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Tue Aug 14, 2018, 05:36 AM

The failure of the 2018 Unite the Right march shows that - for now - Antifa's tactics work



Whether the violent tactics of Antifa are the most moral option in the face of emboldened Nazi marchers is also one for debate by future historians. On one hand, their violent attacks against the Nazis marching in Charlottesville and at other white supremacist rallies like one in Berkeley just two weeks later gave Trump cover to pretend moral equilibrium between the two sides.

But on the other hand, those who said that stooping to their level would in some way undermine the counter-movement do not yet seem to have been proven right.

In the end, in Washington DC, the outer bands of a torrential rainstorm to the north of the city dampened this weekend’s Unite the Right rally. Two dozen soggy white supremacists arrived at the White House flanked by rows of police officers, allocated for their protection from the masses of counter-protesters who gathered to show that they were not welcome, and from the black-clad Antifa in their midst.

The message seems to have gone out that, at least as far as the American people are concerned, Nazis will not be allowed to march through the streets with impunity.

At least, not yet.


[link:https://www.newstatesman.com/world/north-america/2018/08/failure-2018-unite-right-march-shows-now-antifa-s-tactics-work|

Interesting perspective - well worth reading the entire article

43 replies, 2263 views

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Reply The failure of the 2018 Unite the Right march shows that - for now - Antifa's tactics work (Original post)
Soph0571 Aug 2018 OP
D_Master81 Aug 2018 #1
genxlib Aug 2018 #3
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #5
genxlib Aug 2018 #12
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #25
brush Aug 2018 #23
genxlib Aug 2018 #24
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #4
disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #19
comradebillyboy Aug 2018 #27
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #31
comradebillyboy Aug 2018 #32
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #35
brewens Aug 2018 #43
lamp_shade Aug 2018 #2
Loki Liesmith Aug 2018 #6
eShirl Aug 2018 #7
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2018 #36
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #8
disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #11
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #15
disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #17
Javaman Aug 2018 #22
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #37
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #42
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #33
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #38
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #41
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #29
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #39
Downtown Hound Aug 2018 #40
Squinch Aug 2018 #9
vi5 Aug 2018 #10
disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #13
vi5 Aug 2018 #16
disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #18
Javaman Aug 2018 #21
CentralMass Aug 2018 #14
potone Aug 2018 #28
disillusioned73 Aug 2018 #20
ck4829 Aug 2018 #26
Initech Aug 2018 #30
Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2018 #34

Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 05:43 AM

1. I actually think

It was as much people getting called out on social media and losing their jobs or getting kicked out of school that did it.

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Response to D_Master81 (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 05:53 AM

3. I was going to say the same thing

I think these assholes like antifa because it makes them feel tougher than they are. They would welcome a little violence because it makes them into martyr's.

I prefer the show of force to be a police presence while the method of counter-protest be peaceful with a strong dose of redicule

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Response to genxlib (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:08 AM

5. If you're counting on the police to be the bulwark

against fascism and white supremacy, you are destined for great disappointment.

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #5)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:59 AM

12. Who said that

I will count on peaceful protesters outnumbering the asshole 100:1 to bulwark democracy.

I will count on the police to keep the few dozen assholes from turning it into a riot.

Then I will count on the internet to shine light on those assholes so that civilized society can shun them

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Response to genxlib (Reply #12)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:35 AM

25. Peaceful protesters only started showing up in

Large numbers long after Antifa was showing up and brawling with them. If you can get them to show up in large numbers every time then great. But clashes happened several times before Charlottesville in which Antifa were the only ones who showed up because all those peaceful protesters you laud had better things to do. Meanwhile, Antifa, who people like you condemn, were actually, risking their safety and their lives to go out and confront these assholes while lots of "good protesters" stayed home.

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Response to genxlib (Reply #3)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 09:32 AM

23. Antifa are assholes? You know that stands for anti-fascists, right?

Antifa stood between the racists and nazis in Charlottesville a year ago and have been credited with saving several clergy from harm.

They're on our side.

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Response to brush (Reply #23)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:05 AM

24. I think i miscommunicated my intent

I mean "like" as in "are fond of"

Not "like" as in "similar to"

So let me restate it more clearly.

I think these racist shitheads enjoy having antifa there because it makes them feel tougher than they are. They would welcome a little violence because it makes them into martyr's.

I think Antifa are righteous and on the right side. I just don't love the tactics.

Sorry for any confusion

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Response to D_Master81 (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:05 AM

4. Are you aware that it was Antifa who did

much of that doxxing?

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #4)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:40 AM

19. Too many folks have been convinced..

 

of the 2 equal sides bullshit.. funny, cause that was Trumps stance on this issue..

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Response to D_Master81 (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:41 AM

27. Definitely more of a factor than ANTIFA's

counterproductive antics. Shining a light on those cockroaches is much more effective than street brawling.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #27)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:46 AM

31. They're both important.

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #31)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:49 AM

32. I think ANTIFA's propensity for seet brawling

is very counterproductive.

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Response to comradebillyboy (Reply #32)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 11:00 AM

35. If you can manage to get all those sensible, level- headed

Peaceful protesters to get off their sensible asses and show up every time to shut the fascists out then street brawling wouldn't be necessary. But more often then not, it's only Antifa that shows up, and when the fascists see that they're not outnumbered but might even have a numerical advantage, then street brawling is what happens because they are an inherently violent group.

It was only after Antifa showed up and brawled with the Nazis multiple times and showed the world that there's a problem here that the "reasonable" people started showing up too.

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Response to D_Master81 (Reply #1)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 04:45 PM

43. I don't like any kind of violent acts, that makes us look bad. Organizers should warn

against any violence or destruction of property. Not only that, I'd like to see them organize a number of teams at any protest to identify anyone doing anything violent or destructive. They should video anyone doing anything violent, follow them and try and ID them. They have to get in a car or something eventually. The guy in the motorcycle helmet with the roman candle couldn't have gotten away very easily. He couldn't outrun a couple kids for long with that helmet on, or carrying it.

I suspect a lot of those assholes causing trouble are agent provocateurs coming in from the other side. If they did think they were on our side and helping the cause, let them also know they are not welcome.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 05:49 AM

2. Thanks. That was definitely well worth reading.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:12 AM

6. Lol n equals 1 is not an experiment

What an asinine article

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:19 AM

7. What does Antifa say, does it agree?

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Response to eShirl (Reply #7)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 11:02 AM

36. Antifa isn't a legit group.

It's a term lumping in legitimate counter protesters with fringe anarchists/provocateurs.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:39 AM

8. Heather Heyer calls bullshit. Nt

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:58 AM

11. Who do think Heather aligned with that day??

 

The Nazis or Antifa??

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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #11)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:13 AM

15. Hard for me to take this questions seriously.

 

Isn't it common knowledge. Try google.

She was not aligned with a violent faction.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:31 AM

17. She was there to protest AGAINST Nazis ..

 

The answer is obvious.. the fact that you choose to equate the two "factions" like Trump did tells me you have no skin in the game..

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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #17)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 09:26 AM

22. +1 nt

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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #17)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:00 PM

37. I equated nothing as you claim. nt

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #37)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:55 PM

42. You most certainly have.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #15)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:52 AM

33. Neither was this man or any of his congregation

https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/16/1690519/-Rev-Seth-Wispelwey-I-am-a-pastor-in-Charlottesville-and-antifa-saved-my-life-twice-on-Saturday

If it had been left to people like you they would have been crushed, but he was very glad Antifa was there that day.

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #33)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:01 PM

38. Then why would HH agree with the first paragraph of this article in any way?

 

"If it had been left to people like you they would have been crushed"

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #38)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:52 PM

41. I don't claim to speak for HH

That's your thing that you've rather pathetically decided you have the moral authority to do.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #8)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:44 AM

29. You actually think you're qualified to speak for a dead

woman murdered in a Nazi terrorist attack by condemning those who were fighting be her side? That is one of the most pathetic things I've ever read on DU. When Heather Heyer's mom spoke the other day, did she condemn Antifa, or the Nazis?

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #29)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 12:02 PM

39. Yes, I do. When it comes to the shit show that this article is.

 

I'm well aware of her mothers comments. Heartbreaking.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #39)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 01:50 PM

40. Well, you don't.

And it's beyond arrogant to think you do.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:52 AM

9. No it doesn't.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 06:53 AM

10. Yeah, it still won't convince our own homegrown "both sides" types on DU and elsewhere...

 

The amount of people on here who continually choose to equate anti-racism, anti-fascism, and anti-police brutality with the facist, racist, bigoted and murderously violent right wing/KKK/nazis is pathetic.

I hope all their friends at their nice, polite coffee klatches or around the water cooler at work are so impressed with just how sensible and polite they are in the face of rapidly advancing fascism in our country.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #10)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:03 AM

13. Well said..

 

I've said it before - If I have a choice between Antifa.. or standing by while Nazis & KKKers roll down my block, as a minority I am standing strong with Antifa..

Some folks have the luxury of inaction, me.. my family & friends don't.. we are the target of these fascists..

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Response to disillusioned73 (Reply #13)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:26 AM

16. What really gets to me....

 

Last edited Tue Aug 14, 2018, 09:41 AM - Edit history (1)

...is that since the beginning of the W years, I've been screaming to my more "sensible" allies in our party and people generally left of center that what the Republican party was doing was heading us toward fascism and trying to undo all the advances of the last 30 years. I said we need to be stronger in the ways we fight. Not violence strong, but stronger through the established channels than our side has had a history of being the past 20 years. Those people told me I was just being extremist and alarmist. They continually poo-pooed me and insisted that we have to be "better than the crazies on the other side" and that the system would work and the checks and balances of power would work.

Well after 20 years of taking the high road here we are with fascism not just at our door but in our house and pissing all over the furniture, and these same people who didn't want to listen to me and others like me are still insisting that we can fight this scourge with nice conversation over tea and cookies and that if we just let Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi do their nice, polite jobs that all of this bad stuff will go away on it's own and we don't need to do anything that David brooks would deem uncivil.

I'm likely as safe a demographic as they come right now, but I'll be goddamned if I'll sit by and wait for all the nice, safe, established institutions of power which have already failed my brothers and sisters in the various marginalized communities to come along and save the day.

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Response to vi5 (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:36 AM

18. I hear ya..

 

How'd that "take the high road" philosophy turn out?? (rhetorical)

And yet, we're still here - hearing the same ole, same ole... I think(hope) the young will bring back the spine needed for this fight...

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Response to vi5 (Reply #16)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 09:26 AM

21. +1 nt

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:07 AM

14. They have caused millions on property damage in Portlamd over the last few years.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #14)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:43 AM

28. Nor do I.

They discredit peaceful protesters.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 07:43 AM

20. K&R..

 

Stop hand wringing folks...

"In the year since Heyer’s death, America has been in a hand-wringing conversation about whether it is “ok” to punch Nazis. As I wrote after Charlottesville, that is not a moral quandary that my grandfather and his generation, who fought Nazis both on the beaches of Normandy and in the streets of East London at the battle of Cable Street, would have struggled with."

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:40 AM

26. K&R. No place for fascism, no patience for the far right, and no time for reactionary politics.

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:46 AM

30. Most of the people involved in last year's rally have either been arrested or they're in hiding.

So naturally there were way fewer Nazis this year than last year! That's how you do it!

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Response to Soph0571 (Original post)

Tue Aug 14, 2018, 10:55 AM

34. Can we stop referring to "Antifa" as if it's a real thing?

There's no legitimate organization called "Antifa."

Antifa = antifascists = people who oppose racism and bigotry = most normal, decent people.

That's it.

While being anti-fascist is certainly the right path to take, "Antifa" has taken on a pejorative implication of lumping in all counter-protesters with the fringe of weird, shady folks who show up at these protests and like to wear black and facemasks and seem to enjoy chaos for whatever reason (whether they be provocateurs or legitimate anarchists).

And sure, I suppose we could launch efforts to take back and reclaim the term "Antifa" as a positive thing, but in terms of priorities it's pretty damn low.

People who counter protest against racists, bigots, neo-nazis, etc. are just people with normal decency who oppose hate. That's it. Calling those people "Antifa" and lumping them in with fringe anarchists does nothing good.

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