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Who controls the Senate if it is 50-50? (Original Post) MoonRiver Sep 2018 OP
They do. BlueTsunami2018 Sep 2018 #1
Ugh MoonRiver Sep 2018 #4
Whoever is the Vice President. madaboutharry Sep 2018 #2
Repugnant Goons- Pence is the tiebreaker YessirAtsaFact Sep 2018 #3
The Vice President has the tie-breaking vote. Hekate Sep 2018 #5
Can he break ALL tie votes, or just 50-50 tie votes? NurseJackie Sep 2018 #6
Only ties... Wounded Bear Sep 2018 #11
But if it's a 49-49 tie (for whatever reason)... NurseJackie Sep 2018 #15
Yes... Wounded Bear Sep 2018 #19
Thanks for the extra info! NurseJackie Sep 2018 #22
No problem, we all need to be well informed... Wounded Bear Sep 2018 #23
What are you planning on putting in that syringe NurseJackie? ProudLib72 Sep 2018 #45
Ha! To be determined... NurseJackie Sep 2018 #46
The party that stole the WH does. Or putin, same thing Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #7
What If? LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #8
Nope... Google Spiro Agnew for this. But, the newly elevated "President" picks a VP who then hlthe2b Sep 2018 #10
I Was Afraid Of That LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #12
Then Pence would have to nominate someone else. hlthe2b Sep 2018 #14
So The Democrats Could Be In A Position To Fight It? LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #18
No... There is no way either party would want the VP office to remain vacant. hlthe2b Sep 2018 #24
No Way? LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #27
VPs are generally merely place-holders in case the President leaves office in whatever manner. hlthe2b Sep 2018 #31
President pro tempore Cerulean Southpaw Sep 2018 #25
Right Now It's Hatch LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #29
No, even with Democratic control of the House Cerulean Southpaw Sep 2018 #30
Not What I Asked LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #33
The scenario keeps getting more unlikely Cerulean Southpaw Sep 2018 #39
President pro-temp is always the longest serving Senator of the majority party hlthe2b Sep 2018 #32
No Majority LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #34
Independents already factor in. That's why it is 50:50 (100 total Senators) hlthe2b Sep 2018 #35
I Won't Hold My Breath LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #38
I think you are mistaken that the Pro tempore EVER gets two votes in order to break a tie hlthe2b Sep 2018 #40
Look we all share your frustration, but this hypothetical gets us nothing. hlthe2b Sep 2018 #41
It Would Not Stop The repubs LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #42
President Pro Tempore DOES NOT get two votes. He/she would not be the tie breaker. hlthe2b Sep 2018 #36
Not quite Cerulean Southpaw Sep 2018 #21
Party of the Vice President since he/she would be the tie breaker hlthe2b Sep 2018 #9
The Vice President is the Tie Breaker dlk Sep 2018 #13
Russia. n/t Tiggeroshii Sep 2018 #16
As noted - VP rules genxlib Sep 2018 #17
We would only need one Republican to switch, but ... JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2018 #26
Agreed genxlib Sep 2018 #44
Power sharing arrangement onenote Sep 2018 #20
I would support the Willie Brown tactic in that case. David__77 Sep 2018 #28
Yep, Pence gets to break tie votes MrScorpio Sep 2018 #37
Pence can vote to break a tie. shanny Sep 2018 #43
Republicans because of Pence, he breaks ties. nt Blue_true Sep 2018 #47
The Vice President ellie Sep 2018 #48

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
15. But if it's a 49-49 tie (for whatever reason)...
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:03 PM
Sep 2018

But if it's a 49-49 tie (for whatever reason... maybe someone is sick) can Pence step in and break that tie too?

Wounded Bear

(58,440 posts)
19. Yes...
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:06 PM
Sep 2018

The Constitution only says "ties." It does not specify numbers.

I think there is a clause on what constitutes a quorum, but I don't know that off the top of my head.

 
8. What If?
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 04:53 PM
Sep 2018

Hypothetically, although I know it's unlikely to happen, what with the criminal repubs standing by their Cult leader. If Drumpf were to leave office, and Pence became President, does the Speaker Of The House become Vice-President? Doesn't the House have to confirm whoever is going into that office under these circumstances?

If say Nancy Pelosi were to become VP, does she then cast the deciding vote in a 50-50 tie?

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
10. Nope... Google Spiro Agnew for this. But, the newly elevated "President" picks a VP who then
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 04:56 PM
Sep 2018

must be confirmed by both the House AND the Senate (since he/she was not elected)
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/vice-president-agnew-resigns

 
12. I Was Afraid Of That
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 04:59 PM
Sep 2018

What if Pence nominates someone, and the Democratic Controlled House refuses to confirm? Is the office left vacant? And 50-50 ties result in nothing passing on either side?

 
18. So The Democrats Could Be In A Position To Fight It?
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:05 PM
Sep 2018

If the House Democrats were to take the "Garland" approach, and refuse to vote on Anyone Pence nominated, could they?

I imagine the outcry among repubs would be non-stop, but if the Democrats held strong, could they in effect leave the VP office vacant until 2020, thereby taking away any repub advantage in case of 50-50 Senate ties?

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
24. No... There is no way either party would want the VP office to remain vacant.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:16 PM
Sep 2018

Same thing that happens if by some prayer, Kavanaugh is not confirmed. Trump will nominate someone else.

Were there a VP vacancy with a nominee not yet confirmed by House/Senate and an important 50-50 vote pending (which would be unlikely to ever happen since the Senate would not let such a consequential vote if there were no way to break a tie), the Constitution doesn't address who would be eligible to replace the VP in a tie breaking vote. My guess, is they'd have to bring the vote up again after a VP is confirmed by House and Senate.

 
27. No Way?
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:25 PM
Sep 2018

You don't think the repubs would do this? They left a Supreme Court seat vacant for a year, just to get their way.

How can you say the Democrats would not want to refuse confirmation of a Pence nominee, knowing that by doing so, they would be an automatic repub Senate vote in case of a tie?

And why would the Senate stop taking votes, just because they expected them to end in an unbreakable tie?

There have been a myriad of theories about the various impact of a Constitutional crisis, and a President leaving office is something that has not happened in 45 years. The whole thing stinks, and it's uncharted territory, so I don't understand why you think it's a bad thing.

And if you think the repubs are above doing this, even if it were to damage the country, you haven't been paying attention.

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
31. VPs are generally merely place-holders in case the President leaves office in whatever manner.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:33 PM
Sep 2018

Neither party (not in power) gains anything unless nearly the entire line of succession is wiped out and in terms of party change over in the office, not even then.

25. President pro tempore
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:19 PM
Sep 2018

House Democrats could do that, but it wouldn't matter.

If the VP isn't available, the tiebreaking vote and other functions of VP would be fulfilled by the president pro tem. Right now that's Orrin Hatch.

 
29. Right Now It's Hatch
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:27 PM
Sep 2018

If the Democrats take control of the House, it would be a Democrat.

So if the Senate is 50-50, who is the President pro-tem?

30. No, even with Democratic control of the House
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:33 PM
Sep 2018

President pro tem is always a member of the Senate, chosen by the Senate

39. The scenario keeps getting more unlikely
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:48 PM
Sep 2018

I don't see how it would be possible to not already have a President pro tem in place at the exact time that the VP office becomes empty, but the "acting pro tem" carries out most of the pro tem duties anyway.

The "acting pro tem" is usually a junior senator and can be selected by the president as often as the president wants with no confirmation needed.

Sorry, but I don't see any realistic way that this would work.

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
32. President pro-temp is always the longest serving Senator of the majority party
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:35 PM
Sep 2018

so nothing is gained by their casting the tie breaking vote (for the minority party).

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
35. Independents already factor in. That's why it is 50:50 (100 total Senators)
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:40 PM
Sep 2018

No, then the VP comes into play. If vacant, the vote is scheduled for after a new VP is confirmed. President Pro Tempore only really comes into play in the line of succession.

 
38. I Won't Hold My Breath
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:47 PM
Sep 2018

So if there is No VP, the President nominates one, and House & Senate have to approve.

If it's a 50-50 split, then there is No Pro-Tem, and therefore nobody to vote to break a 50-50 tie.

Why is this not beneficial to the Democrats? By confirming a repub VP, they effectively would go back to losing every 50-50 vote. Given that repubs seldom vote against their own party, the Democrats would not have any other way to block the repub agenda in the Senate.

Worst case scenario, Pence gets a Supreme nomination, goes to Senate and is 50-50, with a Pence appointed repub breaking it.

Again I mention, the repubs left a SC seat open for a year, just to get their way. Why is it wrong for us to do likewise with the VP if Drumpf were to leave in disgrace?

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
40. I think you are mistaken that the Pro tempore EVER gets two votes in order to break a tie
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:52 PM
Sep 2018

as a member of the Senate, they would either already have voted. As I said, their real constitutional function is in the line of successor. This supposition that they would act in lieu of the missing VP to break a tie is, I think, total conjecture.

hlthe2b

(101,729 posts)
41. Look we all share your frustration, but this hypothetical gets us nothing.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:55 PM
Sep 2018

Leaving the VP office open in the way you describe, if it ever occurred, does not benefit us. The Senate would either hold over the vote, pressure the President to pull the nomination in lieu of another, or go to court to request clarification on whether line of succession can be used to replace VP even temporarily. Either would be slow going so, they'd likely just keep the vote open.

 
42. It Would Not Stop The repubs
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 06:03 PM
Sep 2018

I still think it benefits us by giving us the chance for a 50-50 tie, rather than a certain 51-50 loss with a Pence installed repub.

The Senate holding over a vote the Democrats would lose, is of benefit to us IMO.

Telling the President that we will not confirm his nominee is Exactly what the repubs did to Garland. Is it not?

The repubs would be the ones wanting to go to court, so they could get their guy in and break 50-50 ties in their favor.

And if it took time to decide, it gets us closer to 2020, when we would hopefully take back the White House altogether.

The repubs would never want to go the line of succession route, because wouldn't that favor the Speaker of Democratic controlled House?

21. Not quite
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:08 PM
Sep 2018

If the VP becomes POTUS for any reason, he can nominate whoever he wants as his new VP as long as they meet the same requirements of being a natural born citizen, age 35 or older, and residing in the US for at least 14 years.

Then the nominee has to be confirmed by majority vote in both houses of congress.

genxlib

(5,507 posts)
17. As noted - VP rules
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:04 PM
Sep 2018

However, it makes for an intriguing proposition.

We would only need one Republican to switch. It seems unlikely but that is an enormous amount of power.

If I was Trump, would I be so sure that one of those marginal Senators wouldn't chuck it all. They would instantly be the most powerful person in the Democratic caucus

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,283 posts)
26. We would only need one Republican to switch, but ...
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:24 PM
Sep 2018

... they would only need one Democrat to switch.

Generally, the Repugs are more controlled, more conforming, more loyal to the party line. Will every sintle Dem vote against the Kavanaugh appointment?

genxlib

(5,507 posts)
44. Agreed
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 07:52 PM
Sep 2018

But switching of the Republican could turn the whole Senate. Switching of a Dem would just change the score of how much they win by. Since they vote in lock step, the difference between 51 versus 50 plus Pence is almost immaterial.

What you are saying about staying in line is true. But at some point, the Trump disaster is going to feel like a sinking ship. I would not put it past a purple state Republican from bailing and acting like he was just a misunderstood good guy who was willing to risk everything for the republic yada yada.

Just imagine how much leverage that person would have. I remember during the ACA how much leverage they gave guys like Leiberman to get a crucial swing vote on one bill. Imagine how much juice they would have to overturn the Senate as a whole.

onenote

(42,379 posts)
20. Power sharing arrangement
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:07 PM
Sep 2018

It would be interesting to see how things sort themselves out if the Senate ends up 50-50. That happened after the 2000 elections and even though the Republicans technically had the tie-breaker in VP Cheney, the Senate leadership agreed to a power sharing arrangement with respect to committees and resources. Specifically, Senate committees were equally divided between each party’s members and each party received equal numbers of staff and allotted funding.

To be clear, an even division on a committee vote wouldn't kill a nomination. The matter could still proceed to the floor without a favorable or unfavorable recommendation and since there is no filibuster for nominations, the matter could be voted upon and if the full senate split 50-50, Pence could cast the deciding vote.

David__77

(23,219 posts)
28. I would support the Willie Brown tactic in that case.
Wed Sep 12, 2018, 05:26 PM
Sep 2018

That is, all Democrats could support a collaborative Republican for majority leader, with the understanding that committees would be split. Even if the Republicans were given a majority on committees it could work out better.

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