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raccoon

(31,089 posts)
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:25 PM Sep 2018

I used to believe a religious (Xian) person was automatically a good person.

I believed this as a kid, and even, Dog 🐕 forgive me , as a young adult. That’s how brainwashed I was.



My defense is that I was raised in the Bible Belt, in an area as red as a baboon’s ass. A time and place where going to Church was expected of “nice” people and there was no Internet where you could discuss things with like-minded people.

Sounds like the opening of an episode of the Twilight Zone, doesn’t it?

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I used to believe a religious (Xian) person was automatically a good person. (Original Post) raccoon Sep 2018 OP
I believed it 'til I was 5. lagomorph777 Sep 2018 #1
I hear the words... wcmagumba Sep 2018 #2
Me too until I escaped fundamentalism OriginalGeek Sep 2018 #3
I was not paid for work by a company who's owner played the "good xtian" act Merlot Sep 2018 #5
The only client who didn't pay our bill was a self-promoting Christian. SharonAnn Sep 2018 #40
i grew up surrounded by people who were taught only believers in christ could be ethical and moral unblock Sep 2018 #4
Most religious people believe that Merlot Sep 2018 #7
i had people in all sincerity ask what's it like going though life knowing i'm ending up in hell? unblock Sep 2018 #16
That one always makes my brain hurt. Merlot Sep 2018 #18
It's the ultimate failure of christianity that its followers must be forced to procon Sep 2018 #11
right. the irony is that believers in eternal damnation are actually deprived of moral decisions. unblock Sep 2018 #15
Seen that argument on TV before ck4829 Sep 2018 #25
I was raised in the Episcopal Church leftieNanner Sep 2018 #6
I knew fairly quickly that religiousity did not equal being a decent person. Caliman73 Sep 2018 #8
Really. And they are the ones who push everyone out of the way at the sunday brunches ... SWBTATTReg Sep 2018 #28
I think "Christian" is more of a cultural/tribal identification than anything else. WhiskeyWulf Sep 2018 #9
Well, just about every Evangelical type church Mariana Sep 2018 #33
bingo. Mosby Sep 2018 #38
Yep! I grew up Baptist. WhiskeyWulf Sep 2018 #39
Growing up the most racist people I met were every Sunday church going people kimbutgar Sep 2018 #10
Funny. Over the years, I've come to believe the exact opposite. stopbush Sep 2018 #12
Same here. smirkymonkey Sep 2018 #14
Southern Christian values. joshcryer Sep 2018 #20
I question the values of anyone willing to base their life view stopbush Sep 2018 #21
I Was Raised In a SDJay Sep 2018 #13
I used to defer to them also. Blue_true Sep 2018 #17
Odd. I was never taught anything remotely close to that in church. LanternWaste Sep 2018 #19
That's nice. Mariana Sep 2018 #34
when I was 11 years old a guy in the church I went to said he thought they should demigoddess Sep 2018 #22
Wow ck4829 Sep 2018 #24
K&R ck4829 Sep 2018 #23
I guess that's why many display "Jesus-Fish" in their print ads... NurseJackie Sep 2018 #26
I learned early to avoid any business that uses that symbol. GoCubsGo Sep 2018 #30
The only times my favorite aunt went near a church were for weddings or funerals malaise Sep 2018 #27
Evangelicals answer by citing CSLewis--'Imagine what they would be like if they weren't Xn!!' bobbieinok Sep 2018 #29
grew up in a house where my mom lived her faith dembotoz Sep 2018 #31
It really does depend on the professed faith. Mariana Sep 2018 #35
Feed the poor heal the sick always a good start dembotoz Sep 2018 #41
I grew up in Texas in the Bible Belt vlyons Sep 2018 #32
One hit of Owsly Acid and all my perceptions changed WhiteTara Sep 2018 #36
I used to as well crazycatlady Sep 2018 #37

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
1. I believed it 'til I was 5.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:27 PM
Sep 2018

Then the whole Santa/Easter Bunny discovery happened, and it all began to fall apart.

OriginalGeek

(12,132 posts)
3. Me too until I escaped fundamentalism
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:34 PM
Sep 2018

Now I am automatically more suspicious of someone who loudly brays about their faith.

Fortunately, nowadays, I know far more quietly religious people who just do their thing and don't feel the need to constantly let you know about how godly they are.

Even though I have now experienced more than just the hypocritical racist bigots of my youth, I'm still leery of businesses with that little fish on them.

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
5. I was not paid for work by a company who's owner played the "good xtian" act
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:43 PM
Sep 2018

Gee, sounds a lot like someone helse we all know who doesn't pay contractors.

I won't call or work with any business that has the fish symbol on their information. I was looking for a property manager and found one that on their bios stressed that they were honest because they belonged to a certain church. If that's all they've got, it's not enough for me.

SharonAnn

(13,766 posts)
40. The only client who didn't pay our bill was a self-promoting Christian.
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 02:09 PM
Sep 2018

Previously, I left a job because my boss, another self-promoting Christian, fiddled with the company’s books “because he deserved the bonus”.

Told me all I need to know about self-promoting Christians. They just use that to justify bad behavior.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
4. i grew up surrounded by people who were taught only believers in christ could be ethical and moral
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:37 PM
Sep 2018

they believed that god gave them the ten commandments and all ethics and morals, so if you don't believe in jesus then there's nothing stopping you from killing and stealing and raping and whatever.

they were baffled when i told them i was jewish.

"but you're such a nice person! how can you be jewish!"

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
7. Most religious people believe that
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:47 PM
Sep 2018

They're taught that by their religion so that they 1. don't trust "outsiders" 2. can feel superior to everyone else, and 3. are therefore afraid of any other belief system outside of their own.

I had a nice woman ask me in all sincerity how I was able to tell right from wrong when I told her I wasn't religious.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
16. i had people in all sincerity ask what's it like going though life knowing i'm ending up in hell?
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 03:26 PM
Sep 2018

procon

(15,805 posts)
11. It's the ultimate failure of christianity that its followers must be forced to
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 03:14 PM
Sep 2018

be decent people and behave morally and ethically as their savior taught, or face eternal torture and damnation. We non believers must choose to do the decent thing. The reasons vary, but deep down doing the right thing makes us all feel good, and we are better people because of it.

unblock

(51,974 posts)
15. right. the irony is that believers in eternal damnation are actually deprived of moral decisions.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 03:25 PM
Sep 2018

if i choose to act out of consideration of others at the expense of myself because it's the right thing to do, i'm acting morally.

if a true believer does the same thing in order to go to heaven instead of hell, then they're acting out of selfishness.

leftieNanner

(14,997 posts)
6. I was raised in the Episcopal Church
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:47 PM
Sep 2018

And I still attend. Sing in the choir, served on the vestry, etc.

But my church is wildly progressive and we have wonderful outreach programs in the community. We host a November - April homeless shelter in the parish hall. We have open and strong support for all people.

That being said, I agree with your OP that so many Evangelicals (I don't call them Christians because they are nothing like Christ) are sanctimonious assholes who are often guilty of the sins they most despise.

Caliman73

(11,691 posts)
8. I knew fairly quickly that religiousity did not equal being a decent person.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:48 PM
Sep 2018

I grew up Catholic and was always taught that you had to be an example by the way you lived and treated others, of God's love. I often failed, but I tried. I noticed how some of the priests and some of the sisters were always angry, carrying their faith like a burden and that lead me to question. Another thing was being at Mass when at the end, the priest would say, "Go in peace to love and serve the Lord" and people would pretty much run out and try to beat each other out of the parking lot, cutting each other off, and almost getting into collisions.


There are other obvious examples, but it was pretty obvious from a relatively early age that there were "religious" people who didn't actually understand, or care for the faith.

SWBTATTReg

(21,856 posts)
28. Really. And they are the ones who push everyone out of the way at the sunday brunches ...
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:13 AM
Sep 2018

I go to. Got to get that food asap! Pushy, and noses up in the air so high I'm surprised that they don't have nosebleeds.

WhiskeyWulf

(569 posts)
9. I think "Christian" is more of a cultural/tribal identification than anything else.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:50 PM
Sep 2018

Especially among evangelicals. I've been around people like that all my life, and I've never seen any evidence that most of them are sincerely trying to follow the example of Jesus. Quite the contrary, actually! And then they wonder why they have a bad reputation.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
33. Well, just about every Evangelical type church
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:44 AM
Sep 2018

teaches that salvation is based on faith alone, and that one's behavior has nothing whatsoever to do with one's eternal fate. They don't believe they're expected to follow the example of Jesus. They just need to ask for forgiveness and it's done.

WhiskeyWulf

(569 posts)
39. Yep! I grew up Baptist.
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 12:44 PM
Sep 2018

Baptists are even worse because of the doctrine of "once saved, always saved." As long as you'd had a born-again moment at some point, you were good no matter what you did later. I was an annoyingly logical little kid who pointed out that, if that was true, there was no reason to go to church if you'd already gotten saved.

kimbutgar

(20,873 posts)
10. Growing up the most racist people I met were every Sunday church going people
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 02:51 PM
Sep 2018

I realized that to be a good Christian you don’t have to go to church every Sunday but treat everyone with respect and dignity. I was raised as a sermon on the mount Christian.

stopbush

(24,376 posts)
12. Funny. Over the years, I've come to believe the exact opposite.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 03:18 PM
Sep 2018

Someone says they’re a Christian, I assume the very, very worst.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
14. Same here.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 03:22 PM
Sep 2018

I immediately assume they are all hiding some, if not many, very grave sins behind all their religious nonsense.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
20. Southern Christian values.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 04:47 PM
Sep 2018

In my experience, synonymous with "lying two faced psychopathy."

People are easily disposed, even family if they aren't "the right way." How many young LGBT people are simply disowned by these "loving southern types"?

stopbush

(24,376 posts)
21. I question the values of anyone willing to base their life view
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 05:58 PM
Sep 2018

on the total make believe of religion.

SDJay

(1,089 posts)
13. I Was Raised In a
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 03:19 PM
Sep 2018

staunchly Catholic home. I was sent to Catholic schools, including an all-boys high school where most of the teachers were priests.

I was told that priests were never to be questioned. That didn't work, because I'm a questioner by nature. That always bothered me, because wearing that collar didn't give someone superpowers. They were still just people.

I had no idea that all of this sexual abuse was happening around me at the time, as I was not affected by it. There are still stories/allegations/legal processed coming out of the area where I grew up, even now.

It's led me to believe that some of the worst people are those who are most religious, as they use this 'assume I'm good' or, in the case of priests, 'assume I'm infallible' shield to perpetrate true evil on targets, including children.

Religion needs to be governed like anything else. That doesn't infringe on their freedom, but their freedom should be limited to conforming to the laws of a democratic society.

I agree with many above - now when I hear someone is super religious, I become suspicious.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
17. I used to defer to them also.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 03:36 PM
Sep 2018

But if a rightwing evangelical get in my face with his or her piety, I am consistently letting them have it.

I think that they are the worst form of garbage. What kind of person demands that every child be born and immediately ABANDON the mother and child after the child is born, not only abandon, try to punish them. What kind of a person joyously push guns when the result of an encounter between two people, even harmless ones results in death to one of them. What kind of person worries more about getting even richer when the community around them is falling apart.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
19. Odd. I was never taught anything remotely close to that in church.
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 04:44 PM
Sep 2018

Growing up in a southern baptist, bible-belt home as well, the closest our church got to any form of teaching (or 'brain-washing' for the mind which choose melodrama over accuracy) close to that was "you shall know them by their works..."

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
34. That's nice.
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:55 AM
Sep 2018

There are lots of flavors of Christianity. At least 1000 denominations, and countless "non-denominational" and "independent" churches, plus plenty of variety among different churches within the denominations. I don't know why you would consider it odd that some of them teach different things than your church did.

demigoddess

(6,640 posts)
22. when I was 11 years old a guy in the church I went to said he thought they should
Mon Sep 24, 2018, 07:01 PM
Sep 2018

"beat up or maybe kill" an old lady because they "thought" she was an atheist. Such is Christianity. At 19 attended a church that said they should prevent people from trying to take their children away from their church but it was okay to do it to other people's children.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
26. I guess that's why many display "Jesus-Fish" in their print ads...
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 09:56 AM
Sep 2018

... and on their business vehicles, or on their shopfront windows and doors. The implicit message is "trust us, we're Christians".

Or, it could be understood as "Christians Only. All others stay away."

GoCubsGo

(32,061 posts)
30. I learned early to avoid any business that uses that symbol.
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:22 AM
Sep 2018

The message they're trying to put out is the first one you mentioned, because the general attitude here in the Buybull Belt is that if you are a Christian, you are good and honest. But, if you have to advertise that you're honest and trustworthy, odds are, you are one of the biggest shysters on the planet.

malaise

(267,800 posts)
27. The only times my favorite aunt went near a church were for weddings or funerals
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:03 AM
Sep 2018

but every Friday she made a huge pot of soup and freshly baked home-made bread for the poor. She was irreverent, anti- colonial, hilarious and generous. She had a profound influence on my life.

bobbieinok

(12,858 posts)
29. Evangelicals answer by citing CSLewis--'Imagine what they would be like if they weren't Xn!!'
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:19 AM
Sep 2018

I heard this often when I was in college in TX in the late 50s.

Not sure if Lewis actually said this, but he was always claimed as their defender.

dembotoz

(16,737 posts)
31. grew up in a house where my mom lived her faith
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:32 AM
Sep 2018

a quiet feed the poor heal the sick faith....

it infected me deeply.

the god and jesus thing didn't really take but the ethics of helping others did
would have loved to be a missionary to help and feed but i knew i could never swing the testimony part that always comes into it.

learned early that professed faith really has not correlation to ethics.
this came as a shock to me.

i am now wiser but now sadder.

i also keep my hand on my wallet when someone goes all god on me....
too many "godly" folks are like trump....con men and swindlers

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
35. It really does depend on the professed faith.
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 11:06 AM
Sep 2018

As I mentioned upthread, lots of churches teach that all it takes to go to heaven is to believe. There's no requirement to behave a certain way, although they usually encourage people to do good. Although we must remember that "doing good" is defined by the church. Plenty of them teach that it's good to oppress women, LGBT individuals, and non-Christians, for example.

Anyway, it has ever been so - the person who is known to cheat and lie and steal six days a week, and is a different person altogether on Sunday morning is a stereotype that has been around forever.

dembotoz

(16,737 posts)
41. Feed the poor heal the sick always a good start
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 02:11 PM
Sep 2018

If ur church is contrary to that ya better stop and look around

vlyons

(10,252 posts)
32. I grew up in Texas in the Bible Belt
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 10:40 AM
Sep 2018

and most of the kids I knew were Baptists, Church of Christ. Real fundamentalists. Now I am a Buddhist in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. Many Christians, who masquerade as good and honorable people, have dirty little secrets in the closet and not much compassion. As a Buddhist, I know more about the compassionate teachings of Jesus than some of those charlatans. We already have everything we need to become happy and live a productive life. We have a human body and a human mind and are perfectly able to figure things out and use discriminating wisdom. In short, we already have Buddha nature. Once we become free of confusion and delusions, our Buddha nature will just naturally shine forth.

I recently came across Buddha's Kalama sutra, which I have found quite helpful. I hope you find it helpful too.

Do not believe anything simply because you have heard it.

Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.

Do not believe in anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.

Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find anything that agrees with reason and is conductive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.

WhiteTara

(29,676 posts)
36. One hit of Owsly Acid and all my perceptions changed
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 11:08 AM
Sep 2018

My view of the world has never been the same since. I'm so glad.

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
37. I used to as well
Tue Sep 25, 2018, 11:58 AM
Sep 2018

And then some of my friends started waiting tables and worked the Sunday brunch shifts.

A good judge of character (job interview, date, etc) is to watch how someone treats the server (barista, bartender, cashier, etc).

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