Dear Ms. Ford, Please call this number to file a criminal complaint

[KWR65]

Last edited Wed Sep 19, 2018, 06:52 PM - Edit history (1)

They can still investigate and prosecute this crime.

Captain Sean Gagen, Director

The Special Victims Investigations Division is comprised of several sections responsible for investigating rapes, sexual offenses, domestic violence, and crimes against children.

Main Office Number – 240-773-5400

https://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/pol/chief/bureaus/investigations/family/index.html

[dchill]

1. Really? Well, then!

[uponit7771]

2. HMMM, no SOL on attempted rape in Maryland? Interesting

[Kilgore]

3. Statute of limitations?

[KWR65]

4. There is no SOL for rape or attempted rape in MD.

[Kilgore]

5. Thanks

[spooky3]

7. See today's WaPo. There are other charges with no SOL

Last edited Wed Sep 19, 2018, 11:36 PM - Edit history (1)

That could be relevant in this case, according to a lawyer who described them in an op-ed.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. FELONY rape.

I doubt very much that this would be considered anything other than a misdemeanor (if even that), considering that the alleged perp was a minor with no prior criminal record, and an upper middle class white kid from a "good" family who was attending a posh private prep school. And this was the early '80s.

[spooky3]

32. This former deputy attorney general of Maryland disagrees with you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kavanaughs-accuser-deserves-a-fair-criminal-investigation/2018/09/19/c0605ec4-bc1a-11e8-97f6-0cbdd4d9270e_story.html?utm_term=.f78c0cd67ede

"Some of the possible alleged offenses in this case, such as false imprisonment, are misdemeanors whose statutes of limitations ran out long ago. But other potential charges are not necessarily barred, even today, because Maryland has not imposed time limits on certain felony crimes.

For example, attempting a sexual assault with the aid of another person counts as attempted first-degree rape, just as restricting a victim’s breathing to stop her from shouting for help could fairly qualify as first-degree assault. Both are felonies with no statute of limitations in Maryland. Likewise, under Maryland law, using force to move a victim a short distance, even from one room to another, can amount to kidnapping, a crime that similarly has no limitations period. There are examples across the country where convictions for kidnapping have been upheld in cases where rapists took the victim just to a separate room to commit the crime."

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. It might fit the definition in the statute, but my point was that in those days

- and maybe still - under the circumstances (rich white kid whose dad was a lawyer and mom was a judge, attending a posh private school), either the initial charge would likely have been a misdemeanor or else he'd have pled to a misdemeanor, with the court file sealed because he was a minor.

[spooky3]

48. I understood your point, but my point is that

An expert on Maryland law today believes that this particular situation should be investigated, regardless of privilege. I think it’s important that he is expressing this, especially if the Republicans continue to refuse to call for an FBI investigation. Dr. Blasey’s attorneys may want to consider this option as it may give her an option and more leverage against Grassley and his band of misogynist assholes whose minds are made up.

[JonLP24]

50. +1000

I can't believe people are downplaying the seriousness of the allegations.

[Jarqui]

51. Therefore, there should be no statute of limitations on looking into it

to see if it would be statute barred or not.

It is a question that a proper investigation can answer and should answer because it is the law.

[PoliticAverse]

6. She says she doesn't remember when it happened or where it happened and it was over 30 years ago...

where is that case going to go?

[FBaggins]

8. She doesn't know which specific house

She knows what county they were in.

However... the notion that any prosecutor would charge felony attempted rape in this scenario is wishful thinking.

[PoliticAverse]

9. And if not a felony there would be a statute of limitations that would have expired then?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. One year for misdemeanors in MD.

[torius]

13. The prosecutor might end up dropping it

But they would have to find out more about it. It would take time. Maybe more people would come forward during that time. It could take months for them to decide what to do. Maybe Trump would be in an orange jumpsuit by then.

[pnwmom]

14. So? That shouldn't prevent her from filing a criminal complaint. Let the GOP

try to discount that.

She and K both went to small schools, with a limited number of people to interview. An even smaller number of them lived in homes in Montgomery County with swimming pools in the backyard, where the attack took place.

[FBaggins]

15. I don't think so

Taken outside of the current political context, anyone else with a similar accusation would be turned away. The county wouldn’t do an investigation if they can’t imagine a criminal charge resulting. That doesn’t force the GOP to try to discount something... it gives them a weapon to use against her.

Nor is it needed. Obviously all potential witnesses have heard about the claim... and just as obviously there are hundreds (if not thousands) of reporters and political operatives sparing no time or expense trying to track down more information. Montgomery County detectives have comparatively few resources. Frankly, I’d rather that they spent those resources hunting for actual rapists who attacked someone last week... not drunk teens who assaulted someone decades ago.

[pnwmom]

17. No, they would NOT be turned away. They would be allowed to file their complaint.

And then there would be a very short investigation and it would probably be quickly closed.

But in the meantime, the complaint would be filed, with a case number. And that would be on his "permanent record" -- and would help any other women, if it turned out there were other victims.

And it would also likely cause them to go interview Mark Judge -- and he would probably plead the fifth, which would be helpful to know.

https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-expect-criminal-justice-system

Why would the state decide not to move ahead with the case?
If law enforcement or the prosecution team feel that they are not able to prove guilt, they may decide not to press charges. They may have encountered challenges proving the case due to a lack of evidence, an inability to identify the perpetrator, or other factors. It can be tough to hear, but this is not meant to diminish your experience. Out of every 1000 instances of rape, only 13 cases get referred to a prosecutor, and only 7 cases will lead to a felony conviction.1 No matter the final outcome, reporting increases the likelihood that the perpetrator will face consequences.

There are opportunities to explore your pursuit for justice beyond the criminal justice system. You may choose to file a civil suit, which is a lawsuit in civil court in order to receive monetary compensation.

Learn more about civil suits from the National Center for Victims of Crime.

[FBaggins]

18. We're not actually that far apart

Out of every 1000 instances of rape, only 13 cases get referred to a prosecutor, and only 7 cases will lead to a felony conviction.

Exactly. Which is why teenage drunken groping decades ago isn't likely to get referred to a prosecutor at all (let alone result in charges).

Our disagreement is over how "very short" that "investigation" would be. I think they would get as full an account of her story as she could give them... and quickly conclude that even if it were all true there couldn't be a charge that could survive the statute of limitations... then they would tell her that they wouldn't throw it away and her testimony could be useful for some later victim. I think that recent spin that because Judge was in the room, that could escalate assault to felony attempted rape... or that pushing her into a bedroom at a party could be charged as kidnapping.

I also disagree on your Judge comment. Why would he take the 5th at all? He's pretty safe saying that he doesn't remember anything like that. Even if some other witness came forward with a clear memory, he'd be pretty safe from a perjury charge because he was a drunk teenager 35 years ago. It's plausible beyond a reasonable doubt standard that he wouldn't remember.

[pnwmom]

19. When I called a sexual assault line for a young woman who didn't now if she wanted

to press charges, they said it was very important to file the complaint, and then it would be up to her if she wanted to follow up on it. In the meantime, there would be a record, which could especially be helpful if other women ever came forward.

Mark Judge was culpable, too -- he assisted Kavanaugh in the crime, according to Dr. Ford. So any attorney would tell him not to cooperate.

[FBaggins]

20. I would agree with that recommendation

With the caveat that coming forward still needs to be something that she decides to do. I confess to not fully understanding the high percentage of victims who don't want to come forward... but I accept and respect that it's both common and their choice to make.

But that's what they would tell her if she showed up a week or a month or even a year later. Not 35+ years later. In fact... one of the primary reasons that they want her to file something now is so that if she changes her mind later on and wants to press charges, there's a contemporaneous record that she reported it.

[pnwmom]

21. They are required to take the complaint of anyone who files one

no matter how long it has been.

[FBaggins]

24. Of course... it just doesn't accomplish anything

It wouldn’t make her more credible in the eyes of the handful of republicans who hold this nomination in their hands.

For that she needs to testify and force him to answer the questions that should have been brought up during the hearings. I’ve been told that I’m wrong to blame Feinstein, but I’m still chafed that we wasted time with speculation re: highly unlikely gambling debts when some people knew that he might have an attempted rape in his past.

If she is compellingly winsome and he sounds hesitant/dodging like he did when Harris hit him... he might not get out of committee.

[pnwmom]

25. This isn't Feinstein's fault. Any person who works with assault victims

would have told Feinstein that breaking her confidentiality would be another form of attack.

[FBaggins]

27. I agree... but SOMEONE did that

I don’t know that it was her (though it initially looked that way from the reporting)... but someone released it.

[Ms. Toad]

35. I reported

The police picked the guy up. They knew who he was because I was at least the 13th victim with the same MO. They held him overnight in jail, told him to stop it, and sent him on his merry way.

For that I lost at least 6 hours, during which I was questioned about everything under the sun that might possibly allow them to blame me - despite knowing this guy had previously raped a dozen other women.

Not to mention that I was a white woman attending an elite colleg raped by a black stranger, only a decade after the civil rights movement - an era and circumstances that one might expect would minimize trauma associated with reporting (and make it more likely that prosecution would occur).

Come forward - get treated like dirt - and have nothing happen?

Why bother - a lot of the point of coming forward is to save other women from predators. A dozen women had come forward before me, and it didn't prevent this predator from raping me. I did not report the date rape that occurred 2 years later, nor have I reported the more than a half dozen sexual assaults from age 12 to present (those that I can come up with in under 30 seconds of thinking).

[spooky3]

62. I am so sorry you went through this. It is horrible.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

[onenote]

22. The idea that anyone can file a criminal complaint about anything and it would become

part of someone's "permanent record" is a frightening concept inasmuch as it would be subject to gross abuse.

[PCIntern]

10. And do remember to say that you were NOt

“Compliant” (sic)

[KWR65]

12. complaint Fixed it tnx

[torius]

11. Yes get him arrested

Then he would have an arrest on his record and that could trigger them to investigate.

[onenote]

23. He isn't going to be arrested based on an accusation of an assault from 35 years ago

where the victim can't specify the date or location.

[torius]

26. That is not necessarily true.

I'm not sure about the years passing issue, but if you call the cops and report an assault, the accused would be arrested, then he would be released and the case goes to the DA. Getting someone arrested is not difficult, you just report them. They aren't kept long. Since there is no SOL I think they would arrest him. Her not knowing the date or address doesn't necessarily matter. The cops' job is to arrest, it's not up to them to judge the charges.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. Not if it's a misdemeanor.

[torius]

39. attempted rape and battery are not misdemeanors.

And people do get arrested for misdemeanors anyway, such as hopping subways or, in the old days, buying small quantities of weed.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

43. Misdemeanor arrests can't be made on probable cause.

You get arrested for the misdemeanor offense of hopping subways if the cop sees you do it, especially if you're black. The white 17-year-old from the suburbs who attends an exclusive prep school and whose mother is a judge and dad is a lawyer isn't going to be arrested for hopping a subway or buying weed. He's probably not going to be arrested and charged with felony rape, either, if he gets charged for anything at all. You are assuming that justice is applied equally, but it isn't.

[onenote]

46. So if I called the cops and reported that I had seen someone possessing drugs

and I said I don't know when or where exactly, and it was a while ago, but within the statute of limitations, the first thing the cops would do is go arrest that person without conducting any investigation?

[john657]

31. You couldn't be more wrong.

I talked to my brother, who is an undersheriff, he said that there would be an investigation, if the statute of limitations was still viable, and then, because of the length of time involved, give the results of the investigation to the DA, who would then decide whether or not to file formal charges, and issue an arrest warrant.

Kavanaugh will not be arrested, period and almost certainly there will be no charges filed.

[onenote]

33. If you aren't terrified by the idea that anyone can get anyone arrested with a simple phone call

you should be.

[torius]

34. Well it's true.

I have firsthand observation of this. If there's no reasonable reason to keep someone, they get released. People get arrested for all kinds of things. They even go to prison for several days for "quality of life crimes" like subway fare evasion starting the minute it happens. People play games with restraining orders too, getting people arrested out of revenge. It's something cops have to deal with. If your story is utterly unbelievable, or the person convinces the cop that you are lying, maybe they wouldn't. But if you called and said so and so tried to rape me, and there's no immediate proof that they did not, then yes.

[onenote]

38. Well, would it make a difference if I said I have a lot of firsthand observations that its not true?

[torius]

42. No, it would not.

Your lived experience is different than mine. Every situation is different.

[torius]

45. It has to be a criminal charge

Not just anything and the cops have to believe what the caller says and they in most cases probably would need to be the victim. There has to be some reasonable charge. You're not allowed to do it to get at someone. There's a reason it's not allowed, because people do it. If they find out you are BS'ing then YOU get charged. Arresting just means booking, recording, etc., it doesn't necessarily mean you go to prison.

[MadDAsHell]

36. Really? Any of us can make any accusation and have anyone arrested anytime? nt

[torius]

40. unfortunately, yes

If the arrestee can't talk their way out of it, they get taken to the station. Doesn't mean they are led out in handcuffs. You file a report, they answer some questions. If there's no proof it does not go on their record. What else could the cops do? They have to do something. If they didn't then domestic abusers would never be arrested. They would just say the accuser is lying. In some states, sadly, both the victim and accuser get arrested, then it gets sorted out later.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

47. Actually, no.

If the alleged crime is a misdemeanor you won't be arrested because a misdemeanor arrest can't be made on probable cause; instead, the crime has to have been committed in the officer's presence. If someone just reports a possible felony the police will investigate first and then make an arrest if the investigation supports the claim. Cities don't like to be sued for false arrest, so the cops aren't going to arrest you just because somebody phoned them and claimed you committed a crime.

[Lee-Lee]

55. That's not how it works

If a complaint is made it doesn’t result in automatic arrest.

It results in investigation. And if sufficient grounds for charges are found, then you arrest. If there isn’t sufficient evidence to support a criminal charge you don’t.

You must have probably cause to arrest.

There is no automatic arrest in cases like this.

Some states have DV statutes that say in accusations of domestic violence if police are called an arrest is mandated. The law and standards for charges in those states for only those charges have been changed to make arrests easier and automatic. That’s unique to only those cases and not applicable here.

[torius]

44. it has to be somewhat reasonable

Good grief. Nothing is 100%. If I called the cops and wanted Trump arrested, no, they would not do anything. The cops have to believe it or have no reason not to. It also depends on the cops involved, the people involved, the local and state laws etc. And of course, the charges. The cops can be called for a noise complaint but it's not going to lead to arrests. It has to be a criminal charge, like, say, attempted rape, robbery etc.

[Lee-Lee]

53. He is not going to be arrested just on her complaint

An arrest means that they have enough evidence to charge you with a crime.

They don’t based on her complaint so far.

The police don’t open every investigation with an arrest. Especially one based on nothing more than an accusation of a crime 35 years ago where they are not even sure when or where it was supposed to have occurred.

Anyone who things they would arrest him based on just a vague, unsubstantiated report is delusional.

[UTUSN]

16. K&R

[spooky3]

37. Those of you who believe nothing would come of a report should read this

written by a former deputy attorney general of Maryland:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/kavanaughs-accuser-deserves-a-fair-criminal-investigation/2018/09/19/c0605ec4-bc1a-11e8-97f6-0cbdd4d9270e_story.html?utm_term=.f78c0cd67ede

"California professor Christine Blasey Ford has not accused Supreme Court nominee Brett M. Kavanaugh of “youthful indiscretions,” “rough horseplay” or “misconduct,” as some have benignly characterized it; she accused him of serious, jarring crimes. Her courage to come forward deserves more than empty theater ahead of a preordained confirmation. It warrants a fair-minded criminal investigation by Maryland prosecutors.... (my emphasis)

(snip)

"Some of the possible alleged offenses in this case, such as false imprisonment, are misdemeanors whose statutes of limitations ran out long ago. But other potential charges are not necessarily barred, even today, because Maryland has not imposed time limits on certain felony crimes.

For example, attempting a sexual assault with the aid of another person counts as attempted first-degree rape, just as restricting a victim’s breathing to stop her from shouting for help could fairly qualify as first-degree assault. Both are felonies with no statute of limitations in Maryland. Likewise, under Maryland law, using force to move a victim a short distance, even from one room to another, can amount to kidnapping, a crime that similarly has no limitations period. There are examples across the country where convictions for kidnapping have been upheld in cases where rapists took the victim just to a separate room to commit the crime."

[Lee-Lee]

49. Some of you are a bit delusional as to what can happen here

There could be a valid case if she presented a strong compliat. She doesn’t, unless we haven’t been told the whole story and in fact have been told things that are not true.

Right now we have her claims that it happened. But she cannot recall the date, the place, or even how she got to the place or how she got home or anyone else that was there other than the other accused. So literally we have “This person did this to me 35 years ago, I’m not sure where or when or anything else about the event”

You can’t take that to a jury.

And after 35 years it isn’t exactly easy to investigate. Witnesses have memories that have long since faded. Many are dead. There is no physical evidence remaining. The work to collect circumstantial evidence is impossible, you are not going to find that convinience store clerk that puts them in the neighborhood or neighbor who saw their car at the party- doubly so since they don’t even know where to look.

Given what is there now, this case is virtually impossible to investigate and even harder to prosecute.

People thinking they will go lay a bunch of effort into this case and somehow find something and arrest him are not living in the real world.

And before you start with the “they need to put every effort into it”, go check how many unsolved rapes and murders from the 80’s and 90’s they still have. If you are going to have cops digging into older cases you do them with priority to the more serious ones. A 35 year old incident at a party between teenagers that didn’t result in murder or rape isn’t on that list. One where there isn’t even a strong complaint field with no clear idea of even where it happened even more so. The police don’t have squads of detectives sitting around with nothing to do waiting for decades old flimsy cases to go run with.

And if they moved it up the list ahead of all the unsolved cases of more serious crimes and put a bunch of effort into it that would end up appearing like the police powers of the state were being used for blatantly political purposes.

If she files a criminal complaint it will go- nowhere. They will interview her, Kavanaugh and Judge, make a note that given the ambiguity in here statements about where and when it happened and the other parties denials the case is unable to be substantiated, and close the file. You

[beachbum bob]

52. waste of time as Ford's ,memory is real hazy AND no corroborating witnesses

[JonLP24]

54. Ford's account is credible, even though she can't remember several details.

But, according to Fairstein, it was completely normal that Ford “didn’t remember” several details.

“If she testifies, I would expect her to say ‘I don’t remember’ scores of times,” Fairstein said, for two reasons: the passage of time and trauma. “She found this experience so upsetting that she felt her life was in danger. There might be 220 things she doesn’t know and then a very specific sentence about what happened that was so traumatic."

(Snip)

According to psychologist Anne Meltzer, it may be challenging to recall peripheral details of an assault years later — such as who spread word of the party, who was the designated driver — but that should not detract from a victim’s veracity “if she can clearly and consistently articulate central details of what happened, such as the who, what and where,” she told The Post.

Meltzer, who has not reviewed the details of this case, has testified as an expert witness hundreds of times in child sexual abuse cases, with victims up to 17 years old.

(Snip)

It is not alarming that Ford waited this long to talk about the assault.
The vast majority of sexual abuse victims delay disclosing what happened.

“It’s one of the most common features of child sex abuse,” Meltzer said. Most victims of child sexual abuse fear retaliation, that they won’t be believed or that their family may be angry. There are often very intense feelings of shame, guilt and humiliation.

Statistically, teenagers are less likely than younger children to tell authorities about an assault, she said. Particularly concerned with how others view them, teenagers often feel like “damaged goods.”

“Another reason children don’t disclose is because they are sometimes threatened or pressured to keep it a secret,” said Meltzer, adding that although it may not apply to Kavanaugh and Ford, it is nonetheless a common reason.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/politics/2018/09/18/former-sex-crimes-prosecutor-analyzed-fords-allegations-against-kavanaugh-heres-her-take/

Before anyone replies to me I'm posting what a former sex crimes prosecutor says.

[Lee-Lee]

56. But it takes more than that to press charges or prosecute

A good bit more.

Many will say her lack of remembering details is not unusual. But the defense will attack it as showing her claims are unreliable. They will attack her on the stand saying things like “So you were 15, drinking, you don’t have any idea how you got to the party, where the party was, who else was there with you, how you got home- but you are confident without a doubt among all those things you can’t remember to say for sure the defendant was the one who did this to you?”. That alone will put reasonable doubt in any jury.

So before anyone would bring charges or prosecute on this you need more. A lot more.

[Lee-Lee]

58. Not for me- for the Justice system

There is a legal standard in this country for a reason.

For a criminal case it means proving to a jury “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

Those words have a meaning.

When you arrest someone you better be confident in your ability to prove to that jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they are guilty.

[Lee-Lee]

60. The standard isn't "innocent beyond a reasonable doubt" it is "guilty beyond a reasonble doubt"

You don’t get to flip the standard around to what you want it to be.

I have no doubt Dr. Ford is sincere in here statements.

But I also know here statements alone are not enough for bring charges in this case, much less convict.

Because that boils down to she said/he said/he said.

Even if they manage to figure out where it was and what day it was and find a witness that puts them all there, her own testimony puts them behind a locked door with no other witnesses.’

The defense would say she was 15 and drinking so much she couldn’t remember any details and her memory of what happened in that room isn’t reliable either. So the only evidence available, her testimony, will be in dispute.

I’m not talking about if the incident happened or not. I’m talking about if there would be any case to investigate or bring charges on. There are tons of violations of the law of all forms that never get prosecuted because they can’t be proven. This will be one of them.

[spooky3]

63. For those who think there is no evidence, CTYankee's son, a prosecutor, lays it out here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211154734