I had understood, perhaps incorrectly, that there was more or less a consensus here that

[Atticus]

this coming mid-term election was so important --- so crucial --- that we were willing to support ALL Democrats, even those with whom we have strong differences. Yet --- for example --- some are teeing off on Democrats who DO support Nancy for Speaker and others are criticizing Democrats who DON'T.

Now, before someone turns this into "how dare you presume to tell us who we should support", please, put a cork in that bullshit. It is your right to support or criticize anyone you choose to. I am just echoing what others have recently posted: please, just for the next 90 days, suck it up; bite your tongue; let it ride. Do not give aid and comfort to the enemy. Choose to support a candidate you view as flawed over one who will actively support the most incompetent, corrupt and dangerous man ever to reside in the White House.

Just a suggestion.

[Funtatlaguy]

1. Everyone has to be a yellow dog 🐕 in November.

[Atticus]

3. Well said. nt

[Hortensis]

25. Well, I don't think your post is. If you don't want

division, Atticus, don't harp on it. Leave that to the agents the GOP and Russian intelligence sic on us, and of course to the unpaid trolls who do it for love, and then don't respond to incitements.

[Atticus]

32. I am sorry you think the OP inappropriate because I do respect your opinion. But, what

you see as "harping on" division I see as acknowledging reality and suggesting that we resist the efforts of the opposition to set us against each other. The problem of potential disunity won't just go away if we ignore it.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

39. Thank you Atticus

For saying what needed to be said.

There is simply too much at stake here to be pussy-footing around.

[forgotmylogin]

24. This is exactly how they win.

They all hang together.

Yeah, support the strongest candidate who's running and then is the time for Democrats to tweak little stuff within the party later when in control.

The time for "votes of principle" is in the Democratic primary.

[Funtatlaguy]

27. In the primary, fall in love. In the general, fall in line.

- Bill Clinton

[ooky]

34. Yellow dog here.

[lark]

57. Arf, arf.

Me too.

[Tactical Peek]

55. All aboard the Yellow Dog Railroad . . .

. . . come November.

[bullsnarfle]

59. I am an Independent.

And I do have issues with some of the right-leaning and/or corporate Dems.

And I say -

"Woof".

[ck4829]

99. +1

[mythology]

2. Sadly this will go unheeded is my guess.

[ProudLib72]

4. It's all about purity, baby!

Let's keep our ever shrinking party clean as a whistle!

[NCTraveler]

5. I don't think there is one I don't support.

I know there isn’t one I’m not willing to criticize.

[hlthe2b]

7. Exactly... Don't tell me I can't criticize, even if my support is complete at the ballot box.

Only my pup gets my unconditional love. Others need to prove their worth.

[Atticus]

9. Couldn't find a cork, eh? nt

[hlthe2b]

11. Don't be rude. Dems support their candidates but they don't do so as blind sycophants.

For you to demand otherwise is what we'd expect from our opponents.

[Atticus]

13. Lemme see if I have this right--- I "suggested" that you "choose" to support all Democrats in this

next election after specifically stating that "you have the right to criticize anyone you choose". In response, you tell me not to tell you you can't criticize whoever you choose---!---?---!---and then YOU call ME "rude"? That 'bout sums it up, doesn't it?

Good evening.

[hlthe2b]

14. You tell everyone here you disagree with to "put a cork in it" Really?

[Nitram]

68. Atticus just wanted to make sure his point would be understood. Obviously it wasn't.

Perhaps harsher rhetoric is required? Just kidding.

[Magoo48]

82. What you said.

[Curmudgeoness]

84. I think that the point is

that we can hold our criticism for a few months until after the midterms. Right now, criticism just gives the other side ammunition against the Democratic candidate as well as fueling doubts in some peoples' minds as to who they should vote.

A unified, supportive front is what we should be put up now.

[NCTraveler]

85. I wouldn't consider holding certain criticism.

That said, for the most part I am withholding most of my criticism.

I blasted Grayson on this very site, today.

Being critical of some of Ocasios actions have no electoral impact. She will win by 30+.

While I recognize and understand the point, it is without merit in reality.

[blue neen]

6. Thank you. Lots of posters here trying to stir up division on a daily basis.

Every voting district is different, and the Democratic candidates have to take that into consideration. They know it, and we should know it, too.

[Kaleva]

8. +1

[WinstonSmith4740]

19. True that!

I'm not sure why some folks here don't recognize trolls when they see them. They're here for a reason, and that's to disrupt, get us to turn on each other, and stop concentrating on what's important. THAT'S getting these bastards out of office. We keep talking about how Rethugs can't put country over party. Some of us here don't seem to be able to put country over our "standards". Purists on both sides of the aisle put Trump in office...his because they're pretty naive (if not just plain stupid) and believe everything he said. The ones on our side of the aisle chose to believe the worst lies about Hillary, and just couldn't "bring themselves" to vote for her. I heard that from more Jill Stein voters than I care to think about. They're now, of course, shocked and dismayed about what's going on. I make sure to thank them for allowing this to happen every chance I get.

[SCVDem]

45. Judging by post count

doesn't work. It's easy when there are 3, but 8,000?

I make it a point to not feed the trolls.

Also, Democrats are the true green party. Look what the orange ass has killed!

[WinstonSmith4740]

52. I know what you mean.

But I can't shake the feeling if these people are good enough to hack into some pretty sophisticated systems, they're good enough to set up fake identities and post counts.

I don't post a lot, and was gone for a while and had to set up a new account when I got back, but I've been here since the rethugs stole 2000 for W. We've all seen some pretty heated discussions, but I've never seen the level of discord as I've seen since that idiot came down that escalator. The freepers were always here, but they were fairly easy to pick out, what with their challenged spelling and grammer.

I try to stay out of it too. We all need to just shun them. And judging from the number of juries I've served on lately, they're pretty damn sensitive, too. They're like their messiah...they need the attention, feed on creating problems, and whine about being picked on when called out. We need to starve them out.

And yeah, when you get down to basics, the Dems have always been the real Green Party.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

61. Good points...

... and I have observed the same things while on juries here.

[Sherman A1]

10. That's nice

[LandOfHopeAndDreams]

15. Unity Is Critical

It's just unfortunate that on our side we have to take people who are not always loyal to us, while the repubs stick together no matter what. Getting even 1 to be critical of Kavanaugh is an impossibility, while there are at least a few Democrats more than willing to consider him.

But as voters, we Must Vote Democrat & We MUST ALL VOTE!

[Lady Freedom Returns]

16. I am a Yellow Dog Liberal Democrat.

I am very picky during the Primaries. I believe that's where we do our best to weed out the DINO's. To get the right person in the General.

But in the General, Don't have a "D", I ain't voting for Ya. Better dead than Red.

[SemiHalfling]

18. Agreed 100%

[emmadoggy]

20. .

[geardaddy]

75. Me too.

We've got some former Republicans running in the DFL primary here in MN. I ain't voting for them in the primary. If they, gods forbid, win, I'll hold my nose and vote for them.

[Honeycombe8]

17. Discussion is good. Voicing an opinion is good. Declaring s/he won't vote for a Democrat-not good.

I have not read any post where someone declares s/he will not vote for the Democrat, if the Dem. supports or doesn't support Pelosi, or whatever.

I don't consider discussions as being FOR Trump. Posters' discussions in this forum have no effect on causing people in the public to vote for a Republican or not to vote at all. We here are not celebrities or pundits or on national tv.

But like I said, I've not seen anyone say they won't vote for the Democrat, whoever it is.

I take that back...one person said working against the incumbent Democrat to push another Democrat is okay because the incumbent sucks. That is sort of like saying he won't vote for the incumbent, and is approving a national push to damage the incumbent. Very inappropriate and damaging...and I said so to that poster. For one thing: that's a great way to LOSE! I question the goal of a person who approves of damaging the chances of the incumbent, who has a much better chance of winning in the general election.

[DoctorJoJo]

21. Have We Learned NOTHING From the Susan Sarandon Turncoats in 2016?

[djacq]

22. Vote Blue!

issues;
Voting Rights
Racial Equality
Criminal and Justice Reform

Either it be Pelosi or someone fresh...

I’m all good.

[Adrahil]

23. I agree, but....

If it’s Pelosi or a Republican for speaker, the candidate must commit to support Pelosi.

[blue neen]

29. Um, If Nancy Pelosi is in position to be Speaker, then a Republican would not be eligible.

[brer cat]

50. Not true.

The Speaker does not have to be a member of the majority party or even a member of Congress.

[Adrahil]

56. That's not the way it works....

The entire House votes for Speaker.....

[2naSalit]

98. +1

[SCantiGOP]

26. Atticus:

You are correct, sir (or madam as the case may be).

[2naSalit]

28. Beware of trollsters seeking to

stir the sh*t!! Don't let it happen again!

[Auggie]

31. Exactly. How do we know these "opinions" aren't trolls?

[2naSalit]

33. I just watch how I interact

if something seems off, I won't interact.

[The Liberal Lion]

78. Just because someone does not agree

does not simply a troll make. I don't agree, and I'm not looking to stir any shit, but rather merely express my opinion just like everyone else here.

[Hekate]

30. Recommended

[McCamy Taylor]

35. I thought DU policy was to support Dems before elections.

I love free speech and all, but if anyone violates the above rule then I would have no problem voting them "guilty" if called upon to serve as a DU juror. Can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater and can't post anything intended to discourage Democrats from voting (for Democrats) before an election. Especially this election.

In fact, this is so important that there should probably be a special label for threads and comments which serve no useful purpose except to bring down the Democratic Party from within.

[stuffmatters]

88. Agree completely. DU please label,warn us not to click on, support these anti Dem Nominee threads

Bkz then they get the numbers and get on trending, then good reads etc and stay on the DU front page all day; so depressing, such an energy zapper when its energy and enthusiasm & UNITY we need now. They are so against DU Rules, yet every time I alert on them they seem to remain.

We are less than 90 days away from trying to save our democracy by everyone supporting, voting for the Democratic nominee on their ballot. It's time for all these self professed Democratic loyalists to stop this incomprehensible,divisive war on the huge tent of those who are fighting to elect Democrats.

[pnwmom]

36. So how do we respond to Democratic politicians who are attacking other Democrats? n/t

[EffieBlack]

58. Thank you

It seems that most of the "instructions" that we must all be unified come in response to criticisms of certain Democratic politicians and "allies" who trash other Democrats. Apparently unity means some Democrats can say whatever they want to and about us but we're supposed to just shut up and take it in silence because unity.

[Atticus]

64. The OP contained no ""instructions". I referenced Pelosi only because those criticisms were the

latest I'd heard. When Nancy or other "establishment" Democrats criticize Ocasio- Cortez, they should hear from us and be told to shut up. Likewise, when O-C criticizes Nancy, she should be told, by Democrats, to button her lip.

I can't think of one race where the Democrat, however less-than-perfect they may be, is not far preferable to their Republican opponent. I did not tell you to "just shut up and take it in silence. I suggested that you consider holding onto your disgust with some in our party for 90 days. As always, how you choose to speak or post is totally up to you.

[Nitram]

69. Attacking Democratic candidates as "obeying orders from Pelosi" is a GOP strategy right now.

Attacking Pelosi on DU is equivalent to repeating right wing talking points. Criticizing Democratic candidates for disavowing Pelosi is the same as not supporting a Democratic candidate. Let's just support Democratic candidates and leave Pelosi out of it for the time being.

[hueymahl]

62. I think it depends on why they are "attacking" other dems

Are they "attacking" a national figure strategically to take away a GOP talking point and enhance their chance at winning their seat, or are they doing something that is going to harm another Democrat's chances in November? I see these as two very different issues.

Bottom line, for me at least, is you do what you have to do locally to win. As long as you are not harming other Democrats' chances at winning this fall, I can forgive a lot. Now, you may have some answering to do after November, but I can bite my tongue until then.

[EffieBlack]

70. The problem with "taking away a GOP talking point" is that it's a myth

We so frequently repeat and double down on GOP talking points, with the excuse that we are diffusing it when, in reality, we're just amplifying and disseminating it further. And the Republicans NEVER back down because we've supposedly "taken it away from them." They just laugh, say it louder and more often, and take full advantage of Democrats who act as their surrogates by repeating GOP talking points and, in some instances, actually absorbing and acting on them.

[hueymahl]

73. I'm not sure I agree with that.

What I do agree with is that there is a hard-core red group that will vote R regardless of who says what. But it is those in the middle the may identify generally with R positions but also sometimes vote D. When you have a polarizing national figure, regardless of who it is, distancing yourself from that figure is just good strategy. It is not going to meaningfully turn off your own base, but it might allow you to pick up some important swing votes.

Same analysis goes for polarizing planks/positions. The most polarizing is probably reproductive rights. I'm as pro-choice as anyone, but I can see the strategy of playing down being pro-choice or even make noises about pro-life if I am running in a conservative, red district. It might allow me to peel off just enough votes to push me over the top.

It all gets back to this purity issue. Win first. Purify later.

[EffieBlack]

83. Can you name a recent anti-Democratic GOP talking point that Dems diffused by adopting it ourselves?

[Act_of_Reparation]

65. With your vote, maybe?

[nini]

37. I will NOT stop exposing and calling out those who have a goal of hurting my party ...

.. and ultimately help the GOP. Part of this division from within is highly organized and part of the Russian approach to dividing the country. I can't keep quiet when I see it. Even here.

And that doesn't mean a difference of opinion is automatically a troll / traitor but my radar is on big time these days.

[stuffmatters]

86. If you are "exposing" the Dem nominee going into the General, you're hurting my party

We are a big tent party, support the Democrat who wins the primary. If that Dem is ids as a Social Democrat or a Democratic Socialist or a Blue Dog or a No Labels that is irrelevant after the Primary and the Dem nominee is chosen. I am a 50plus year long FDR Democrat yet I'm gladly voting for a self professed corporate "New Dem" in my District, because he's won the Primary fair and square. And I'm sure not on here writing about his ranking as one of the most frequent Dem pro Repug voters in the House.

I want my Party to win back Governorships, the House & the Senate; that's the only goal at this point. We know from post 2016 investigations that Putin/Trump Pravda did everything possible to keep the Hillary Bernie division going after the Convention. It was to DISCOURAGE Dems from voting at all, from showing up at the polls.. "Calling Out" our Democratic nominee in any race after the primaries, whether they campaign as 100% true blue Democrat or as a Democrat who opposes some Democratic positions or leaders. is to me frustratingly counter productive. It aides only the Repugs/Trump/Putin. It's exactly the strategy they themselves weaponized against our Party...if you can't convince them to vote Repug, just discourage them from voting for the Democrat.


I know of only one election where there are still 2 Dem opponents going into the General:...Ca Senate w de Leon against Feinstein, bkz of the jungle primary system. So it's imminent that this will entail one Dem criticizing each others Dem positions and records. Either way a Dem will win. (write ins not allowed, these two are the only Senate choices in Ca) Other than cases like this, I am absolutely not down for attacks on our Democratic Primary winners from Democrats...even Nominees in the "safest" of Dem demographics or those positioned for the steepest uphill battles against Repugs.

[nini]

93. I always support Democrats

I don't support fake instigators.

Why the fuck aren't people seeing they're being played by some of these people?

[stuffmatters]

96. If they won the Democratic nomination fair & square, they are OUR candidates not "fake instigators"

That's an dark and divisive avenue I won't walk with you.

[nini]

97. you are missing my entire point

so we're done

[Perseus]

38. AGREE 100% with you

We must support all democrats, I can bet anyone that any disagreements you may have with any democrat is less lethal than anything any republican can/will do.

THERE IS NO COMPARISON...Wake up and support the Democrats.

trump is already talking about hurting news media he doesn't agree with, well, having a majority of crooks can make that happen, and worst...

I support a zero negative talk about any democrat, united we win.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

40. Thank you and well said.

[defacto7]

41. Hear hear!

I'm with you.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

42. KR NT

[marble falls]

43. We can bicker after we win.

[Act_of_Reparation]

66. Unfortunately, primaries come before the general.

Which is fine, as long as we remember to stop bickering once the primaries are over.

Which we won't. Because look around.

[marble falls]

71. One election at a time. We can do it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

79. Whatever happens between us internally probably won't affect the GE significantly.

And however the GE turns out probably won't affect us internally significantly. If we pull it together and win, we'll be bickering because one side is clapping itself on the back while the other is dissatisfied we didn't win enough. If we somehow fuck it up and lose, both sides will continue blaming each other.

In any event, the bickering isn't going to stop soon. Which is unfortunate because this place didn't used to be so... tedious.

[marble falls]

80. Every vote counts and every group of voters count. The energy is what will make the Blue Wave ...

happen or not.

[Act_of_Reparation]

81. Not disputing that.

I'm just not sure anything said here is really going to affect that energy in a meaninful way. We are all, by virtue of our being here, dedicated to liberal politics. As a group, I'm willing to bet we are all reliable voters, and reliable Democratic voters to boot. Regardless of what's said here, I think it likely the sweeping majority of DUers will vote Democratic in November.

The people who need energizing are the apathetic types who do not find political discussions nearly as stimulating as you or I. That is, they probably aren't regulars here.

[heaven05]

44. no problem here

[Beartracks]

46. I'd vote for someone who supports me 50% over someone who fights me 100%. n/t

[gibraltar72]

47. I would prefer a Unicorn.

But I would take a pony.

[orangecrush]

48. K&R!

[SCVDem]

49. The worst day fishing

beats the best day working.

The worst Democrat is better than the best Republican/Green/Independent

I am tired of third party candidates bleeding our total.

It's time for regime change in America!

[njhoneybadger]

51. That's reasonable

[dalton99a]

53. Republicans are our enemies. They MUST be defeated.

Last edited Thu Aug 9, 2018, 02:10 AM - Edit history (1)

[hueymahl]

63. Really like this.

Hopefully lots of people on this site see it.

[oasis]

54. "We must hang together or we will most assuredly hang separately"

----Ben Franklin

Too much at stake for personal agendas to get in the way.

[Iggo]

60. I'm with you.

[Nitram]

67. Hear, hear!

[ut oh]

72. We definitely need to vote and vote Dem

I used to be in Pelosi's district. I am not so fond of her now. The lack of any investigation into the lies that got us into Iraq was cowardly. And her 'single payer is off the table' crap finalized it for me. We can worry about who's leading the Dem's when we take the house back.

[PatrickforO]

74. You know, there are a few on this site who nitpick.

But I really have not noticed people saying they will or won't support candidates based on whether those candidates are or are not supporting Pelosi.

The thing is, November hasn't happened yet, and we have not yet flipped either House.

So, logically, anyone spouting that nonsense is counting their chickens before they are hatched. Or maybe counting birds in a bush the same as birds in hand.

Can't do it.

As to arguing for younger, more progressive leadership, rest assured that many, many of us will be doing that.

[zipplewrath]

76. Nothing written here matters

DU doesn't influence the general population at all. At best we influence each other and we're all gonna vote for democrats. It's not a big deal if people want to advocate for their various positions. It's what the place is for in a way.

[The Liberal Lion]

77. I was going to put a "cork in it"

as Atticus requested, as I do not agree with the premise of the statement, but then I saw your post and I decided to tell you that I agree with your sentiment.

[Heartstrings]

87. Vote like your life depends on it!

GOTV and vote D...not the time to try snd make a point!

[druidity33]

89. you're conflating Primaries with Elections.....

All of us here at DU will vote for Democrats this fall. Those of us who haven't yet voted in our Democratic Primaries may choose a candidate who has said they would rather not vote for Pelosi as Speaker. Sometimes that is a "long-run" strategy... if they win the Primary they are more attractive to Independents and anti-establishment Dems. I can respect the fact that this irritates you, but don't you think your post is just adding to the division? When all State Primaries are over (mid-September?) then this won't even be an issue any more. Period. If we win the House we'll deal with the discussion of who should be the Speaker.

Also, I have to point out that you say, "It is your right to support or criticize anyone you choose to". Then you basically chastise anyone who is critical of a Democrat by saying, " suck it up; bite your tongue; let it ride. Do not give aid and comfort to the enemy." This angers me a bit. I am a Democrat and this is my party too. Whether it's a "suggestion" or not it feels to me like you are doing exactly what you say you are not doing, ie. "how dare you presume to tell us who we should support". How are you NOT doing that?

[Atticus]

94. Obviously, you will believe what you choose to believe and interpret my post as doing

exactly what it explained it was NOT doing. Essentially, you are saying I posted in bad faith and it is your right to say that. Without writing a treatise on political pragmatism vs morality, there is no way for me to answer your "questions"

Your supposition that those who "would rather not vote for Pelosi" "irritate" me is totally baffling to me. I can't see where anything I posted caused you to jump to that conclusion.

Let's just agree to vote a straight Democratic ticket and hope for better days, OK?

[Caliman73]

90. Every vote should be crucial. Every election should be crucial. Discussion and debate, also...

People should be able to state their disagreements with the policy positions or with a candidate. That is healthy for democracy. You are correct however regarding voting. There are distinct differences even between the most conservative Democrat and a Republican in this period.

I see nothing wrong with debate, especially within the primaries about who we want to represent the Democratic Party. I think Nancy Pelosi is one of the best Democratic Politicians in modern times and is likely the best Speaker of the House in the last 25 years. That said, there are some decisions that she made that I deeply disagree with. That said, I would support her for becoming Speaker again in a heartbeat and she will likely win the seat in her district again easily but a primary challenge is good because it sharpens you for the general election, and that is where it counts.

There is a difference between discussion policy positions and being a troll. I think that too often (and I understand the trauma of 2016 on DU) people with differing opinions are simply labeled trolls. Some are easy to spot, others take awhile.

I prefer to engage in as respectful and detailed a discussion or debate as possible, while ultimately understanding that the Democratic Candidate is almost certainly going to be better for the average, non-wealthy, non-white supremacist person.

[DownriverDem]

91. What side are they on?

I have no use for folks who just don't get how important the midterms are. I'll leave it at that.

[Olafjoy]

92. Unity of purpose

I celebrate and respect the diversity of my political family. I know Democrats understand the 2018 midterm elections will be the most consequential of our lifetime. We will work every day to stop the madness. We will vote for Democrats.

[GulfCoast66]

95. The irony is that 99% of the rancor on DU is at its heart caused by someone who is not even a member

Of the Democratic Party.

Fact.