General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBernie Sanders is doing exactly what he should be doing. Let's all do it
Sanders has had some powerful videos and popular pieces in the last few years calling Trump out on his lies, the GOP on their attack against Social Security and Medicare, and trickle down economics in general.
When I see one, I post it or kick and recommend the thread where someone else has posted it.
"Sanders isn't a Democrat" "Democratic politicians have been saying this too", etc., almost always follow that.
But Sanders is doing exactly what he, and every other American politician, should be doing: calling out lies and protecting the American public.
If it pains you to see something posted favorably about Sanders, then post some excellent messages from politicians you like even more! I will kick and recommend those, too, especially if they are smart in their messaging and progressive in their approach.
In fact, let's all compete to see who can post and kick up the most Trump-hostile and citizen-friendly messages we can find, from the politicians who we like the best. Politicians who make those statements and messages are on our side. I read a lot about how much better Democratic politicians are than Sanders. I'm open to it. Bring their messages here, loudly and proudly, and let's all work on getting rid of Trump and the corrupt GOP congress! But don't dump on Sanders for doing the right thing - all of us should be doing the right things, and I'm happy to have him fighting the good fight along with my party.
peekaloo
(22,977 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)StuckInTexas
(66 posts)Seriously, I get that you're schtick here is passive aggressive Lol's at anything you disagree with, but why here? This post just seems so unnecessary, and even worse, purposely divisive.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)Personal attacks don't add much to the discussion.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,169 posts)So....rebuking divisive attacks against one of our own.....is a "personal attack" itself?
really?
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)He is not a Democrat.
LiberalLovinLug
(14,169 posts)Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,169 posts)They could work together. Why can't we?
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)LiberalLovinLug
(14,169 posts)These Democrats must be pretty stupid to be hanging out with an "attacker", right?
Or....maybe. Just maybe, they don't take the occasional constructive criticism of the party as an "attack", and see much more benefit in working with a strong Independent ally, who champions causes FDR would be proud of.
Trumpocalypse
(6,143 posts)Bernie Sanders: Establishment Dems 'dont generate excitement'
Bernie backers' attacks on Democrats infuriate the party
Hillary Clinton says Bernie Sanders' attacks 'paved the way' for Trump
Hillary Clinton is right about Bernie Sanders
BTW As great a President as FDR was he supported segregation, the illegal interment of Japanese Americans, built the military industrial complex and abandoned universal healthcare.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Why jump on a thread to be mean Nurse Jackie? You could just leave the thread alone and move on.
Response to Equinox Moon (Reply #41)
LiberalLovinLug This message was self-deleted by its author.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)No answer yet, unsurprisingly...
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11124451
sheshe2
(83,729 posts)No answer.
BannonsLiver
(16,366 posts)katmondoo
(6,454 posts)StuckInTexas
(66 posts)to do with the OP here, but always remember your audience. There are many passionate posters here who will never be able to get past the 2016 primary. With some posters here, they have as equal animosity for him as they for Trump. It is what it is. I love the spirit of this post, but I'm afraid that sentiment is not popular here. Don't let it get you down though and keep up the real fight against the fascist GOP.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)There, saved them the trouble.
babylonsister
(171,056 posts)Now that's one more tiny kick for this thread.
pnwmom
(108,974 posts)In which case he'd be in the race on purpose to divide the progressive vote. I don't know why anyone here wants to promote him, knowing that.
I'd feel completely differently about him if he hadn't left the party and announced he wasn't coming back.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)you're right, of course.
Just trying to reduce the hate against our own allies, which seems unproductive, and hopefully encouraging more passionate enthusiasm for Democratic politicians and candidates. I want to see all of them sticking it to Trump and the inert GOP co-collaborators.
I can understand the feelings, and we are all disappointed by the results of the election.
Response to StuckInTexas (Reply #7)
Post removed
honest.abe
(8,672 posts)So considering that I would say he is not "doing exactly what he should be doing".
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)honest.abe
(8,672 posts)demmiblue
(36,838 posts)he is doing what he is supposed to be doing. And, imo, he is doing a good job. I am also impressed by a lot of other Dem politicians (Merkley, Harris, Swalwell, Warren, Hirono, Schiff, etc.). It is time for people to get over themselves and work toward the blue wave.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)lapucelle
(18,242 posts)so he can travel around the country. Similarly, many have remarked that when BS raises money for primary candidates, half the donation goes to him unless the donor specifically opts out.
Hopefully he'll working hard on outreach to voters for Democratic party candidates in the upcoming general election.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Here's a succinct description of his "duties" in the "outreach" role that many like to boast about... it seems like routine busy-work that really doesn't have much to do with growing the Democratic party. I'm sure it's all exceedingly important, of course, but when it comes right down to it... the actual duties are focused on the party's Senate agend. Not "voter outreach" as many seem to believe.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)position thrown to Bernie.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Voltaire2
(13,006 posts)Hesnottademocratarrglebarrgle
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)These types of posts are calculated to fluff Sanders' reputation, presumably in hopes of boosting his chances in 2020, should he run..
Quite often, the posts are breathlessly worded and expressed in terms indicating that ONLY Sanders is doing the right thing.
I'll be frank, the guys behavior in 2016 totally lost me. I now fin him a detriment to the party. I believe if he runs again, he'll lose again, but he'll do damage again and our candidate will be weakened in the GE. Again.
And lastly, he ISN'T a Democrat. Until he is willing to commit to the party, I think he does more harm than good.
Response to Adrahil (Reply #14)
Post removed
Cha
(297,123 posts)Response to Cha (Reply #21)
Post removed
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)DemocracyMouse
(2,275 posts)And many Democrats do the same.
And here's an EXPLOSIVE video by Robert Reich: https://m.
What are WE doing? Whining?
Support ALL PROGRESSIVES!!!
Thank you.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)And give no evidence to directly refute their claims.
No "facts," just opinions.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)mountain grammy
(26,614 posts)and way over the top.
Your post does more harm than good.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Cha
(297,123 posts)on the net see it for what it really is.
Truth doesn't do "harm". Thank Goodness when People are allowed to speak the Truth!
pnwmom
(108,974 posts)So what is his intention? To split the progressive vote? Why?
He also thinks it's wrong for the Democrats to endorse an INCUMBENT Democrat.
Sanders criticized Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez on Wednesday for endorsing New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo over primary challenger Cynthia Nixon. He said this sort of interference by party bosses makes it harder to trust that progressives will get a fair shake in 2020.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/paloma/daily-202/2018/06/07/daily-202-why-bernie-sanders-won-t-join-the-democratic-party/5b18850d30fb04775d88138c/?utm_term=.048416ee5d1b
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)appropriateness of his leaving the party immediately after he didn't need our our inclusiveness, funds and party structure.
Once again, the choice for every person at this very dangerous point in our democracy is between protecting our government of, by and for the people by helping elect a Democrat or assisting those who intend to destroy it by helping elect a Republican.
Regardless of how we vote or whether we vote, our actions will promote one goal or the other.
Sanders and I have another thing in common -- we both don't suffer intolerable, destructive fools gladly.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,109 posts)it will do.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
onit2day
(1,201 posts)would still stand for the people and personal integrity. Bernie has done more for our party than most of our so called leaders. He has energized it while emphasizing our FDR roots. He has my gratitude, respect,and support.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Not Pelosi - she actually got health care reform passed, instead of simply talking about it. The GOP wants her gone, she's so effective.
Not Schumer - he actually got health care reform passed, instead of simply talking about it.
Definitely not Hillary Clinton - she actually got health care reform passed (CHIP) instead of simply talking about it.
Not Bill Clinton - He brought LGBTQ issues to the fore, instead of refusing to discuss that when it's a re-election year...
They have earned my gratitude and respect.
Bernie has talked trash about the Democratic party more than any Democratic leader, I'll give you that...
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)most people know that to be true, but there's a small minority here who can't let go of 2016 and move on. My advice... dont bother wasting your breath. And go Bernie!!
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)than Sanders.
Wow! I think I see your problem and why you would choose to start another divisive thread.
Cha
(297,123 posts)take umbrage when they get pushback. Ridiculous.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)zentrum
(9,865 posts)...Professor. You nailed it.
mountain grammy
(26,614 posts)ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)HootieMcBoob
(3,823 posts)I have been a member of DU for a very long time and started following the site religiously well before signing on. Bernie Sanders used to be held in the highest regard by almost everyone here. Its unfortunate that thats no longer the case. He is doing excellent work and is bringing loads of new people and energy into the fold. Thanks very much for your post
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)thanks
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)to, tend to accept the leader the group chooses, and then tend to adopt the ideology and arguments of the leader. WHAT!!!??? (I didn't find learning that pleasant either.)
Appalling but as true for most on the left as on the right. Individuals vary by our degree of loyalty and obedience, and whatever, but the vast majority of us apparently follow this pattern enough to make a very strong one in large pop0ulations. And these days we're sticking with our groups for years and years.
If Sanders told you (the typical "you" in your splinter group, not you specifically) to set aside factionalism temporarily and join with the mainstream of the Democratic Party to stop the threat of authoritarian takeover from the right (just until the threat was defeated), you would. Because he's the leader, and if he put it convincingly enough that you didn't go find another. But he's not really telling you that, and we know it because we all know what he's saying and we all observe ongoing behaviors.
None of us are mindless zombies, of course. We all presumably want to stop the anti-progressive wave that threatens to permanently destroy everything we say we want to accomplish.
So, you might have asked yourselves, why haven't you found a new leader who is committed to saving progressivism in government? Only until the threat is vanquished? To save Social Security, the dream of universal healthcare, the ability to demand a police officer's name and badge number? The small group can't possibly save it on their own, right? They'd have to fight alongside the larger, even if they maintained a discrete identify.
Political psychologists could tell us in great detail why progressive followers haven't dumped their current leader in favor of another committed to fighting the right, and why mainstream Democrats don't leave their group focused on stopping the right to join you.
But it has very little to do with endangered progressive goals and everything to do with loyalty to group and leader.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie continues to lead on progressive issues... and it's not surprising that most, if not all, the leading 2020 Democratic presidential contenders are adopting his positions... smart move!!
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)for a long time... despite his smearing the Democratic party at times. The differences primarily being strategies to achieve those goals.
However, I think it's positive that he has adopted some of Hillary's and the Democrats' policies on social justice issues since 2016. She definitely pulled him left on that.
MrsCoffee
(5,801 posts)It is no longer the case because many people no longer trust him.
He is the literal definition of the word he uses to slander people in the Democratic Party. Establishment. He was installed and has been protected for decades from actual Democratic candidates by a party that he publicly shames and refuses to join. He doesnt just bite the hand that feeds him. He devours the whole arm.
Thanks but no thanks to his divisive politics. He did nothing to harness that energy or even share those new people with them what brung him.
babylonsister
(171,056 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Link to tweet
https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/23/politics/top-dem-says-president-a-known-liar-cnntv/index.html
https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/01/14/calling-trump-a-racist-and-liar-frederica-wilson-says-shell-boycott-his-speech/
https://www.liberaladvocate.com/2018/01/12/durbin-president-trump-you-lied-liar/
http://www.chicagotribune.com/91217917-157.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/mar/14/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-violence-cnn-town-hall-video
Cha
(297,123 posts)day!
My Senator.. Mazie Hirono!
grantcart
(53,061 posts)As for the other things that you credit Sanders doing, I have been doing it every day for 2 years.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)then Sanders must be your ally, if you are doing the same things.
That's pretty cool, having the most popular politician in the US helping out your cause.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)Mine is a team cause.
Politics, governance is a team sport.
When Sanders joins the team and leaves the team (forget the fact that he tells people that the team does terrible things) he is stating in "branding terms" that it is not a first place team. It is a second place team and it is below him. He is saying that there is should be a better team but he will go along with this team for now.
Its as if a football player joined a team that had orange and black colored jerseys and a player insisted on wearing his own colors, green and gold.
They may run in the same direction and they may run the same route but they are not on the same team. One team supports and promotes the team. May not even have names on the back of the Jerseys, they are known as the Democrats.
Sanders promotes himself and a few Democrats that he endorses. He says that the Democrats are terrible at messaging, he doesn't agree with their branding. He is on the team when it helps him score points and leaves the team when it helps him improve his individual brand.
Yesterday I had a killer day. Got up at 4 am with 4 hours sleep for an 18 hour killer work day.
On the way from San Diego to Yuma in the middle of a desolate area there was a trunk parked on the shoulder. A driver was starting on what was going to be a 5 mile trip to the gas station.
Turns out he lost track of his DEF and ran out.
Normally I would have stopped and picked him up but this time I took him to the 2nd gas station (first didn't have DEF) and he could have waited a couple of hours to arrange a ride back to his truck but I took him.
I took him back (even though he was no longer "stranded" because it would give me another 30 minutes to tell him more about O'Rourke. He was from Texas. I already got him excited about O'Rourke but while he was picking up his DEF I was in the car looking up places in Laredo where you could get an absentee ballot because he says he is registered but never home and rarely voted.
By the time we got back to his truck with the DEF he had bookmarked the link and had texted 15 friends to vote for Beto.
I did this because the head of our team told us to take off our slippers and put on our boots and get going. Being a team player I was inspired and took an hour out on a day that made my diabetes scream pain into my feet and stayed with this guy, just like I was canvassing door to door, which I do a lot of for Democrats. In my Congressional District the winner of the Democratic nomination Alexandra Kirkpatrick sent out a mailer for my candidate, Dr Heinz (who happens to be gay) lying and saying that he supported the NRA. Kirkpatrick was an ardent NRA supporter until our congresswoman Giffords got shot in the head. Personally I hate Kirkpatrick for what she did to Dr. Heinz. I spent last Saturday going door to door because in the end who is on the ballot isn't that important. Its the D that's important. So even when I am unhappy with the individual I promote the team because in the US system power is given to teams, not individuals. Sanders has it backwards.
Now even if Beto doesn't win the increased turnout should trigger 2 red congressional seats to flip to blue.
So Sanders may agree with me on many things (and on trade he agrees with Trump while I agree with Obama) but he is also SHOUTING A SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE by repeatedly joining and then leaving the Democratic Party and that is "DEMOCRATS ARE NOT REALLY GOOD ENOUGH".
You can excuse it away, you can be devoted to your hero but you cannot explain away the fact that Sanders really doesn't think that the Democratic Team measures up. If he thought that they did he would have their name on his jersey.
Just last week I talked in depth with a guy who voted for Trump and is now unhappy but really likes Sanders. He doesn't think that the Democrats are good for anything and he doesn't really think that Democrats and Sanders have that much in common.
As Luhan said "the medium is the message" and Sanders medium is "the Democratic Party is not good enough for me".
You are free to delude yourself in thinking that such distinctions don't speak volumes to ordinary people but they do and they are cumulative over years. There is a huge amount of proven statistical research that shows if you can get somebody to vote in 3 Presidential elections for the same party they will remain with that party for the rest of their lives at a very high percentage. The point is to build a bond with the team.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)Glad to have you on our team, in any case.
pnwmom
(108,974 posts)Then he will be our opponent, so I am leery of people here promoting him now.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Several Democratic senators are coming off the fence to announce they will oppose President Trump's second Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh.
Sens. Jeanne Shaheen (N.H.), Maggie Hassan (N.H.) and Sheldon Whitehouse (R.I.) became the latest Democrats to say they will vote against Kavanaugh. Both senators announced their opposition on Monday.
"While much of Judge Kavanaughs record remains a mystery, what we do know is extremely troubling and dangerously out of step with the American people, particularly on critical issues including executive power, abortion rights and pre-existing conditions," Shaheen said in a statement.
She added that Kavanaugh's "inability to remember if he has discussed the Special Counsels investigation with President Trumps defense team is extremely alarming."
Hassan also pointed to the impact Kavanaugh could have on Roe v. Wade, the 1973 case that established the right to an abortion, and executive authority, where Democrats worry Kavanaugh would give Trump a wide berth.
"We need to be clear that Judge Kavanaugh, the people who have promoted him throughout his career and who precleared his nomination, and President Trump could all lead us down a path toward further criminalizing abortion," Hassan wrote in a Medium post announcing her opposition.
Whitehouse, a member of the Judiciary Committee, said that Kavanaugh "ducked" their questions last week and failed to reassure lawmakers.
The Supreme Court needs to stand alone, tall and independent, and Americans should feel confident their cases will be decided on the merits. ... Judge Kavanaugh has failed to give Americans that assurance, and he will not get my vote," he said.
Kavanaugh, if confirmed, is expected to tilt the Supreme Court to the right for decades by providing Republicans with a more conservative justice comparable to Anthony Kennedy, who was the court's swing vote and who Kavanaugh would succeed.
In addition to Shaheen and Hassan, Democratic Sens. Tim Kaine (Va.) and Ben Cardin (Md.) said on Friday that they would oppose Kavanaugh.
jalan48
(13,856 posts)njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)jalan48
(13,856 posts)betsuni
(25,456 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It can take a LOT of discipline to keep the narrative of a sacred cow on top of the news feeds, regardless of its inaccuracy.
But I get it... criticizing a sacred cow can easily be perceived a 'hate' when we fail to hold sacred that which is simply human.
jalan48
(13,856 posts)Bernie hasn't needed to "evolve" over the years like so many politicians. People paying attention respect that.
Uncle Joe
(58,348 posts)Well said ProfessorPlum!
George II
(67,782 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)After the election, Bernie suggested that Democrats should be open to nominating and supporting candidates who are anti-choice. Other topics, such as economic justice, are sacrosanct, but apparently womens health is not.
- Hillary Clinton
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Why this relentless posting about this one politician who is also doing that? It's not like he's a Democrat. He caucuses with them, but he has his own agenda. His own ideology. If he agreed with the Democratic Party Platform, he'd be a member of that party.
It's great he's pointing out the lies of Trump, like the Democrats are doing consistently on national tv. But don't forget...he has his own reasons that don't always jive with the Democratic Party ideology.
betsuni
(25,456 posts)VOX
(22,976 posts)To me, actually being a Democrat communicates a COMMITMENT to like-minded people and to the ideals that should reflect the party. Its not always easy, being a Democrat. Yes, there have been a few worthless Democrats in the past, and probably will in the future. But thats more than offset by the partys ideals, and some of the best people out there who sincerely want a decent life for ALL.
For whatever reason, Bernie refuses to be an actual Democrat. Its like some marital pre-nup it says not committed to anyone but myself.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)what ideals do you think the Democratic party has or should have that Sanders does not? Besides belonging to a particular group.
VOX
(22,976 posts)As a person, and as a leftward voice, I appreciate much of what Bernies accomplished. I voted for him in the 2016 primary, in hopes of pushing the Democratic Party to the left. But Bernie consistently uses the Democratic Party when its convenient for him. That may seem like no big deal, but, as stated in my previous post, it reflects a question-mark as to where hell come down on certain issues. Two examples:
https://newrepublic.com/article/149378/bernie-sanders-not-left
Sanders Is Not the Left
His refusal to endorse ICE's abolition is the latest evidence that he's not the politician that many believe him to be.
The New Republic By SARAH JONES
June 26, 2018
When CNNs Jake Tapper asked Bernie Sanders on Sunday if he wants to abolish the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, the senator was uncharacteristically vague. I think that what we need is to create policies which deal with immigration in a rational way. And a rational way is not locking children up in detention centers or separating them from their mothers, he said. What we need is Trump to sit down with members of Congress and work on a rational program which deals with this serious issue.
<snip>
But contrary to how hes often portrayed in the media, he is not a doctrinaire leftist. His principal benefit to the left has been to mainstream certain beliefsnamely, that access to health care, education, and living wages are rights, not luxuries. But Sanders is not a revolutionary. His views arent even entirely consistent with democratic socialism, the political tradition he claims. Its one thing to call for breaking up the big banks, and quite another to call for the nationalization of private industries.
<snip>
https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1962AU
U.S. Senate votes near unanimously for Russia, Iran sanctions
Reuters | By Patricia Zengerle
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate voted nearly unanimously on Thursday for legislation to impose new sanctions on Russia and force President Donald Trump to get Congress' approval before easing any existing sanctions on Russia.
In a move that could complicate U.S. President Donald Trump's desire for warmer relations with Moscow, the Senate backed the measure by 98-2. Republican Senator Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders, an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, were the only two "no" votes.
<snip>
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)I'm a little surprised that you are criticizing him from the left, but ok, you are entitled to your opinions and your mileage may vary. Trust is not a scientific matter. Sanders has been consistently pushing New Deal economics and policies for decades, and I trust him to continue working towards them.
BTW, that Russia sanctions vote was actually a vote to NOT impose sanctions on Iran, thus breaking the Iran deal.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernies-vote-on-sanctions-was-about-protecting-the-iran-deal-from-trump_us_597df7f8e4b0da64e879b55e
betsuni
(25,456 posts)only one to do so since FDR. Obviously.
tazkcmo
(7,300 posts)I posted a response to an OP featuring a tweet of his critical of Shitgibbon. I said F Crystal. I was then told we need all the help we can get. Neo Cons get more support in this site than Sen Sanders.
ProfessorPlum
(11,254 posts)otherwise, I've got nothing.
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)dembotoz
(16,799 posts)betsuni
(25,456 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Doing so is both personally validating and emotionally convenient.
As for other perspectives holding other opinions? P'shaw... unless they righteously worship the sacred cow, it can only be hatred (I learned that particular bit of dogmatic doggerel attending a Southern Baptist Church one summer, but I'm confident you're clever enough to have come up with yourself)