Invitation from Conservative Underground

[grumpyduck]

Okay, before you report me and insist this be deleted, please read on.

As I said in another post, I lurk over at CU now and then, mostly to see how low they will go to bash DUers. A few times I've actually seen an argument in defense of a specific position, but mostly their comments seem to be personal (what idiots we are) instead of directed at the issue involved. Please read on.

Now they have issued an invitation for us to come over and discuss stuff. As the fellow who issued the invitation put it, "to have some fun." The responses to his invitation have been... okay, I'll say it... pretty insulting to us: personal put-downs instead of comments on how we disagree or how an exchange of ideas might be useful. Which got me to thinking.

Granted DU and CU are both chat rooms, i.e., places to vent and commisserate with like-minded folks from the privacy of a username. I don't have a clue what would constitute a "serious political discussion forum," but neither one of them seem to be one. What IS noticeable is that nowadays people (and I see it here too) seem to be indulging in a lot of personal put-downs and spitball-throwing instead of addressing the issues involved. "If you don't agree with me, you're a fucking asshole" and such. Maybe it's just easier to call someone a moron instead of responding to what he/she said.

There's a huge difference between saying that somebody's specific comment was galaxy-class beyond-fucking-shitbrained-stupid, and calling that individual, personally, a fucking asshole. One addreses the comment and the other addresses the person.

Over the past few years, and especially over the past year and a half, a lot of people seem to have lost the ability to tell the difference.

Reminds me of name-calling back in grammar school. I thought I had left that behind.

[Ellipsis]

1. FUCK CU.

....and this trolling Labor Day, I got nothing better to do, thread.





IBTL

[struggle4progress]

2. Please tell them I think they are stinkie dumb poopie heads

[LuvLoogie]

3. To any lurking CU members: if you voted for Trump...

Fuck Right Off.

[highplainsdem]

4. I don't go into sewers, or recommend that anyone else go there.

[mitch96]

31. "I don't go into sewers"

Well I went to a gun centric sewer the other day, just to take the pulse.. Well what do you know they are quoting and adding links to the DU!! Of course to make fun of us "libatards" and PROVE how wrong we are.... And yes they are talking civil war... Just look at the crazy liberal that shot up that good republican steve scalice. Bless their hearts...

m

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. Look deeper, what they are doing is profiling us and preparing for a physical war against us

individually.

Be very careful.

[Bradical79]

5. Disagree

"Over the past few years, and especially over the past year and a half, a lot of people seem to have lost the ability to tell the difference."

No, a lot of conservatives finally showed just how awful they really are. I don't know most of their internal thought processes, but when they say and support the things they do, that's what I'm going to judge them by. The person is tied with what they say and do.

There is no polite honest debate with someone who supports white supremecy and other outright bigoted movements. They are not otherwise good people with a simple difference of opinion. Their positions come from a place of dishonesty and deliberate cruelty.

Edit: If they really consider themselves a good person, then they can do things a good person would do, like stand up to a man who is destroying families. Stand up for disadvantaged people being treated poorly. Don't cheer on the extrajudicial murders of black people. Recognize the humanity of LGBTQ people. Love others as you would like yourselves to be loved, rather than look down on others for being born different.

What you say and do is a reflection of at least part of you. They don't have to be bad people, that's just the path they've chosen for themselves. At any point they can choose to be decent. Until then though, I'm not going to coddle them with false niceties and pretend their "opinions" have merit.

[beachbum bob]

6. If any conservative could do a reasoned debate based on critical thinking, they

would not be a conservative in the first place. I took on the republicans and libertarians in the old political crossfire forum before it was shut down and believe me, I never lost a debate as soon the opposition spiraled into personal attacks. They simply can not handle facts or reality, period. Fuck them. My fun is working to take back our country.

[smirkymonkey]

67. +1000

Well said. I agree completely.

[demmiblue]

7. Unrec.

Why are you trying to drive traffic to that cesspool?

[grumpyduck]

14. I am not trying to drive traffic threre

I am commenting on this trend of insulting people instead of responding to what they said.

[Ellipsis]

22. Well you are.

[demmiblue]

47. Yep.

Not the first time, either (not to mention the multiple hear-me-out/whataboutism threads).

[obamanut2012]

78. Yes, you are

[lark]

8. Haven't been on CU, but have seen responses on some other sites and they are horrendous.

My husband reads Drudge to see what the other side is saying and shows me some of the stuff. It's hair singeing horrible, almost exclusively! When fairly moderate folks respond, they get absolutely killed and it's taken very personally. I tell him I won't pollute my life with their hate and asked him months go to not share the sludge with me. Besides the whole title is a lie, the party of drumpf isn't conservative, it's activity oligarchs and russia repugs only - populated by the most ignorant, racist and horrible people in America.

No thanks!!

[flyingfysh]

35. It's not just discussion sites

I often take a look at gocomics.com (a site showing lots of current comic strips), and people can leave comments about strips.

As soon as some strip is the least bit political or anti-Trump, idiots jump in and declare that they are never going to look at that horrible comic strip again, and why should humor strips become political. An example is "Pearls before Swine', where a rat became president. I've seen these comments directed at several strips. Fortunately, most of the comments there seem to come from sensible people.

[Grasswire2]

9. Remember ANDY STEPHENSON. Period. nt

[Ellipsis]

12. Exactly. n/t

[Grasswire2]

17. If you don't know who Andy Stephenson was, look it up. nt

[eleny]

41. +1

[byronius]

76. +1000

[DetlefK]

10. Won't work. For a simple reason.

Do you want to know why you can't convince a Flat-Earther that Earth is not flat?

Because he reserves the right to decide before, during and after the debate what kind of evidence is real and what has been faked by the evil conspiracy.

And if you don't grant him that power to unilaterally introduce and dismiss evidence, he will simply walk away from the discussion.

[Oneironaut]

58. Exactly. Flat earthers who aren't just trolling are legitimately some of the dumbest people on earth

I feel like even debating them is low-hanging fruit, as the average person would not be swayed by their arguments. They follow the normal “never-ending conspiracy” model of CTers, where any holes in the conspiracy can be explained by ad-hoc inventing further explanations of those holes in the theory.

I seriously doubt most of these people are serious. I think most of them get a kick out of trolling with the worst logic possible.

Trumpists, on the other hand, are dangerous. They dig their claws into unsuspecting people. Their arguments must be actively refuted, or they will control the narrative.

[ProudLib72]

11. Why in the name of all that is holy would anyone from DU want to visit there

let alone "join them in discussion"?

Here's what I say to them:

[Grasswire2]

18. Hooray for the original MORAN!

Remember the Freeper porta potty war?

Actually, the Freepers are far more interesting if you want to observe RWNJ.

[ProudLib72]

43. This one is funny, too

[RhodeIslandOne]

13. Fuck them n/m

[ismnotwasm]

15. They're strange brew

Everything they are is because of DU. Reactionary and biased yes, also obsessive and strange. At this point in time there is nothing to debate. There are lines in the sand..

You either support human rights or you do not.
You either believe in choice for women or you do not.
And even as much as we fight about methods here, you either believe in universal healthcare or you do not.
You either defend/support/promote bigotry or you do not.
You either believe in a system of fair taxation or you do not (this one, like healthcare could be argued amoung the left because of the complexity, but I’d rather listen to Democrats than any conservative any day)
You either believe in credible science, or you do not. We have our share on the left who love them some woo woo bullshit, but at least we all want to salvage what’s left of the environment.

There’s a long list, and enough diversity amount Democrats to make the thought of debating conservatives laughable. Many of them have morphed into basic libertarians without realizing it, which is sadly funny.

[Skidmore]

21. +1 nt

[LakeArenal]

30. Here here!! I already know their arguments.

I don’t want to change any of them. I like them out in the open for everyone to see.

But I have been bullied on DU. But I always assume only a troll would tell me I’m crazy or need professional help on DU. Some of them even have high post numbers.

That’s what I like about DU. Critical thinkers who recognize when an opinion is criticized by personality and not content.

[moriah]

48. The choice part is what a lot of people don't understand.

Abortion is a notoriously sticky wicket, because so many people have had miscarriages/other things that give them personal reasons they might think it's wrong.

Often, with them, I discuss the difficulties inherent in no choice -- starting with the patently absurd things certain pro-life legislation would really require (if you're going to define fertilized eggs as people deserving their mortal remains treated with ritual respect, we go back to burying all menstrual flow in sexually active women -- and since we can't know who is sexually active, gotta be for everyone, etc), then go to the more likely scenario... grieving families forced to undergo inquests to ensure a miscarriage wasn't induced.

Impracticality of not allowing a serious mental health exemption even after viability is possible, and how the attempts to pass federal legislation to limit potentially viable pregnancies, when read closely, forbid a Cesarean or induction unless the woman's life or the child's life was in danger regardless of if they were 36+ weeks and the intent was for a live delivery. In other words, making most non-spontaneous deliveries "illegal abortion" even if the child was always intended to survive, because they are done when the mom's health, not life, is at issue.

I'll not challenge whatever has given them a personal view about metaphysics of life, but definitely challenge how one can impose that view on others without unintended consequences.

Then I explain that I'm pro-CHOICE -- I respect their choice for themselves, but I can't see forcing the decision either way by others as being correct. And because I feel the financial difficulties with unexpected parenthood are a way of forcing the decision for some who would rather make another choice, I feel fixing that financial coercion is a step towards free choice for women.

[The Wielding Truth]

54. Yes.

[jpak]

16. CU and Trrumpers can ESAD

[Tommy_Carcetti]

19. Fuck those psychopaths.

No seriously.

They’re psychopaths with no lives other than to devote an entire internet message board for the only purpose of following another internet message board.

That’s about the most pathetic, sad sack shit behavior that you could imagine.

[onethatcares]

20. never been there, don't plan to go

because I've yet to have a conservative discuss anything based on fact.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. What's your point? CU exists to whine about, and insult , DU

(unlike, say, Free Republic, which does have an independent purpose, even if it's one we disagree with). There's nothing to be gained by considering their opinions or posts.

It's a false equivalency to class DU in with CU as "not a serious political discussion forum". We are serious, although partisan. They are just a place to say "we hate DU" in a variety of ways.

[highplainsdem]

24. +1,000,000

[Skidmore]

25. This was not a sincere invitation

but a request to offer ourselves for abuse:

As the fellow who issued the invitation put it, "to have some fun." The responses to his invitation have been... okay, I'll say it... pretty insulting to us: personal put-downs instead of comments on how we disagree or how an exchange of ideas might be useful. Which got me to thinking.

There was an attempt to do that here with a mixed board, but it devolved into typical conservative ugliness and all but a few stalwart liberals still venture there. I am not in agreement with giving them a foot in here either. Conservatives right now do not discuss. They bully.

[mitch96]

32. "not a sincere invitation"

Agree, They need a target... something or some one to hit after their perceived attack by liberals.. Send out a birddog to flush out the liberals so they have a target to practice on... Actions speak louder than words.. What have they done in the past? Stick out your head and I bet it's gonna get wacked...
m

[smirkymonkey]

68. +1000

This!

[NRaleighLiberal]

26. Nope. Facts and truth have a strong liberal bias.

[roamer65]

27. Wow. How original...LMAO.

Actually the correct name for it should be Fascist Underground.

[Sherman A1]

28. Please extend my thanks for the invitation

However, I respectfully decline.

[EricMaundry]

29. I have some socks I need to wash

[LAS14]

33. Gee. After several days of celebrating civility in the person..

... of John McCain, you get not a single response in support of your idea to explore dialogue. I'm not totally sure of your point in the OP, but I do, minimally, think we ought to know the "enemy" and think you're doing the right thing in visiting CU now and again. I think I'll check it out. How would I find that particular post?

[grumpyduck]

44. Thank you for your thoughtful reply

Actually, I wasn't suggesting that we acept the invitation. I agree with those above who feel it wouldn't work - that it would just result in bashing and spitball-dodging - and I'm basing that on the responses I saw there to the invitation. Maybe I'm wrong.

My point in the OP was just to comment on how low many of us have gone in resorting to name-calling. Sure it's easier than taking the time to respond in a civilized manner (or to actally research the issue at hand and THEN respond), but it does get tiresome to see so much of it over the last couple of years. Yes I know it's a factor of anger, but it's still tiresome.

As far as why visit there... well... military officers study "the enemy" to understand how they do things and try to outmaneuver them. Football teams study the opposition, and so do people in other sports. Prizefighters and chess players do it. Even businesses study the competition. So there are lots of precedents to show that it's not heretical to visit there now and then. I've seen a couple of good arguments for or against an issue; I didn't agree with them, but at least I saw someone's viewpoint without any name-calling.

You can find the invitation in the forum list under Best/Worst of DU/Discussionist.

[defacto7]

50. I agree with your assessment of name-calling from our side.

It just creates entertainment for them, more laughs. But as far as engaging in discussion over there... to ignore them is more reasonable.

[ChazII]

73. RightNation is the place

I visit it I want to see the other side.

[obamanut2012]

80. Your reply is such a shocker

Not.

[ooky]

34. Every conservative site I have viewed is another den of lies and a waste of my time

as far as trying to find an intelligent discussion. Anyone who posts a liberal position draws nothing but name calling and stupid remarks like "Hildabeast" and "Obozo" and "Uranium One" nonsense. It's virtually impossible to have an intelligent debate with any of them so I gave up and don't go there.

[Adrahil]

36. Yeah, I've tried arguing facts with Conservatives....

They simply ignore facts that contradict their positions. Generally speaking, they are outcome-based thinkers. They decide the answer, then construct an argument to support the facts.

In addition, we don't share basic values. I value human dignity, and I don;t think anyone, not even useless fucks, should starve to death or die for lack of access to essential health care services. They'd just assume let them die, even if they will not say so publicly.

[LAS14]

37. At least you gave it a try.

Do any of you know how to find a clip of Sarah Silverman talking to some right-wing person? He started out very aggressive but they ended up conversing? I only heard about it. I didn't hear it. I'd like to find out what actually happened.

tia
las

[LAS14]

38. So let's just stop with lumping all conservatives together. That kind...

... of categorizing gets us nowhere. We should be better than that.

Which is not, of course, to say that there aren't many (most?) conservatives who fit the descriptions in this thread.

[FSogol]

52. So even if they aren't the "we are the master race" type then they are still the "the school

free lunch program is evil" type. Pass. Their entire philosophy is the search for justification of selfishness. I'd rather piss down their throats than hear their rationalizations of evil.

[obamanut2012]

81. yawn

[LAS14]

82. So you, a member of the group that fights stereotyping, find this boring? Why? nt

[Buns_of_Fire]

39. "There's gonna be a rumble tonight..."

[jalan48]

40. If they have the same type of alert process as we do, I'd be gone the first day.

[Dave Starsky]

42. As labor relations expert Cyrus Stuart Ching once said...

‘What’s the sense of wrestling with a pig? You both get all over muddy . . . and the pig likes it."

(This quote is often attributed to Abraham Lincoln, George Bernard Shaw, Samuel Clemens, and others. But, apparently, the best evidence shows that Ching was actually the one who said this, and the first appearance of this (somewhat older) adage in this form was attributed to him in 1946.)

[ornotna]

45. No thanks

This idea of theirs is galaxy-class beyond-fucking-shitbrained-stupid.

[defacto7]

46. It would be like having a discussion with a brick,

or an argument with a recorded message. I don't even have the desire to insult them.

Ignore, that's all. We have reality to discuss here.

[msongs]

49. has it been hijacked by fake news from twitter? nt

[roamer65]

53. Conservativism is a mental disease.

Fuck them.

[yewberry]

55. No. I posted there once, I think, & never went back.

It was the day Andy died.

Why would I want to dialogue with people who literally conspired to harass a dying man? Fuck them.They're beneath contempt and certainly beneath me.

[Hekate]

64. Thank you. This needs to be repeated from time to time as necessary. In memoriam, Andy Stephenson

[Leith]

56. I Was a Regular Poster on Discussionist for More Than a Year

I stopped when DU got hacked.

The downtime made me realize that I was much better off not bothering with the type of so-called conservatives that stink up message boards. They do nothing but repeat lies and insult anyone who disagrees with their talking points.

Life is too short to give any more of my precious time to cultists. Let them stew in the cesspool of their own making.

[Turbineguy]

57. I guess the question is.....

Are they looking to find common ground upon which to base an understanding or are they just doing their masters' bidding to keep and or worsen the divide?

By some not so strange coincidence the "conservatives" have become to ones to vandalize American society and the government, while the liberals have been trying to keep things functioning.

It's like the Visgoths were the conservatives of the Roman Empire.

[MrScorpio]

59. Just in case you didn't know this...

But those caver motherfuckers have always been nothing more than internet trolls. They want attention and nothing more, just like misbehaving children who resort to craving negative reinforcement because they can.

There's absolutely nothing to gain from giving them any consideration whatsoever.

It's best to just ignore them and allow them the entitlement of their own hateful delusions.

[Drahthaardogs]

60. Their site sucks. The most popular board is the one that

Is from DU. Comments consist of DUmmies and other such 8th grade name calling.

They have no ideas. It's sorry. I would be more than happy to point out the error of their Neanderthal brains' workings, but...there would be no debate, only bane calling.

[lpbk2713]

61. BWAHAHAHA ... CU is a virtual lightweight.

They are an insignificant pissant. They are so far out in the wilderness Alexa doesn't even track them.

Link: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/conservativeunderground.com


DU on the other hand by comparison: https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/democraticunderground.com

[tavernier]

62. Sadly, it's far too late to attempt an intelligent discussion

with them because their programing has been complete, thanks to Murdock and company. They no longer have the ability to think for themselves. A few strong willed people do eventually figure out what has been done to them, and their eyes open suddenly and they are aghast at how easily they were suckered, but that usually happens spontaneously to the more intelligent ones, not because of any debate or influence from others.

[dumbcat]

63. I think you have seen the confirmation to your observation

Sadly, the vast majority of people that post on boards like this do not have the intellectual ability to carry on a real debate or civil discussion. I've seen it on political boards on both sides, technical forums, economic forums, collectors forums, and pretty much all others.

Such is the direction we as a society are moving. The well thought out essay, outlined and then written in cursive on real paper is a relic of the past. Real arguments cannot take place in 140 characters of abbreviations typed with the thumbs. Name calling fits that medium better. I don't see things getting any better.

[Hekate]

65. I'm busy today: I've got a sock stuck in my dryer vent that needs extracting. nt

[Hortensis]

66. GrumpyDuck, I reject the false equalization your post

makes between our behavior and the level of nastiness at that other place. Perhaps it was unintended. But in any case, I'll not be going there.

[SkyDancer]

69. Ok, I have a question for these "conservatives".

I'd like to know how you possibly support an ideology that is literally a gigantic unbroken circle.

Let's examine this.

Minimum wage.

You're against it. You're also against a living wage too. How do you explain your wanting of people to remain on Government assistance with low wages seeing as how you're against such a thing to begin with? By raising wages across the board to $15/hr you'd effectively bring people off welfare and turn them into consumers. Those same consumers who drive the economy. More purchasing power from consumers results in higher profits for corporations as Costco well knows this strategy because their business model is based off it. Unlike Walmart, Costco has turned its employees into shoppers.

The reality is this-- not everyone can afford to go to college and some don't have the grades to get into a 4 year school. Others don't have the time because they're trying to raise their kids which costs money, so jobs are needed to paid for expenses like childcare, food, rent. And before you say "I worked and went to school!", name 5 single mom's are doing this because you can't. Working FT and going to school, while raising kids? Ya, not reality unless you'd like DCFS to come pay a visit.

I'd love to hear the logic of all this. Because not only has it not worked, it isn't working. Wages have been stagnant across the board for years.

So let's hear the Republican plan to eliminate poverty and homelessness in this country because we never do.

[mountain grammy]

70. Nah, they're running our government into the ground right now.

I know how bad they are and don't care to waste time debating them. Let's change the government, then we'll talk.

But you go right ahead.. in fact, maybe you belong there. Bye!

[maxrandb]

71. So, after spending the past 40 years demonizing and dehumanizing

Democrats, progressives, liberals and anyone to the left of Musilinni, these fucktwits want to complain that we're being mean to them??

They can all go fuck their racist selves with a First Edition hard cover copy of Atlas Shrugged.

This is like hitting your dog accross the snout with a rolled up newspaper every day for the dogs entire life, and then being upset and surprised when the dog bites your face off.

[KWR65]

72. I've better things to do then argue with racists.

[nini]

74. I've cut off family members for less than that shit that's over there

Why go find more nazi enablers to have to deal with?

[Different Drummer]

75. They definitely lurk over here, if not outright troll.

I was over there a few minutes ago and found the OP from this thread.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142149516

[obamanut2012]

77. They helped kill Andy Stephenson

They have doxxed DUers over the years and contacted employers.

Fuck them, fuck "crossing the aisle," and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[TheBlackAdder]

79. Anyone who watches FOX News, believes in Trickle-Down Economics & doesn't reject Putin is an idiot.

[Lint Head]

83. Hmmmmmmm. This tactic has been used for years to

infiltrate Democratic Underground. The other day I noticed someone has figured out a way to get Fox content on to the Democratic Underground. I called it out without getting personal.
But one thing is for sure if a bigoted racist who voted for and supports a bigoted racist sexual predator who loves the murderer Vladimir Putin more than this country my attitude is, if they don't agree with me, they are fucking assholes. It makes it easier to call someone a moron because you will never convince them of anything. And it's an exercise in futility to even try to.

[JHan]

84. They're a sad strange bunch.

just took a peek over there ( for only the second time in my life) and they remain poor conversationalists.

so it's No from me.

[DangerousRhythm]

85. ...who?

No, really, I've never even heard of them.

No thanks.

[JHan]

86. +++

[Vinnie From Indy]

87. What's the point?

At this point in time, any person still calling themselves a conservative and a Trump supporter are beyond hope. They are cultists and stupid beyond measure.

[JHB]

88. If I want to scratch fleas, I'll get a pet

US:

Global Rank 19,375 354
Rank in United States 3,727


Them:
Global rank 3,331,053
Rank in United States (too small to be worth the pixels to show it)

per
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/

[LanternWaste]

89. I feel bad for those little guys.

They've convinced themselves they're both relevant and insightful, but they are to conversation and discourse what the fictional band Spinal Tap is to surgery. And they cannot grasp that.

I'd go so far as to wonder how they function without wandering into traffic, except that I hold no wonder for them; merely the pity one feels for what the low hanging, rotted fruit might have been under better circumstances.

Bless their hearts.

That said, never expect rational thought from rotted fruit. Bruised apples (and egos) filled with worms (and intolerance) are not the most engaging people to talk with, and their opinions are less so.

[Codeine]

90. They can eat my ass.

Unless they like ass, in which case no ass for them!

[Blue_Tires]

91. Thanks, but I think I'll pass