Looters raid Family Dollar, police pull back at management request

[Dennis Donovan]

http://www.wect.com/story/39097792/watch-looters-raid-family-dollar-police-pull-back-at-management-request

WILMINGTON, NC (WECT) -
While thousands of people struggle to overcome the damage left behind by Hurricane Florence, citizens in Wilmington broke into the closed Family Dollar Saturday on Greenfield Street to steal anything they could find.

WECT reporter Chelsea Donovan arrived Friday to find dozens of people carrying items back to the public housing community Houston Moore.

"When we came over the hill on Greenfield Street, you could just see people everywhere," Chelsea Donovan said.

Donovan and another WECT employee walked to the front entrance and back exit of the store at the intersection of Greenfield and South 13th Streets, witnessing people wearing masks and carrying out various items, including paper goods.

What Donovan didn't see was law enforcement and there's a reason.

Wilmington police sent out a statement Saturday afternoon that they were told by management of the Family Dollar to stand down after receiving reports of looting at the store.

<snip>

Video at link. The reporter is acting pretty vile accusing the looters, carrying food, of stealing...

[Trust Buster]

1. Horrible people that take advantage during an emergency. I hope the police identify them on

Video and prosecute to the fullest.

[hexola]

3. I don't - I hope its a step forward in disaster management - maybe Family Dollar should GIVE

away ALL their stock during this kind of emergency...

Consider it a donation - just like the water Wal-Mart is bragging about shipping down there.

Its FAMILY DOLLAR - the most expensive thing in that store is probably a DVD player for 25 dollars.

Giving away all the store stock in the name of disaster relief would be a good thing.

Plus - it might curb looting.

[Trust Buster]

9. That would not be your decision or the looter's decision. Theft is NOT a donation. Prosecute.

[hexola]

13. Im suggesting a FAMILY DOLLAR consider a new policy.

FD Management would make the call.

[mountain grammy]

66. Wow, good for you..

People with nothing to lose have lost it all.. lock em up say you! Glad you're not the store management who probably lives in the area and actually cares about his customer base.. Really the only reason they're there is because they lack the means to get out. But damn, you go ahead right ahead and shame them along with this reporter.

The management of this store is noble.

[brush]

113. So often when it's white people they're described as trying to survive...

when it's black and brown they're looting.

Looting what, a flood damaged store whose contents are to be written off by insurance as lost?

Common sense instead of harsh judgement needed.

[Trust Buster]

126. The video does not show any evidence that they lost it all. The Dollar Store had no water around it.

Taking advantage of an emergency situation is pretty horrible IMO.

[msongs]

137. the neighborhood in question was not flooded nt

[EX500rider]

159. "People with nothing to lose have lost it all." How exactly?

The vid showed the looters running back across the street to their apparently undamaged apartments. What did they lose other then the power being off till it gets fixed? (assuming their power is off)

[hexola]

76. Meaningless reply - "your decision" - what are you talking about?

I'm suggesting avoiding the looting situation by donating supplies (store stock) to the relief effort - just like Wal-mart is doing.

If a store knows its going to loose its stock to flood damage - this would be sensible thing to do - and would diminish the looting effect.

[KCDebbie]

112. Yes! Prosecute! And clog our legal system with

Non-violent petty criminal cases that COULD be resolved with a suspended sentence or probation...

But these cases could also result in harsh prison sentences to be served in for-profit prisons...

[MuseRider]

61. Agreed and thank you

for saying that so quickly. We always move to first punish those in dire need, then we prosecute them and then they are in worse shape until they end up cooling their heels in jail. Then the next family member goes out to try to feed the kids or grandma or themselves. If a DVD player happens to get picked up by someone that is too bad BUT these stores are run by people in corporate who could donate a tiny fraction of their wealth to any community and stop much of the need for looting during a disaster.

This sounds to me like a bigger argument like the one you get when you give someone on the street money or whatever you might have that they say they need. I really do not care what they use it for. I don't have to beg for anything so I am lucky enough to share. Big UPS for this Family Dollar store for showing compassion rather than greed.

[mountain grammy]

64. It does seem that the management for this store agrees.

this is the customer base for the store. These people are poor and need supplies.. Family Dollar has few if any big ticket items. I'm sure the store management is looking at it's customers and thinking they don't deserve to be criminalized for being poor.

The reporter is shaming poor people while the management of this Family Dollar told police to stand down.. I cried when I read that.. This Family Dollar LIVES in this neighborhood. Calling for the arrests of it's customers is just wrong..

[Hermit-The-Prog]

108. thank you

Wish your post could have been the first in this thread.

[tosh]

151. Yeah!

I’ll second that. That post should have been at the top of the thread.

[appleannie1943]

85. It would be better though if they had handed things out. A lot less mess to clean up that way.

[Dennis Donovan]

5. They were taking food...

[Trust Buster]

7. Did you watch the video ? It was pure looting while disguising their identities.

[hexola]

10. What is "pure looting"?

If you were forced to a situation where you had to loot - you might cover your face.

[Trust Buster]

14. Did you watch the video ? No one was forcing anyone. Just people taking advantage during an

Emergency.

[hexola]

16. Yes - Im familiar with the concept of looting

Thank you

[pnwmom]

141. How do you know they weren't terrified of not having food around in an emergency?

[Trust Buster]

142. How do you know they were ?

[pnwmom]

146. You made the affirmative statement: "No one was forced to do the looting."

I didn't make a claim like that.

And you were wrong because you don't know whether circumstances forced them to or not.

[Trust Buster]

150. I watched the video. These individuals were taking advantage of a situation at a time of emergency

[pnwmom]

167. What about the video proves that?

[moriah]

79. Because a camera was shoved in his face.

I'm sure he walked the entire way there and back with his head in his shirt.

[Kaleva]

117. People can go many days without food.

I can understand the taking of water, baby formula and food, sanitary napkins and toilet paper but most anything else would be theft.

[hexola]

2. Headline is fake news

From the article a few paragraphs down

Assistant Police Chief Mitch Cunningham said officers were talking with the owner, who initially said he didn't want to pursue charges when the arrived on scene. Cunningham said officers consulted with the district attorney and the owner ultimately agreed to press charges.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. I think it's important that he initially didn't want to...

[hexola]

6. But civilians don't give "stand down" orders to police

A bit of spin in this article for sure...

But - yes - Im sure the owner saw the waste for resources pursuing looters in an state of emergency.

[NutmegYankee]

26. Probably figured they would just deal with insurance.

I live out in the sticks and my nearest grocery is a country market, a small 8 aisle IGA grocery with a gas station owned by an immigrant from India. When we lose power in a major storm for days he can’t run the freezers and refrigerators off generator, so he has to toss the meat and dairy and file an insurance claim. Since he’s the only gas station for miles, he runs the pumps and lights on generator to supply the community.

[LiberalArkie]

86. The owner knew that everything in the store would have to taken to the dump.

Why not let it feed the people before it went bad.

[Igel]

102. It's a question.

But often if you're going to ask insurance to pay for something damaged by a storm, you need to document that it was actually there and damaged. If it's all taken away, then there's no documentation and the insurance company balks.

And if you're going to ask an insurance company to pay for theft or shrinkage, you need to document that it was actually stolen and that you didn't open the store and give it away. Theft =/= gift.

And if you're going to deduct shrinkage and theft as business losses on your tax forms, you'd better not be on record saying, "Here, I'm giving it away to individuals." It's not even a charitable donation at that point.

It's up to individuals whether to donate or not. If they do, that's their call. If they don't, that's their call. Dollar General's management aren't my employees or my subordinates, that I should judge them.

[LiberalArkie]

111. There is a lot of competition between Dollar General and Family Dollar

I would image that the owner of that store sees major loss of customers when they have to go to court and testify against their customers versus the good will of just letting them have the stuff.

The family Dollar store that I frequent used to keep the cat flea collars locked up because people stole them. Management told them to put them out in the pet supplies area despite being shop lifted.

[EX500rider]

162. Most of the stores items are non-perishable goods.

Family Dollar does not have a huge refrigerated section or lots of fresh produce like a large grocery store.

[mountain grammy]

68. Yes, that is important..

[Catherine Vincent]

116. Interesting...

I wonder what the DA told the owner that persuaded him to change his mind?

[alphafemale]

8. What would you call it?

And I doubt that much if any of what they are stealing is food.

I won't give a moral pass on theft based on the thief's address.

Can we give them YOUR address?

Maybe you will allow them to clear out all your possessions?

We can drive them there.

[hexola]

11. Its the FAMILY DOLLAR - what can you steal there?

Asprin? Tampax? Hot Wheels?

Its not a Wal-Mart!

[USALiberal]

31. So stealing is ok if the store does not have expensive stuff! LOL

[Trust Buster]

127. No different than looting the property from a personal home during an emergency.

[Kaleva]

136. Many of us on fixed incomes shop at Family Dollar, Dollar General, and The Dollar Tree

I do most of my shopping at those stores. They don't carry fresh foods but most every other food and household items I need.

[Dennis Donovan]

57. The reporter's job is to report...

...not to accuse. Her actions were vile, and I said so in the OP. I did NOT condone stealing.

RIF

[Trust Buster]

128. What did the reporter loot ? She just documented what was happening.

[mountain grammy]

70. Yes, give them my address.

my house isn't full of water. I haven't lost everything, in fact I have far too much. I'm high and dry and not looking at no income, no work, no roof over my head, and the aftermath of a storm that will be nearly as bad as the storm itself.

Have a heart people.

[Arkansas Granny]

12. You will have to explain to me why this is not stealing.

This doesn't appear to be a survival situation. The fact that some of the items taken were edible doesn't make it OK to break into a building and help yourself.

[hexola]

17. It is stealing

Who said it wasn't

[Arkansas Granny]

21. OP apparently doesn't think it's stealing.

From the OP: The reporter is acting pretty vile accusing the looters, carrying food, of stealing

[Dennis Donovan]

30. It's not her job to do so

That was my point - and it was vile for her to insert herself into the story and harass hurricane victims.

[hexola]

33. The police should arrest the reporter - for interfering in a police matter.

If there was a bank robbery happening - would it be ok for the reporter to walk into the bank and interview the criminal?

No. Lucky she didn't her ass kicked on the spot.

[Trust Buster]

129. Yeah, right....LOL

[GulfCoast66]

47. Victims? Really!

Back in the real world they are called thieves.

I have been through several hurricanes. Not once did I feel like going out and starting to steal stuff.

Nor did any of my neighbors.

[Dennis Donovan]

50. Yes, victims...

...and you, having lived thru hurricanes, should have at least a modicum of compassion for others in the midst of experiencing the same thing.

[GulfCoast66]

58. Actually it gives me less. Way less.

My community and those around me rallied together, shared resources and otherwise obeyed the law.

I save my compassion for real victims.

[Dennis Donovan]

59. ...

I'm not even going to respond to that because, on its own, your last sentence speaks volumes.

Have a nice day.

[GulfCoast66]

104. You are not a victim every time something bad happens to you

Those of who have been through many hurricanes know the aftermath sucks. Great food till the good stuff in the fridge is gone then canned stuff cooked outdoors. No water to bathe and heat heat heat.

But we were not victims. We shared our scant resources and got through it.

Robbery never once crossed our minds and had someone done it we would have stopped it.

Listen, if this was 1-2 weeks after the storm and there had been no food or water distribution, and this was a food store, then I would agree with you.

This was just people after stuff.

[Trust Buster]

131. Finally, a voice of reason. Thank you.

[LanternWaste]

168. I say the same thing when people agree with me.

It's certainly bad form to allege *we're* the voice of reason, but the pretense of of generosity when someone else restates our premise allows us the self-validation we so desperately crave...

(but just so you know... the voice of "reason" is not predicated on aligning with your own perspectives and interpretations of events. Here's hoping that helps you think critically and rationally in the future)

[Trust Buster]

169. It was the voice of reason because the post was correct. Taking advantage of an emergency to

Loot is just plain wrong. It gives evacuees a reason to pause next time in deference to protecting their property which places their lives at risk. When reason and common sense intersect, everything else is just noise.

[Blue_true]

145. So she see people taking stuff that don't belong to them.

Taking it against the owner's will. What was she supposed to call it?

I have zero sympathy for people that steal stuff. It is one thing to be poor, it is a totally different game to be an opportunistic asshole.

[alphafemale]

20. Family Dollar doesn't really have food past the chips and condiments.

Electronics and furniture.

[hexola]

23. They are not all alike - depends on the area/store.

The one over the mountain from me - has lots of food and paper products - basics.

Another store, near nicer neighboorhoods, has other stuff.

But - still - you'd be hard pressed to find an item worth more than 50 bucks.

[Arkansas Granny]

29. Its not the worth of an item that defines stealing.

[hexola]

32. Pretty sure nobody has said they weren't stealing...

Not sure why this keeps coming up.

Stealing...yes.

Worthy of law enforcement attention - not really, given the circumstances.

[X_Digger]

41. Apparently you missed the OP's statement. Go re-read it, and you'll understand. n/t

[hexola]

48. Saw it - criticizing the reporter for her tact.

I don't see any claim ANYWHERE in this thread that says they weren't looting/stealing.

[Dennis Donovan]

53. I said the reporter was vile for accusing those of stealing...

Maybe YOU should re-read it.

[cwydro]

77. It is stealing.

Period.

[hexola]

82. Nobody has said it wasn't - can you stay on point here?

There is no suggestion anywhere in this thread that this is not stealing...jezzz!

[Blue_true]

149. They cater to cheap people OR people that don't have a lot of money.

They are like mushrooms after a rain coming after a dry summer spell here. They are all over the place.

[Kaleva]

121. You are mistaken. Being on SSDI, most of my shopping is done at Family Dollar & Dollar General.

They don't carry fresh foods but most everything else I need, they carry.

[Blue_true]

147. My oldest brother is really cheap and love them.

I have been in some with him, they carry limited groceries like cereal, pasta, rice and some quick fix stuff. They also carry frozen meals and other frozen stuff.

Regardless, it was not right for people to loot it.

[janterry]

15. Most people have food at the 24 hour mark

n/t

[hexola]

18. Reporter is lucky she didn't get herself killed.

Would you go up to a bank robber and ask "do you know you're robbing a bank?"

[X_Digger]

37. Yes, how dare she report the truth when it makes people look ugly.

She should look the other way and report on more cats being rescued.

There's happyjoylife newsiestuff to film!

You seem awfully invested in this thread. I wonder why.

[hexola]

38. She doesn't have to interview criminals committing a crime - to report the crime.

Fucking stupid thing to do - and I would bet law enforcement would prefer she keep her distance.

What if one of the looters pulled out a gun and blew her head off...?

[X_Digger]

39. What if one of them handed her a winning lottery ticket that they stole?

See, playing 'what-if' can be fun!

[hexola]

45. Weak sauce - do you really think law enforcement wants reporters getting involved

in an active crime scene...

Seriously - you KNOW they don't!!!

"What if's" need not apply.

[X_Digger]

103. Police don't give a dog's fart about reporters recording crime- other than asking for tapes..

.. as evidence.

[Trust Buster]

133. +1000 that was funny.

[Trust Buster]

132. You think those looters were that violent ? No one else has suggested that.

[hexola]

19. Was that store flooded?

Hard to tell - The floor looks wet - if it was flooded...the looters probably did them a favor.

[alphafemale]

22. lol

Yeah. Haul away that TV that was under water.

Bet the asshole thieves try to return it.

[hexola]

24. They don't sell TVs at Family Dollar

Not sure they even have cell phones.

Point is - the store might have been a total loss anyway.

[janterry]

27. That's the logic they used to steal

It doesn't matter. It's all going to waste anyway. The insurance will cover it.
Or they got caught up in the opportunity of the moment (everyone else is doing it).

There are many ways to justify what you are doing, when you are committing a crime.

[hexola]

28. For sure

Once they see the others rolling out with stuff - they don't want to "miss out" - and mob mentality rules.

[lindysalsagal]

25. THe GOP wants us at each other's throats, starving, dependent, and battling for

resources. They want us to be little india and china: Far too desperate to check their power. Willing to accept any scraps they throw.

[bluedigger]

34. The worst thing is that Family Dollar was the best place they had to loot.

[hexola]

35. Yeah - can't believe the public housing people didn't evacuate...

SARC/

[X_Digger]

36. Free clue: Yes, they are stealing.

What, are they 'liberating these goods in the name of socialism'?

[Dennis Donovan]

43. Not the reporter's job to say anything...

...or to harass victims of a hurricane. What she did was vile.

[X_Digger]

44. Reporting something newsworthy is vile?

Or are reporters supposed to ignore things that make people look bad?

Not the reporter's fucking job to filter the news based on what you think.

[Dennis Donovan]

49. She was accusing them of stealing - that is NOT her job

...and step back from the coffee pot.

[X_Digger]

51. You saw the video, right? That's fucking stealing.

What 'alternative interpretation' can you offer, eh?

'Creative Inventory Redistribution'?

'Non-Traditional Goods Displacement'?

[hexola]

54. She didn't need to interview the criminals in the act

That was really dumb.

I suspect law enforcement will take note.

[X_Digger]

56. Yes, they can use her footage as evidence.

How dare a reporter make a criminal look bad!

Bad, bad reporter, reporting newsworthy doings.

[hexola]

60. That's exactly the problem - Reporters ARE NOT LEO's

That is not their job...

they report - they don't engage in law enforcement activities.

make some sense man!

[X_Digger]

97. Did the reporter arrest the criminals? No? Then they're not doing the LEO's job.

How dare a reporter record something newsworthy.

I think sense is something you should check into yourself.

[Dennis Donovan]

62. Oy vey. Let's try this again...

The reporter's job is to REPORT the news, NOT stand as judge and jury over anyone.

I never said looting isn't stealing ANYWHERE in this thread.

RIF

(P.S. Nice attempt at a swipe at socialism )

[X_Digger]

99. Did the reporter set bail? Sentence them to prison? That's what a judge and jury do.

Reporting what they see? That's what a reporter does.

If I see a car swipe a pedestrian then drive away, what I can't say that's a hit and run?

How fucking foolish would that be?

[GulfCoast66]

52. You have an odd definition of the word victim.

The rest of the world uses the word thief. Or looter.

There was only one group doing something vile. It was not the reporter who was just reporting.

[moriah]

80. Guess "victim of a natural disaster" totally escaped you. Nt

[GulfCoast66]

96. Then that makes all of us along the gulf coast victims

Because we have suffered through many of them.

But we were not victims. Just people recovering from a hurricane.

We we also not thieves and looters. We worked together, shared food around and suffered the heat.

No one felt the need to resort to theft.

[moriah]

100. No, white people in Katrina "found" supplies, you're right!

I forgot no one on the Gulf Coast *ever* had to do something in a disaster situation they wouldn't have done in other circumstances.

[GulfCoast66]

105. I am sure white peoples are just as prone to loot as any other.

Does not make it any more right or wrong.

If this was 1 week after the storm and there had still been no food or water distribution then I would be the first to defend taking what a person needs to survive. That is not the current situation. And Dollar General is not a grocery. Might as well loot an electronics store as far as making it thru the aftermath of the storm.

[moriah]

107. They have a wide selection of TP, paper towels, and diapers.

I think a child sitting in their own excrement with no open stores to buy more would make most people cross their moral boundaries.

And that is the more accurate depiction of the situation in Wilmington -- little electricity, few stores open, and spotty access to electronic money.

[mythology]

124. If only anybody had mentioned there was a big storm coming

Being caught without a basic thing like diapers the day after the storm hit, says they didn't do the minimum to prepare.

[TreasonousBastard]

40. It's not just that looting is illegal-- it is illegal for a reason...

Looting is evidence of a breakdown in what we like to call civilization. We've all seen those apocalyptic movies where hardy and heroic souls are trying to survive, but this was not that.

This was just free stuff.

It's hard to ignore the call of free stuff, but that's what we are supposed to do. Invading armies normally have standing orders against looting. (OK, maybe a lot of that is so the big shots get the good stuff...)

If you are walking down the street and you see a wallet drop to the sidewalk-- is it OK to pocket that wallet, or do you give it back to the person who dropped it? Looting is an extension of the idea of finders keepers-- don't give the wallet back.

[Trust Buster]

134. BINGO Thank you.

[Blue_true]

152. Looted stuff is free to the looters.

But the store owner paid for the stuff and was hoping to make a profit selling it. That aspect is what enrages me about looting. I don't believe looters should be shot by any means, but they should be jailed.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

42. Y'all are going to hyperventilate if you keep huffing so hard. Walking out with paper towels!

[ismnotwasm]

46. Is that, like, a dollar store?

That’s a sad life when you’re looting a dollar store. Even so stealing is stealing of course

[Comatose Sphagetti]

55. This bickering is why conservatives hate us.

Simple solution for conservatives/authoritarians, black-and-white thinkers:
Looting is bad; shoot (especially POC.)

[hexola]

63. Too many taking the conservative/freep tact here...

What's next - "they was out of Obama phones" ?

[tavernier]

67. I lost my home and my car in Irma last year.

It never occurred to me to go over and break into neighboring stores, many of which were owned or run by members of our island community, also devasted by the storm. We all protected each other’s property. Most of the looting was done by people driving in from the mainland.

[tavernier]

71. I am still homeless

So you can stick your white privilege up your ...

[hexola]

73. Aww

Good luck

[Trust Buster]

135. And they claim that you are the one without empathy. I am sorry for your loss no matter the

Color of your skin.

[tavernier]

138. I lost my husband four months before the storm.

It wasn’t a good year for me. But my family and friends are very kind and supportive and things are slowly coming together. Thanks for your kind words.

[Blue_true]

153. Good luck to you.

I knew that I missed your posts, didn't know why. Yes, you have had a brutal year. Good to see your family staying close to support you, that is vital given what you are going through.

[mountain grammy]

72. Yep!

[alphafemale]

75. Bullshit.

Are you actually saying poor people, especially poor black people in public housing are incapable of correct moral decisions?

Yeah.

I'm pretty sure you just said that.

[hexola]

78. Im saying they are more susceptible to mob action.

In mob action - we loose track of the self - we lose track of morals.

Mob rules...

Individually - yes - I think they can make moral decisions.

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

81. So . . .

. . . your position is that "poor people, especially poor black people in public housing" are "more susceptible to mob action."

Wow. That's, uh, a pretty offensive thing to say. Quite appalling, actually.

[moriah]

83. Agreed. This thread is disgusting. Nt

[hexola]

84. Im happy to hear your explanation?

Care to take a stand?

[hexola]

87. Might also like some positive, constructive ideas - like I've presented upthread.

We're waiting.

[moriah]

88. My stand is that it was a goddamn hurricane.

And even when you're shitting in a bucket -- especially when you're shitting in a bucket -- you need TP or at least paper towels and Lysol.

And when a store isn't open to sell such and already appears to be a loss, the need to wipe asses overrides what would normally be done. And when people learn they might be able to find TP, envelopes, school supplies, etc, something that MIGHT work as a substitute... well, they too feel their hygiene needs exceed the need of a store owner to protect inventory.

[hexola]

90. Ok - so it's "proximity effect"

There just so happened to be a huge community of people who might be shitting in buckets - right next to the store.

I think we're on the same page...move along.

[moriah]

91. Every person shits. Therefore everyone needs "paper products", the prime item "looted".

It isn't about poor, it isn't about race, it's a fucking disaster situation.

[Arkansas Granny]

114. By that logic, if you needed those items outside of normal business hours, you would be justified

to break in and take those necessities.

There were warnings in place for days before this storm hit. They knew that power would likely be lost. They knew that businesses would be closed. Those who opted to evacuate or go to shelters had time to do so. Those who chose to stay had ample time to stock up on food, water and other items they might need until those items were once more available.

It doesn't appear that this was a survival situation as much as people taking advantage of a situation caused by a natural disaster. This is not the same as Katrina.

[moriah]

118. I added the part about the store apparently already looking like a total insurance loss...

... to differentiate.

And that store certainly did.

Would you feel it wrong to use a neighbor's outdoor tornado shelter without asking if you were caught outside near it or didn't have your own, even though we live in tornado alley and we have had centuries of knowledge to prepare for tornadoes and dig cellars? Why don't we all have an underground shelter? Why should we care about those who know tornadoes happen here yet live in mobile homes? Why would anyone live in a trailer here in Arkansas, given how even mere straight line winds can destroy them?

Now, think about the answers to those questions, and extrapolate that to less than a week to prepare for a disaster and everyone else in your area buying up supplies too.

[alphafemale]

122. Pretty sure they were'nt stealing toilet paper. nt

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

89. "Explanation" of what, exactly?

Why some people steal and loot and some people don't?

Well, I guess my "stand" would be a two-part thing, which would be (1) generalizing about people, based on their race, is wrong (not just wrong because it is offensive but wrong because it is baseless); and (2) the reason some people steal and loot and some don't has pretty much everything to do with the state of their moral character, individually.

My apologies in advance if this expression of my "stand" is insufficiently "uplifting" for a person of your ideological sensibilities.

[hexola]

92. Do you think some people end up in public housing because of the "state of their moral character"?

Your "Stand" is rather non-specific to this situation...and more of a broad generalization - that I don't think anyone would argue with.

Let me ask this - do you think the looting was justifiable? (not right or moral)

[MousePlayingDaffodil]

123. "Some people"?

Well, yes, some, sure. All? Of course not. Most? No.

Meanwhile, I'm not sure I know how to parse what you mean by "justifiable" without invoking either "right" -- as in "right" or "wrong" -- or "moral," but if by that you are alluding to the idea that, in certain circumstances, a person's engaging in what would nominally be considered stealing or looting can be excused as an understandable or reasonable action, then my response would be: depending on a given person's individual circumstances, yes. I'm not sure where that gets us, however, if "right" and "moral" are to be taken off the table.

I don't think people should take from other people what doesn't belong to them. And, when all is said and done, whether that "other person" is the guy living next door or a Dollar General store down the road, doesn't really make any difference, in my mind. If someone wants to argue that it does make a difference, I'm open to their argument, but my suspicion is that many find it offensive, at that point, that they are even asked to defend their position in this regard

I'll just add, too, that some like to play at some form of analysis where they posit the question as, is it wrong for someone to take food from a store in order to feed their starving child? Before moving off of that question, however, I would posit an additional one, which is, is it wrong for someone to take food from another person in order to feed their starving child? What if the second person has a starving child themselves? Or maybe the second person has a child, who isn't starving, and has some sufficient quantity of food for some period of time. What then? Do we start calibrating just how much of that food the first person can take from the second before it become not "justifiable"?

Again, working through that sort of analysis might be illuminating, but I get the impression that many who otherwise start from the proposition that there is no "moral" component in play in these situations aren't willing to undertake such an examination.

[moriah]

95. Okay, now I'm confused.

I think shitty situations are what causes people to "loot" things, not individual consciences. In fact, I'd be pretty damn sure that the most moral person in the universe would still steal if it was the only thing they could do to save their child's life.

Or keep them from sitting in their own excrement.

[Blue_true]

156. Sure is.

The next step is "They are prone to mob action, stealing and violence, so let's gas them and save society trouble". Thoughts that one group is more prone to negative social behavior is how nazism started and continues to plague societies.

[Blue_true]

155. Bullshit.

I was close to bankruptcy once after being wealthy. I did not steal a cent, even when I felt my misfortune was not all my making. I recovered and feel good that I maintained my values. Good people don't steal, regardless of their circumstances.

[Blue_true]

154. I have a saying.

There are poor people that are just poor but are good people, and there are poor people that are poor and are assholes. The former were not looting and would not loot.

[mountain grammy]

74. I wish everyone here would read this...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211139325

Please read this!!!!

[Scruffy1]

93. Poor people live on the edge.

I'm amazed at the outrage. If you are caught in a storm like this with all of the stores closed and need stuff you really don't have many options. I know a hell of a lot of poor people who live in a daily window and hope for better tomorrow. The owner doesn't really care because the people need the stuff and the entire inventory is going to be written off after the storm. We saw the same in Katrina.It could be a long time until the power is back on and storm damage is repaired to get stores operating again. How long do you think the refrigerated and frozen stuff is going to last without power? I have dealt with salvage. Typically when there is a disaster 100% of the inventory is hauled to the dump in the case of food items and claimed on insurance anyway. Does anyone really want to buy stuff to eat that came from a flood? From the insurers viewpoint it's not worth the effort to sort stuff out, especially at a Dollar Store. So someone takes some infant formula,diapers or cat food. So what?

[mountain grammy]

94. Thank you.

[MustLoveBeagles]

110. +1

I see now that the store changed their minds and will now press charges. I wonder if it will be for everyone or only those taking non essentials.

[Canoe52]

140. Plus these are people that due to the storm will not have a job for awhile

And the jobs they work are not salary jobs, no work, no pay. Jobs that allow a barely hand to mouth existence.

[Blue_true]

158. So they steal instead of going to the Salvation Army, Red Cross for help?

That is twisted logic.

[Canoe52]

166. I'm not interested in arguing, try someone else...

[Blue_true]

157. Wow, that has to be one of the most tortured rationalization that I have ever read.

You reduced people to desperate animals that have no morals. My bet is that in that complex, maybe a small percentage of the people chose to loot, the rest respected property rights.

So by your logic it was "The stuff is going to go bad anyway because the power is out. My power is out too, so I will steal the stuff from the store so that it can go bad at my place". How about letting the owner get an insurance adjuster out, evaluate what will be lost in a few days, then handing that out to people that could use it fast - the owner was not given that option, though it looks like he may have done it given that he didn't want to press charges.

[MustLoveBeagles]

109. Thank you mountain grammy

I'm just going to say this. I think stealing is wrong under normal circumstances. These aren't normal circumstances. Desperate people do desperate things. I have compassion for those stealing food, medicine and other essentials. Those stealing non essentials I have no sympathy for, but if Family Dollar told the police to stand down that's their decision. The reporter should've stuck to just reporting this story and NOT inserted herself into it.

[roamer65]

101. Katrina II - the sequel.

[riversedge]

106. The owner has now agreed to press charges...

..........Assistant Police Chief Mitch Cunningham said officers were talking with the owner, who initially said he didn't want to pursue charges when the arrived on scene. Cunningham said officers consulted with the district attorney and the owner ultimately agreed to press charges.

Officers are now working to identify and arrest those involved in the looting.

Due to the looting, Wilmington police said they will enact an extended curfew for the blocks between 13th, 14th, Greenfield, and Martin streets. The curfew will go into effect at 5 p.m. and will last until 6 a.m.

"We take looting very seriously and we are going to aggressively pursue any kind of looting that goes on," Cunningham said. "We are going to take a strong stand."

Earlier this week, District Attorney Ben David said he was working to clear room in the jail so looters could be charged with taking advantage during disastrous situations.

Brunswick County authorities arrested four people earlier this week on felony breaking and entering charges.

[bottomofthehill]

115. Where is the line drawn

Last edited Sun Sep 16, 2018, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

Is it ok to loot the Dollar General but not the Best Buy, the Hallmark Store, my home. Looting is the breakdown of society. If it is ok to loot after this storm, what about whenever the lights go out.

[Blue_true]

160. I just don't understand the "moral" justifications being given for looting.

The sad thing is more violent criminals use similar logic to justify their crimes. You are right, if we justify looting of a Family Dollar, where does it stop? When have people gone too far? Chaos comes off a slippery slope where people use conditional logic to justify wrong behavior.

[Catherine Vincent]

119. That reporter

That reporter is lucky some of the looters didn't throw paper towels at her.

[jalan48]

120. Parasites. Does anyone believe they only steal during emergency situations?

[Blue_true]

161. Some want to believe that.

Really, the only difference between them and a Wall Street banker that robs society is that the looters are poor, the morals are the very same.

[Alea]

125. Needs more

[Sneederbunk]

130. Judging by the content of their character.

[MustLoveBeagles]

139. Reading this thread is both enraging and depressing

I'm going to trash it even though I Rec'd it. It's nothing against you Dennis, I just can't bear to read it anymore. You can PM me if you wish.

[samnsara]

143. these ppl need to eat. An even better story would be when these ppl return to the store to..

..pay for what they took. This is their neighborhood store.. they need it to be there..i dont feel they are wanting to steal from the store and ruin it...they just need to eat and feed their kids. I'm sure many of them will pay back what they can...if they arent threatened with arrest.

[Codeine]

144. Jesus Christ. Nobody is going to fucking

pay anyone back. The world doesn’t work that way. People are almost universally scum, rich or poor. Given a moment of opportunity almost everyone you know will fuck you over in an instant if it benefits them.

[Marengo]

148. A sad and terrible truth, but truth nonetheless. I've learned the hard way, and struggle with...

How to prepare my young son for the reality.

[Blue_true]

164. Some people won't, but sadly most will.

The popularity of shows like Survivor, Big Brother, The Bachelor and Bachelette, where people scheme and lie and cheat has disturbed my for many years - it implies something seriously wrong in society. The vile conduct of lots of prominent religious people adds to my sense of societal rot that is ongoing. It all is about winning, and use whatever that means are needed to win, immoral or not. No wonder we have Trump as President.

[Blue_true]

163. Are you being sarcastic? If so, really bad sarcasm. nt

[EX500rider]

165. So one day after the storm they were all already starving? I doubt that.