BREAKING - Trump considers Manafort pardon

[SkyDancer]

This would basically be him admitting he is guilty. Lock him up!

Link to tweet

[Tiggeroshii]

1. This is why retrying the 8 other charges will be hilarious

Tie it up so no pardon can be made for another 4-5 months.

[Lochloosa]

2. Not true. He can pardon him for those also.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. After a conviction

I doubt he can give Manafort a prospective pardon ala Ford-Nixon and have it pass Constitutional muster.

[Lochloosa]

8. Ford-Nixon set the mold. I think it would be upheld

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. So how is this pardon going to read ?

"I hereby pardon Paul Manafort for any crime he committed in the past and might commit in the future." ?'

[Lochloosa]

14. Can't pardon for future crimes, but the past one works.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. Nixon's pardon was confined to his acts as president.

Anyway Manafort could be compelled to testify and charged with perjury if he lies.

I hope Trump does something as insane as pardoning everybody Mueller convicted or pleaded guilty. It will just bring this saga to a head sooner.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

40. But he can be charged with perjury in the future if he lies about past crimes

That is significant, because once Manafort is pardoned, he would lose all protection afforded by the Fifth Amendment with regard to those actions. He can be subpoenaed and compelled to testify.

[Lochloosa]

52. It does get a little complicated. Lol

[ProudLib72]

5. 10 charges remain

He was found guilty of eight charges out of eighteen. So they could try the other ten, find him guilty of a few, let him get pardoned again, keep him in prison till the rest are tried.

That is a possibility, and if Rump is going to behave so badly, then maybe this is what needs to happen. Keep Manafort in prison till he dies.

[PJMcK]

35. I like your plan (n/t)

[Beartracks]

3. Trump still thinks a pardon is a magic wand that confers innocence?

=======

[shraby]

6. That will free them to question manafort about trump and he can't

use the 5th to keep from answering the questions.

[onenote]

41. He can still take the 5th with respect to matters unrelated to the crimes for which he is pardoned

[phleshdef]

7. LOL. Go ahead and do it then "President Shit for Brains". It won't help your case.

[workinclasszero]

9. Instant grounds for impeachment!!!

To add on to the ones already existing.

Also would prove to the whole world that Trump is a criminal if anyone needs additional proof.

Shut down the government the day mob boss Trump hands Manafort a pardon IMO

[njhoneybadger]

29. The Ruthug Senators will never impeach The Orange One

Unless Putin gives McTurtle the go ahead

[workinclasszero]

68. True but so what?

That didn’t stop a GOP House from impeaching President Clinton, did it?

[at140]

31. Are you hoping for 67 democratic senators after

November election?

I ask because that is the magic number needed to uphold impeachment passed by the House. Or are you counting on 8 or 9 republicans to uphold impeachment. I don't think there are that many republicans in senate with courage and patriotism.

[BlueWI]

56. There's a point where some Republican senators

Last edited Thu Aug 23, 2018, 11:41 PM - Edit history (1)

will consider the historical implications of their vote. I don't think anyone wants the smear of being complicit, in the sunshine, with obvious corruption, if there's a public vetting of the president's actions through impeachment hearings.

I remember that on the Democratic side, even Russ Feingold spoke about his willingness to hear the charges against Clinton in the Senate. It would be tough to get 67 votes to convict, but the alternative is to allow likely crimes by the president to be perpetrated without public accountability. I think that's a worse alternative than impeachment without conviction.

[at140]

61. Correct on your points,

so yes, impeachment hearing should take place and any and all crimes committed by Trump should be aired out for all to see.

Lot depends on November elections. If republicans lose seats in senate, Trump will be impeached and gone before 2020.

If republicans gain seats in senate, we are stuck with Trump at least until 2020. That is just my opinion, not what I wish.

[workinclasszero]

71. Right

If a lawless pig like Trump walks away clean without even being impeached then the entire system is a damn joke!

Future presidents will know this and may act accordingly.

[workinclasszero]

70. The absolute worst excuse of a president

ever inflicted on this nation must be impeached for his numerous and ongoing crimes and treason even if the Senate refuses to do its duty IMO.

What kind of message will we be sending future presidents if the corrupt and treasonous Trump does not even have to face impeachment for his many crimes?

[at140]

72. Yes, tell that to 51 GOP senators!

They are almost all party hacks.

[BlueWI]

74. That's what impeachment hearings are for.

If the Democrats win a house majority, Pelosi should put her legendary caucus disciplining skills to work so that impeachment is considered. Otherwise, no accountability results from high crimes in plain sight, and we Democrats will have no one to blame but ourselves and a preference for risk aversion, even in the face of blatant undermining of election integrity by a hostile foreign power.

Obviously this requires winning a majority in the midterms, but if we do and don't impeach, no more excuses.

[at140]

75. Majority votes in House and 67 votes in Senate

are required to impeach and remove. Impeachment alone without senate confirmation keeps the president in power.

[BlueWI]

76. Of course.

So do you only seek redress for selling out the state to a foreign power if you have a guaranteed conviction?

I guess the answer is yes.

[Snackshack]

10. Trump has been...

Planning on doing this all along.

[boston bean]

12. What is BNO news?

[spanone]

23. looks like a twitter account.

[SkyDancer]

44. "Breaking News Online"

They are a news aggregator on Twitter, you can find their website here

It's strictly news from around the world, no opinion pieces, just headlines. One thing I like about them.

[triron]

13. Not mentioned on MSNBC. I have my doubts.

[SkyDancer]

45. I wouldn't doubt for a second

that POTUS Shit-For-Brains wouldn't pardon Manafort. He has already pardoned scumbags Arpaio & Dinesh D'Souza

[Matthew28]

15. Would

Trying the 10 charges at the state level be a way around this?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. Yes. But I assume state laws are different.

[dixiegrrrrl]

32. trump can't pardon state level, only federal.

Which is the wonderful thing about Manafort's state trial coming up in a few weeks.
So any pardon attempt will only backfire for Trump and his cronies, pissing people off even more, without any serious effect on Manafort. Another chess move by Mueller.

looks like Cohen is gonna get some NY state charges also, he has just been subpoenaed.

[onenote]

42. what 'state trial' is Manafort facing in a few weeks?

He has a second federal trial coming up, not a state trial.

[CentralMass]

51. A link to a related article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/business/trump-manafort-pardon-new-york-state-vance.html

[onenote]

54. That merely indicates there is an investigation ongoing

That's a lot different than a "trial" starting in a few weeks. In fact, the article specifically states that the prosecutors have not determined whether any state charges are warranted.

[CentralMass]

57. +1

[dixiegrrrrl]

59. thank you.

Dunno why I got that stuck in my brain.....

[Marcuse]

37. If he cheated on his US taxes he likely cheated on his NYS and NYC taxes.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

18. As soon as pardons him, Manafort has to talk. If waits too long might be 25th'd before can pardon.

Events can move very quickly these days.

[Generic Brad]

34. Why would he have to talk if pardoned?

His past behavior does not indicate he would.

[Marcuse]

36. Because having been pardoned, 5A self incrimination is not an issue. The witness must respond.

[Generic Brad]

38. And what happens if he still doesn't?

He strikes me as the kind of person who has no intention of playing by the rules. He may not face legal consequences, but he has a lot of Russian/mob/GOP acquaintances who may have convinced him that saying anything might be detrimental to his health.

[Marcuse]

39. Depends on whether he is in contempt of NYS court or Federal court. He could die in Attica or

..receive another federal pardon.

[tableturner]

43. Bingo!! Trump could pardon him for contempt of court if he refuses to testify.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

50. Then that is prima facie Obstruction of Justice. . . . nt

[at140]

62. Any president can pardon anyone

till the cows come home. There is no limit of how many pardons any one individual can receive, per US Constitution.
Additional Obstruction of justice is just another crime and another conviction which can be pardoned away again.

Best outcome we can all hope for is:

> Dems win House and begin impeachment proceedings
> Repubs lose senate seats in November
> A few republicans cross party lines and 67 senators vote to confirm impeachment.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

63. My point was it would be Trump Obstruction of Justice. He can't pardon himself. . . . nt

[at140]

64. The goal is to remove Trump from office ASAP

Mueller, Rosenstein & DOJ lawyers seem to have agreed that a sitting president can not be indicted. So Trump obstructing justice can not be taken to court and Trump put in jail.

Impeachment in House confirmed by 2/3 of Senate is the only real option to remove Trump before January 20, 2021.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

65. But tRump obstructing justice IS grounds for impeachment and conviction. Your goal (and mine). . .nt

[at140]

66. Correct!

Any of his exposed crimes help in passing impeachment in Congress.

We began talking about Manafort receiving pardon and then refusing to talk. Would make no difference if tRump is NOT impeached. He can serve out his term.

Of course after tRump leaves office, he can be indicted for anything.

[Claritie Pixie]

19. CNN says Trump and Guiliani discussed it. Nothing more than that.

[Thekaspervote]

20. Mueller I'm sure has been planning for that possibility- tiddlywinks vs master chess player

[workinclasszero]

21. More confirmation

Trump Considering Pardon For Paul Manafort, Fox News’ Ainsley Earhardt Says

[/https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/donald-trump/trump-is-will-consider-pardoning-paul-manafort-fox-news-ainsley-earhardt-says/amp/

[brettdale]

22. So how does a pardon work

Im guessing Trump is thinking, pardons work like this for bankruptcy.

[phylny]

53. There's a Michael Scott quote for everything!

[Rover1]

24. Triple Cross

I used to believe that indeed it is Trump who may have heisted the biggest prize ever-- however, Manaforth, whom would rather risk what he has in hand rather than answer for decades (since Reagen's time) of being himself, might have outdone Trump. I wouldn't waterboard him for "confessions" that could expose much greater Republican's misconducts-- but, it's sort of like "lust in your heart".

[Jarqui]

25. Trump may feel he has to pardon Manafort

Because if he doesn't and Manafort flips, how does he continue to say there was no collusion (conspiracy) when Manafort, Cohen, Gates, etc will be saying there was collusion.

Who will Trump have left? Eric 'I love it' Trump (who will also be found guilty) and Rudy "Truth isn't truth" Giuliani, Trumps Mis-information Minister

Pardoning Manafort and a Nixon-like Saturday night massacre of firing Mueller wouldn't surprise me. Like Nixon, it would likely result in impeachment eventually.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. Agreed... hope he does it. If that's not obstruction, WTF is?!?!

[underpants]

27. Message clearly sent to the Russian and Ukrainians

Who at least Manafort we know owes a boat load of money.

Trump's message is WE'RE NOT TALKING

[Takket]

28. Pardon is great for Manafort and a disaster for drumpf

No way he does it.

[at140]

33. No pardon coming before

2020 election is out of the way.

[Squinch]

30. Well if BNO news says so, it MUST be true.

[SkyDancer]

47. Do you know who they are?

My guess is no. They are a news aggregator on Twitter.

Reuters also has the story but hey! You go right ahead and don't think Trump wouldn't do this considering who he has already pardoned.

[Squinch]

60. Well! A news aggregator on Twitter! Then it must be GOSPEL! In fact, the story originated on

Hannity. It has since been retracted.

Strange that such a story, from such a source, should have been brought here to DU.

[SkyDancer]

69. How odd

That MSNBC has it, Reuters, and others like Politico & VOX

Almost as strange as how you seem to be defending Trump. Odd thing, that.

[Squinch]

73. All of them referring back to the same Hannity interview.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211037661

Interesting how you think accuracy is a defense of trump.

[Raine]

46. Considering and doing are two different things

I don't think even Trump is stupid enough to actually do it.

[Duppers]

49. 😂 You underestimate his stupidity.

And Colludy Giuliani is so senile now that he cannot advise Orange Foolius either.

[Hekate]

48. That is not news, SkyDancer

[R B Garr]

58. +1, I'm seeing a woo pattern. nt

[onenote]

55. Manafort could still refuse to testify even if he is pardoned for the crimes he was found guilty of

Manafort loses the right to plead the Fifth with respect to testimony about the actions that were the basis of his convictions. But to the extent that those same actions could lead to state charges, for which he still faces exposure, he could refuse to testify on those grounds. Plus, and far more significantly, he can refuse to testify about activities unrelated to the actions on which his convictions were based. To give an example, someone who is convicted of federal drug charges for activities conducted in 2014 could refuse to testify about those same activities if he could be charged for them under state law. And he could refuse to testify about different drug-related activities conducted in 2016 or about a bank robbery committed in 2014.

[Cognitive_Resonance]

67. It just might be the catalyst to bring things to a legal and political head. nt