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Fri Aug 24, 2018, 06:55 PM

 

The trashing of Sen. McCain is disgusting and beneath us

I am appalled by what some of my fellow DUers are saying. And it makes me wonder about the company I'm keeping.

ďThe creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.Ē

― George Orwell, Animal Farm

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Reply The trashing of Sen. McCain is disgusting and beneath us (Original post)
EffieBlack Aug 2018 OP
john657 Aug 2018 #1
juxtaposed Aug 2018 #17
gopiscrap Aug 2018 #61
john657 Aug 2018 #66
classof56 Aug 2018 #113
john657 Aug 2018 #115
Honeycombe8 Aug 2018 #2
PJMcK Aug 2018 #90
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #94
olegramps Aug 2018 #95
Honeycombe8 Aug 2018 #108
PJMcK Aug 2018 #112
Honeycombe8 Aug 2018 #111
imanamerican63 Aug 2018 #3
Matthew28 Aug 2018 #4
Volaris Aug 2018 #28
obnoxiousdrunk Aug 2018 #5
juxtaposed Aug 2018 #6
tymorial Aug 2018 #83
4now Aug 2018 #7
Raine Aug 2018 #8
donkeypoofed Aug 2018 #9
oberliner Aug 2018 #10
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #11
john657 Aug 2018 #14
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #19
john657 Aug 2018 #20
NCTraveler Aug 2018 #34
john657 Aug 2018 #38
Lucca2 Aug 2018 #12
yowzayowzayowza Aug 2018 #13
dameatball Aug 2018 #15
Ponietz Aug 2018 #16
madaboutharry Aug 2018 #18
cstanleytech Aug 2018 #21
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #24
Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #32
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #47
CentralMass Aug 2018 #63
spooky3 Aug 2018 #67
Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #79
spooky3 Aug 2018 #65
cstanleytech Aug 2018 #36
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #42
cstanleytech Aug 2018 #52
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #56
Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #81
elmac Aug 2018 #22
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #26
Eliot Rosewater Aug 2018 #33
Liberalhammer Aug 2018 #23
AllTooEasy Aug 2018 #45
yokbizzi Aug 2018 #25
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #27
cstanleytech Aug 2018 #35
Jake Stern Aug 2018 #73
cwydro Aug 2018 #29
sarisataka Aug 2018 #30
Me. Aug 2018 #31
CaptainTruth Aug 2018 #37
john657 Aug 2018 #39
Chemisse Aug 2018 #40
mcar Aug 2018 #41
Generic Brad Aug 2018 #43
Jake Stern Aug 2018 #74
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #44
yallerdawg Aug 2018 #46
FakeNoose Aug 2018 #48
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #49
FakeNoose Aug 2018 #53
Jake Stern Aug 2018 #76
ObamaKerryDem Aug 2018 #114
Hekate Aug 2018 #50
Atticus Aug 2018 #51
The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2018 #54
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #57
WestIndianArchie Aug 2018 #55
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #58
WestIndianArchie Aug 2018 #60
Trust Buster Aug 2018 #59
handmade34 Aug 2018 #70
BamaRefugee Aug 2018 #62
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #68
Still In Wisconsin Aug 2018 #64
bitterross Aug 2018 #69
keepFocused06 Aug 2018 #71
tymorial Aug 2018 #72
pnwmom Aug 2018 #75
dalton99a Aug 2018 #85
TryLogic Aug 2018 #77
CatMor Aug 2018 #78
Lunabell Aug 2018 #80
The Genealogist Aug 2018 #82
secondwind Aug 2018 #84
onit2day Aug 2018 #86
Olafjoy Aug 2018 #87
Garrett78 Aug 2018 #88
Raster Aug 2018 #89
N_E_1 for Tennis Aug 2018 #91
whathehell Aug 2018 #92
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #93
cab67 Aug 2018 #96
cab67 Aug 2018 #97
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #99
Fresh_Start Aug 2018 #98
Nitram Aug 2018 #100
LonePirate Aug 2018 #101
EffieBlack Aug 2018 #103
Anon-C Aug 2018 #102
njhoneybadger Aug 2018 #104
True Blue American Aug 2018 #105
JCanete Aug 2018 #106
zentrum Aug 2018 #107
JeaneRaye Aug 2018 #109
jg10003 Aug 2018 #110

Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:00 PM

1. As a Vietnam Veteran,

 

it pisses me off to no end when people on this site trash a fellow Vietnam Veteran, and a POW to boot who suffered great torture at the hands of the NVA.
I sometimes wonder if I even want to be here.

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Response to john657 (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:18 PM

17. At times it makes one wonder if a soldier can carry that legacy into politics

 

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Response to john657 (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:47 PM

61. I lost my father to the Vietnam war

when I was 7 he died a week before Christmas...that being said, McCain was no friend of the Democrats

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:56 PM

66. I'm truly sorry to hear about your father.

 

Regardless of McCain's political life, he served his country honorably and deserves our respect for that.

I met him several years ago when I was visiting my now deceased comrade in arms, GGJohn, and he was a very personable man.

I will not trash a fellow Vietnam Veteran, despite my disagreements about his life in the Senate.

I wish him a peaceful passing and condolences to his family when he does move on.

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Response to john657 (Reply #1)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 06:27 PM

113. Recently, a member of my family, a Viet Nam vet, passed away.

He was a helicopter pilot, wounded in action (shot in the head while flying). He survived, attained the rank of Lt. Col, received many medals before he retired from the Army. No, he was not a POW like McCain, but in my opinion they and all other Vet Nam veterans are worthy of our honor and appreciation, faults notwithstanding.
Wouldn't deny my fellow DUers the right to their opinions about Senator McCain, and maybe my recent loss is still too fresh, but like you, john657, I too kind of wonder at times like this if I even want to be here.

Peace.

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Response to classof56 (Reply #113)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 07:48 PM

115. I joined this site because I wanted to let the members of DU

 

know that one of their members, GGJohn, had passed away from cancer, he too was a helicopter pilot, I was his door gunner, we were shot down twice, he twice was awarded the Purple Heart, I was awarded it once.

John made a career of the Army, I got out after 8 years, figured I did my duty to my country and it was time to rejoin civilian life and make a go at a business.

Anyway, like you I will not disrespect, nor disparage my fellow Vietnam Vets.


My condolences to you and your family for your loss, too many of us vets are leaving this world too early.
Peace my friend.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:01 PM

2. I agree. McCain is a decent, honorable, kind man, no matter the ideological differences.

I've seen horrid comparisons of him with some of the world's most evil murderous dictators. Shameful.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #2)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 09:14 AM

90. Do you recall his "joke" about Chelsea Clinton when she was a teenager?

He wasn't decent, honorable or any of the other attributes you've written.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #90)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:42 AM

94. I do. It was despicable

 

But that is not the whole of his life.

I certainly wouldn't want to have my whole life and being judged by some of the worst things I've said or done.

The sanctimony, judgmentalism and outright cruelty of people here is really disheartening. Democrats are supposed to be better than that.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #94)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 11:14 AM

95. Hopefully, people will not judge me on some of my worst and regret able moments.

I remember the words from the Lion King, "There is a calm surrender to the end of day-When the heat of the rolling world can be turned away-An enchanted moment, and it see me through" Hopefully the nation will be able once again have that enchanted moment that will see us through these turbulent times.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #90)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 05:14 PM

108. You're misremembering. Rush Limpballs is the one who said something about Chelsea.

If you're talking about the pig reference.

If you're talking about a joke made decades ago, and you are basing everything on one joke made 25 or 30 years ago, that's a bit harsh and a rule you wouldn't apply to "one of us." There is no one on earth who didn't make at least one serious error decades ago (if they're old enough).

You might want to consider that whole person, and compare it to other people, before you judge. Do you hold Bill Clinton's misogyny against him, even though his practices were decades ago? He certainly exhibited that many times over, as opposed to one joke. But Clinton had many sides...not just that. He did the right thing toward women, when it counted, was brilliant, a savvy politician, good with the economy, and other things.

I consider McCain a fine, decent person, despite his flaws. Yu have flaws. I have flaws. He has flaws.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #108)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 06:10 PM

112. Different joke

McCain's crack had to do with Ms. Clinton's looks and family heritage. Here's the story:

https://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/11823_Page2.html

You're entitled to your elevated opinion of McCain. However, I do not share your view in the slightest.

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Response to PJMcK (Reply #90)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 05:26 PM

111. Here you go. McCain...when it counts.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:01 PM

3. Agreed 100%.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:01 PM

4. I agree

We're better then this.

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Response to Matthew28 (Reply #4)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:39 PM

28. As do I.

When it comes to politics, I'll admit disagreements with the man that have pissed me off to no end. But I can't NOT respect the adult LIFETIME of service he's offered up to his Nation. I know the end is coming for him. Not that he's gonna read this, but I wish him Goodspeed and a peaceful and painless transition.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:08 PM

5. Thank you !

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:11 PM

6. Fact, Republicans lack empathy. Fact, Democrats have empathy.

 

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Response to juxtaposed (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:37 PM

83. Too sweeping.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:13 PM

7. It is shameful

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:13 PM

8. Shameful

to see such stuff in DU, it's really sad and appalling. I'm wondering too about the company I'm keeping. I thought we were the compassionate ones.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:14 PM

9. I've put the offensive threads on 'Ignore'

As for what some humans (sub) are negatively posting; it's their bad karma so fuck'em.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:14 PM

10. The vast majority of DUers are not doing that

 

In fact, I have primarily seen the opposite (with a few ugly exceptions).

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:15 PM

11. His vote against reauthorizing and expanding SCHIP...

 

Was beneath human dignity. Thatís remembrance, not trashing.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:16 PM

14. And his vote to save the ACA is remembrance. N/T

 

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Response to john657 (Reply #14)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:21 PM

19. He did not save the ACA.

 

His history with respect to the ACA is clear.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:22 PM

20. His vote saved ACA when Trump wanted to get rid of it.

 

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Response to john657 (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:44 PM

34. It did not save the ACA. He did not save the ACA. Nt

 

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:51 PM

38. His vote was the deciding vote to deny Trump replacing the ACA.

 

You can deny it all you want, but the fact remains that McCain's vote saved the ACA.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2017/07/28/mccain-no-vote-health-care-moment-es.cnn

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:15 PM

12. He is a fellow human being

and he is dying. Wait awhile before you dissect his life. We have to be better or we are no different from the other side.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:15 PM

13. Indeed.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:16 PM

15. All humans are imperfect. Death is inevitable. No need to take joy in it.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:17 PM

16. His statement after Helsinki deserves my respect

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:19 PM

18. The one thing that stands out for me about McCain:

He is able to admit is own failings. Even if it takes him a long time to get there, he admits his faults and mistakes. He can engage in self-reflection and seems to work at being a better person.

Isn't that what we all want to see in each other?

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:27 PM

21. I would rather people be honest than lie about their opinion of McCain. nt

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #21)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:35 PM

24. This isn't about not being honest.

 

But being honestly cruel and lying are not the only options. Sometimes it's better just not to say anything.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:42 PM

32. There surely are some who cant and wont cut him any slack and

the reasoning is valid, I suppose, though the timing is less than desirable.

However, I compare him to other republicans and as I said earlier, in that regard he is nearly a saint. He also endured something I doubt I could so I have to give him a tip of the hat, regardless.

Life IN GENERAL is not sacred, per my thread about that, and if it were we wouldnt have entire religions promoting the idea that certain people's lives are and others arent, and most religious PEOPLE do that whether their bibles or whatever text books they have do or not.

At the end of the day, this is how I will remember him:




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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:11 PM

47. Yes ... and this

 

Start at 3:45

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:49 PM

63. Thank you. That was great.

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Response to CentralMass (Reply #63)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:57 PM

67. ditto nt

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #47)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:26 PM

79. Goosebumps

I wish these were the men we had now

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Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:54 PM

65. That was a very telling moment for me, too. There were so many other ways that

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:06 PM - Edit history (1)

most of his Republican colleagues would have handled that question.

Peace to you, Senator McCain.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:48 PM

36. Sometimes not saying anything lets worse things happen down the road though.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:59 PM

42. How does trashing a dying man on his deathbed keep "worse things from happening down the road?"

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #42)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:21 PM

52. What will tiptoeing around it accomplish?

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #52)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:31 PM

56. Refraining from trashing a dying man isn't "tiptoeing around"

 

But two questions:

1. What does trash-talking an 80+ year old man in his dying days accomplish?

2. How are these attacks on Sen. McCain any different than Republicans cruelty toward Sen. Kennedy in his final days?

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:33 PM

81. I dont judge people I cant walk in the shoes of, in John's case his imprisonment

qualifies.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:34 PM

22. this is the third or fourth mccain thread today

 

can we move on?

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Response to elmac (Reply #22)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:38 PM

26. Please feel free to move on and not read, comment on or kick any McCain posts

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:44 PM

33. That always got me too, someone takes time out to tell you they dont want

to talk about what you want to talk about.

On a MESSAGE board no less

Not picking on the person who said that, it happens ALL the time.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:35 PM

23. Who among us is not flawed

 

I agree. 99.9% of his policies I do not agree with. Let's not be cruel like Republicans and conservatives. Save it for the ones who are going to be living.

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Response to Liberalhammer (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:03 PM

45. Flawd is one thing, being a Repuke is another.


Ok. I'll be relatively nice to McCain, but don't expect the same kindness for W, Trump, or Cheney.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:36 PM

25. McCain and the company we keep

Some of us want to retreat to our corners and forget that we, ourselves are complex, complicated beings and in no way can we honestly judge others free of any judgement heading our way. McCain is a decent man, moving on in his journey on his own terms. Was he perfect? No. Who among is? But to respond to a dying man with such vitriol is beneath each an every person that does so. May God bless and keep him in these final hours. Godspeed Mr. McCain.

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Response to yokbizzi (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:38 PM

27. Nicely put.

 

Welcome to DU.

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Response to yokbizzi (Reply #25)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:45 PM

35. A truly decent man would have stood up to his party in my opinion over what they tried

to do to Obama and he would not have voted yes to Gorsuch.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #35)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:16 PM

73. I seem to recall McCain defending Obama against a Proto-Trumper

During the 2008 campaign and received a metric shit ton of flack for it by right wingers.

The same McCain who defended a Muslim Gold Star family against vicious attacks by Trump.

The same McCain who broke with his party to usher in, with Russ Feingold, campaign finance reform.

The same McCain who chose to vote to stall "repeal and replace".

The same McCain who has openly and fearlessly attacked Trump.

John McCain and I don't agree on most anything but I do respect the fact that he has, especially in the last year or so of his life, stood up to his party and the Fascist in Chief.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:41 PM

29. K and r.

Thank you.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:41 PM

30. Excellent choice

Of a quote. It will pass over most heads but is perfect for this topic.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:42 PM

31. Ouch

in its truth

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:51 PM

37. I've agreed on similar posts & I will agree on this one too.

My grandfather fought in WWI. I am deeply honored to have the flag that covered his casket.

My father & uncles fought in WWII. One uncle, in the Air Force, was shot down over France. Another went on to have a long military career, fighting in the Korean war.

Anyone who served our country like McCain did, including being a POW for years & refusing to leave when he had the opportunity, will always have my respect for that service, even if I disagree with things they did in civilian life.

Excuse my language, but I honor military service, it's personal to me, & I will NOT shit all over a veteran who served our country honorably because I disagree with their politics.

/rant off

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Response to CaptainTruth (Reply #37)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:53 PM

39. Nicely put. N/T

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:56 PM

40. Thank-you for posting this. And the quote is perfect. n/t

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 07:57 PM

41. I am too

We should be better than this.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:00 PM

43. By contrast - when Trump goes....

....I will be celebrating. John McCain does not deserve to be trashed. Trump will deserve that and more.

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Response to Generic Brad (Reply #43)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:17 PM

74. The Trump funeral after party will be a hoot

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:00 PM

44. Absolutely!

But I'm also encouraged by those that are calling out the cruelty and lack of compassion that has appeared today. It's appalling but I'm glad most of us see that.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:08 PM

46. All I ask is you throw me a bone on occasion.

Blue Dog, moderate, centrist, even rancid Republican.

Just a bone on occasion.

Thank you, John McCain.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:13 PM

48. Thanks Effie I totally agree with you

Some people need to take a cold shower . . . or something.

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #48)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:17 PM

49. When Teddy Kennedy was dying, some people spoke of him just as some DUers are speaking of McCain

 

They felt justified because they truly believed Kennedy was a reprehensible person. It was sickening when they did it and itís just as sickening when we do it.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:22 PM

53. They post their garbage on DU and it's there for everyone to see

That's what bothers me. It reflects badly on all of us. I'm happy to keep my comments to myself for now.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #49)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:20 PM

76. I know people who consider themselves DEMs who trashed Ted Kennedy

Usually over a certain automobile accident.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #49)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 06:40 PM

114. Exactly! Thank you for this thread. n/t

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:19 PM

50. McCain was an imperfect man with whom I disagreed on many issues. But he was genuine ...

...in his desire to serve the country.

I am glad beyond words that Obama won the presidency, but I won't forget the decency McCain displayed when offered the opportunity to spread lies about him. He made it plain he disagreed with Obama -- he refused to demonize him.

McCain's acceptance speech at the RNC stands in stark contrast to Trump's 8 years later. At that point, it was clear the GOP had truly lost its mind, its soul, its heart. We now live a nightmare brought to us by Trump GOP.

That's it.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:19 PM

51. I have posted my view in another thread, but feel some amplification

might be in order.

I really don't object to some folks FEELING hateful towards Sen. McCain. I don't like it. I think it is corrosive and counterproductive for those who choose to spend all that energy on hate, but it is their right as individuals to choose that way of being.

But, the decision to post that vitriol here,on DU, which to a lot of the internet public REPRESENTS Democrats and progressives, is,in a sense, trespassing. The poster is not trespassing; his or her hateful message is. It is intruding into a community where the overwhelming majority do not welcome or condone it and it is contrary to what most of us consider to be---for lack of a better term---the "spirit" of the place.

We are about helping people; making the world a better place. We are about kindness and tolerance and---if an old hippie can show his age---we are about love.

Hate, in all its variations, is what we oppose. That's why we're here.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #51)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:28 PM

54. Well said.

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Response to Atticus (Reply #51)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:33 PM

57. Awesome post!

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:29 PM

55. I agree, this guy was tortured for years

He made it out alive. fuck his politics 99% of the people commenting would not have made it out alive. You have to respect him regardless.

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Response to WestIndianArchie (Reply #55)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:34 PM

58. Not only wouldn't they have made it out, they would never have risked themselves

 

in the first place.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #58)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:40 PM

60. e.g. president bone spurs

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:40 PM

59. If we cannot put politics aside and empathize with this man and his family, then we are no better

 

Than those we purport to hold in contempt.

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Response to Trust Buster (Reply #59)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:11 PM

70. well said... n/t

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:48 PM

62. Just wait until President Obama passes...(not that I ever want that to happen)...

...and the right wingers and the fundamentalists and the haters and the racists get to have THEIR SAY.
What you're seeing now is NOTHING.

And they'll be talking about a GENUINELY GOOD MAN.

I wouldn't go into a fainting spell over this myself.


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Response to BamaRefugee (Reply #62)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:58 PM

68. WE think he's a genuinely good man, but they don't

 

They think he is as reprehensible as you think McCain is. That's the point.

It's easy to be kind or at least not cruel to people we like. The challenge is to be decent to those we don't. Behaving hatefully toward people - especially in this instance - because we think someone would do the same to someone wevlike and respect is ugly and childish.

And while you may operate that way, I certainly don't determine how I treat people based on how badly others might behave.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 08:52 PM

64. I agree with you 100%, and thank you for saying this.

 

If you truly dislike John McCain, or even hate him, just keep it to yourself for now. I feel differently, I have a lot of respect for the man. You don't have to, but we're talking about a fellow human being who is dying. Have some class.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:03 PM

69. Agreed. McCain had honor when running against Obama.

 

We should all remember he was the person who said Obama was an decent family man when people called Obama everything but a nice man.

McCain remained classy and principled.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:11 PM

71. Sad to say this but unfortunately deplorableness can effect both sides

 


John McCain made some political mistakes but he had more integrity than just about 99% of the republican party other did. Do you think Mittens would have had the courage to tell his crowds of right wing loons that they were out of line for saying crazy things about President Obama. Do you think other republicans would have had the guts to speak out against bush's tax cuts and you damn sure wouldn't have seen too many republicans save Barack Obama's greatest achievement. Yes he is a bit of a war hawk but he truly is a maverick. It's truly sickening to degrade a man when he's on his death bed.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:13 PM

72. This behavior isnt that uncommon to be honest

A lot of people on here and in the world at large fancy themselves as beyond reproach because they label themselves liberals and/or progressives. It's as if that identity exempts them from the horrible aspects and behavior of humanity they are so quick to call out in others. The reality is otherwise and more often they engage in said behavior willingly and without apology. It is hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance wrapped up in a bow. It is contemptible.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:18 PM

75. This is how I want to remember him:

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #75)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:59 PM

85. +1

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:20 PM

77. Beward. Trashing McCain sounds like an effort to create divisiveness and resentment among us.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:25 PM

78. I feel the same as you Effie .....

I was surprised and disappointed at some of the hateful comments.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:32 PM

80. He's probably getting better treatment from Democrats

than from his own party.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:34 PM

82. I've not really responded about it. Here is my take

There are people who have reason to be bitter towards John McCain, and I can understand why they feel it. I personally disagree with him on much. But there have been times when he has behaved honorably, and I think his loyalty to his country through his military service cannot be denied.

As the end of his life approaches, I choose to remember his honorable moments.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:52 PM

84. Hear, hear.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 09:59 PM

86. Remember: statements of fact and history are not "bashing". Though there is a time and place for eve

 

May the holy spirit grant him peace and serenity and fill his heart with love. RIP

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:03 PM

87. Respect

The years of torture John McCain endured in Vietnam is unimaginable. He refused to be released before other POWs when it was offered. His moment with the crazy lady at the campaign event.
His thumbs down at the ACA vote and the look on McConnellís face. How pissed that vote made ofputin.
Godspeed John McCain

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Aug 24, 2018, 10:11 PM

88. My issue with McCain isn't really about McCain.

Republicans have successfully moved the Overton Window rightward over the last several decades. This has resulted in acceptance of an ever-increasing right wing extremism. Extremism becomes mainstream. Meanwhile, McCain is considered the epitome of a "moderate." In a sane world, that would be utterly absurd. The same goes for Susan Collins, John Kasich and other anti-Trump Republicans. Like McCain, these are people who hold policy positions that are cruel and destructive.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 06:42 AM

89. I disagreed profoundly with some of Senator McCain's politics...

...but I have never once doubted his honor and his love for this Country. Never.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:05 AM

91. Agreed, Effie...

I donít agree with a lot of peopleís politics. We do not have to agree to be civil to each other.

Senator McCain served this country to the best of his ability and probably to the best of his conscience. He served in the Military to protect our way of life without regard for his own life. That alone deserves our heartfelt appreciation.

How many of us here can say that they, regardless of political beliefs, served with the same passion?

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:15 AM

92. Thank you. I agree completely

This may be one of the few things upon which we agree.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #92)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 10:38 AM

93. Common ground is ALWAYS possible ...

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)


Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 11:42 AM

97. My father was captured in Vietnam.

Last edited Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:23 PM - Edit history (1)

It was pre-Gulf of Tonkin, and he never spoke of it, so I really donít know what happened. But it left me with an appreciation, if not an understanding, of the Vietnam experience.

(My father was evidently part of a surveillance mission that went bad.)

There is much about McCainís record that I disagree with. He said unnecessarily unkind things about President Obama during his administration, and we can lay Sarah Palinís national presence at his feet. But he also did some good things - his ACA vote last year (regardless of his motivation) and his willingness to defend Obamaís character during the 2008 campaign come to mind. Most people in the end have a mixture of good and bad in their lives; if you include his heroism during his military service, McCain has earned much respect as he faces the next stage in his existence.

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Response to cab67 (Reply #97)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 01:21 PM

99. Yes.

 

We also have no idea what's now going on in his head and heart, what he's coming to terms with, how he's reconciling his good and bad as he reaches this point.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 12:03 PM

98. Totally agree

could be partially the fault of those who will stop at nothing to divide us

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 01:59 PM

100. I'm going to refrain from writing anything at all about McCain, because I can't in good

conscience write anything nice about him.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:06 PM

101. Honor him for his service and sacrifices in Vietnam. Criticize him for his record in Congress.

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Response to LonePirate (Reply #101)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:10 PM

103. I have no problem with people criticizing his

 

But the ugly personal attacks on him over the past couple of days are completely uncalled for.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:08 PM

102. Kick and Rec!

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:20 PM

104. Preach it Effie

We don't have to spit on someone when they're laying in their deathbed

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:21 PM

105. Thank you, Effie Black!

I agree.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 02:36 PM

106. While I'd prefer a circumspect and respectful tone, poeple have a right to not like him

 


and to find his history of supporting draconian and deadly republican policies, vile. Who do we reserve that hatred for, and who do we decide is truly good at heart and thus not dereving of the vitriol?


That said, I personally believe we should look for the humanity in everybody, and I'm not a big believer in some sort of intrinsic evil. There is sociopathy, but even that's still not evil, nor is it a choice. McCain wasn't a sociopath, so hopefully he had a conscience that weighed on him...heavily. He was certainly a mixed bag.

I would definitely prefer we didn't dance on the graves of our enemies, and that not just as a matter of presentation, but as a matter of maintaining our empathy. I like it when we are vastly distinguishable from the republican base in that way, but in the scheme of things, without some context as to why Mccain in particular, deserves more respect than others might, I'm not so sure. Not that you are implying that, but you didn't make a general statement about how we speak of the dead, you made one about how we speak of McCain.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 03:58 PM

107. McCain's votes on

...policies have been almost universally atrocious, costing thousands of people their welfare and/or their lives.

Important to look at a powerful person's life--not the convention of hagiography at death.

Ironically, Orwell would definitely advocate telling the public truth about someone's life.

Hasn't this country learned anything about what it means to ignore the truth of history?



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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 05:24 PM

109. Did I miss something?

Who's trashing McCain? I haven't seen anything along those lines.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Sat Aug 25, 2018, 05:26 PM

110. McCain is a reminder that it is possible to disagree without being disagreeable

He is the last of a dyeing breed; a conservative I can respect even though I disagree with his political positions.

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