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Horse with no Name

(33,956 posts)
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:49 PM Sep 2018

The most plausible story regarding the neighborhood killer cop

She was tired. She went home. Lots of noise in the apartment above. She went upstairs, beat on his door and then proceeded to lose her shit and shot him.
That sounds more like what happened than the crap they are trying to spin.

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The most plausible story regarding the neighborhood killer cop (Original Post) Horse with no Name Sep 2018 OP
It doesn't explain the witness statement of her shouting "Open the door!" nt Laffy Kat Sep 2018 #1
That is damning as hell Johnny2X2X Sep 2018 #12
Maybe she didn't want to have to shoot him through the door. (n/t) Iggo Sep 2018 #28
This does. TheBlackAdder Sep 2018 #35
So she had a room-mate/rent mate? Explains the "open the door" if she had mistaken the apartment. haele Sep 2018 #80
No reports of her having a room mate. brush Sep 2018 #85
Yeah, it might. She screamed, he opened the door, pnwmom Sep 2018 #57
That's not really plausible at all. Captain Stern Sep 2018 #2
Exactly. Some of the conspiracy theories are whacko Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #3
The problem with that is it doesn't add up based on reporting mythology Sep 2018 #9
Keep in mind this about the reports of the "open up" Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #15
Eyewitnesses do make things up but so do Defendants when facing murder charges MaryMagdaline Sep 2018 #24
And thus I generally look to verifiable physical facts Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #26
But you discount witness reports? Laffy Kat Sep 2018 #61
Do you understand how the law works? Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #62
The banging on the door and yelling "let me in, let me in", is the key to the whole thing. brush Sep 2018 #13
See my above response Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #16
Why are you so eager to discount witness accounts? When it first happened the dead man's... brush Sep 2018 #18
Thin Blue Line. /nt tonedevil Sep 2018 #60
+100 Sneederbunk Sep 2018 #37
No normal person would be allowed to roam around the crime scene after they killed someone...... USALiberal Sep 2018 #27
If it's true that the cop Hav Sep 2018 #7
If there were excessive noise malaise Sep 2018 #14
Parked on his floor? What kind of apartment building has parking on same floor LakeSuperiorView Sep 2018 #34
This complex does have multistory parking facilities csziggy Sep 2018 #40
The parking garage does not appear to be connected (other than at street level). LakeSuperiorView Sep 2018 #42
It's hard to tell from the only views you can get on Google Street View csziggy Sep 2018 #43
Like I said, there does not appear to be any parking on the levels where the apartments are. LakeSuperiorView Sep 2018 #46
Evidently, The kind of apartment building that they lived in. Captain Stern Sep 2018 #64
Problem is, Google maps shows no evidence that the parking structure is attached. LakeSuperiorView Sep 2018 #74
with apartments, excessive noise can be footsteps, just regular walking. Apartments are build like Demovictory9 Sep 2018 #39
I don't think excessive noise would have had anything to do with it. Calista241 Sep 2018 #70
As I understand it the noise complaints were through the management office and nothing to do GemDigger Sep 2018 #83
Are we sure she didn't know him? pnwmom Sep 2018 #58
Disagree Completely. n/t MicaelS Sep 2018 #4
Not enough info yet but it could be a possible scenario Hav Sep 2018 #5
He was alone in the apt and it was dark WhiteTara Sep 2018 #6
See Post #21. fleur-de-lisa Sep 2018 #22
Maybe she angry about the noise form the previous night exboyfil Sep 2018 #29
Unreliable witness says it was dark. (n/t) Iggo Sep 2018 #78
We may have to wait until the facts come out at trial or hearing. Sneederbunk Sep 2018 #8
Thanks. elleng Sep 2018 #10
I suspect the true answer has some sort of twist we aren't expecting qazplm135 Sep 2018 #11
Ok jberryhill Sep 2018 #76
well qazplm135 Sep 2018 #86
Come On, Give Her Some Time LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #17
Seems Very Simple To Me LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #19
I've got a hammer and the world's nothin' but nails. Iggo Sep 2018 #81
Sounds like a possibility IF the claim about the noise complaints turn out to be true. nt tblue37 Sep 2018 #20
"there were noise complaints from the immediate downstairs neighbors" fleur-de-lisa Sep 2018 #21
+1. I've been waiting for CNN to post that video! nt ecstatic Sep 2018 #31
How does officer make noise complaints that day if on duty for 15 hours? Sneederbunk Sep 2018 #38
If she worked 12-15 hours that day, who made those noise complaints? csziggy Sep 2018 #49
thats it mshasta Sep 2018 #23
There is no plausible story...she murdered him..because she knew more than likely HipChick Sep 2018 #25
Yep, in cold blood. dalton99a Sep 2018 #48
Yep, just as she shot the other guy in her other shooting incident. Never should have been on the... brush Sep 2018 #68
Yep. Jean's family attorney said a downstairs neighbor had filed noise complaints against him ecstatic Sep 2018 #30
I buy her story going to the wrong apartment. joshcryer Sep 2018 #32
The doors in that complex can not be left ajar. They close automatically as a safety measure. Cattledog Sep 2018 #33
Don't they also have lighted apartment numbers right beside the doors? displacedtexan Sep 2018 #36
That makes sense. She was probably intoxicated as well to have parked on the wrong... brush Sep 2018 #69
Nobody yells "Open up" at an open door. Iggo Sep 2018 #82
Please stop this. This was an accidental shooting. She will have a trial to determine guilt. KWR65 Sep 2018 #41
Wow, you call this just a "mistake"????? imagine...... USALiberal Sep 2018 #44
That would be a mistake also. There have been people that have had accidental shootings also. KWR65 Sep 2018 #45
And you honestly think the citizen would have the same treatment? Nt USALiberal Sep 2018 #47
Should a trained police officer be making 'mistakes' like this? leftstreet Sep 2018 #50
She is a human being that made a mistake. Have you ever made a mistake? KWR65 Sep 2018 #51
Put food in an oven once, forgot to turn it on. No one died n/t leftstreet Sep 2018 #52
That's why sane people don't carry guns, because they know ecstatic Sep 2018 #56
Killing an unarmed person in their own apartment is more than a "mistake". nt Laffy Kat Sep 2018 #72
Trained doctors and medical staff make mistakes that kill 250,000 a year Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #66
In operating rooms, not at a mall leftstreet Sep 2018 #77
And humans still do. And she should and will pay for it Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #79
Let me see if I can explain this for you. moriah Sep 2018 #53
+1, the professionals LEO's even hate the lack of accountability !! Jus no system to weed the bad .. uponit7771 Sep 2018 #55
Nobody knows it was accidental. All we know are her shifting stories, pnwmom Sep 2018 #59
You get into a car accident and it is your fault...you will be charged if you were reckless... Demsrule86 Sep 2018 #63
Manslaughter, not murder Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #67
Not in Texas...murder. There was intent. Demsrule86 Sep 2018 #73
There is no proof of that other than in your mind Lee-Lee Sep 2018 #75
Careful with the insults...witness accounts she shouted open the door...noise issues. Demsrule86 Sep 2018 #87
It's accidental when you aim a loaded gun at a guy's chest, pull the trigger and kill him? DFW Sep 2018 #65
Police officers have really crazy hours Beakybird Sep 2018 #54
Waiting for more facts....when there is a historical systematic murdering of unarmed black men HipChick Sep 2018 #71
She also could have been drunk. Sounds like R B Garr Sep 2018 #84

TheBlackAdder

(28,183 posts)
35. This does.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:43 PM
Sep 2018

.

“The only connection we have been able to make is that she was his immediate downstairs neighbor,” Meritt said. “And there were noise complaints from the immediate downstairs neighbors about whoever was upstairs, and that would have been Botham. In fact, there were noise complaints that very day about upstairs activity in Botham’s apartment. Botham received a phone call about noise coming from his apartment from the downstairs neighbor.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/attorney-reveals-potential-link-dallas-cop-innocent-man-gunned-apartment/

.

haele

(12,647 posts)
80. So she had a room-mate/rent mate? Explains the "open the door" if she had mistaken the apartment.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 10:45 AM
Sep 2018

But still doesn't explain why her first reaction was to shoot him.

Haele

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
57. Yeah, it might. She screamed, he opened the door,
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 01:54 AM
Sep 2018

she started complaining and then when he didn't respond to her liking, she shot him.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
2. That's not really plausible at all.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:55 PM
Sep 2018

That story doesn't account for why she parked her car on the victim's floor, rather than her own floor.

That story doesn't account for why there would be "excessive noise" coming from the victim's apartment (he was home alone). And nobody else has claimed there was "excessive noise" coming from the victim's apartment.

The most plausible explanation is that the cop just, plain, fucked up.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
3. Exactly. Some of the conspiracy theories are whacko
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:57 PM
Sep 2018

She came home, possibly exhausted and maybe distracted as well by the phone or something, parked on the wrong floor and made some tragic and criminal mistakes.

I don’t know why so many people here are intent to go all Alex Jones conspiracy theory on this and invent ways it had to be premeditated.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
9. The problem with that is it doesn't add up based on reporting
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:05 PM
Sep 2018

Her claim of confusion and that's why she was yelling open up. If she lived alone, who did she think was going to answer? Also if she was yelling to open up, how does that square with her claim the door was ajar?

How did she not notice the bright red doormat?

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
15. Keep in mind this about the reports of the "open up"
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:11 PM
Sep 2018

Media reporting of supposed “eyewitness” accounts immediately after an event are very, very often unreliable. The media doesn’t do any work to determine credibility and people are often mistaken and also more often than you may think just make things up- either because they want the attention or because they want to change the story.

As an example the investigators from the DOJ looking into the Micheal Brown case found a whole lot of supposed witnesses who admitted to making it up, claiming they saw things only to alter say they were just repeating what they had heard and claiming to have seen it, or who were adamant they saw things that never happened.

Don’t put much faith in random media eyewitness claims in the immediate aftermath of a high profile event.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
26. And thus I generally look to verifiable physical facts
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:27 PM
Sep 2018

The narrative that most closely matches them is most likely the truth.

Laffy Kat

(16,377 posts)
61. But you discount witness reports?
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 02:43 AM
Sep 2018

Facts: 1) White cop with photos of her posing with family or friends who are displaying obvious White Power signs; 2) White cop changes her story several times; 3) Dead, innocent black man, in his own apartment.

Why are you so eager to chalk these facts up to conspiracy theories?

I'm actually upset and suspicious about a manslaughter charge versus murder one at this point.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
62. Do you understand how the law works?
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 06:49 AM
Sep 2018

Murder requires them to prove she had intent to go to that apartment and harm him or that the death happens during the commission of another felony.

If you can’t prove intent and don’t have another felony in progress at the time, you don’t have murder. You have manslaughter.

At this point, absent the conspiracy theorists fantasies, there is nothing that even comes close to proving any intent existed to the standard required to bring charges and convict somebody.

There is absolutely more than enough for a slam dunk conviction on manslaughter.

You are framing a situation in your mind to try and steer judgement one way, because that’s what you want. Sit back and look at it from the standpoint of a jury and of a prosecutor. Beyond a reasonable doubt is a high burden to reach. Nothing we have seen here proves she went the the wrong apartment INTENTIONALLY with the INTENt to harm or kill him. Nothing. You can cherry pick the bits and pieces you want to try and make that seem so and connect the dots with things that exist only in your mind to convince yourself, but the evidence of that isn’t there. And the defense will easily sell the other story- exhausted cop, just finished a 12+ hour shift, parked on the wrong level of a series of buildings that all look alike, made a tragic mistake.

It’s a clear Manslaughter case. It’s nowhere near a Murder case. And just because you hate cops doesn’t make it a Murder case.

brush

(53,764 posts)
13. The banging on the door and yelling "let me in, let me in", is the key to the whole thing.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:09 PM
Sep 2018

You don't bang on your own door and yell to be let into your own apartment.

There had to be some kind of prior relationship.

Hope it comes out and is not whitewashed past the grand jury.

Just the fact that they're having a grand jury scares me as a biased, cop-favoring DA can slant the evidence and not call certain witnesses to get the cop off.

They have a dead man and the person who they know killed him, why don't they just charge her and take it to trial? We've seen grand juries in other killings of unarmed AA men used to "exonerate" killer cops.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
16. See my above response
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:12 PM
Sep 2018

Don’t put heavy credence in random media reports of eyewitness claims that are otherwise unsubstantiated. They often end up being false.

brush

(53,764 posts)
18. Why are you so eager to discount witness accounts? When it first happened the dead man's...
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:21 PM
Sep 2018

next door neighbor was quoted as hearing the knocks on the door, the yelling to be let in, a sound of a scuffle, then gun shots.

No grand jury needed. They have the dead body and the killer.

Take the killer to trial and let her make her case.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
27. No normal person would be allowed to roam around the crime scene after they killed someone......
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:30 PM
Sep 2018

but the police get to. Also, you know the other cops told her to keep her mouth shut.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
7. If it's true that the cop
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:03 PM
Sep 2018

had already filed two noise complaints against him, would it sound more plausible? It doesn't really matter though without sufficient evidence. Regardless of the prior complaints, she could have still made these string of terrible decisions that led to the tragedy.

 

LakeSuperiorView

(1,533 posts)
34. Parked on his floor? What kind of apartment building has parking on same floor
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:40 PM
Sep 2018

as apartments? I've never seen parking on the apartment levels. Having multiple levels of parking is rare, apartments and parking on the same level?

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
40. This complex does have multistory parking facilities
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 10:44 PM
Sep 2018

Look at South Side Flats in Dallas, Texas, then on Google Street View go around the complex to the southeast on Powhattan Street. Across the empty lot you can see the parking garage which is four, if not five, levels (ground level plus four if they use the top level for parking.

 

LakeSuperiorView

(1,533 posts)
42. The parking garage does not appear to be connected (other than at street level).
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:06 PM
Sep 2018

If I'm looking at the right thing, the parking structure is completely separated from the apartment building. One has to walk across the alley to enter the apartment building. Which makes the "parked on his floor" not make any sense.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
43. It's hard to tell from the only views you can get on Google Street View
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:36 PM
Sep 2018

The apartment complex does extend the width of the block behind the parking garage, if you "travel" up lamar and look at it from the north side, so it may be connected there. The entire complex is a huge four sided affair, extending from Lamar Street on the west side to the railroad on the east side. Unfortunately the Google Maps aerial view was taken before the complex was completed so the layout is not clear.

The website for the complex shows a large swimming pool and patio area - that has to be inside the block of flats closest to the railroad tracks.

OK, here is a page that shows a current aerial view but you have to scroll down. It looks as though there are two sections of apartments, an L- shape that includes the street level store fronts and a U-shape that encloses the pool. The parking garage seems to be at the back corner where the two sections come together"
https://www.har.com/south-side-flats/apartment_5211A

 

LakeSuperiorView

(1,533 posts)
46. Like I said, there does not appear to be any parking on the levels where the apartments are.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:44 PM
Sep 2018

I was looking at this building. The "parked on his floor" is nonsensical as one can't get a car into an apartment building.

Captain Stern

(2,201 posts)
64. Evidently, The kind of apartment building that they lived in.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:15 AM
Sep 2018

It sounds like it had an attached parking deck. She parked on the floor above hers.

 

LakeSuperiorView

(1,533 posts)
74. Problem is, Google maps shows no evidence that the parking structure is attached.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 09:05 AM
Sep 2018

Street view, unless the pics are dated, shows one has to go to street level and cross an alley before ascending inside the apartment building. An attached to each level parking garage would mean foregoing windows along an entire side of the building. Unless they have razed the site and rebuilt since Google maps took pictures, the building that is there would not lend itself to attaching a parking structure alongside the building.

Demovictory9

(32,448 posts)
39. with apartments, excessive noise can be footsteps, just regular walking. Apartments are build like
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 09:46 PM
Sep 2018

crap.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
70. I don't think excessive noise would have had anything to do with it.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 08:09 AM
Sep 2018

She was verifiably working prior to getting home. The cops will know where she was and what she was doing for her entire shift. And she was still in uniform when the incident happened.

GemDigger

(4,305 posts)
83. As I understand it the noise complaints were through the management office and nothing to do
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 10:51 AM
Sep 2018

with that night and there were several of them with one being that same day or shortly before.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
5. Not enough info yet but it could be a possible scenario
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 03:59 PM
Sep 2018

See also post 63 in this thread with indications by the attorney that there could have been causes for anger in the past between the two:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211119667#post63

exboyfil

(17,862 posts)
29. Maybe she angry about the noise form the previous night
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:50 PM
Sep 2018

and she went to confront him. If a witness sustains the story of her yelling "Open up", then it is a very plausible scenario but one you never will be able to prove.

I want to know how close he was to the door when he was shot. That would support that he actually opened the door.

Sneederbunk

(14,289 posts)
8. We may have to wait until the facts come out at trial or hearing.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:04 PM
Sep 2018

Rather than speculating or making things up.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
11. I suspect the true answer has some sort of twist we aren't expecting
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:08 PM
Sep 2018

But if she's shouting open the door, then that means:

1. She tried to get in but couldn't.
2. She assumed someone was in there to open the door.

2 generates more questions. Why did she assume someone was in there? Did they make sounds? If she thought it was an intruder, why would she ask them to open the door? I certainly wouldn't announce myself like that if I thought there was an intruder in my apartment, who could also be armed. Even if I was an armed officer. Did she think she knew the person inside? Was she expecting someone to be inside?

Other questions:

1. Was there some sort of unknown relationship between the two? (Positive or negative).
2. Did she realize she wasn't on the correct floor for her apartment but was dating or involved with someone on that floor? (either the victim, or some other person and she just got the door wrong). We assume she parked on the fourth floor incorrectly, but what if she intended it?
3. Why didn't the giant red floor mat clue her into not being in the right apartment. I don't care how tired you are, that's something one assumes you would notice. Now if you are drunk/high, you very well might not notice it or react appropriately to it.

Not to say your scenario isn't also possible, but why would she draw her gun over such a minor dispute? Why wouldn't we hear some sort of extended argument like turn down your effing TV or don't stomp around? It's basically he opens the door, and she more or less shoots him, without discussion. That suggests to me that there really wasn't any confrontation.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
76. Ok
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 09:15 AM
Sep 2018
Why did she assume someone was in there? Did they make sounds?

If she's trying to open a door with a wrong key, it makes noise. The person inside may hear that someone is messing with their door knob and ask who is there. That would then let her know there is someone inside.

Imagine being at home in your own apartment, and your doorknob starts jiggling because someone is obviously messing with it. What do you do?


If she thought it was an intruder, why would she ask them to open the door?


If she thought someone was inside her apartment, then what would you expect her to do? Leave? Call the police? She IS the police.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
86. well
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 11:42 AM
Sep 2018

The first is an assumption. We don't know if/when she heard sounds. Was it before she even put her key in? Was it after?
If someone started messing with my door, my initial reaction would be to be silent. After that, if I thought they were continuing to try and come in I would probably both look for my phone to dial 911 and say hey who are you and why are you trying to get into my apartment.

But, again, we don't know what kind of door handle it was, we don't know if he even was in his living room and heard anything.

Thus my question...the answer tells us something, whatever that answer is.

The second. First, if she thought it was an intruder, why would her response be to pound on the door and say let me in? I would not expect her to do that.

I would expect her to call for backup. I would expect her to announce herself as a police officer and issue commands.
What evidence we have is she did neither of those things except to bang on the door and say let me in.

 
17. Come On, Give Her Some Time
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:18 PM
Sep 2018

Her friends at the department, the union, and her lawyer, need more time to get the best possible story together. One with the greatest chance of getting her off completely, or at least, with a very light sentence. God forbid she loses her right to carry a gun! That would be a true tragedy.

 
19. Seems Very Simple To Me
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:25 PM
Sep 2018

She was clearly a nervous cop, with an itchy trigger finger. Perhaps the incident from the year before made her more prone to shoot first, ask questions later. Actually, that's pretty much the Pig motto these days, shoot first, if something bad happens to the person you shot, worry about that later. Or not at all, you were in fear for your life, after all.

So my theory is, she thought it was her apartment, and someone was trying to lock her out. Perhaps she heard noises inside, so she banged on door. She was startled when it opened, not to mention it was a Black man, and she knew that most black men were bad news, and this one was in her apartment. So she stood at the ready, and shot him, after all, she was standing her ground, and in fear for her life.

So yes, it was an honest mistake, right up until the point she took advantage of her position, and the fact she had a gun, to take action. She soon realized that she screwed up, and perhaps she might now lose her job, and started to panic, and think of ways to justify what she did. It takes time to come up with a coherent story, one that can stand in place for when she goes to court. They'll eventually come up with an appropriate screenplay, and stick to it.

fleur-de-lisa

(14,624 posts)
21. "there were noise complaints from the immediate downstairs neighbors"
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 04:31 PM
Sep 2018
https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/attorney-reveals-potential-link-dallas-cop-innocent-man-gunned-apartment/

The attorney for the victim, S. Lee Meritt, appeared on CNN Tuesday where he was asked by host Brooke Baldwin whether there was any connection between the two.

“The only connection we have been able to make is that she was his immediate downstairs neighbor,” Meritt said. “And there were noise complaints from the immediate downstairs neighbors about whoever was upstairs, and that would have been Botham. In fact, there were noise complaints that very day about upstairs activity in Botham’s apartment. Botham received a phone call about noise coming from his apartment from the downstairs neighbor.”

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
49. If she worked 12-15 hours that day, who made those noise complaints?
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:56 PM
Sep 2018

Since her story is that she got off work and went home, going to the wrong floor she did not have time to make a noise complaint that evening. If the released story is a lie and she had gone to her own apartment, complained to management about the noise with no results, then went up to Mr. Jean's apartment to complain to him, she should be charged with murder.

If she had complained that morning before she went to work then could she have been on a hair trigger that evening?

According to the YELP reviews, the South Side Flats was a good place to live until a new management company took over in 2017. Some of the reviews comment that complaints to security, who I guess would handle noise complaints, took days if not weeks to get results.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
25. There is no plausible story...she murdered him..because she knew more than likely
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:16 PM
Sep 2018

she would get away with it..

brush

(53,764 posts)
68. Yep, just as she shot the other guy in her other shooting incident. Never should have been on the...
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:51 AM
Sep 2018

on the force. She's 5'2". At that height and from the photos of her she could've weigh more than 140 lbs.

Most people she would come into contact with as a cop would be bigger than her so it's entirely possible that she would be more inclined to pull her gun to protect herself from being physically overpowered, as shown by being in two shooting incidents in just 4 years on the force when most cops never have to used their gun.

Seems too small to be an officer.

ecstatic

(32,681 posts)
30. Yep. Jean's family attorney said a downstairs neighbor had filed noise complaints against him
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 05:56 PM
Sep 2018

Her apartment was directly below Jean's apartment. I think she snapped and killed him when he wouldn't bend to her authority.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
32. I buy her story going to the wrong apartment.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 06:11 PM
Sep 2018

Outside of that I don't buy a damn thing she said. I think she started to open a dudes door and startled him and then went full rambo when she saw him. I do not think that the door was "ajar" and I think that story is total bullshit, and the only person who can refute it is dead.

Cattledog

(5,914 posts)
33. The doors in that complex can not be left ajar. They close automatically as a safety measure.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:30 PM
Sep 2018

The only way they can be ajar is if an object is placed to prevent it from closing.

displacedtexan

(15,696 posts)
36. Don't they also have lighted apartment numbers right beside the doors?
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 07:44 PM
Sep 2018

I saw a picture of the door this morning, and there's no way you don't glance at it every time you get home. I lived in a loft for 4 years, and I glanced at the number on the door every time. And it didn't have a brightly lit number.

brush

(53,764 posts)
69. That makes sense. She was probably intoxicated as well to have parked on the wrong...
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:58 AM
Sep 2018

floor and went to the wrong apartment. Your senario sounds plausible.

I hate to think of the other possibility that's in the back of my mind, that she she, being in white supremacy circles, planned the whole thing—a black guy, noisy neighbor. She had gotten away with shooting someone before so in her mind she'd just shoot him in the gut like the last guy who didn't die and claim it was a mistake, wrong apartment.

KWR65

(1,098 posts)
41. Please stop this. This was an accidental shooting. She will have a trial to determine guilt.
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:02 PM
Sep 2018

Just because you hate police doesn't mean that you have to make stuff up to paint her in the worst possible light. Have you ever made a mistake in your life? I know I have.

USALiberal

(10,877 posts)
44. Wow, you call this just a "mistake"????? imagine......
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:41 PM
Sep 2018

An average citizen that entered a police officer’s a apartment and accidentally shot and killed the
police officer. Do you honestly think they would be treated the same way This police officer has been treated???

leftstreet

(36,106 posts)
50. Should a trained police officer be making 'mistakes' like this?
Tue Sep 11, 2018, 11:59 PM
Sep 2018

Not sure it's a good idea to ask 'regular' people to relate to this situation

ecstatic

(32,681 posts)
56. That's why sane people don't carry guns, because they know
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 01:18 AM
Sep 2018

they're human and fallible. Anyone who acknowledges that s/he is human and capable of making mistakes would have taken a lot more precautions than Guyger did. Either way, that's a moot point as the evidence now points toward a noise-rage murder.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
66. Trained doctors and medical staff make mistakes that kill 250,000 a year
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:33 AM
Sep 2018

Anytime you have humans doing anything it will be imperfect.

In comparison police officer make far fewer fatal mistakes than medical professionals do.

leftstreet

(36,106 posts)
77. In operating rooms, not at a mall
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 10:19 AM
Sep 2018

The Killer Cop wasn't at a crime scene, or responding to an incident. No one called on her expertise or put her in a situation where she could potentially make a mistake

moriah

(8,311 posts)
53. Let me see if I can explain this for you.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 12:35 AM
Sep 2018

1) We don't hate police. I personally hate how police officers are seen as above the law, instead of as its executors held to at least the same standards as ordinary citizens while off-duty. There's argument for expecting somewhat more out of officers of the law, that they should as virtue of hopefully being adequately trained and having more knowledge of the law than the average citizen, but in the criminal responsibility portion the most we can Constitutionally ask for is equal treatment and standards for officers as citizens. Particularly when off-duty, but that's when its most vital.

2) To have a trial, charges had to be filed. 72 hours before arrest? Would that have happened had Dallas PD not started officer-involved shooting protocols, which might have included union agreements to not be questioned or taken into custody for a certain amount of time, despite her being off-duty? Would alleged witnesses have been making their statements to the media before officers, allowing their information to potentially contaminate the interview with the unquestioned suspect? Why, when the Dallas PD dropped their OIS protocol at noon Friday, did they not immediately move into the same processes they would use -- at least giving her the opportunity to turn herself in Friday, vs delay until Sunday?

3) Recently there have been multiple reports of officers who mixed their on and off-duty roles. The officer who essentially held an innocent family hostage with his gun, threatening to shoot them and claiming it was "his house" when he mixed up his AirB&B with another home is a prime example. Any other person would have been arrested as soon as proof was available that confirmed their identity, given the chance to obtain a lawyer, and put up bail. They didn't do anything of the sort. And in the context of what is both Constitutional and responsible about holding officers of the law to a slightly higher standard, there shouldn't have been caginess from the NYPD about his duty status and investigation. That time nobody died, but an innocent family was terrorized. That IS a crime, drunk and on vacation or not. Where's the accountability?

4) Part of the issues surrounding perceived "special treatment" of officers is that it leads TO such speculation. If Dallas PD had arranged arraignment for Friday after dropping their OIS protocol, she'd probably still have been free, but bailed -- aka, committed to coming to court. If unions want to put up bail money in mixed situations where it might seem to potentially violate the union rules, especially if the off-duty officer acts in an on-duty manner and may seek that defense (and no citizen must speak so delaying the interview beyond union limits would still be fine), I don't see a problem. But she was perceived to be given special treatment by delaying that necessary consequence of getting caught doing something potentially illegal -- the free fingerprinting and photography, then paying for your physical freedom and promising to appear in court. Even if you're found innocent in said court.

5) I gave my unvarnished opinion of her behavior in this post, and you may feel some "cop-hate" in it, as well as "cop-prejudgment" -- expecting more out of people we give guns to and ask to maintain the peace. But FFS, even I am not so much of an idiot to go inside my home to confront a burglar inside it. And I have carried. I certainly can say that shooting at "a dark silhouette" in an allegedly completely dark apartment is NOT following the fourth rule of gun safely. Therefore NOT an accident. It was pure negligence in the best possible view, recklessness in the view of the law per her charges finally. When you have someone trapped in an apartment, backing out so you are able to have the door in your sights and calling 911 is the safest, smartest option for any armed person.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
55. +1, the professionals LEO's even hate the lack of accountability !! Jus no system to weed the bad ..
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 01:05 AM
Sep 2018

... seeds out.

I do feel DPD will make this right, they have a decent track record so far sans this incident

pnwmom

(108,976 posts)
59. Nobody knows it was accidental. All we know are her shifting stories,
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 01:57 AM
Sep 2018

and the words of the witnesses who heard her screaming at him to open the door.

She is a trained police officer. That means she KNEW that once she realized someone was in "her" apartment, she should have immediately retreated and called for back-up.

Nothing about what she did makes sense -- unless she was "accidentally" too drunk to know what she should do.

Demsrule86

(68,546 posts)
63. You get into a car accident and it is your fault...you will be charged if you were reckless...
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:07 AM
Sep 2018

she went into an apartment and gunned a man down. That is not a mistake...it is murder. Stop defending her.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
67. Manslaughter, not murder
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:36 AM
Sep 2018

It’s a clear case of manslaughter and she will be convicted.

It’s not murder, however, unless we see some new evidence. Murder requires intent to harm or the death happen while another felony was being committed. We don’t see that here. What we do see is reckless actions that set off a chain of events that led to the death. That is Manslaughter under Texas law.

Demsrule86

(68,546 posts)
73. Not in Texas...murder. There was intent.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 08:31 AM
Sep 2018

she is a murderer...got irritated by noise went to the apartment and shot him...because she thought she could...being police and all...arrest her and charge her.

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
75. There is no proof of that other than in your mind
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 09:07 AM
Sep 2018

And the theories in your head are not admissible in court.

If the totality of the circumstances was diferent, and she had been at home all day and not just arriving home after a 12 hour shift, maybe they could try and sell that to a jury. But given all the circumstances- just got home, parked on the wrong floor, rendered first aid immediately after, etc the totality circumstances totally supports a manslaughter charge, and doesn’t at all come close to supporting the standard needed to prove intent and get a murder conviction.

Some of you anti-cop types get as irrational in your conspiracy theories that you display the same kind of twisted logic as Alex Jones followers when it suits you. You decide what the truth has to be based on your own biases then twist logic and cherry pick facts to convince yourself that’s reality.

Demsrule86

(68,546 posts)
87. Careful with the insults...witness accounts she shouted open the door...noise issues.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 12:00 PM
Sep 2018

she lost it...murder. You always seem to come to the defense of killer cops...don't know why.

DFW

(54,341 posts)
65. It's accidental when you aim a loaded gun at a guy's chest, pull the trigger and kill him?
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:19 AM
Sep 2018

It must get really nasty when it's deliberate.

Beakybird

(3,332 posts)
54. Police officers have really crazy hours
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 12:59 AM
Sep 2018

He might have enjoyed music in the early evening while she was sleeping.
I'm waiting for more facts before opining.
I had a roommate who commit suicide, and people confidently speculated after reading the news story that it was the ex-husband who had murdered her - because it so often is. Being her roommate, I knew she was suicidal and that she had attempted before.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
71. Waiting for more facts....when there is a historical systematic murdering of unarmed black men
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 08:14 AM
Sep 2018

in this country by cops...

R B Garr

(16,950 posts)
84. She also could have been drunk. Sounds like
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 10:53 AM
Sep 2018

some kind of substance abuse haze.

edit-and when she sobered up, she started changing her story.

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