America is not the greatest country in the world

[angrychair]

No, not linking that clip, by now I’m sure most of us have seen it a hundred times.

I also don’t necessarily agree with its premise, as it too implies America was “great” at some point and I think that it’s ”greatness” depends on who you are asking.

That said, my bigger point is not to rehash if America is “great” or not as I know the definitive answer is “no, it’s not” but to a more unsettling perspective of who and where we are.

What is happening in America cannot be undone, not by this election or the next or the one after that.

What has been happening this last two years was something that was already there, trump did not create it, trump doesn’t create anything. Trump figures out how to leverage it to his greatest advantage. That has been trump’s angle since he was a kid.

Trump didn’t create the situation we are in, he just painted it gold and slapped his name on it.

The problems we face are far reaching and brutally damaging.
We are fractured and dug in as we ever have been. No matter your political party. Some are so worried about being right that they forgot what the point even was.
Some have forgot the basics of kindness, understanding and compassion. It’s not that, as a nation, we forgot who we were, we forgot who we wanted to be when we grew up. We forget that hard doesn’t mean impossible. That impossible doesn’t always mean it cannot be done.
The integrity and reputation of the office of the presidency has been damaged in a way that may take generations to make right.
Congress is so intractable and damaged by republicans as to be very likely irrevocably broken. Congress is a reflection of who we are as a society. If we want to fix congress, first we have to fix ourselves.

Do I think the republic can survive? Yes. Do I think it will be anything like the nation we thought we lived in? No.

The curtain has been pulled back. We cannot unsee what has been seen. We can no longer pretend that America is the greatest country on the earth. But it can be.

[scheming daemons]

1. We used to be. And we can be again.

[angrychair]

2. Lol

I would counter that we we never were. It sounds great in the video but it’s MAGA-bullshit

[scheming daemons]

4. For brief moments in time... we were.

In the late 1940s, no country on earth was better. Yes, we had problems, but fewer than any other country on earth. We had survived the world war with all of our infrastructure intact, and we were leading the world.

In 1969, we set foot on the moon. Yes, we were in a horrible war in vietnam, but we were still the greatest country on earth *AT THAT TIME*.

We've never been a perfect country. And right now, we are waning because of conservatives controlling everything. But we can get back to something better once we take power away from them.

And we will.

[DavidDvorkin]

8. What's the metric?

[angrychair]

9. I respectfully disagree

Part of my argument is that America was very likely viewed as “great” for middle class and wealthy white Christian males in its past but I think a majority of everyone else would have a very different perspective.

In the 1940’s we had Japanese internment camps and people of color, women and LGBTQ were not even considered real people that could work, live and vote like Christian heterosexual white males.

While we did indeed land on the moon in 1969, the first black man would not go into space until 1983, the first black women not until 1992.

If it is to be ”great”, if we are to be great, than it needs to be a shared and inclusive “greatness” not just one experienced by a select few.

[Moostache]

3. I don't disagree with your premise, but a nit to pick...

Some are so worried about being right that they forgot what the point even was.

The above statement is not true if you are referring to progressives or liberals in any way. The divorce between reality and beliefs is 1,000 times more pronounced and prevailing on the right than on the left. Top allow others to believe differently is a form of "whataboutism" or false equivalency.

Is there REALLY a "climate change argument" any more? Or is it a divorce of right wing "thinking" and fundamental data analysis and facts?

Is there REALLY a middle ground for marriage equality and human rights? Or is it the right demanding limited theocracy? (so long as the religion is of THEIR choosing...)

I could go on and on for pages, but I think the point is clear...in a two-party system where one party has gone insane, it is hard to accept the concept of being blinded by being right and the point is clear: THE GOP CANNOT BE TRUSTED, PERIOD.

[angrychair]

6. I see your point

My perspective on it was definitely not with respect to the “the two sides are the same” BS with respect to republicans.

It was to touch on the very fractured nature of our Party’s politics, within the “bigger tent” Democrats.

I think we become so entrenched in our perspectives as Democrats sometimes, that we are willing to go scorched earth and forget that, ultimately, we are on the same side. I’m guilty of sometimes myself. I’m a Democrat but I do consider myself a liberal Progressive. I have often argued on “how we get there” but rarely on the “what”. As progressives/Democrats we share common values and want the same things. At least we should because if not then we have other questions we should be asking.

[pwb]

5. Trumps slogan, Make America great again says we are not great?

It's the President who believes we are not great. That the way I take it anyway.

[angrychair]

7. I don't disagree

But he also implies, in the “great again” part that we once were “great”. Part of my argument is that America was very likely viewed as “great” for middle class and wealthy white Christian males in its past but I think a majority of everyone else would have a very different perspective.

If it is to be ”great” than it needs be a shared and inclusive “greatness” not just one experienced by a select few.