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Al Franken was forced out of the Senate (Original Post) madaboutharry Sep 2018 OP
We can thank our own side for what happened to Al. FiveGoodMen Sep 2018 #1
+1000 OnDoutside Sep 2018 #12
Yes. It's especially galling right now when we need every powerful voice on Kavanaugh. NT enough Sep 2018 #15
Would love to have Al question Kavanagh (wouldn't we all?)! maddiemom Sep 2018 #87
**cough** **cough* UpInArms Sep 2018 #173
+ 1 ChiTownDenny Sep 2018 #39
yep samnsara Sep 2018 #64
+1. nt Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #102
The right wing set up a trap dflprincess Sep 2018 #174
He was forced out by Democrats Cartoonist Sep 2018 #2
taking the high road always leads to political hell elmac Sep 2018 #18
Actually it was Women's groups Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #119
Uh oh. SergeStorms Sep 2018 #148
It was? That's news I haven't heard before. Can you elaborate? KPN Sep 2018 #178
Not really Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #180
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2018 #166
Hard to say Cartoonist Sep 2018 #171
The World Is Exactly The Way They Want It LandOfHopeAndDreams Sep 2018 #3
Good analogy. maddiemom Sep 2018 #89
Kavanaugh AND Thomas! manor321 Sep 2018 #4
Sadly, it looks like Kavanaugh will be joining "long dong silver" G_j Sep 2018 #19
Still angry about it. badhair77 Sep 2018 #5
Me too eom MoonRiver Sep 2018 #6
Not to mention SHITLER the serial predator squatting in the White House. UTUSN Sep 2018 #7
Point of clarification BannonsLiver Sep 2018 #8
No, Franken CHOSE to quit dawg day Sep 2018 #9
He chose to quit AFTER his Democratic co workers went after him. Autumn Sep 2018 #11
Exactly, 38 of his Senate colleagues led by a NY Senator, demanded he resign. He was left with OnDoutside Sep 2018 #13
Resigning was the only option they left him. Autumn Sep 2018 #14
Yes they went to his office and held a gun to his head Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #112
Maybe in your world. Fact is that members of his "team" left him no choice but to resign. Autumn Sep 2018 #114
How? Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #116
Working with people who are insisting you resign is so the thing to do. Autumn Sep 2018 #118
People can insist that you to do anything Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #120
He probably decided he could no longer be effective. femmedem Sep 2018 #129
Most can. Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #132
Kirstin Gillibrand thought she was launching a presidential bid by leading the charge Still In Wisconsin Sep 2018 #17
On what basis do you say that a prospective Gillibrand Presidential bid is thwarted? brooklynite Sep 2018 #43
I'm not saying she can't or won't run because of this. My point was that I think Still In Wisconsin Sep 2018 #78
Add my 2cents to yours. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #93
Again what proof do you have for that? Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #115
Did you not read this part of what I wrote? Still In Wisconsin Sep 2018 #126
Opinions are usually based on facts Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #128
My magic 8-ball and my Ouija board. Still In Wisconsin Sep 2018 #141
LOL!!! nt Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #150
Posted without comment: #146 hlthe2b Sep 2018 #149
Read your own post Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #151
Stop the strawmen arguments. I said nothing of the kind. hlthe2b Sep 2018 #156
Not a strawman argument Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #164
Kirsten Gillibrand Pays The Price For Speaking Out Against Al Franken: 08/03/18 HuffPo hlthe2b Sep 2018 #146
That's exactly what she zentrum Sep 2018 #71
How do you know that? Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #121
What proof do you have of that? Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #113
Indeed, "Why do we eat our own?" I'm with you & the OP on this, Still in Wisconsin Hekate Sep 2018 #123
Please list the 27 other dems. 3Hotdogs Sep 2018 #27
More than half of all Democratic Senators called for him to step down. But only one will MrsCoffee Sep 2018 #31
Corey Booker for one, Chuck Schumer for another LakeArenal Sep 2018 #33
Booker is already getting on my nerves. 3Hotdogs Sep 2018 #40
Bookmarking. n/t rzemanfl Sep 2018 #56
Bookmarketing. maddiemom Sep 2018 #88
Also, atlas disndat Sep 2018 #105
Well, he's not a Democratic Senator ... Bernie Sanders called for him to resign SFnomad Sep 2018 #49
It's in the public record Hekate Sep 2018 #125
By NY Senator I assume Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #110
You are so right, Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #36
Keep saying it. I for one will NEVER buy it. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #30
It's a rare day when Republicans gang up on one of their own. VOX Sep 2018 #75
Don't even try that tired argument. He was forced out by a Gillibrand-led pack. brush Sep 2018 #83
No just a tired argument Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #122
Wrong! Gillebrand was the first one to come out against Franken. I heard her interviewed on radio... brush Sep 2018 #133
No that is wrong Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #136
I know what I heard. Both Franken and Clinton were part of the interview. brush Sep 2018 #139
Then you imagined it Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #142
You have no idea what you're talking about. Gillibrand even doubled down on it on "The View"... brush Sep 2018 #152
Sorry Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #162
Is there a language problem? You have no idea of what radio interview I heard. You may have heard... brush Sep 2018 #168
So which one were you referring to. Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #172
True too. mahina Sep 2018 #107
Well said!!! nt Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #108
Always remember. The Republicans will put Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court Autumn Sep 2018 #10
It's very hard to forget that some formerly great Dems cut out Al's heart . lark Sep 2018 #20
Or they did it because they thought it was the right thing to do at the time. MrsCoffee Sep 2018 #32
How could they think it was right? lark Sep 2018 #95
They were looking at eight separate allegations. MrsCoffee Sep 2018 #103
What really happened Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #127
Including my favorite, by a woman who wanted a photo with him calimary Sep 2018 #155
How do you define effective? Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #124
This is pay back for Bush vs. Gore Wellstone ruled Sep 2018 #38
IOKIYAAR* Still In Wisconsin Sep 2018 #16
Dems Were Conned dlk Sep 2018 #21
No, Al Franken quit Progressive dog Sep 2018 #22
He was facing a shunning. madaboutharry Sep 2018 #23
That's how see it, too. zeusdogmom Sep 2018 #24
There was no "Shunning", the Senate is not a cult. Progressive dog Sep 2018 #26
Hahaha. Funny. Not a cult. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #37
Franken was elected to the seat Progressive dog Sep 2018 #45
You can keep saying that if you like. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #54
You can blame anyone you like Progressive dog Sep 2018 #57
This is no attack and you know it. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #68
Using a resigned Democrat Progressive dog Sep 2018 #70
Then alert on me. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #72
Not worth the effort Progressive dog Sep 2018 #77
Spent an hour disparaging my opinion LakeArenal Sep 2018 #79
Nope, don't care enough Progressive dog Sep 2018 #80
Potato patato. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #85
Opinion is not fact. Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #137
I don't have to validate to you an opinion supported by over 100 people on this thread LakeArenal Sep 2018 #153
Once millions of people thought the Earth was flat. Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #163
We'll continue to target the ringleader, Gillibrand. That kind of gullible naivete in falling... brush Sep 2018 #86
Thanks. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #154
So now Democratic Senators are a "ring" Progressive dog Sep 2018 #184
The only ignorance evident is yours of what happened. brush Sep 2018 #185
Guess facts don't matter to some Progressive dog Sep 2018 #186
Still not getting it. He apologized for taking a gag photo, not for groping her. brush Sep 2018 #187
You are still having trouble understanding Progressive dog Sep 2018 #188
Ok, keep thinking that. Gillibrand still won't get close to the nomination... brush Sep 2018 #189
Just so I understand you dflprincess Sep 2018 #175
Exactly correct Progressive dog Sep 2018 #183
Belief is not fact. Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #135
Okay then. I take it all back. Not. LakeArenal Sep 2018 #157
That's mature. Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #165
He lost the confidence and support of his coalition. murielm99 Sep 2018 #28
Shunning? Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #131
that's not the way politics really works. unblock Sep 2018 #41
That is way over the top. Progressive dog Sep 2018 #50
my point is that a lot of the power of a senator comes from the respect and cooperation of others unblock Sep 2018 #60
Senators earn respect, it's not given to them Progressive dog Sep 2018 #65
actually, he did try to recover that respect unblock Sep 2018 #66
I missed the part where Franken tried to recover Progressive dog Sep 2018 #69
i get that you think he didn't fight for his job well, but what do you think he *should* have done? unblock Sep 2018 #73
The problem is not Fanken's resignation Progressive dog Sep 2018 #76
+1000 Power 2 the People Sep 2018 #25
Al Franken admitted culpability and, rightfully, resigned Tarc Sep 2018 #29
I just don't see how people could rationalize things any other way. Blue_true Sep 2018 #42
It's easy. You mischaracterize the allegations down to nothing and dismiss those mythology Sep 2018 #46
Yep. I regularly see that. nt Blue_true Sep 2018 #99
This message was self-deleted by its author Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #59
I'm so.pissed.off!!!!!!!!!!!!! workinclasszero Sep 2018 #34
We are not a democracy anymore or a nation of laws. Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #35
Franken: "I apologize"...Kavanaugh: "I deny it" brooklynite Sep 2018 #44
Also the number of accusers mythology Sep 2018 #47
But some of the accusations were downright ludicrous. My favorite was that Al Vinca Sep 2018 #48
Sad but true thegoose Sep 2018 #51
He was schumered mikeysnot Sep 2018 #52
I thought his book came out way before this whole stupid tragic series of non-events. mahina Sep 2018 #109
Read it mikeysnot Sep 2018 #134
Roger. That's a damn shame. mahina Sep 2018 #169
Just to save a minute if you were checking, the book was published in May 2017 and the BS storm mahina Sep 2018 #111
Of course he was ailsagirl Sep 2018 #53
I've said it many times... Al was forced out because he didn't defend himself Azathoth Sep 2018 #55
Yeah, sort of. Clearly leanne is a liar, works with and for rightwing filth Eliot Rosewater Sep 2018 #62
I think Al did asked for a hearing. disndat Sep 2018 #117
An ethics hearing is not due process Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #140
Franken took one for the team Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #138
We expect more from Democrats. guillaumeb Sep 2018 #58
And Clinton's nominees forced to drop out for failing to report undocumented employees ... eppur_se_muova Sep 2018 #61
Kavanaugh is bought and paid for by Trump and the GOP. Freethinker65 Sep 2018 #63
Ha! I was waiting for the predictable on this thread, and was not disappointed DFW Sep 2018 #67
Some wanted to burnish The Wizard Sep 2018 #74
What proof do you have Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #143
Don't forget it started with Roger Stone ratf*cking (via Leann Tweeden) cp Sep 2018 #81
AND...jim jordan still sits in congress spanone Sep 2018 #82
People need to quit bitching about Franken and move on pintobean Sep 2018 #84
No. We need to continue to speak up about the hypocrisy. Remember, it was the Dems who took YOHABLO Sep 2018 #90
No. We need to continue to speak up about the hypocrisy. Remember, it was the Dems who took YOHABLO Sep 2018 #91
Because that will really be helpful pintobean Sep 2018 #94
Time to forgive Al ..... Shoonra Sep 2018 #92
YES jazzcat23 Sep 2018 #96
Unfortunately, this is NOT what was discussed back then between ranking D members. LiberalLovinLug Sep 2018 #98
Good post! Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #145
I remember who the leaders of the pack were proglib217 Sep 2018 #97
I will never forget. Nor will I ever forgive. NurseJackie Sep 2018 #100
You got that right. It wasn't about those allegations at all. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #101
What proof do you have of any of that? Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #147
This. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #161
And none of that proves your allegations Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #167
Sure it is. It's basic deduction. Starting with...there was no sexual harassment. Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #176
Not deduction, assumption. Trumpocalypse Sep 2018 #179
+1000! Excellent post, thank you! scarletwoman Sep 2018 #170
republican hypocrisy liberal N proud Sep 2018 #104
Very true and deeply regretted right here. mahina Sep 2018 #106
I see more people on DU jumping to Kavanaugh's defense RandySF Sep 2018 #130
Nobody's defending Kavanaugh... brooklynite Sep 2018 #158
defense? qazplm135 Sep 2018 #177
You'll get no argument from me on that. SergeStorms Sep 2018 #144
And Jim Jordan hits the campaign trail in his bid for Speaker of the House and Autumn Sep 2018 #159
This what you get when there is no democratic government . Only Charles and David geretogo Sep 2018 #160
Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2018 #181
It was because of our own female Senators who called him out onetexan Sep 2018 #182

maddiemom

(5,106 posts)
87. Would love to have Al question Kavanagh (wouldn't we all?)!
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 04:33 PM
Sep 2018

Thanks, again, Sen. Gillibrand and CO. I didn't feel like paying my dues to the local branch of Democratic Women after that fiasco. Thankfully the locals didn't agree with her.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
174. The right wing set up a trap
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 11:50 PM
Sep 2018

and Gillibrand led the parade right into it.

Not that Minnesota sends that many delegates to the national convention, but she might as well not waste her time & money campaigning here during primary season (and we are going to a presidential primary). She is not well thought of among Minnesota Democrats.

 

elmac

(4,642 posts)
18. taking the high road always leads to political hell
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 12:57 PM
Sep 2018

it just doesn't work when you are fighting evil.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
119. Actually it was Women's groups
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:14 PM
Sep 2018

who were outraged by the Franken allegations and pushed behind the scenes for other Dems to condemn him.

Response to Cartoonist (Reply #2)

dawg day

(7,947 posts)
9. No, Franken CHOSE to quit
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 11:44 AM
Sep 2018

I like Al Franken and think he should still be in the senate. However, he quit. He didn't have to. Even when members of his own party called for him to quit, he could have refused. (They weren't going to expel him.)

Larry Craig refused to quit the Senate, even after promising to and pleading guilty to a sex offense. He just didn't quit. (later he didn't run for re-election... but he didn't quit.)
Diaper David Vitter-- same thing. Humiliated by sex scandal... didn't quit.

My point is-- Democrats, DON'T QUIT! Ride out the scandal. Be brazen like the GOPers. The voters elected you, not your fellow politicians.

Al Franken would still be senator if he hadn't quit-- if he'd stuck it out. We need our Democratic elected officials to refuse to quit.

A good example is Barney Frank. At the time, his "scandal" seemed pretty huge. He refused to quit, was re-elected many times, and was in fact the first national officeholder to marry a same-sex partner while in office! (So cool.) He finally retired a few years ago... but if he'd quit when the scandal broke, well, he would have deprived himself and his constituents of his career work.

I think Al should run again, proudly and bravely, but also with a vow to serve out his term as the voters want.



OnDoutside

(19,908 posts)
13. Exactly, 38 of his Senate colleagues led by a NY Senator, demanded he resign. He was left with
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 11:52 AM
Sep 2018

little choice.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
118. Working with people who are insisting you resign is so the thing to do.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:12 PM
Sep 2018
If you work at Loaf and Jug

femmedem

(8,188 posts)
129. He probably decided he could no longer be effective.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:37 PM
Sep 2018

His Democratic colleagues made it clear that he was a pariah. How can you effect change or lead righteous battles under those circumstances?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
132. Most can.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:41 PM
Sep 2018

But Franken took one for the teams because women's groups were outraged by the allegations and behind the scenes demanded that Dems denounce Franken or they would withhold support. So Franken is both a victim and a hero.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
17. Kirstin Gillibrand thought she was launching a presidential bid by leading the charge
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 12:54 PM
Sep 2018

to oust Franken. She got that wrong. Why must Democrats continue to eat our own?

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
43. On what basis do you say that a prospective Gillibrand Presidential bid is thwarted?
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:44 PM
Sep 2018

I have no idea if she'll run, or if I'll support her, but I see nothing that suggests that the aggregate Democratic electorate (as opposed to a bunch of bloggers) will care about this.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
78. I'm not saying she can't or won't run because of this. My point was that I think
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:39 PM
Sep 2018

her strident denunciations of Franken before all the evidence was available were an attempt at grandstanding in order to advance her presidential prospects, and that the tactic has at best fizzled, or at worst backfired among progressives.

Maybe she will still run, and maybe if she does many/most won't care about this... just my $0.02.

 

Still In Wisconsin

(4,450 posts)
126. Did you not read this part of what I wrote?
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:33 PM
Sep 2018

Quoting myself (I know, bad form)

"Maybe she will still run, and maybe if she does many/most won't care about this... just my $0.02."

It's my opinion. I don't have "proof." Sheesh, maybe try some decaf.

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
156. Stop the strawmen arguments. I said nothing of the kind.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:20 PM
Sep 2018

You asked for evidence that she was facing backlash and that MIGHT affect any future plans to run. That is EXACTLY what I provided to you.

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
146. Kirsten Gillibrand Pays The Price For Speaking Out Against Al Franken: 08/03/18 HuffPo
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:01 PM
Sep 2018
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kirsten-gillibrand-al-franken-2020_us_5b58994ae4b0b15aba945e79

‘I Think It Was A Big Mistake’

HuffPost spoke to dozens of elite donors who contributed significant amounts of money to Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign. Gillibrand, at one time, was part of the tight, loyal Clinton world. The Clintons were early supporters of hers and Hillary wrote the foreword to Gillibrand’s book.

Many of these donors said that either they were unhappy with Gillibrand or knew plenty of people who were. The 2020 race is still years away, but as donors start to shop around, her comments on Clinton and Franken could be a factor.

“I viewed it as self-serving, as opportunistic ― unforgivable in my view,” said Rosalind Fink, a New York donor. “Since then, I have not purposely attended any fundraiser where she was there. And there is absolutely no way I will support her.”

But the two-term senator cemented her prominence in the movement last year when she called out members of her own party. In November, she said that Bill Clinton should have resigned the presidency over his affair with Monica Lewinsky. And then the following month, she became the first Democratic senator to publicly call on then-Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) to go after multiple women accused him of engaging in sexual misconduct.

Franken announced his resignation the following day. --snip--
a threat who needed to leave immediately.

Gillibrand wasn’t the only senator to publicly call on Franken to step down, but she was the first (but only by minutes) in a wave of female senators ― who were eventually joined by many of their male colleagues on the same day, Dec. 6 ― to do so. Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), however, reportedly told Franken in private that he needed to go beforehand.

But Gillibrand has received the brunt of the blame for what happened, with many of her detractors saying the reason she came out against Franken was that she’s an “opportunist” who was positioning herself for a presidential run in 2020. Some Democratic Party donors have been reconsidering whether they would support her in a primary.

Most prominently, Gillibrand has attracted the ire of billionaire George Soros, who has long funded Democratic candidates and causes. Soros recently said he wasn’t sure whom he was supporting for 2020, but that it absolutely wouldn’t be Gillibrand. He accused her of going after Franken, “whom I admire,” to “improve her chances” for president.
--snip--
Fink said she condemned Franken’s behavior, but she believed the Senate should have investigated the allegations thoroughly before forcing him out.

“I think it was a big mistake,” said Irene Finel Honigman, another Clinton donor from New York, adding, “I was not that impressed with her to begin with. I think she certainly had potential, but as for many people, this kind of sealed the deal.”

Another donor, who like many others asked to remain anonymous in order to speak candidly, called Gillibrand a “ruthless opportunist.”

“That’s the knock on her, and that’s what this proved,” he said. “She saw an opportunity to be out front, and regardless of the ramifications, she took it.”

Susie Tompkins Buell, a major Democratic Party donor who has championed female politicians, also said she was reconsidering her support for senators who called for Franken to resign.

On social media, it’s easy to find anti-Gillibrand posts. No matter the issue, Gillibrand has detractors who circle back to what she did to Franken. --more--

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
71. That's exactly what she
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:18 PM
Sep 2018

...was doing. Now she'll probably run even though it's back fired, and isn't the launch party she planned.

Miss and need Franken so much now, much as ever.

Hekate

(90,202 posts)
123. Indeed, "Why do we eat our own?" I'm with you & the OP on this, Still in Wisconsin
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:25 PM
Sep 2018

It was a massive blunder for all concerned. Massive.

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
31. More than half of all Democratic Senators called for him to step down. But only one will
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:28 PM
Sep 2018

keep getting the blame for it.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
33. Corey Booker for one, Chuck Schumer for another
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:32 PM
Sep 2018

Kamala Harris for another. Those are the ones with political aspirations, including,
and definitely not exclusively, Gillibrand.

3Hotdogs

(12,210 posts)
40. Booker is already getting on my nerves.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:39 PM
Sep 2018

Especially the Spartacus bullshit from last week where he actually had nothing at stake.

disndat

(1,887 posts)
105. Also, atlas
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 06:57 PM
Sep 2018

Patrick Leahy, although he later said that he regretted it, or, had qualms. Don't forget everybody, Gillibrand was
once rated "A" by the NRA and came from a Republican background.

 

SFnomad

(3,473 posts)
49. Well, he's not a Democratic Senator ... Bernie Sanders called for him to resign
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:58 PM
Sep 2018

But for some reason, Bernie keeps getting a pass for it.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
30. Keep saying it. I for one will NEVER buy it.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:27 PM
Sep 2018

Railroaded.. Shivved...Shunned...Shut Out...

And was not much due to baseless claims but to political opportunity.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
75. It's a rare day when Republicans gang up on one of their own.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:32 PM
Sep 2018

I wish the Democratic Party would follow suit. Republicans are completely full of shit, but they stick together, for the most part. For Christ’s sakes, they’re sticking with Trump to the detriment of the entire country.

Yes, Al Frankes resigned— under duress, after 32 Democratic senators (13 women, 19 men) piled on Franken, demanding that he should resign as allegations of sexual harassment against him continued. Even Republican Sen. Susan Collins (who’s tolerating Trump quite well these days) called on Franken to quit.

What were Franken’s choices? Insist on staying, and causing a contentious intra-party fight and possible fracture, right at the exact time when sorely outnumbered Democrats had to be hyper-vigilant about Trump & his pack of destructive weirdos?

If I were Franken at that point, I’d probably have resigned, too. How can you stay and fight when 32 of your closest colleagues let you know flat-out that they do *not* have your back?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
122. No just a tired argument
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:21 PM
Sep 2018

But one with no proof behind it. But it has become an easy talking point for some. What they ignore is that several women's groups working behind the scenes were outraged by the Franken allegations and demanded that other Dems condemn him. And if anyone Senator orchestrated Franken's resignation it was Schumer.

brush

(53,475 posts)
133. Wrong! Gillebrand was the first one to come out against Franken. I heard her interviewed on radio...
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:43 PM
Sep 2018

when the allegation first broke and she even added that Bill Clinton should have stepped down also years ago—and she owed her being in the Senate to the Clintons as they backed her campaign when she was a nobody.

You better research it. She led the charge. The other senators got on the bandwagon later.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
136. No that is wrong
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:51 PM
Sep 2018

The interview where she was asked the question about Clinton was a month before the Franken controversy. And the other Senators who "jumped on the bandwagon" did so with in a few hours, some a few minutes. The only person who has the power to coordinate such an effort is Schumer.

brush

(53,475 posts)
139. I know what I heard. Both Franken and Clinton were part of the interview.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:55 PM
Sep 2018

But keep on defending that opportunist if you want. She has no chance at the Dem nomination for leading the charge to throw one of our most effective senators under the bus.

It's no secret who pushed it so why are you trying to deny it?

brush

(53,475 posts)
152. You have no idea what you're talking about. Gillibrand even doubled down on it on "The View"...
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:14 PM
Sep 2018

saying Al Franken was entitled to a hearing but not to her silence.

Just deal with it. She was the ring leader.

That kind of gullible naivete in falling so eagerly for Roger Stone's set-up of Al Franken should never be allowed to fade from memory.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/view-co-host-joy-behar-sen-kirsten-gillibrand-225031748.html

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
162. Sorry
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:31 PM
Sep 2018

You are wrong. First the Clinton interview was in November: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/17/kirsten-gillibrand-bill-clinton-democrats-247427
Her call on Franken to resign was in December: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/female-democratic-senators-call-on-al-franken-to-resign_us_5a281be8e4b0c2117627b73e

And to get 37 other Senators to also call on another Senator to resign, would make Gillibrand a very powerful and influential Senator. That give Gillibrand too much credit. The only Dem in the Senate with that kind of power is Schumer.

Finally it wasn't only the Tweeden allegations. There were several other women too.

And if Gillibrand was gullible and naïve then so were all other 37 Senators including Warren, Harris and Sanders.

brush

(53,475 posts)
168. Is there a language problem? You have no idea of what radio interview I heard. You may have heard...
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:43 PM
Sep 2018

one but you don't know what I heard. And as I said, she doubled down on her display of naivete on "The View".

Learn to deal with facts when they stare you in the face.

Now I've had enough of the silliness.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
10. Always remember. The Republicans will put Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 11:48 AM
Sep 2018

Last edited Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:00 PM - Edit history (1)

even though he attempted to rape a woman in school while his friend covered it up and was in the room. The Democrats forced out a well known and loved comedian who became an effective Senator for being a comedian. I can't get past that.

lark

(23,003 posts)
20. It's very hard to forget that some formerly great Dems cut out Al's heart .
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 12:59 PM
Sep 2018

They either did it to get rid of one of the most effective Dems, especially in hearings or
They did it to get rid of a potential competitor for President or
They did it out of not giving one hoot about truth but burnishing their METOO credentials.

None of the above reasons are good and my former fave for president in 2020 is now at the bottom of the list for good presidential candidates.

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
32. Or they did it because they thought it was the right thing to do at the time.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:30 PM
Sep 2018

But it's always easier to blame some wild conspiracy.

lark

(23,003 posts)
95. How could they think it was right?
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 05:17 PM
Sep 2018

There were multiple witnesses of the photo shoot, including the photographer, who exonerated Franken and sid the picture was altered. This was planned with Roger Stone and LeAnn used to work for Hannity. So it appears they jumped before getting any facts or paying any attention to the real facts in the news. Either way, yes, they fucked up and I sure hope they didn't conspire together.

MrsCoffee

(5,801 posts)
103. They were looking at eight separate allegations.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 06:14 PM
Sep 2018

I'm not saying it was handled right. I'm saying that it's highly unlikely that somehow there was a conspiracy among top democrats (and Bernie Sanders) and presidential hopefuls to round up eight women to come forward against Franken in order to "knock out the competition".

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
127. What really happened
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:36 PM
Sep 2018

was that women's groups were outraged about the Franken allegations and working behind the scenes demand that other Dems condemn Franken.

calimary

(80,700 posts)
155. Including my favorite, by a woman who wanted a photo with him
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:19 PM
Sep 2018

at some county fair, and then complained that “he touched my waist.”

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
124. How do you define effective?
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:26 PM
Sep 2018

By sponsoring and getting progressive legislation passed?

And other than in the Sessions confirmation hearings, what other hearings was he effective?

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
26. There was no "Shunning", the Senate is not a cult.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:23 PM
Sep 2018

Franken couldn't face the other Senators, so he fled from them.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
37. Hahaha. Funny. Not a cult.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:36 PM
Sep 2018

No it’s serious business.

So being conned by Replicans and political opportunity,the most popular leader is booted out?

Popular leaders are rarely booted out of the cult.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
45. Franken was elected to the seat
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:47 PM
Sep 2018

and he chose to leave. The majority of Democratic Senators asked him to leave but had no way of forcing him out. Franken is gone. He chose to quit.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
54. You can keep saying that if you like.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:07 PM
Sep 2018

Those who disagree will always disagree.

What I believe is Al Franken would have been a great candidate in 2020 to compete fairly with others. Now he won’t.

Some, including me, believe it was political opportunity that did him in.

Some, including me, will continue to stand by Al and blame every name on the list.

Most particularly Gillibrand.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
57. You can blame anyone you like
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:11 PM
Sep 2018

but Gillibrand is a Democratic Senator and was supported by thirty more Democratic Senators in her request that Franken resign. You might want to find another place to continue your attacks on Democrats.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
68. This is no attack and you know it.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:08 PM
Sep 2018

It’s an honest opinion held by me and many others. All of us have been on Du for some time.

Gillibrand is no victim. She’s a politician that in my opinion made a blunder that has created consequences.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
70. Using a resigned Democrat
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:14 PM
Sep 2018

as an excuse to attack other elected Democrats is not acceptable to me. Gillibrand stood up for her beliefs. Of course Gillibrand is a politician, she's a Senator and that's a political office. She is also a Democrat and she hasn't been asked by other Democratic Senators to resign.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
79. Spent an hour disparaging my opinion
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:40 PM
Sep 2018

Can’t take one second to alert?

Okay, then I guess our dialogue is over.
See you next time to discuss our opinions on the next Franken support thread.

It was a Franken support thread you know.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
80. Nope, don't care enough
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:53 PM
Sep 2018

and we did not have a dialogue.
Franken is no longer an office holder and his resignation makes it unlikely that he will become one. He won't be prosecuted since he hasn't been accused of a crime. His support threads seem to be a way to disparage the 31 Democratic Senators who didn't resign. There are probably over a million Democrats in Minnesota who have never resigned from an elective office and I have yet to see multiple support threads for any of them.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
85. Potato patato.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 04:17 PM
Sep 2018

We have come full circle. Think what you want, many folks including me, think Franken was railroaded.

Again, see you next time on a Franken appreciation thread where we can continue our potato....er... patato.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
153. I don't have to validate to you an opinion supported by over 100 people on this thread
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:15 PM
Sep 2018

Never said I have facts. You don’t have all the facts yet you have opinions.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
163. Once millions of people thought the Earth was flat.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:35 PM
Sep 2018

The number of people that believe something doesn't make it true. So the number of people that agree with you opinion, doesn't validate it. Only facts can validate an opinion. So why don't you post some facts that do.

brush

(53,475 posts)
86. We'll continue to target the ringleader, Gillibrand. That kind of gullible naivete in falling...
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 04:22 PM
Sep 2018

so eagerly for Roger Stone's set-up of Al Franken should never be allowed to fade from memory.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
154. Thanks.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:17 PM
Sep 2018

Love how people pick a quarrel on an appreciation thread for someone they don’t support.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
184. So now Democratic Senators are a "ring"
Tue Sep 18, 2018, 07:42 PM
Sep 2018

and have a "ringleader". That sounds like a rather ignorant conspiracy theory to me.

brush

(53,475 posts)
185. The only ignorance evident is yours of what happened.
Tue Sep 18, 2018, 09:31 PM
Sep 2018

She fell for Roger Stone, Hannity and Tweeden's set-up of Al Franken.

Guess you weren't here when this was discussed on multiple threads.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
186. Guess facts don't matter to some
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 09:42 AM
Sep 2018

if they can blame a Democrat whatever happens.
Thought I'd add a quote from Franken with the author's comment.

Franken hasn’t endorsed any of this. He actually apologized to Tweeden: “I don’t know what was in my head when I took that picture, and it doesn’t matter. There’s no excuse. I look at it now and I feel disgusted with myself. It isn’t funny. It’s completely inappropriate. It’s obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture.”

Even more important, this theory doesn’t address the claims of the seven other women.


The article is here. https://www.vox.com/2018/5/21/17352230/al-franken-accusations-resignation-democrats-leann-tweeden-kirsten-gillibrand

brush

(53,475 posts)
187. Still not getting it. He apologized for taking a gag photo, not for groping her.
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 10:30 AM
Sep 2018

Get real. He was still a comedian then. Hamming it up for a photo is what they do. And seriously, who's going to grope someone in front of several witnesses and a photographer?

And if you want a quote, how about repug dirty trickster Roger Stone commenting just before it all broke with the Tweeden photo: "It's Al Franken's time in the barrel."

You need to go back and research it all so you're more informed.

You'll find for one thing a photo of Tweeden herself groping the ass of a guitar player on stage in the same USO tour in front of thousands of service members.

You're late too the party. The whole thing was a repug hatchet job on Franken and Gillibrand fell for it. It was a good way to get rid of a strong contender for the 2020 presidential nomination also. Ambition and gullibility is not a good combination in a candidate. Also check out her appearance on "The View" where she doubled down on her throwing of Franken under the bus.

You really need to catch up.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
188. You are still having trouble understanding
Wed Sep 19, 2018, 11:47 PM
Sep 2018

that the problem is what Franken considered to be a "gag". He got it and resigned.
The whole thing is a hatchet job on Gillibrand and 30 other Democratic Senators.

brush

(53,475 posts)
189. Ok, keep thinking that. Gillibrand still won't get close to the nomination...
Thu Sep 20, 2018, 09:17 AM
Sep 2018

because of what she did.

dflprincess

(28,057 posts)
175. Just so I understand you
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 11:56 PM
Sep 2018

it was okay for Gillibrand and the other Democrats to attack fellow Democrat, Al Franken, by demanding (it was not a request) that he resign. But it is not okay for rank and file Democrats to criticize those Democrats for attacking Al?

How about those Democrats in Minnesota who elected Al to represent them, can we get a pass on this because we're all still pretty pissed about how this went down.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
183. Exactly correct
Tue Sep 18, 2018, 07:41 PM
Sep 2018

Franken is no longer an elected Democrat, he quit and ran. Those Democrats that voted for Al have every right to be angry at Al for being a quitter. They have no right to blame others for what Al chose to do. Gillibrand and those other Democrats (who didn't have multiple women accusing them) had no way to enforce any "demands" on Franken.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
135. Belief is not fact.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:44 PM
Sep 2018

You can believe the earth is flat and get millions to agree with you. That doesn't make it fact. Conservatives base their opinions on belief, we have a higher standard or we are no better than they are.

And there is no proof that either Franked or Gillibrand planned to run in 2020.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
157. Okay then. I take it all back. Not.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:24 PM
Sep 2018

You can go hang up another Franken supporter for the next hour with your opinions of their opinions

Bit repetiive but you are free to to be so

murielm99

(30,657 posts)
28. He lost the confidence and support of his coalition.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:24 PM
Sep 2018

He knows how power works. He knew it was time to quit.

It breaks my heart to say that. But I don't think we have seen the last of Al!

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
131. Shunning?
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:39 PM
Sep 2018

I don't think Franken was such a snowflake. The truth is Franken took one for the teams because women's groups were outraged by the allegations and behind the scenes that Dems denounce Franken or they would without support. So Franken is both a victim and a hero.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
41. that's not the way politics really works.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:40 PM
Sep 2018

yes, he could have held his seat and been stripped of any privileges and be treated like a first-year senator with little opportunity to ever get a turn to even speak and to have all his proposals ignored by his colleagues.

but yeah, he still would have had the seat, the salary, and the vote.

all the while, the media would have continued to malign him and he would have had zero other senators defending him.

they might well have expelled him altogether.



he actually has a far better shot at rehabilitating his image this way. spotlight is off and the passage of time helps, especially if the story of injustice sinks in.

he may yet return to politics, who knows.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
50. That is way over the top.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:00 PM
Sep 2018

Senators don't get expelled. If not one out of 99 Senators would have defended Franken, then he probably was right to quit.
Most of the media reports facts, if the facts malign Franken, then he was right to quit.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
60. my point is that a lot of the power of a senator comes from the respect and cooperation of others
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:16 PM
Sep 2018

if they take that away, the job isn't worth nearly as much.


i agree that expulsion is rare -- hasn't happened since the civil war -- though part of the reason is that senators who become pariahs resign first. still, i agree that they would more likely have just left him to flounder in a sea of bad press.

either way, he wouldn't have been doing himself or his constituency any favors by staying under the circumstances.


what's really infuriating is the gaping chasm between the standards to which democrats are held compared to the complete lack of standards that apply to republicans.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
65. Senators earn respect, it's not given to them
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:41 PM
Sep 2018

because you think it should be. Franken lost the respect of a majority of the other Democratic Senators. He didn't try to recover that respect, he resigned.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
66. actually, he did try to recover that respect
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:50 PM
Sep 2018

and he got even more pushback and realized that he wasn't going to be able to earn back that respect while also holding on to his seat.

he's continuing to try to recover that respect as best he can.


not sure what your point is in insisting that that he quit rather than being forced out.

yes, technically that was his call, but are you suggesting he should have done something differently, or that staying would have led to a different or better outcome?

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
69. I missed the part where Franken tried to recover
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:08 PM
Sep 2018

the other Senators respect. He did make an ambiguous defenses about how he remembered things and claimed that some of the allegations were "simply not true." That is not a defense, in fact, it implies that some were true.
If Franken hadn't resigned, he would still be a Senator. He might even have been elected to a third term, but that would be up to the voters in Minnesota.

Progressive dog

(6,862 posts)
76. The problem is not Fanken's resignation
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:32 PM
Sep 2018

The problem is the people who blame other Democrats for Franken's resignation. Franken is gone, blaming Gillibrand or the other 30 Democratic Senators won't bring him back, but it might hurt those Democratic Senators.

Tarc

(10,472 posts)
29. Al Franken admitted culpability and, rightfully, resigned
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:27 PM
Sep 2018

It doesn't matter how distasteful of a human being the accuser is, or how much we like the accused. What he did wasn't right, and I am glad that he did the honorable thing in accepting te blame resigning,and moving on.

I hope Franken chooses to run again someday,and I hope he wins. But this situation was his own fault.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
42. I just don't see how people could rationalize things any other way.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:40 PM
Sep 2018

I love my family, but if I found out that a brother had sexually or otherwise molested an unwilling person, I would want the full force of justice to come down on him.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
46. It's easy. You mischaracterize the allegations down to nothing and dismiss those
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:51 PM
Sep 2018

Then you whataboutism somebody else. People are very good at justifying things they want to believe. My personal favorite was the person who said even if Franken confessed to everything, they would believe it was because his life was threatened.

Response to Tarc (Reply #29)

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
35. We are not a democracy anymore or a nation of laws.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:35 PM
Sep 2018

Not now, we might get back to that, but we are not now.

If this criminal fuck goes onto the court, we either reverse that somehow or we stop being America.

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
44. Franken: "I apologize"...Kavanaugh: "I deny it"
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:45 PM
Sep 2018

Do you possibly see a difference there?

Not saying he's telling the truth, but it's certainly a better starting point to try and hold on.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
47. Also the number of accusers
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:54 PM
Sep 2018

8 is a lot more than 1. Oh and I recall a lot of people dismissing unnamed accusers then. I don't see that now for some reason.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
48. But some of the accusations were downright ludicrous. My favorite was that Al
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 01:57 PM
Sep 2018

touched a lady's waist while they had their photo taken together.

 

thegoose

(3,115 posts)
51. Sad but true
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:04 PM
Sep 2018

This corrupt bastard will sit on the Supreme Court to protect Dump when all of his filthy crimes are revealed. This is awful.

mikeysnot

(4,755 posts)
52. He was schumered
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:05 PM
Sep 2018

Chuck did nothing to help with his campaign, nor the recount, or his reelection.

If you read Al's book "Lion in the Senate" he spells it out without exactly stating it.

In his subtle Al Franken sarcastic way.



mahina

(17,506 posts)
109. I thought his book came out way before this whole stupid tragic series of non-events.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:02 PM
Sep 2018

I bought it to support him when it came out but haven’t read it yet. Will do

mikeysnot

(4,755 posts)
134. Read it
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:44 PM
Sep 2018

and get back to me. It is a quick two day read.

My points will make more sense after you read it.

Yes his book was on his experience with the DNC, his election, recount and reelection and time in the senate, way before the ratfuck hit job.

mahina

(17,506 posts)
111. Just to save a minute if you were checking, the book was published in May 2017 and the BS storm
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:06 PM
Sep 2018

Was in November. I still need to read the book and I’m sure your point is solid, thanks for passing on that insight.

Azathoth

(4,603 posts)
55. I've said it many times... Al was forced out because he didn't defend himself
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:09 PM
Sep 2018

When you push back *HARD* on untrue allegations, you survive. Even if the allegations are to some degree true, you still get your side of the story out there.

Republicans play this game far better than Democrats.

Eliot Rosewater

(31,097 posts)
62. Yeah, sort of. Clearly leanne is a liar, works with and for rightwing filth
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:17 PM
Sep 2018

and he immediately said her version of that tongue situation NOT true but he did so in such a respectful way that it went without much notice.

He did nothing, to anybody, ever.

disndat

(1,887 posts)
117. I think Al did asked for a hearing.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:12 PM
Sep 2018

He wanted due process, but, the Democratic gang couldn't stampede on to the #MeToo movement fast enough.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
140. An ethics hearing is not due process
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:56 PM
Sep 2018

It is a determination if congressional ethics rules have been violated, not a finding of guilt or innocence.

And why is no one upset that John Conyers was forced out without due process?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
138. Franken took one for the team
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:53 PM
Sep 2018

because many Women's groups demanded that he be denounced. So Franken was really a hero.

eppur_se_muova

(36,227 posts)
61. And Clinton's nominees forced to drop out for failing to report undocumented employees ...
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:17 PM
Sep 2018

... something that virtually every Uglican-owned company does on a regular basis.

Freethinker65

(9,934 posts)
63. Kavanaugh is bought and paid for by Trump and the GOP.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:21 PM
Sep 2018

Franken could have insisted on going through an ethics investigation where he most likely would have won, but he had few members of his own party's support and a few Democratic opportunists working against him.

I wish he would have fought for his seat. He was a master at cutting through the bullshit during congressional hearings.

DFW

(54,056 posts)
67. Ha! I was waiting for the predictable on this thread, and was not disappointed
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 02:59 PM
Sep 2018

Like flies to rotting fruit, the Franken-detractors who only show up on DU for that purpose came a-buzzing.

The OP was spot on.

The Wizard

(12,482 posts)
74. Some wanted to burnish
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:28 PM
Sep 2018

their Me Too creds. Gillibrand made a political miscalculation because she thought it would help her win the Democratic nomination in 2020. She led the charge and marginalized herself as a cheap opportunist willing to knife another Democrat in the back without a fair hearing. And Schumer will always be a weenie.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
143. What proof do you have
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:00 PM
Sep 2018

of your allegations? Please provide links.

And Franken asked for an ethics hearing which is a determination if congressional ethics rules have been violated, not a finding of guilt or innocence.

And why is no one upset that John Conyers was forced out without a fair hearing?

cp

(6,543 posts)
81. Don't forget it started with Roger Stone ratf*cking (via Leann Tweeden)
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 03:57 PM
Sep 2018

Dem senators betrayed him. Will never, ever vote for Gillibrand.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
84. People need to quit bitching about Franken and move on
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 04:15 PM
Sep 2018

What happened, happened. Dragging up the past and bitching about current Senators is just divisive bullshit.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
90. No. We need to continue to speak up about the hypocrisy. Remember, it was the Dems who took
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 04:55 PM
Sep 2018

Franken down. We lost a damn good Senator and voice for progressives.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
91. No. We need to continue to speak up about the hypocrisy. Remember, it was the Dems who took
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 04:58 PM
Sep 2018

Franken down. We lost a damn good Senator and voice for progressives. ( and that's the facts, and not in any way demeaning the Democratic Party )

Shoonra

(518 posts)
92. Time to forgive Al .....
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 05:00 PM
Sep 2018

Al Franken supposedly committed some frat boy misbehavior while he was a USO entertainer, including pantomiming grabbing one woman's breasts (apparently this was just a pose for a photo and he did not make actual contact) and trying to steal a kiss from another.

OK, frat boy behavior but it was a USO entertainment tour and with other members of the USO troop. It wasn't a crime and, in the Senate, Franken was a model of decorum. Isn't it time we gave Al Franken a mulligan?

jazzcat23

(176 posts)
96. YES
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 05:36 PM
Sep 2018

We really need to get him back, he rarely backed down from the goopers. (GOP'ers) and we need that now!

 

proglib217

(88 posts)
97. I remember who the leaders of the pack were
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 05:37 PM
Sep 2018

And, should any of them seek the nomination in 2020, they will have lost my support.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
101. You got that right. It wasn't about those allegations at all.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 06:10 PM
Sep 2018

It was about Franken getting too popular and high profile, when there were others who were anointed to become Presidential candidates. On a popular talk show, the host mentioned that people were asking Franken to run for President. That's what his being pushed out was about.

Gillibrand immediately demanded he leave, and others started jumping on the bandwagon almost immediately. When Schumer joined the fray, Franken had to leave. For nothing but that some of the base liked him too much, saw him as a leader too much, saw him as effective in the hearings. A fatal crime, to some.

I won't forget. I won't forgive. Putting one's own personal interests above the country's or the Democratic Party voters...that's not what a good leader does. And those who jumped on the bandwagon....not what a leader does.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
161. This.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:11 PM
Sep 2018

Sen. Robert Menendez avoided conviction in a federal corruption trial, but violated federal law and Senate rules in accepting unreported gifts from a friend and political ally. The Ethics Committee "admonished" him. Federal law violations.

I'm sure they chastised him publicly, right? And a slew of Democrats took to the podium on national tv asking him to resign, followed quickly by Schumer stating the same. Right? Wrong. Not a peep. No problemo. This was a Senator who had gone through a federal felony corruption trial...which means there was at least some evidence of it. Then a long Senate Ethics Committee investigation. No problemo with that.

Second, the "allegations" against Franken were ridiculous. I take allegations of harassment seriously. But in this case, it started with a Republican female on a USO tour, who had been twerking by pressing her butt against a male co-singer, who lodged the charges against Franken ON FOX. She has close Republican affiliations. This is possibly the same old Republican trick of attacking Democrats, to get rid of the effective ones. The right had been railing on Franken because of getting to the bottom of Sessions' lies about Russian meetings at the investigative hearings. So they set about to get rid of him.

Here is a conservative reporter's view of how Franken was unfairly treated about LeeAnn Tweeden's USO tour "allegations." https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/11/30/al-franken-scandal-slow-down-sexual-assault-accusations-john-ziegler-column/886722001/

There were several other claims, which were preposterous. One was downright silly. A fan asks Franken to do a selfie with her. He happily agrees and put his hand around her waist as they both lean in for the pic. He grabs some flesh on her waist, she said. That's it. Come on. That minimizes real sexual harassment. As Bill Maher said, there's nothing sexual about that. He adds..have you seen how Biden acts with people? Then shows pics of Biden hugging the public, kissing people, holding on too long. He jokes, "Biden is like a Great Dane coming at you because he smells bacon."

The point is...

NONE OF THE SO-CALLED ALLEGATIONS WAS SERIOUSLY LOOKED AT OR VETTED IN ANY WAY. None of them. Nothing. Nada. Gillibrand jumped on them shortly after an appearance on a talk show where he was asked if he would run for President. That's when the Democrats decided he had to go. The NORMAL PROCEDURE is an ethics investigation.

Franken, in his affable way, had responded merely that women's allegations need to be taken seriously, etc., etc., and as he said in his farewell speech, he now knows that that was taken by some as an admission, when it was not. He then denied each and every accusation.

Franken had started the talk show circuit and was immensely popular. He also had been given spotlight in the news for his questions at the investigative Senate hearings.

So Gillibrand and others took care of it swiftly, backed by Schumer. No more competition for the spotlight or potential Presidential candidacy. Not that Franken had that in his sights. He didn't.

If you want conclusive evidence, there has to be an investigation of some sort. There wasn't. Nothing. Nada. He was merely gotten rid of in a hurry. To make way for the several who have Presidential aspirations, backed by Schumer.

If it were ethics or wrongdoing that was the problem, then they would have gotten rid of Menendez long ago...before his trial for felony federal corruption charges. And that's the name of that tune.

I will not forget it. I will not forgive it. I hope Franken runs again and is installed in the Senate, where he should be. The country is being harmed by him not sitting on the investigative committee.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
176. Sure it is. It's basic deduction. Starting with...there was no sexual harassment.
Sat Sep 15, 2018, 12:16 AM
Sep 2018

Since there was no sexual harassment, what was Gillibrand, Harris, Schumer, & the others talking about? Why the insistence he defy the voters and leave his elected office? Remember...there was no sexual harassment, in the first place.

You say, "But there WAS sexual harassment." I say...Oh, really? Prove it. Oops. There was no investigation of any sort of any of the statements by the women. So they can't be proven. That's only for those that are even something like harassment. Some don't amount to harassment at all, even if true.

Since there was no sexual harassment, what was the reason Gillibrand (who was said to have Presidential aspirations), what was the reason that she demanded he leave the Senate? In such a hurry that the Senate wasn't going to follow normal procedure of the Ethics Committee investigating it.

As Sherlock Holmes would say, "Simple deduction, my dear Watson. Elementary."

I'll leave you with this little gem: Roger Stone said that "it's Al Franken's time in the barrel," before the allegations were made by the Republican female, Leeann Tweeden. So he knew before the Democrats knew.

Another little gem: She said that Franken had written a sketch for the USO show where he had to kiss her. She was offended by that, that he just wanted to kiss her and had written that because it was her. She asked him not to kiss her...or something like that. Fact check: Franken didn't write that sketch. Another man did, and the sketch wasn't for her. The sketch, with the kiss, was performed a number of times with different entertainers in different locations.





scarletwoman

(31,893 posts)
170. +1000! Excellent post, thank you!
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:49 PM
Sep 2018

You speak for me - I so appreciate what you've written!

I will never stop feeling enraged over how Franken was railroaded.

I'm a Minnesotan, Al was MY senator. How dare those petty schemers nullify MY vote!

mahina

(17,506 posts)
106. Very true and deeply regretted right here.
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 06:57 PM
Sep 2018

What a staggering loss for the future. I’m still angry at Gillenbrand and all who assisted her, and suspect her going forward in all actions.

It was absurd, on the level with Howard Dean’s scream, fabricated out of thin air by shadow figures seeking to defeat us.

RandySF

(57,659 posts)
130. I see more people on DU jumping to Kavanaugh's defense
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 07:39 PM
Sep 2018

Than I ever saw giving Franken a benefit of a doubt.

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
158. Nobody's defending Kavanaugh...
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:33 PM
Sep 2018

Just pointing out that he’s denied the charges up till know which gives him a story Inger platform on which to get and stay.

qazplm135

(7,447 posts)
177. defense?
Sat Sep 15, 2018, 12:25 AM
Sep 2018

I don't think anyone is jumping to his defense. Saying, I need more than an anonymous accusation is not leaping to his defense, it's common sense and fairness. Plenty of folks are totally prepared to believe her on her accusation alone, but not an anonymous one.

Autumn

(44,762 posts)
159. And Jim Jordan hits the campaign trail in his bid for Speaker of the House and
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 08:37 PM
Sep 2018

campaigning for other Republicans. How's that for an upside down world?

geretogo

(1,281 posts)
160. This what you get when there is no democratic government . Only Charles and David
Fri Sep 14, 2018, 09:08 PM
Sep 2018

Koch were appointed by the God's to rule us .

Response to madaboutharry (Original post)

onetexan

(12,994 posts)
182. It was because of our own female Senators who called him out
Sat Sep 15, 2018, 11:01 AM
Sep 2018

And as a result forced him to resign. Im still miffed over that. I wont forget kirsten gillibrand's hypocracy.

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