2018 #126
Nevernose Jul 2018 #155
heaven05 Jul 2018 #128
brer cat Jul 2018 #131
poetshepherd Jul 2018 #147
krawhitham Jul 2018 #152
Turbineguy Jul 2018 #159
JustABozoOnThisBus Jul 2018 #165

Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:45 PM

1. THEY NEED TO STOP

GAMING THIS!

Embrace the big tent and be smarter than this.

Listen to Jon Favreau's fabulous podcast analyzing the Dem party - where we've been, are, and are going - "THE WILDERNESS."

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #1)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:46 PM

32. Perhaps the Big Tent should embrace the socialist left ?

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Response to Autumn (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:00 PM

38. +1

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Response to Autumn (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:05 PM

40. 's what I'm

sayin'!

😉

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #40)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:09 PM

41. I find it offensive that Comey and Lieberman are worried about the Dem

party. Republican Comey after his actions should STFU and work on his party. And Lieberman? He should STFU and go away.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:26 PM

45. Autumn, this is the left's version of right wing

propaganda. Democratic socialists are far too few and weak to destroy the party. Their roles have always been to either join with mainstream Democrats to achieve common goals or to act as spoilers for their claimed goals by helping throw power to the Republican Party, now aka the White Nationalist Party.

This time let's make it unity to save what we all value from the growing fascism on the right.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:04 PM

49. I don't consider Comey and Lieberman or their opinions to be

anywhere on the left to have any right put out right wing propaganda about Democratic Socialists. I and every far left person I know has and always will value unity in the party. That doesn't stop the constant trashing of Democratic Socialists or the far left though.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #49)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:28 PM

65. Good. Time to step up and commit to unity.

Look right: There are our common enemies of democracy, socialism, and progressivism.

Trump Seeks End to Pre-existing Condition Mandate

U.S. Democratic Senators. Ron Wyden and Maria Cantwell on Friday warned that President Trump’s Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh could roll back protections for people with preexisting conditions. ... Furthermore, the administration argued in a court brief that the ACA’s protections for preexisting conditions are unconstitutional. The brief was filed in a lawsuit brought by Texas and other Republican-led states that contends that since the Republican tax bill repealed the individual mandate to have insurance, the entire law is unconstitutional.

Wyden warned that if Kavanaugh is confirmed and the court swings to the “far right so far that the Affordable Care Act is struck down from the bench,” this will happen: tax credits to help lower income people pay for their premiums will disappear, causing health care marketplaces to enter a death spiral, while the Medicaid expansion will be “in tatters” and free preventive care a thing of the past.

https://www.bizjournals.com/portland/news/2018/07/27/wyden-cantwell-blast-kavanaugh-nomination-threat.html


Autumn, another biggie on the block is no annual or lifetime limits to coverage. Back to the days of selling everything to pay for care and then dying for lack of care. We need to fight this together.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #65)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 06:26 PM

71. I don't have to commit to what I have always done, that

would be like committing to breathe. I don't trash Democrats or Independents (eg: Bernie Sanders) or his supporters and the same for Hillary or any other Democrat. We really do need to fight this together, it's too bad many don't want to put up with the taint of Sanders supporters in their party because the party needs every body it can get board.
We don't have another election to fix this shit. It's do or fucking die.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #71)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:52 PM

77. "I don't trash Democrats...the same for Hillary"



+40!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #77)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:53 PM

78. ...

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Response to betsuni (Reply #78)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 08:27 PM

83. ...

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #77)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:59 PM

82. Leaving out parts of what I said there?

I don't trash Democrats or Independents (eg: Bernie Sanders) or his supporters and the same for Hillary or any other Democrat.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #82)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 08:38 PM

84. Same thing really.

Besides, everyone knows you are an avid Bernie supporter. Of course you don't trash him or his supporters.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #84)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 08:40 PM

85. No it's not the same thing I said.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #85)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 08:51 PM

88. Please explain the difference.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #88)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 09:01 PM

89. What I posted is still there and readable.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #89)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 09:25 PM

90. I only got 40-50 winks last night.

I need my coffee~





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Response to Autumn (Reply #49)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 05:43 PM

151. HA Goodman, Comey and Lieberman are trying to rile you up and it seems to be working.

 

Last edited Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:39 PM - Edit history (2)

None of them speak for Dems. This is bullshit.

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #151)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:25 PM

154. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not "tiled" up

but some people sure are. What's interesting is that this article makes the same point only Joe Crowley can save us from Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and her modest contingent within the party. As has been pointed out "soon forgotten after Nov 6th". By the way your HA Goodman didn't write the article .

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Response to Autumn (Reply #154)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:41 PM

156. You're super interested in what Comey and Lieberman have to say about Dems and less so in what

 

actual Dems are saying. You seem so concerned about their thoughts- why is that? They don’t speak for Dems- but you’re avidly listening. Strange!

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #156)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 08:18 PM

158. Strange? Whats strange is you are more interested in pretending

that my posting this...
I don't consider Comey and Lieberman or their opinions to be
anywhere on the left to have any right put out right wing propaganda about Democratic Socialists. I and every far left person I know has and always will value unity in the party. That doesn't stop the constant trashing of Democratic Socialists or the far left though.

shows any concern or being super interested in what Comey and Lieberman have to say. You don't know what I think. Are you aware that this is a discussion board... for discussion of things like the OP? If you aren't interested enough to share your own thoughts about what a couple of assholes like Lieberman and Comey have to say try to ignore it instead of attempting to spin what other people say.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 04:05 PM

61. Salon gave HA Goodman a propaganda voice.. what does that

tell us?

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Response to Cha (Reply #61)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 10:50 PM

96. Ah yes, Cha!

HaHa Goodman. Hard to forget.

These articles are getting wearisome. The only division and discord are those hoping and praying for it. The Democratic Party on the other hand is getting ready to sweep in November.

Eyes on the Prize. We vote for all Dems, everywhere. And then, we win and save the f*cking country.

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Response to peggysue2 (Reply #96)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 01:01 AM

108. Yes, Fuck those who push Dems are "terrified" "fear"..

"the same as repubs".. just fuck em'.

We have Elections to WIN!peggysue

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Response to Cha (Reply #108)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 01:45 AM

112. Back at you!

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #45)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:20 PM

63. how about unity under a leftist platform?

 

...let the right wing of the party give some ground for a change.

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Response to tomp (Reply #63)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:48 PM

66. "Immigrant Youth Shelters: "If You're a Predator,

It’s a Gold Mine” https://www.propublica.org/article/immigrant-youth-shelters-sexual-abuse-fights-missing-children

Information is coming out that a 6-year-old kidnapped away from her mother has been sexually abused in one of the detention facilities, but of course we know these children are being badly cared for. Many of the children are still in cages and don't even know where their brothers and sisters are. How many babies and toddlers are tormented with serious diaper rash burns that become even more agonizing with every wetting? Many of the children have been told by cruel, punitive handlers that they'll never see their parents again.

The list of atrocities is far longer than the number of children we have to rescue. To do that, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS TO GET CONTROL OF CONGRESS IN NOVEMBER.

COUNTDOWN TO GETTING THE POWER TO REVERSE THE EVIL: 100 days.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #66)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:32 PM

102. Let me guess...

 

...you purposely posted something completely unrelated to my post.

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Response to tomp (Reply #102)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 08:07 AM

122. ...

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #66)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 01:06 AM

110. The poster only has Insults and he's asking for "unity"..

of course he's NOT serious.

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Response to tomp (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 01:04 AM

109. "..right wing of the party.." All you have

are INSULTS. And, you're asking for "unity".. you're NOT Even serious.

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Response to Cha (Reply #109)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:20 AM

114. So, you're denying that the Democratic party has something....

 

...that could be roughly described as a right and a left wing (and of course some middle ground as well)?

I can see how the right wing of the party would object to being called such, but it's reality. I can see how they would prefer to be called "moderate." But words are funny things because that would leave people to the left of moderate as "immoderate" or "radical" which clearly can have a pejorative implication.

So, to be clear, there is a, objectively, a (right) wing of the party, which has no real problem with the capitalist/imperialist/corporate status quo, or at least don't want to go anywhere else in a hurry, and a (left) wing of the party, which insists sees a complicity of the former with the status quo (which is undeniably fucked up and has been in my lifetime) and is hungry, and frankly impatient for change.

If you don't see this I'd have to say you are naive and uninformed. If you see it but won't say it you're complicit.

So far, in this post and my others on this thread, I don't see the insults you mentioned. Just demonstrable facts. As Truman said, "I don't give 'em hell, I just give 'em the truth, and they think it's hell."

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Response to tomp (Reply #114)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:30 AM

116. Quit insulting our Democratic Party with your

"right wing" buzzword bullshit.

And, don't even be asking for "unity" while pushing your buzzword insults.

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Response to Cha (Reply #116)


Response to Post removed (Reply #118)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:42 AM

119. No, you can see that all you have are Insults.. that's

all you have.

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Response to tomp (Reply #114)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:45 AM

120. "I'd have to say you are naive and uninformed. If you see it but won't say it you're complicit."

Weak. Sad!

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Response to betsuni (Reply #120)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:00 AM

129. "Weak. Sad!" ... and dearly departed.

Weak. Sad!
...and dearly departed.


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Response to NurseJackie (Reply #129)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:47 AM

138. Ah! I am paralyzed with grief.

My sleeves are wet with tears.

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Response to tomp (Reply #114)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 09:13 AM

124. No, you're "funny".. trying to label the worst

possible insults for some imaginary wing of the Democratic Party.

And, no use in quoting Truman.. that doesn't apply here.

Oh, and you're trying to insult me too.. with your "complicit" hogwash. As you can see now.. that doesn't fly.

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Response to tomp (Reply #114)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:38 AM

135. People who don't think some Democrats are "right wing"

are "naive, uninformed, or complicit"?

Someone needs to read the 2016 Democratic Party platform.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.democrats.org/Downloads/2016_DNC_Platform.pdf

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Response to tomp (Reply #63)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:58 AM

121. LOL "the right wing of the party"

Give some ground for a change, "step off, right-wing Dems!!111"

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #45)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 04:46 PM

149. +++ nt

 

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Response to Autumn (Reply #32)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 09:40 PM

92. Perhaps not?

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Response to George II (Reply #92)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:03 AM

130. It's their choice. They will do it or they won't.

For example, it's like family dynamics. If people, family members, aren't welcome or wanted in your family circle do you think they will come when you call just because you need them?

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Response to Autumn (Reply #130)

Mon Jul 30, 2018, 10:25 PM

166. Interesting concept.

Autumn (30,890 posts)

130. It's their choice. They will do it or they won't.

For example, it's like family dynamics. If people, family members, aren't welcome or wanted in your family circle do you think they will come when you call just because you need them?


Yes, I agree. If a 'family member' is blocked due to petty differences and kept there by authoritarian rule, unwelcome it is pure vindictiveness...

Vindictiveness is a strong desire to get back at someone. People who hold grudges and seek revenge are full of vindictiveness. If someone steps on your toe, and you put on boots to stomp back, you're full of vindictiveness. ... At the heart of vindictiveness is the Latin root word vindicta, which means "revenge."

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/vindictiveness



Would they just come back if called? That depends I guess on the level of contriteness the family aggressor/aggressors showed. I for one love my family and we have differences at times, yet our hearts are always open.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #32)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:23 AM

132. Task one: Rid the country of of GOP/Russian

influence.

As Americans, we can sort out the details from there. First, restore and preserve the Constitution and the Rule of Law, and prosecute traitors and Russian sympathizers. We are in an existential crisis RIGHT NOW. Political differences are small potatoes compared to what Trumpy wrought.

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Response to Eyeball_Kid (Reply #132)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:25 AM

133. Take back the Senate and the House and THEN settle the differences?

Works every time.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #32)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 04:46 PM

148. perhaps

 

already embraced as a very minor faction making noise that will be forgotten after Nov. 6th.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #148)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:12 PM

153. Forgotten by some. Not others.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 09:59 AM

127. Fuck the Centrists Thirdway! Their losing streak has to be stopped!

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #127)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:43 PM

157. You go believe what Comey and Lieberman have to say about Dems-that's brilliant!

 

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Response to bettyellen (Reply #157)

Mon Jul 30, 2018, 05:35 AM

162. no i believe what I see with my own eye.

All 3 branches of government lost, lost, lost.

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Response to Cobalt Violet (Reply #162)

Mon Jul 30, 2018, 03:43 PM

164. The article in the OP is RW bullshit designed to divide Dems, but keep falling for it...

 

2016 wasn’t enough for you.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:46 PM

2. Why is wanting affordable healthcare now called the Socialist left?

 

So now the socialist left wants

- Affordable healthcare
- medicare for all (not free)
- gun control assault weapons ban
- clean campaign finance
- support seniors, support lgbtq
- mobilizing against climate change
- affordable college
- jobs that pay a living wage
- gender equality.

Why is this now considered the socialist left.

This just seems to be regular democratic ideas.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:50 PM

6. Don't Get Sucked In By This Dem Socialist Baiting....

The bots are out trying to divide the Party. Don't fall for it.

We need to be focused on getting the Dems to take over the House and the Senate in November. We can't be detracted by any inner Party bickering now.

Once we take over the House and Senate they can negotiate positions within the Party - but now we need to be focused. GOTV!!!!! Take back control of our government!!!!! TABA!!!! Take America Back Again.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #2)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:00 PM

10. Ignore the labels. Everyone want the same thing, the only difference is pace of getting it.

I have never, ever found any logic in bashing anyone that agrees with me on 80% of stuff and is cordial on the 20% where we disagree. I don't like when I am attacked on the 20% where we disagree.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:10 PM

15. I agree, but sadly it happens here often.

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Response to elleng (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:16 PM

19. We are facing a very real threat to democracy. We had better figure it out.

If democrats don't take the House and at least tie up the Senate, there is nothing to stop Trump for at least 2 years. The damage that he can do over that time is enormous.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #19)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:18 PM

20. Yes, absolutely,

so the naysayers around here really should figure it out and stfu!

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Response to elleng (Reply #20)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:41 PM

75. Elizabeth Warren: Trump Supreme Court Nominee



MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle?

TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.

MATTHEWS: For the woman.

TRUMP: Yeah, there has to be some form.

MATTHEWS: Ten cents? Ten years? What?

TRUMP: I don’t know. That I don’t know. That I don’t know.

https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2016/mar/30/context-transcript-donald-trump-punishing-women-ab/


The religious right knows.

Pre-Roe abortion bans are still law in 15 states. Laws enabling prosecution for abortion are now on the books in over half the states. If a conservative majority on the Supreme Court reverses or weakens Roe, it’s easy to see what happens next.

A federal ban on abortion after 20 weeks has already passed the House of Representatives. ... In the more than 40 years since Roe v. Wade, the antiabortion movement has been busily laying the groundwork for fetal personhood.

(Me: The charge for taking a misoprostol pill would be murder.)

Some states already punish women for trying to end their pregnancies. ... 17 women are known to have been arrested since 2005 after being accused of self-inducing abortions. “The danger of people being arrested, being jailed, being separated from their families, being potentially detained and deported,” says Jill Adams, executive director of the center, “these are the real dangers of self-induced abortion in 2017.”

Just ask Purvi Patel ... in 2013. Yet she was convicted of feticide and neglecting a dependent, and was given a 20-year prison sentence. Her sentence was reduced on appeal, and she went free last September after 525 days. ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/04/28/if-abortions-become-illegal-heres-how-the-government-will-prosecute-women-who-have-them/?utm_term=.d34d92e3ac72


COUNTDOWN TO MIDTERMS: 100 days.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:17 PM

54. What Do We Want? The same Progressive things! When Do We Want It?

Er, at some undetermined point in the future that's safely inoffensive to the mythological moderate voter, and more importantly, our corporate donors...but rest assured, we really want it!

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #54)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:32 PM

59. All the social and economic progress of the last 86 years have come from democrats.

Exactly what has the mindset you cheer on accomplished? Exactly what, if anything at all?

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #59)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:17 PM

100. LBJ decided the time for the Civil Rights Act was NOW

He decided the time for Medicare was NOW.

He had been president for a little more than a year.

He twisted congressional arms to the breaking point, and made other deals to get the bills passed. He didn't agree to some "incremental measures" after a decade of study by a committee somewhere.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #100)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 01:29 AM

111. It was actually JFK who sent the 1964 Civil Rights Act legislation to Congress:

"The Report to the American People on Civil Rights was a speech on civil rights, delivered on radio and television by United States President John F. Kennedy from the Oval Office on June 11, 1963 in which he proposed legislation that would later become the Civil Rights Act of 1964"

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #100)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 11:00 AM

140. Kennedy sent all that up.

And it was all stalled on Congress when he was killed. LBJ was a master manipulator, I would not put it past him to use the fresh memory of Kennedy's death to bash some hesitant Congresspeople into yes votes.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #10)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 10:44 PM

95. I don't like being attacked for merely disagreeing on practical matters.

When I agree 100% on ideological grounds.

For instance, on practical terms, you are not electing a pro-choice governor of Louisiana. It is not my fault. It is because the people of Louisiana are very pro-life / anti-choice. John Bel Edwards won in Louisiana and signed in the most restrictive abortion law of any state. He would be completely vilified by the "socialist left" or as I call them the "purist left."

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #95)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:01 PM

97. Edwards appears to be doing a decent job overall.

I feel that for politics in really conservative areas, we elect a democrat and have his or her administration perform well, that sets us up to elect a more progressive democrat as a replacement.

When we lurch to far left, we suffer setbacks that take years or luck to reverse. California is a case in point. In the seventies, California was headed toward becoming a democratic stronghold, then democrats there swung far leftward and California got a succession of republican governors and democrats did not win the number of House seats they should have. Then the republican governor Pete Wilson went of on his anti immigrant effort and the luck democrats needed happened there. There was a setback with Gray Davis, but the die was cast, California had started a sustained march toward being heavily blue. If Newsom wins as expected and does an excellent job, republicans there are likely finished as a party.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #97)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:40 PM

104. He literally saved lives the day he took office.

By signing in medicaid expansion as one of his first acts as governor.

But he saved tens of thousands of lives by signing in medicaid expansion. And gave almost 20k people a new job be expanding medicaid in the state.

He probably hurt some people who couldn't get abortions past 15 weeks. And that fucking sucks.

But what can I do about that? Call him a POS, demand he be primaried by someone "more progressive" and such?

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #104)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 12:18 AM

107. Maybe change the legislature so that it's less conservative.

Growth causes regions to become less conservative. Maybe you and friends can crowd source progressive people that have good business ideas and a will to treat employees fairly - you get enough of those going and they give back, everyone is helped and the region becomes less red.

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Response to Blue_true (Reply #10)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 12:12 AM

106. Yeah some people want it to happen after they no longer have to run for reelection. n/t

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 08:22 AM

123. Are you claiming that the Democratic party doesn't support most if not all of these issues?

This is the problem that I have with the Socialist left. You claim that Democrats don't support these things. We do. I just want people who come up with concrete plans to implement these things, not just slogans. There also needs to be a recognition of the very real roadblocks that will prevent getting these things accomplished.

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Response to dansolo (Reply #123)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 05:24 PM

150. Thank you!

I don't want slogans. I want effective plans that have specific timeframes of implementation. I want to know who is in charge of implementation and how it will roll out. I want a dollar price on it and how it will be funded. I want, on most, gradual rollouts over a few years for ease of said implementation . And I want contingency plans in case we hit a roadblock.

I see it as being rational.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:48 PM

3. K&R

 

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:49 PM

4. Such election year bullshit. Just ignore it. I do. n/t

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:49 PM

5. It's a fight that's going to be had. But not now, not at this time in history. Let's stay together.

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Response to YOHABLO (Reply #5)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:25 PM

64. every single time since 1972 I have voted straight democratic.

 

and every single time I have had to hold my nose as I am always miles to the left of the eventual candidate. The discussion has been going on for a long time and nothing has changed. If you want unity get the right wing of the party to concede to the left for a change.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:59 PM

7. Please let's not play this game

Right now is the worst time to play the game internal factions. We are all in solidarity against the republicans' evil agenda.

Stronger Together.

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Response to backtoblue (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:10 PM

16. I think its NOT enough to ignore these. I think you have to try to correct the misinformation.

 

I think its NOT enough to ignore these. I think you have to try to correct the misinformation.

I am just one person but I will frequently have debates about this with people trying to push this idea.

If they can put MISINFORMATION out there.. then we can put FACTUAL INFORMATION out there.

Fight back. post some facts out there that contradict the misinformation.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:13 PM

18. I agree.

Fight back. It's like any other disinformation campaign. They think repeating the lies works. You can't ignore that.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #16)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:26 PM

74. Thank you! We must all correct the misinformation with facts.

It's annoying but it must be done.

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Response to lancelyons (Reply #16)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 09:00 PM

161. Thanks for your response

Propaganda is being pumped up to create chaos within our party. The article is a total farse trying to alienate and push us apart. Team Blue is big enough for us all.

The psyops on the US citizens continues to play on emotions and pit us against one another. I see your point about getting the correct information out there. I think we're on the same page.

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Response to backtoblue (Reply #7)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 08:47 PM

87. Stronger Together is fine, but we have primaries for a reason

Voter ideas change, and some incumbents become deadwood after a while. Also, these fights sharpen the winners for their fight with the GOP. It's a healthy part of the election cycle, but it's uncomfortableat times.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 12:59 PM

8. No matter how good this Democrat is ...there is not a chance in hell to elect him in Michigan...

I say that with great sadness.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:00 PM

9. Stop promoting division of the party, right here on this thread you can see

written in Russia talking points.

Whether those posting them know it or not, I dont care.

People better fucking figure out what is happening and quickly.

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:08 PM

12. I just do not look forward to 2020.

I see a repeat of 2016. Some people seemed to have learned NOTHING!!!!!

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #9)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:36 PM

27. +1

Hit and run OP sourced by a virulently anti Democratic Party publication. Salon paid HA Goodman’s bills for a long time.

The intent is pretty obvious IMO.

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Response to BannonsLiver (Reply #27)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:48 PM

33. I have researched stuff here lately and what is going on is so obvious but ofcourse

mums the fucking word, I dont dare say something positive about the Democratic Party or Hillary Clinton.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:01 PM

11. I'm pretty sure they have way bigger things to worry about.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:08 PM

13. Who knew Comey and Lieberman were the voices of the Democratic party?

Those two come up again and again as evidence of Dems in Disarray! Good old Salon, home of HaHa Goodman.

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Response to kcr (Reply #13)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:58 PM

37. When did Comey become a Dem?

And Lieberman jumped ship a long time ago too

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #37)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:04 PM

39. Really. It is beyond ludicrous to count him as a Dem.

I never got jumping in on the Comey bandwagon, even if he did manage to do something helpful regarding Trump. Comey is a self-serving snake. He really has a shit-ton of nerve even weighing in on this.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #37)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 08:44 PM

86. Seriously, fuck Lieberman with a barbed wire-wrapped baseball bat.

He should have no say in party matters after his cozying up with the neocons and running against Ned Lamont in the previous decade.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #37)

Mon Jul 30, 2018, 06:45 AM

163. +

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:08 PM

14. And the hand wringing begins

 

After two years, fuck, after 18 years, of blaming the left for the utter failure of the centrist politics of triangulation, of trying to exorcise leftsts from every level of the party, it's suddenly divisive to talk about which direction we need to be headed?

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #14)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:45 PM

31. FYI: The only direction we should be heading right now is getting out...

the vote in Nov. to take back at least the House or trump and the repugs will continue their turning over of the country to Putin.

Let me be clear. The election is only 3 months away.

Priorities, people.

We can hash out the leftists v the centrists once we are in charge of the House.

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Response to brush (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:14 PM

52. I'll tell you what

 

I haven't hit the "view all" link yet. I just read your reply from my My Posts tab.

If you've posted this "lesson" in reply to the what I will bet are 30 or so posts about Russian bots, or Bernie, or whomever is the leftist villain du jour dividing the party, I'll do the same for the posts calling out only centrists.

Because, at the end of the day, nothing matters more than winning.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #52)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:23 PM

56. We are in agreement. We must win at least the House or the country is over.

If not the repugs will have full license to continue kowtowing to the Russians—like those a-hole repugs who went hat-in-hand to Moscow recently, not to mention trump's disgraceful performance in Helsinki.

Right now we should all be on the side of getting Democrats in office, not siding with leftist, centrists, progressives or whatever—Democrats.

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Response to brush (Reply #56)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:28 PM

57. YES n/t

 

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #52)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:29 PM

58. I strongly disagree- winning is essential, but there's lots more important than winning

Like what you do with the power once you've won it- squander it on safe half measures and token gestures, or wield that power in a manner that is unhesitatant and unyielding.

We know how Republicans wield their power once they've won; Democrats need to find the courage to both campaign and govern with the same fervor and tenacity. (I know, some already do, but the party would benefit, not suffer, from the debate the article advocates)

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #58)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:50 PM

67. You say winning the House back doesn't matter as much

as people wielding power in the style YOU like it wielded.

That's just insane.

So if we get a congress that passes what you are deeming to be half measures, you would rather we not win?

That's insane too.

All that matters is that Democrats win. NOTHING matters more. Anyone who says different is either being dishonest about who they are, or they have no clue what is going on.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #67)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:13 PM

99. Don't put words in my mouth, OK?

I said winning the house was essential, as in required, necessary, etc.

And I also expressed the opinion that how Democrats wielded their power once they have won was of more importance to me, of more value, than merely winning. They are not mutually exclusive beliefs.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Reply #99)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 06:37 AM

113. Nothing is more important than winning the House back. Nothing.

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Response to GaryCnf (Reply #52)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 05:56 PM

68. Except those posts you are so sure are there aren't there.

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Response to Squinch (Reply #68)


Response to brush (Reply #31)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:18 PM

55. Oh dear

 

and I was so looking forward to it.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:12 PM

17. The moderate Democrats in this article are Comey and Lieberman?

I'll take my chances with alienating those two.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:18 PM

21. big tent

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:19 PM

22. More divisive rubbish from Salon the home of H A Goodman

Salon wants to continue it's divisiveness from 2016. They are one of the worst purveyors of the Democrats in disarray narrative. They pretend to be progressive but look at the kinds of Russian disinformation these people have been pushing for the last two and a half years.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:20 PM

23. Socialist left. That's funny. Nt

 

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:24 PM

24. Socialist Left?

Last edited Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

There is no Socialist Left, only real Democrats. The average Democrat in office now would have been a Moderate Republican 40 years ago. Big money in politics polluted our Government. The Repubs went first in the '80's under Reagan when he decided that Corporate bottom lines and Military spending were the only important issues. Money from lobbyists flowed in and the Conservatives stood with their hands open.

The Conservative think tanks, the Christian Right, and the NRA joined in pushing the notion that the media was liberal. It was not, until the 80's most media was fairly unbiased. Media companies began expressing more Conservative viewpoints to balance out the the already balanced narrative, which was then tipped strongly Conservative. When AM radio started losing programming, Right Wing shock jocks stepped in and spewed their hatred of the left, further poisoning the well for Liberals.

Look how radical the Republicans have become, the Tea Party is so far Right they are impossible to compromise with. The Cons are weaponizing Christianity into legislation. One woman on Trump's short list for SCOTUS said the Bible over ruled the Constitution. Really, a Theocracy?

According to most polls, this Country still embraces progressive policies by a wide margin. Medicare, medicaid, Social Security, food stamps etc..., then why are the Dems who support such programs demonized as the far Left? These are all items that any civilized Country would want and should have. Any Democrat that does NOT forcefully and vocally support these ideals and policies should step aside and let true Dems take their place.

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Response to dugog55 (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:50 PM

35. +1 n/t

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Response to dugog55 (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:21 PM

73. And there it is, the talking point: "Medicare, medicaid, Social Security, food stamps etc ...,

then why are the Dems who support such programs demonized as the far Left?" Repeating the propaganda that Democrats aren't progressives and don't want universal health care, higher wages, Social Security, etc. (all the things the Democratic Party has accomplished) and must step aside and let the TRUE PROGRESSIVES take over #WalkAway.

It won't work.

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Response to dugog55 (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 10:22 PM

94. +1

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:33 PM

25. IMO its more about branding and name identity than any real political views

the democratic socialist name is being promoted as identity politics to support one politician who is not a real democrat but tries to take advantage of people who think he/she is. It is marketing

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:36 PM

26. There are currently fewer of those "socialist" Democrats than you can count on one hand.

A whole of a lot more teabags are destroying the Repuke Party right now. No worries, IMHO.

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Response to MoonRiver (Reply #26)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 06:00 PM

69. Exactly to the relative numbers.

Mercifully. Our nation would have fallen to extremists long ago if they could unite to form a majority.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:37 PM

28. Comey and Lieberman are democrats?

 

Who knew?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:40 PM

29. FAIL !

trashing this thread .

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:42 PM

30. Ah Yes...Salon

I see they're still on a mission, did a good job of trying to divide the party during the primaries. H.A. Goodman still around?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:50 PM

34. Thank you, Salon, for your "concerns". We'll do just fine.

Addressed obviously to the article writer, though whether this divisive shit belongs on DU except to mock is another question.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 01:54 PM

36. Al Davis of the Oakland Raiders made it all so simple for Democrats:

"Just win, baby!"

Whoever you are, wherever you are, whatever they are - "Just win, baby!"

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:11 PM

42. The other side of the coin the socialist left must work with the rest of us

 

Unless they don't give a damn.

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #42)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:19 PM

43. This! I fear this is 'q6 redux.

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #42)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:24 PM

44. That's what is sad about all this. They easily could, especially now.

They talk about how popular their platforms are and it's true. Because the Democratic Party is a coalition and so much of it has already been adopted, long ago. There is no need for their divisive insistence on fighting the party from the outside. It persists because of the old, outdated theory that it's the only way to move the party. It seems that those who believe it are the ones running their show. It's too bad.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 02:57 PM

46. What a fucking stupid article. You're not really buying this shit, are you? Tell me you're not.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:00 PM

47. This is bullshit. STOP IT. A fucking Russian spy is in the White House. Damit.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:01 PM

48. Question: Is H.A. Goodman a Socialist?

 

After this Salon read, I have to ask.

Maybe someone can clear this up.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:05 PM

50. I think this is a good article on the subject. link

 

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:12 PM

51. I don't know about 'wrecking the party'

but increasing the odds of losing in November, is pretty much a certainty. Note, specifically speaking to the odds [ and potential mandate if dems win anyway].

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:15 PM

53. Requiring Automobile Insurance is Capitalized Socialism!

OMG

maybe Lieberman doesn't drive

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 03:48 PM

60. This is why I stopped reading Salon. They go out of their way to push Demand critic division theme,

and have been doing it for some time

Just like The Hill and Politico

I have better things to do with my time

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)


Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 06:14 PM

70. We need to be together now

 

We can hash this out after November.

After November.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 06:29 PM

72. I'll go with Valerie Jarrett on this...




My opinion: Let's have robust primaries and let the voters decide who to put up in November. It is a big tent.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #72)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:30 AM

115. Well said, Valerie! And Algernon!

I find my own views have gently slid leftward over the years. Presumably I represent a generation that's supposed to be stuck in its ways. Yet I find the vocal left stimulating and refreshing. Possibly I'm more representative than odd?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:51 PM

76. They may very well wreck Michigan for the next eight years

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Response to RandySF (Reply #76)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 09:20 AM

125. They better the hell NOT.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:56 PM

80. As a rule

 

When you see Americans use the word socialist, they usually can't define it.

Heck lots of Americans that support it can't define it.

Too much cold war hang over, not enough information.

And I don't say that as an advocate of socialism, but of knowledge and intelligent conversation.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 07:58 PM

81. just use the word 'progressive' instead of 'socialist'....

..sometimes the signage is all wrong...

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 09:30 PM

91. I agree with that

it was one of the reasons I opposed Bernie, even though I never liked Hillary.

But socialists are okay in some districts/states.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 09:49 PM

93. Why on earth should we give darn what Comey or Lieberman...

think? They're not "Democratic moderates". Heck, last I knew Comey was still a Republican and Lieberman had switched from being a D to an R. If they want a say, they should work on getting semi sane people back in charge of their own damn party.

The Democratic Party needs to let registered Democrats vote on and control the direction of the Democratic party not Republicans.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:09 PM

98. too late to contain now, might as well embrace

the reality is that vast majority of dems and many independents do support the proposals of universal healthcare, education, min wage, etc. They just don’t like the label socialist. Bernie did a disservice to our party by making it harder than it should be for all of us. The term social capitalism would sell like hotcakes, woulnt surprise me if gop adopts it in the future, instead we’re stuck with socialism.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:27 PM

101. Concerned about Lieberman's thoughts?

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:39 PM

103. Bernie Supporter here.

Consider myself more European socialist then American capitalist. I voted for Hillary and will continue to vote Democratic party as I have since I became politically aware. Enough of this divisive bullshit. GOTV!

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Response to Glamrock (Reply #103)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:28 AM

134. Tell that to the minor faction

 

and leader of that minor faction within our Party causing the "divisive bullshit"! Yeah priority one, GOTV. Not fight over who wants to RULE our Party with outdated by 50 or so years, ideologies. Very outdated and unworkable in American society. The sooner this is understood, then the faster we can get to priority 1, GOTV.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #134)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:40 AM

136. I think I just did.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #134)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:43 AM

137. Although, I must admit

I don't know what 50+ year old ideologies you are speaking too.

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Response to Glamrock (Reply #137)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:54 AM

139. I do

 

I dealt with socialist-democrat's ideological differences to a liberal Democrat such as I, in college, 50 years ago. Didn't work then, doesn't work now. So, it's possible the dressed up old ideology presented as the fresh and new ideology as something new, maybe you don't know. Non-bernie supporter here.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #139)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 11:02 AM

141. heaven.

Could you give me some specifics please? And just so you know, I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I'll be 47 on Friday so I hope you'll pardon my ignorance about intra-party battles in the 60's.

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Response to Glamrock (Reply #141)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 12:25 PM

142. okay

 

first and you probably know this already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
second: one of bernies ideological mentors...https://duckduckgo.com/?q=eugene+debs+socialist&t=ffnt&ia=web
third: a personal note https://www.facebook.com/YDSABU/still there and in my day had a strong racist strain like those in the meeting did not like my colour, exactly as I found in the bernie organizing group here locally during the 2016 primary season in my town. Of course, I was, as usual, the only chocolate chip in a sea of white chocolate along with a couple of POC identifying with the majority members that had shown up. I cursed Bernie and his people from that day on and started researching his background. Not many people knew I flirted with this ideology. AOC is finally a winner and she is from BU socialist group, I guess. That's progress? Right. But then againI visited their group, 1970, and I was NOT readily accepted

https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2018/04/11/black-political-power-means-zilch-n2469116

this article is typical of the democratic-socialist ideology that will not acknowledge or try to change anything about the systemic institutional racism that PREVENTS the AA, in any great threatening numbers, from "positioning themselves to take advantage of opportunities" that white people take advantage of and feel entitled too by the privilege of white skin coloring. And always have counselled AA on getting rid of the negative attitude, anger and resentment against a system of institutional and systemic racism ALWAYS being used against ALL AA only because of skin colour and the threat white people feel immediately upon seeing it. Democratic-socialist believe this most readily.

And today, 2018 the very same racism is at work. It is still true, even for a President Obama, that to achieve what is taken for granted by those who enjoy WHITE PRIVILEGE AND ENTITLEMENT. The struggles to take advantage of the benefits of this society as enjoyed by those mentioned in the article above, to be included into ameriKKKan society and who faced obstruction, if they chose to, had only to climb over a mound of dirt vs the two mountains an AA must overcome to get the same benefits enjoyed by those obstructed European people(s). It's always been easy for white people, even today, to say, "if only you black people would work harder, you can achieve what I have". Yeah tell that to someone who worked extremely hard climbing those three mountains only to find, after achieving, they are still hated for their colour, not their achievements or character.

Anyone remember FLOTUS Michelle Obama being called an ape-monkey? I will always remember the repthugliKKKan snake calling the President, out loud, a liar during his first SOU speech. Nothing like that heard in my lifetime against a white POTUS? Anyone remember repthugliKKKans leaking to MSM where Sasha and Malia were on vacation? With the two drunk and wild bush first-daughters, the media always had to dig for that type information.

White skin has always melted into the pot seamlessly with very little problem. They would finally overcome the prejudice, intra-racial and cultural. While the interracial racism practised by them and all white skinned ameriKKKans against the ex-slave, is not, to this day, addressed. Whitesplaining democratic-socialists who always point to the European who faced prejudice and overcame ALWAYS asks why can't you black people overcome? I ask you to answer that. Democratic-socialism likes the colour-blind approach, yet is very colour conscious in my experience. Have a good one.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #142)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 02:06 PM

143. Thanks.

Although I meant specific policies, I see now what you were speaking about. Thanks for taking the time.

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Response to Glamrock (Reply #143)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 02:55 PM

144. If you want policies

 

bring up, Eugene Debs in a search engine. BS has formulated the same policies as Deb's just dressed as new. Bernie Sanders is a Socialist dressed as an Independent. We have to work within our Party to strengthen it where flawed, not destroy trust in it with lies like the 1% lie of BS and AOC. Nah.....want nothing to do with Deb's/BS/AOC/Sarandon/Stein/policies.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #144)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 03:00 PM

145. That's where we will have to agree to disagree.

I'm all for single payer healthcare, tuition free college, much higher taxes on the wealthy, robust infrastructure spending, etc.

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Response to Glamrock (Reply #145)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 03:17 PM

146. no problem

 

Last edited Sun Jul 29, 2018, 04:44 PM - Edit history (1)

I just don't trust BS outside of those policies you mention, I've always voted for Democrats because they have fought for what BS has usurped as policies and have fought for total inclusion and equality of all races, cultures, something a socialist does NOT address. Making more money, having healthcare does not stop racial division or white racism. Racism out here is a serious problem. Being able to attend tuition-free college does not stop racism. Making the rich pay more taxes does not stop a MAJOR ameriKKKan problem, racism. Trust him as far as I can throw my 65-pound dog. GOTV for the Democrats, not factions within our Party that are not Democrats. Democratic Party has always fought for those policies usurped by BS as his policies. The 1% lie by him about our Party is unconscionable. That's divisive.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sat Jul 28, 2018, 11:47 PM

105. All Democrats must remember nothing is free and most things worth having

costs a lot of money; somebody has to pay for it!

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #105)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:30 AM

117. Your point? nt

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Response to democratisphere (Reply #105)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 08:28 PM

160. We already pay for it.

Saying "somebody has to pay for it!" is always an empty statement, because no shit. Especially when it comes to healthcare. We spend about 30% more per person than the next closest nation at the top of the spending list, yet have worse life expetancy, and are among the worst of the developed world in multiple categories.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 09:25 AM

126. Demand that people that use the word socialist

 

define it.

That short circuits most people's arguments and argumentativeness.

Democratic Socialists are NOT socialists. Allowing anyone to conflate the two is absurd.

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Response to Chris Studio (Reply #126)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 07:31 PM

155. Just because YOU don't understand DSA's views

Doesn’t mean that DSA, as an organization, is not literally Socialist. Capital S.

Commies, Marxists, and comrades. Ending capitalism as we know it and replacing it with a horizontal Socialist economy. Not simply “wealth inequality” or even wealth redistribution, but actually changing the entire concept of wealth as Capitalists have defined it for us. That’s why candidates like Cynthia Nixon will only claim to “partly identify” with “some” of the DSA’s agenda/beliefs — because even in New York, it’s hard to win a statewide race as a literal Socialist.

The DSA are ALSO social democrats. Many are also Democrats. I, for instance, am all three: a Democrat, a Democratic Socialist, and a social democrat.

Go to a DSA meeting, or even spend five minutes on DSA’s website. Ask some questions, because you seem to be missing some answers.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 09:59 AM

128. our Party has ALWAYS stood

 

for an end to inequality among the races, genders and SO, always. Nothing in this OP about the 'progressive' platform is new. Old constant struggles, dressed up as new. Won't work to try to divide us further. Just GOTvoters, that our priority now. Not who wants to rule our Party with an outdated ideology and shown consistently to be not workable in American society. Maybe a socialist country somewhere in the world, but not here.

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Response to heaven05 (Reply #128)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 10:20 AM

131. ...

GOTV!

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 03:26 PM

147. Dem Moderates are NOT afraid of socialists

 

AOC's unsurprising victory in a majority Hispanic district, did not scare Dems, it's EVERYTHING she's done since: campaigning against Democrats nationwide, even against minority women progressives in favor of berners!

Far-leftists have 1 superpower: to stay home and/or vote trump [SSarandon, nina turncoat]. Their 'ideas' are not progressive, they are simply far left.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 05:48 PM

152. More the media pushing a wedge issue for ratings & clicks than fear from moderate democratics

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Sun Jul 29, 2018, 08:23 PM

159. The RW Hate Machine will pull out all the stops.

That way it will look like they don't have to cheat.

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Response to Fiendish Thingy (Original post)

Mon Jul 30, 2018, 03:53 PM

165. So the Democratic Party has its own little Tea Party.

As long as there's a "D" next to the name, no matter if leftist, centrist, blue or yellow dog. If Dems get a majority, they get the committee chairs, the speakership, etc. That's what matters.

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