General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat kind of education did Trump get at Wharton?
We all know Trump isn't very bright, certainly nowhere near as bright as he thinks he is. I have been struck by his ignorance of basic cultural norms, of things *everyone* knows--cocktail party conversation-type stuff. He often mentions things that everyone knows by starting out, "very few people know" which indicates of course that *he* didn't know. He doesn't show evidence of any kind of critical thinking, of being able to synthesize information, even of understanding cause and effect. These are skills that are taught in high school and in liberal arts college courses. Business degrees are a little like trade-school certification in that the point is to prepare the student for a specific kind of work--like a medical or legal degree does.
Trump likes to talk about being a graduate of Wharton. I know one person who has a bachelor's degree from Wharton--most people who mention their Wharton degrees are talking about an MBA--and he is woefully ignorant about literature, despite being an avid reader, and the other arts. Trump seems to be like this, too.
I visited the Wharton website to find out what the requirements are for earning a degree, and not surprisingly there is very little non-business material on that list. There is one required course (and that a seminar) of critical writing, a requirement for competence in one foreign language--not a course, but a test--and a couple a courses outside Wharton's business curriculum. These could be biology and geology.
He brags about being a graduate of an Ivy League university without having been touched by the skills and understanding that are the entire point of an Ivy League education.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Botany
(70,490 posts)..... admission to the University of Pennsylvania/Wharton. A professor @ the school
remembered Trump as being the dumbest student ever. For years Trump claimed
he finished @ the top of his class @ Wharton which was a lie.
highplainsdem
(48,968 posts)program.
Re Trump's claim he graduated at the top of his class - I recall seeing something with a list of all the honors grads for his class at Wharton, and he wasn't among the 21 students listed.
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100210066994
http://www.thedp.com/article/2017/02/trump-academics-at-wharton
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)He doesn't, he lies everyday as a rule. imagine trying to cogently remember all that stuff.
highplainsdem
(48,968 posts)former9thward
(31,981 posts)The professor is silent.
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)Usually the deal.
former9thward
(31,981 posts)Of course with ultra grade inflation in today's colleges what is the value of any grade? But that is another subject...
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)a comment along the lines of "He never paid attention or knew anything, but he still never shut up."
PatSeg
(47,399 posts)He can't hear or absorb anything, because he can't stop talking. The only way to get his attention is to say his name.
Crutchez_CuiBono
(7,725 posts)PatSeg
(47,399 posts)show a little cleavage. The man is much too predictable.
TexasTowelie
(112,118 posts)Based upon what I've read in the newspaper and noticed in the kids I considered it to be a somewhat mediocre school. I think that Trump would have ranked below average at a below average high school if he was a graduate from this Wharton.
milestogo
(16,829 posts)But then, Dubya had an MBA from Harvard and nobody there even remembers him.
C_U_L8R
(44,998 posts)He only got an undergrad degree. And apparently was pretty unremarkable.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)its MBA program.
It's not hard to imagine how Trump got through undergrad, though. Just like so many don't belong in college.
We watched a number of kids with zero intellectual interest grow up and then go off to college to get their social marker. Southern California has a bunch of colleges and universities, but we learned the names of colleges we'd seldom heard of as most of these spread out around the country to institutions that would accept them. It became a chuckle over the years as we waited to hear where the next child would end up.
Greybnk48
(10,167 posts)with a couple of business classes picked up at Wharton, Penn's business school. Which is, or should be, REALLY embarrassing for Penn.
My dad did the same thing. He added business accounting to his Liberal Arts degree. His diploma is from Penn, with a certificate in business accounting from Wharton. I don't think Trump even did a program like my dad. I think he just took a couple of classes, which is not uncommon.
Trump did not apply to Wharton, nor was he accepted to their program. Not positive, but fairly certain.
C_U_L8R
(44,998 posts)It reflects pretty poorly on them
DFW
(54,341 posts)I went to Penn and took one course at Wharton as part of my social sciences requirements (3 semesters, if your major is in another area). The professor was a really nice guy, and tough as nails. And that was just Econ 101. I was definitely not cut out for that place. No one like Trump would have survived a month at that school without a LOT of special consideration (i.e. parental donations). He would have come across to any Wharton professor as something one of my Russian teachers would have described as "глуп как пробка," which translates out to "stupid as a cork."
former9thward
(31,981 posts)"No one like Trump would have survived a month at that school without a LOT of special consideration (i.e. parental donations)."
What they are really doing is saying the school and the professors who work for it are corrupt. They will pass along a student purely for money. They can be bribed. What is the real value of a diploma from a corrupt school like that?
DFW
(54,341 posts)Just like W's degree from Harvard Business. Allowing this kind of practice diminishes both the students and the professors who have made serious academic accomplishments at these schools. But I have seen it first hand, and denying it serves no purpose.
These schools grant all sorts of scholarships to deserving students, and have to resort to this kind of thing from time to time because what they take in by way of tuition and contributions just doesn't cover their costs.
"Corrupt" is a strong word for a distasteful practice born out of necessity. Penn isn't proud of it. I have to assume Harvard isn't either. It's a price they pay to be able to give a legitimate education to real students that can handle the academics, but not the costs. Some of them end up driving taxis in spite of it all, while some undeserving place-holders from rich families end up in the oval office. No one ever claimed the system was 100% just.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)I went to a prestigious school. The work was hard, and if you didn't do it, they kicked you out. So for most, the degree is meaningful. But if your parents were big donors, or you were on a sports team, you got more leeway. But it wasn't a completely free pass.
Another factor in Trump's favor was the Vietnam War. Professors were reluctant to fail aby student because it meant the loss of their student deferments. I went to school quite a bit later, when Vietnam wasn't a factor . Even with his money, he might not have made it in my time.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Lol, "stupid as a cork." Dumb as a bag of rocks here. Or to really get it across, dumb as two bags of rocks.
To be fair, I took econ 101 (macro) at a community college, and that was the toughest single course I've ever taken to that point. First time I ever had to really struggle to understand, but the class was interesting because no one had to study to pass if they didn't want to.
The professor makes me smile to remember,and he always seemed amused by us. He was really good and his lectures worth sitting in for. But he knew most in his giant classes were unambitious business majors getting their tickets to ordinary jobs, while others were getting general ed classes out of the way for low cost before transferring to universities for various fields of study.
So students could earn a C by memorizing a few definitions and being able to remember the answers to multiple choice questions in the workbook, same questions on the tests. B's required a lot more, though, required remembering and understanding the material, A performances with any other econ professor. To get an A, people had to have all the regular material plus extra readings that pushed beyond nailed back and forth to be able to solve problems not presented before. Huge leaps between levels. Not Wharton or Penn, but some students planning transfer to economics programs at places like UCLA or Pomona chose to kick off with this guy's classes. Or maybe their parents decided. An entire semester cost residents about $50, not including books.
Different worlds.
DFW
(54,341 posts)Since my major was in the "humanities," I had to complete 3 semesters each in both "natural sciences" and "social sciences." Sometimes, I wondered how they decided which was which. For my 3 social sciences, I took the aforementioned Economics, Linguistics and Anthropology, which blew me away by being so interesting that I nearly changed my major. It's probably better that I didn't though. I thought it was the material that captivated me, but it turned out the professor I had became one of the best known and appreciated people in the field (his name was Alan Mann), and there was no guarantee that I would ever get anyone as good for the rest of my courses.
*on edit--"Penn to Wharton" isn't entirely accurate, as Wharton is part of Penn, both grad and undergrad. It's just that people looking to get a post-grad degree in business will only be attending classes at Wharton, instead of having their classes all over the campus.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)studying econ, at least once past. I once considered majoring in economics and urban studies, go for advanced degrees all that, but instead followed my need to pull in an income and motherhood. At that time, a mere undergrad degree in urban studies would have gotten me a job in some planning department designing strip mall ingress or something.
If I could do it again, I'd study along the lines of cultural geography (my favorite-ever class and lots of overlap with anthropology) and be part of the explosion of knowledge. The possibilities just within that vague framework are so incredibly wide, I have no idea what I'd be working on now. But I choose to assume I would be part of it, and without doubt it'd be exciting.
DFW
(54,341 posts)If I had had the guts to risk getting great professors all the way through, I might have been excavating gorges in Africa and South America for the last 40+ years instead of playing James Bond. The husband of my Swedish language professor was one of the top world authorities on Cuneiform writing, and was the only guy I ever met who could read Sumerian clay tablets. Just very cool stuff.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)that many, many others are busily involved in those and thousands of other adventures in knowledge.
When the thirst for knowledge dies, so do we. It's why Republicans and their glorification of ignorance are so frightening.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)Econ 101 may have been the business weed out course. Look to your left, look to your right - one of you is not going to be here at the beginning of the next semester.
Once you get into junior and senior level courses, the instructors actually spend more time ensuring that you do complete the program (that at least was the way in engineering).
DFW
(54,341 posts)Obviously, the people looking to continue in business and get a post-grad degree from Wharton had to start the same place I did, but I had just picked Econ 101 to fulfill one of my 3 semesters of social science requirements, so my experience with the Wharton school began and ended there. Wharton was centrally located on Locust Walk, and was a convenient meeting place as sort of an informal outdoor café when the weather was nice, but that's as close as I ever got to the place after my one course there was done.
BSdetect
(8,998 posts)dalton99a
(81,451 posts)BumRushDaShow
(128,844 posts)unblock
(52,196 posts)it was an undergraduate program at u.penn.
not the much more famous and prestigious business school.
DFW
(54,341 posts)You just have to go on there if you want a post-grad degree, but it is in fact the same school. Same building, same classrooms, same staff.
Sneederbunk
(14,290 posts)Remember when he demanded to see Obama's transcripts?
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)had that requested of him by the leadership of the opposition party. As if it would be more probative than tax returns for assessing the competence and lack of conflict necessary to make a decision about the President.
2naSalit
(86,536 posts)he never had to do anything but be seen, which his daddy paid for.
exboyfil
(17,862 posts)50 years ago is relevant. At 55 I definitely note a loss of cognitive ability (it was apparent when I was trying to help my daughter in her junior level engineering classes). I could manage up to the sophomore level with a lot of work, but after that it became almost impossible. I also took engineering classes into my late 40s (over 80 hours of graduate courses in engineering and another 57 in business after my engineering degree).
I sure know I can't do engineering into my 70s like the GOP wants me to do. I better find something I can do with my hands.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)He wants you to think hw's a brilliant self-made man like Steve Jobs, but really he is an undisciplined fool who relied on his father's money, connections, and business/conman lessons.
cyclonefence
(4,483 posts)A HERETIC I AM
(24,365 posts)0rganism
(23,943 posts)as for Wharton? no exception there, i'm absolutely confident no knowledge was inadvertently absorbed during his brief stay.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,848 posts)that the most prestigious big name schools out there don't necessarily require very much of their students. At Harvard, at least half of all students apparently get straight A's, as 50 percent of them have a GPA of 3.67 or better. Really?
And their graduation rate is supposed to be 97.6%, which strongly suggests to me that a student will graduate unless they totally fuck up and then insist on dropping out. Yeah, I know all those who apply to the most prestigious and selective colleges are highly motivated and all that, but there's still something about the grade inflation and the graduation rates for some of these schools that I question.
When Trump was accepted into Penn it wasn't because he was an outstanding student, but because his father no doubt donated significant money and they sure as heck weren't going to endanger that. Professors will understand that they have to give the C, no matter what. Heck, the course requirements can be constructed so that merely showing up to class and taking a couple of exams, regardless of class participation or performance on the tests, earns that C. Which was probably the case for Trump.
unitedwethrive
(1,997 posts)the vast majority of their students are extremely bright. Yes, there are always a few athletes, kids of profs or rich alums who get in, but most are admitted based on their qualifications. As such, it would only make sense to let each student earn grades based on their own performance, and not on a 'curve' based on a student body of exceptionally intelligent people. Therefore, if someone actually learns the material sufficiently and is able to answer 90% of the exam questions correctly, they should get an A, regardless of how many other people also earn As. Sure, a professor can be an easy grader, but most of those employed by major universities have some reputation to uphold, and see this part of their job as actually educating the next generation. It is rare to find educators who want students to earn a degree without learning the subject matter required.
I was a pre-med major at a prestigious university, and took a couple of business classes (econ and stats), and in my experience, they were the easiest classes I took during my time at college. Organic chemistry, multi-variable calculus and physics were far more challenging. I also went on to attend a public medical school...which was a breeze compared to the rigors of my undergrad work at a private college, "easy As" and all.