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Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:10 AM

What kind of education did Trump get at Wharton?

We all know Trump isn't very bright, certainly nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. I have been struck by his ignorance of basic cultural norms, of things *everyone* knows--cocktail party conversation-type stuff. He often mentions things that everyone knows by starting out, "very few people know" which indicates of course that *he* didn't know. He doesn't show evidence of any kind of critical thinking, of being able to synthesize information, even of understanding cause and effect. These are skills that are taught in high school and in liberal arts college courses. Business degrees are a little like trade-school certification in that the point is to prepare the student for a specific kind of work--like a medical or legal degree does.

Trump likes to talk about being a graduate of Wharton. I know one person who has a bachelor's degree from Wharton--most people who mention their Wharton degrees are talking about an MBA--and he is woefully ignorant about literature, despite being an avid reader, and the other arts. Trump seems to be like this, too.

I visited the Wharton website to find out what the requirements are for earning a degree, and not surprisingly there is very little non-business material on that list. There is one required course (and that a seminar) of critical writing, a requirement for competence in one foreign language--not a course, but a test--and a couple a courses outside Wharton's business curriculum. These could be biology and geology.

He brags about being a graduate of an Ivy League university without having been touched by the skills and understanding that are the entire point of an Ivy League education.

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply What kind of education did Trump get at Wharton? (Original post)
cyclonefence Aug 2018 OP
DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2018 #1
Botany Aug 2018 #2
highplainsdem Aug 2018 #5
Crutchez_CuiBono Aug 2018 #14
highplainsdem Aug 2018 #3
former9thward Aug 2018 #12
Crutchez_CuiBono Aug 2018 #15
former9thward Aug 2018 #18
TreasonousBastard Aug 2018 #4
PatSeg Aug 2018 #8
Crutchez_CuiBono Aug 2018 #16
PatSeg Aug 2018 #22
TexasTowelie Aug 2018 #6
milestogo Aug 2018 #7
C_U_L8R Aug 2018 #9
Hortensis Aug 2018 #19
Greybnk48 Aug 2018 #35
C_U_L8R Aug 2018 #37
DFW Aug 2018 #10
former9thward Aug 2018 #17
DFW Aug 2018 #20
marylandblue Aug 2018 #30
Hortensis Aug 2018 #23
DFW Aug 2018 #31
Hortensis Aug 2018 #38
DFW Aug 2018 #39
Hortensis Aug 2018 #40
DFW Aug 2018 #44
exboyfil Aug 2018 #27
DFW Aug 2018 #36
BSdetect Aug 2018 #11
dalton99a Aug 2018 #13
BumRushDaShow Aug 2018 #21
unblock Aug 2018 #26
DFW Aug 2018 #33
Sneederbunk Aug 2018 #24
exboyfil Aug 2018 #29
2naSalit Aug 2018 #25
exboyfil Aug 2018 #28
marylandblue Aug 2018 #34
cyclonefence Aug 2018 #43
A HERETIC I AM Aug 2018 #32
0rganism Aug 2018 #41
PoindexterOglethorpe Aug 2018 #42
unitedwethrive Aug 2018 #45

Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:16 AM

1. Didn't he transfer from Fordham ?

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:18 AM

2. Trump went to Fordham U for 3.5 years and then through a family friend got a "back door" ....

..... admission to the University of Pennsylvania/Wharton. A professor @ the school
remembered Trump as being the dumbest student ever. For years Trump claimed
he finished @ the top of his class @ Wharton which was a lie.

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Response to Botany (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:27 AM

5. Two years at Fordham, from what I recall reading. Transferred because Wharton had a real estate

program.

Re Trump's claim he graduated at the top of his class - I recall seeing something with a list of all the honors grads for his class at Wharton, and he wasn't among the 21 students listed.


https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210066994


http://www.thedp.com/article/2017/02/trump-academics-at-wharton

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Response to Botany (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:53 AM

14. Man, so many lies. How does he keep them straight?

He doesn't, he lies everyday as a rule. imagine trying to cogently remember all that stuff.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:20 AM

3. Old DU thread: Former Wharton Professor: 'Trump Was the Dumbest G*ddamn Student I Ever Had'

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Response to highplainsdem (Reply #3)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:47 AM

12. What grade did he give him?

The professor is silent.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:54 AM

15. "Gentlemans C"?

Usually the deal.

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Response to Crutchez_CuiBono (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:57 AM

18. Maybe.

Of course with ultra grade inflation in today's colleges what is the value of any grade? But that is another subject...

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:27 AM

4. Somewhere in the bazillion or so articles about him and Wharton I remember...

a comment along the lines of "He never paid attention or knew anything, but he still never shut up."

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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:36 AM

8. That paints a perfect picture

He can't hear or absorb anything, because he can't stop talking. The only way to get his attention is to say his name.

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Response to PatSeg (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:55 AM

16. Or crinkle money.

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Response to Crutchez_CuiBono (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:24 AM

22. Or the always reliable

show a little cleavage. The man is much too predictable.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:30 AM

6. Oddly enough I live in a town called Wharton.

Based upon what I've read in the newspaper and noticed in the kids I considered it to be a somewhat mediocre school. I think that Trump would have ranked below average at a below average high school if he was a graduate from this Wharton.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:34 AM

7. He wants people to think he has a Wharton MBA, which he does not.

But then, Dubya had an MBA from Harvard and nobody there even remembers him.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:39 AM

9. Definitely not the prestigious MBA

He only got an undergrad degree. And apparently was pretty unremarkable.

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:07 AM

19. Right. Wharton's excellent reputation is for

its MBA program.

It's not hard to imagine how Trump got through undergrad, though. Just like so many don't belong in college.

We watched a number of kids with zero intellectual interest grow up and then go off to college to get their social marker. Southern California has a bunch of colleges and universities, but we learned the names of colleges we'd seldom heard of as most of these spread out around the country to institutions that would accept them. It became a chuckle over the years as we waited to hear where the next child would end up.

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Response to C_U_L8R (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:37 AM

35. I'm pretty sure his degree is from Penn,

with a couple of business classes picked up at Wharton, Penn's business school. Which is, or should be, REALLY embarrassing for Penn.

My dad did the same thing. He added business accounting to his Liberal Arts degree. His diploma is from Penn, with a certificate in business accounting from Wharton. I don't think Trump even did a program like my dad. I think he just took a couple of classes, which is not uncommon.

Trump did not apply to Wharton, nor was he accepted to their program. Not positive, but fairly certain.

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Response to Greybnk48 (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:44 AM

37. Penn really should clear this up for everyone

It reflects pretty poorly on them

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:42 AM

10. He was there, but only as a physical presence

I went to Penn and took one course at Wharton as part of my social sciences requirements (3 semesters, if your major is in another area). The professor was a really nice guy, and tough as nails. And that was just Econ 101. I was definitely not cut out for that place. No one like Trump would have survived a month at that school without a LOT of special consideration (i.e. parental donations). He would have come across to any Wharton professor as something one of my Russian teachers would have described as "глуп как пробка," which translates out to "stupid as a cork."

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:55 AM

17. When people posts things like this they think they are slamming the person.

"No one like Trump would have survived a month at that school without a LOT of special consideration (i.e. parental donations)."

What they are really doing is saying the school and the professors who work for it are corrupt. They will pass along a student purely for money. They can be bribed. What is the real value of a diploma from a corrupt school like that?

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Response to former9thward (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:08 AM

20. In one word: diminished

Just like W's degree from Harvard Business. Allowing this kind of practice diminishes both the students and the professors who have made serious academic accomplishments at these schools. But I have seen it first hand, and denying it serves no purpose.

These schools grant all sorts of scholarships to deserving students, and have to resort to this kind of thing from time to time because what they take in by way of tuition and contributions just doesn't cover their costs.

"Corrupt" is a strong word for a distasteful practice born out of necessity. Penn isn't proud of it. I have to assume Harvard isn't either. It's a price they pay to be able to give a legitimate education to real students that can handle the academics, but not the costs. Some of them end up driving taxis in spite of it all, while some undeserving place-holders from rich families end up in the oval office. No one ever claimed the system was 100% just.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #17)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:30 AM

30. Yes, the schools are corrupt for a wealthy few

I went to a prestigious school. The work was hard, and if you didn't do it, they kicked you out. So for most, the degree is meaningful. But if your parents were big donors, or you were on a sports team, you got more leeway. But it wasn't a completely free pass.

Another factor in Trump's favor was the Vietnam War. Professors were reluctant to fail aby student because it meant the loss of their student deferments. I went to school quite a bit later, when Vietnam wasn't a factor . Even with his money, he might not have made it in my time.

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:54 AM

23. Interesting view in, Penn to Wharton. Huh.

Lol, "stupid as a cork." Dumb as a bag of rocks here. Or to really get it across, dumb as two bags of rocks.

To be fair, I took econ 101 (macro) at a community college, and that was the toughest single course I've ever taken to that point. First time I ever had to really struggle to understand, but the class was interesting because no one had to study to pass if they didn't want to.

The professor makes me smile to remember,and he always seemed amused by us. He was really good and his lectures worth sitting in for. But he knew most in his giant classes were unambitious business majors getting their tickets to ordinary jobs, while others were getting general ed classes out of the way for low cost before transferring to universities for various fields of study.

So students could earn a C by memorizing a few definitions and being able to remember the answers to multiple choice questions in the workbook, same questions on the tests. B's required a lot more, though, required remembering and understanding the material, A performances with any other econ professor. To get an A, people had to have all the regular material plus extra readings that pushed beyond nailed back and forth to be able to solve problems not presented before. Huge leaps between levels. Not Wharton or Penn, but some students planning transfer to economics programs at places like UCLA or Pomona chose to kick off with this guy's classes. Or maybe their parents decided. An entire semester cost residents about $50, not including books.

Different worlds.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:30 AM

31. Econ 101 was just something I chose at random

Since my major was in the "humanities," I had to complete 3 semesters each in both "natural sciences" and "social sciences." Sometimes, I wondered how they decided which was which. For my 3 social sciences, I took the aforementioned Economics, Linguistics and Anthropology, which blew me away by being so interesting that I nearly changed my major. It's probably better that I didn't though. I thought it was the material that captivated me, but it turned out the professor I had became one of the best known and appreciated people in the field (his name was Alan Mann), and there was no guarantee that I would ever get anyone as good for the rest of my courses.

*on edit--"Penn to Wharton" isn't entirely accurate, as Wharton is part of Penn, both grad and undergrad. It's just that people looking to get a post-grad degree in business will only be attending classes at Wharton, instead of having their classes all over the campus.

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Response to DFW (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:54 AM

38. Good for you, though. I imagine you never regretted

studying econ, at least once past. I once considered majoring in economics and urban studies, go for advanced degrees all that, but instead followed my need to pull in an income and motherhood. At that time, a mere undergrad degree in urban studies would have gotten me a job in some planning department designing strip mall ingress or something.

If I could do it again, I'd study along the lines of cultural geography (my favorite-ever class and lots of overlap with anthropology) and be part of the explosion of knowledge. The possibilities just within that vague framework are so incredibly wide, I have no idea what I'd be working on now. But I choose to assume I would be part of it, and without doubt it'd be exciting.



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Response to Hortensis (Reply #38)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:03 AM

39. I totally agree on Anthropology

If I had had the guts to risk getting great professors all the way through, I might have been excavating gorges in Africa and South America for the last 40+ years instead of playing James Bond. The husband of my Swedish language professor was one of the top world authorities on Cuneiform writing, and was the only guy I ever met who could read Sumerian clay tablets. Just very cool stuff.

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Response to DFW (Reply #39)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:31 AM

40. Yes. VERY cool stuff. Well, I'm happy knowing that

that many, many others are busily involved in those and thousands of other adventures in knowledge.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 01:08 PM

44. So am I

When the thirst for knowledge dies, so do we. It's why Republicans and their glorification of ignorance are so frightening.

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Response to DFW (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:21 AM

27. Maybe reason for transfer from Fordham

Econ 101 may have been the business weed out course. Look to your left, look to your right - one of you is not going to be here at the beginning of the next semester.

Once you get into junior and senior level courses, the instructors actually spend more time ensuring that you do complete the program (that at least was the way in engineering).

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:41 AM

36. I wouldn't know, as I didn't pursue it

Obviously, the people looking to continue in business and get a post-grad degree from Wharton had to start the same place I did, but I had just picked Econ 101 to fulfill one of my 3 semesters of social science requirements, so my experience with the Wharton school began and ended there. Wharton was centrally located on Locust Walk, and was a convenient meeting place as sort of an informal outdoor café when the weather was nice, but that's as close as I ever got to the place after my one course there was done.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:44 AM

11. They gave him a dunce cap on his first day. Does that clarify it for you?

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:49 AM

13. Which Wharton?

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Response to dalton99a (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:10 AM

21. !!!



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Response to dalton99a (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:17 AM

26. close -- it actually wasn't the wharton business school.

it was an undergraduate program at u.penn.

not the much more famous and prestigious business school.

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Response to unblock (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:33 AM

33. Even the undergrad courses are done at Wharton

You just have to go on there if you want a post-grad degree, but it is in fact the same school. Same building, same classrooms, same staff.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:05 AM

24. Need to see his transcripts. What is he hiding?

Remember when he demanded to see Obama's transcripts?

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Response to Sneederbunk (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:28 AM

29. Yes the only President who ever

had that requested of him by the leadership of the opposition party. As if it would be more probative than tax returns for assessing the competence and lack of conflict necessary to make a decision about the President.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:14 AM

25. The kind that

he never had to do anything but be seen, which his daddy paid for.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:26 AM

28. I am not sure the school that a 72 year old man went to

50 years ago is relevant. At 55 I definitely note a loss of cognitive ability (it was apparent when I was trying to help my daughter in her junior level engineering classes). I could manage up to the sophomore level with a lot of work, but after that it became almost impossible. I also took engineering classes into my late 40s (over 80 hours of graduate courses in engineering and another 57 in business after my engineering degree).

I sure know I can't do engineering into my 70s like the GOP wants me to do. I better find something I can do with my hands.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:37 AM

34. It fits in with his narrative

He wants you to think hw's a brilliant self-made man like Steve Jobs, but really he is an undisciplined fool who relied on his father's money, connections, and business/conman lessons.

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Response to exboyfil (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:58 AM

43. I think it's relevant because Trump keeps bragging about it.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:33 AM

32. Minimal.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:33 AM

41. i think he's immune to education

as for Wharton? no exception there, i'm absolutely confident no knowledge was inadvertently absorbed during his brief stay.

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Response to cyclonefence (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 11:38 AM

42. It's been my impression for a very long time

that the most prestigious big name schools out there don't necessarily require very much of their students. At Harvard, at least half of all students apparently get straight A's, as 50 percent of them have a GPA of 3.67 or better. Really?

And their graduation rate is supposed to be 97.6%, which strongly suggests to me that a student will graduate unless they totally fuck up and then insist on dropping out. Yeah, I know all those who apply to the most prestigious and selective colleges are highly motivated and all that, but there's still something about the grade inflation and the graduation rates for some of these schools that I question.

When Trump was accepted into Penn it wasn't because he was an outstanding student, but because his father no doubt donated significant money and they sure as heck weren't going to endanger that. Professors will understand that they have to give the C, no matter what. Heck, the course requirements can be constructed so that merely showing up to class and taking a couple of exams, regardless of class participation or performance on the tests, earns that C. Which was probably the case for Trump.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #42)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 01:37 PM

45. In defense of prestigious schools, most have admission rates lower than 5% now...

the vast majority of their students are extremely bright. Yes, there are always a few athletes, kids of profs or rich alums who get in, but most are admitted based on their qualifications. As such, it would only make sense to let each student earn grades based on their own performance, and not on a 'curve' based on a student body of exceptionally intelligent people. Therefore, if someone actually learns the material sufficiently and is able to answer 90% of the exam questions correctly, they should get an A, regardless of how many other people also earn As. Sure, a professor can be an easy grader, but most of those employed by major universities have some reputation to uphold, and see this part of their job as actually educating the next generation. It is rare to find educators who want students to earn a degree without learning the subject matter required.

I was a pre-med major at a prestigious university, and took a couple of business classes (econ and stats), and in my experience, they were the easiest classes I took during my time at college. Organic chemistry, multi-variable calculus and physics were far more challenging. I also went on to attend a public medical school...which was a breeze compared to the rigors of my undergrad work at a private college, "easy As" and all.

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