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Thu Sep 27, 2018, 07:59 AM

I'm getting a little frustrated that the only crime that captures attention is sexual crime

Not that it doesn't count, A LOT, but we still seem to act as if it is the only crime worth pursuing. The Gang Of Predators couldn't get anything to stick to Clinton after investigating him for years, but ended up crucifying him about sex. And the media, and the public, for a short time, acted as if a consensual affair actually mattered.

Kavanaugh is a horrible nominee for the SC, guilty of perjury, obviously poised to overturn Roe, an advocate for torture and warrantless surveillance, probably also paid off and probably being extorted by the information that GOP is "holding back" from his confirmation hearing.

But no one seems to pay much attention (DU excepted, of course) until there are sexual crimes at play. Not to underplay those crimes, or their importance to the world - men need to stop treating women in this horrible, criminal, inhuman way.

But isn't it odd that the only threat to his confirmation arose because of this? It's like we are totally inured to every other kind of white collar crime and corruption. "oh, the GOP is nominating an inhuman monster to the court who will destroy workers' lives and womens' lives? Ho hum. What, he's also a rapist? To arms!"

I don't know. I just wish we could rally a strong response for financial crimes and corruption in addition to sexual crimes. Totally glad Kavanaugh is getting pushback, but wish it had come from his earlier known wretchedness.

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Reply I'm getting a little frustrated that the only crime that captures attention is sexual crime (Original post)
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 OP
Laffy Kat Sep 2018 #1
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #2
Laffy Kat Sep 2018 #3
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #4
Hortensis Sep 2018 #24
Nitram Sep 2018 #26
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #34
Laffy Kat Sep 2018 #36
Nitram Sep 2018 #38
boston bean Sep 2018 #5
Initech Sep 2018 #6
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #8
Nitram Sep 2018 #28
nolabear Sep 2018 #7
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #9
nolabear Sep 2018 #10
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #13
nolabear Sep 2018 #15
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #16
JHB Sep 2018 #11
Nevilledog Sep 2018 #14
LiberalLovinLug Sep 2018 #22
MrsCoffee Sep 2018 #12
Honeycombe8 Sep 2018 #17
CrispyQ Sep 2018 #21
thesquanderer Sep 2018 #18
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #19
Orsino Sep 2018 #20
malthaussen Sep 2018 #23
Nitram Sep 2018 #25
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #30
Nitram Sep 2018 #31
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #33
DemocratSinceBirth Sep 2018 #27
RandySF Sep 2018 #29
ProfessorPlum Sep 2018 #32
Squinch Sep 2018 #35
Kaleva Sep 2018 #37

Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 09:12 AM

1. I don't even like the term "sexual crime" or "sexual assault."

It's either assault or it isn't.

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Response to Laffy Kat (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 09:15 AM

2. there should be some term that differentiates between someone punching you

and someone grabbing your junk against your will. Shouldn't there? Both are heinous violations of your person.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 09:18 AM

3. That's my point:

They are both heinous violations of person, why differentiate? I guess they could make it a different level of assault, but let's drop the sexual label. It doesn't have anything to do with sex. Sex is an act of intimacy and assault is assault.

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Response to Laffy Kat (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 09:23 AM

4. I see where you are coming from

both are bodily violations. both cause pain through physical and emotional damage.

Maybe our language will evolve in the direction of erasing the distinction. I don't know - this country still has weird puritanical hangups about sex.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 02:59 PM

24. Well, Prof: You picked the wrong day for it is all.

This is the Ford victim testimony day.

I share your frustration on other days. Today all I can do is recommend you get over it and resume tomorrow.

Oh, darn! Forgot! This charge has not been investigated, nor have critically important witnesses been subpoenaed.

And there are 4 MORE women claiming Kavanaugh victimized them. We can't forget them.

Maybe a little vacation, put in a fall garden, then return? Maybe set a google alert for the leaking of any of those 100,000 hidden documents?

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Response to Laffy Kat (Reply #3)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 09:51 AM

26. Laffy, the trauma and subsequent psychological issues that sexual crimes incur put them

in a class of their own. If someone is beaten up or shot, they don't hesitate to report the crime. If it is a sexual assault, they may never report it. It has effects on the victim that are usually deeper and quite different in nature from other types of assault. You should read up on the subject. It has been discussed quite a lot since Trump's infamous pussy-grabbing speech.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 10:07 AM

34. I hadn't thought of it that way

but that is a difference between the physical and psychological trauma of violence versus sexual violence. Sexual violence so often carries shame and stigma to the victims. (I suspect that happens in strictly physical assault cases, too, sometimes, where the victims blame themselves - but not to the extent it does for sexual violence).

You've stated what I was feeling but couldn't articulate.

Also, I think that Laffy Kat's concern might have been that separating assault from sexual assault in that way might downplay the seriousness/importance of sexual assault. Whereas I would emphasize the difference because I think sexual assault is much worse.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 05:08 PM

36. I absolutely did not mean to trivialize sexual assault...

I was trying to do the opposite. I appreciate that there is a stigmatization attached.

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Response to Laffy Kat (Reply #36)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 06:59 PM

38. It's not just the stigma that differentiates sexual assault. It is the nature of the injury itself.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 09:28 AM

5. Umm, the exact opposite is what happens 99% of the time. No investigation.

No justice. Please get a grip.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:27 AM

6. What I'm pissed off at is that no one is getting punished for said crimes.

Bill Cosby only got 3 - 10 years and Trump got elected president. It's fucking sick.

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Response to Initech (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:31 AM

8. too true in too many cases

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Response to Initech (Reply #6)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 09:54 AM

28. I suspect that's a life sentence for Cosby. For someone who is legally a "first-time offender" of an

advanced age and some severe physical issues, the sentence was considered harsh but fair. Because of the statute of limitations, he could only be tried for one crime. He will suffer.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:28 AM

7. How about you give us this time. Bring up your issues later.

This is ours.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:32 AM

9. this is my issue too

this post was probably ill-timed. Today is about Dr. Ford

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:33 AM

10. Thanks. I'm on edge. No problem.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:44 AM

13. good luck today

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:46 AM

15. To you too. It's all of us.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:51 AM

16. the stakes couldn't be higher

both for our country and for women who suffer this kind of attack.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:36 AM

11. I'm a little frustrated that his lying under oath isn't being brought up more often...

...and in some quarters, make that "at all".

It's much more recent, and it directly bears on his veracity about the sex crime allegations. It's a crystal-clear example that he doesn't have the sterling character his promoters like to portray.

If he felt free to violate the law in his forties, sure that he'd have the support to pay no consequences (or perhaps didn't even view it as a violation), why not in his teens and twenties?

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Response to JHB (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:46 AM

14. Exactly!

Go figure that it's somehow okay that someone is LYING, under oath, to their fucking faces?. Seeing as they chose to indict Roger Clemens, a baseball player, for lying to congress, but a potential SC justice gets a pass.

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Response to JHB (Reply #11)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 01:09 PM

22. And wasn't that the 'crime' that they reduced Bill Clinton's impeachment hearings to?

Of course in the context of salacious sexual behavior, for maximum exposure, but in the end, I've heard from Republicans..."No no no, it wasn't that President Clinton had a consensual BJ in the White House, it was that he LIED about it to a grand jury." The lie was the main thing.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 10:41 AM

12. It's odd that you are frustrated by this.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 11:30 AM

17. I disagree. It's just that people don't come forward to claim "money fraud" very often....

Bernie Madoff's claimants came forward, and that was surely paid attention to.

But it requires a person coming forward to claim first hand knowledge, and to claim that THEY THEMSELVES were the ones harmed. For money fraud, the ones duped often don't know. The ones who DO know were part of the scheme, so they won't come forward, unless part of a plea deal.

What other crimes do you have in mind?

The reason sex crimes in this case matters because it goes to character, and it will also be part of his job as a Justice to rule on issues that primarily affect women (health care, abortion), so his views & interactions with women are relevant. We're not talking about an extramarital affair. It would have to be a crime, to be relevant, if true.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #17)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 01:00 PM

21. Perjury comes to mind.

In the United States, for example, the general perjury statute under federal law classifies perjury as a felony and provides for a prison sentence of up to five years.


And the GOP commits it all the time, but we just look the other way these days, because if we didn't, the entire fucking GOP would be in jail. We also excuse their lame "I don't recall" answers when they know the truth will be damaging. No one ever asks, "How do you perform the functions of this vital position if your mental faculties are so weak?"

The media is guilty, too. A simple perjury case is boring in comparison.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 11:37 AM

18. re: "poised to overturn Roe, an advocate for torture and warrantless surveillance"

...but for Republicans, these are positives, not negatives.

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Response to thesquanderer (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 11:41 AM

19. so, apparently, is the sexual assault

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 11:43 AM

20. Trump's inauguration settled that.

America doesn't sufficiently care about financial crimes and corruption. Trump's millions in debt were waved away, so almost no one can care about Kavanaugh's mere 200 large, where it came from or where it vanished to.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Thu Sep 27, 2018, 02:57 PM

23. I agree with you on that.

But in the present political climate, I'll go with whatever works.

-- Mal

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 09:47 AM

25. Plum, I am surprised you don't understand the enormity of this particular crime and subsequent

cover-up. You also seem to have forgotten that before Ford came forward, Democrats in congress and all over the country were up in arms about Kavanaugh's lies and leaking, about his refusal to answer any questions, and the refusal by the Republican majority and the White House to release documents from Kavanaugh's White House years.The problem is that Republicans have the presidency and a majority in both houses of congress. did I really need to point all this out? I hope you will reconsider your premise.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 09:59 AM

30. you misunderstand my premise

Kavanaugh's crime(s) is an enormous and horrible crime. But the American people only seem to get worked up about sexual crimes, and do so even if they are not enormous nor horrible. Like Clinton's sad affair with Lewinsky, which was an uneven power situation, but was consensual and between two adults.

In contrast, any number of white collar crimes, that also kill people and destroy lives, barely seem to register in the public conversation.

My interest is in this phenomenon in general, not so much in the Kavanaugh situation, though it is a fair example of it. He should have had his membership in humanity revoked for all the other shit he's done, even _before_ the allegations of sexual crimes. But he was about to sail on through.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Reply #30)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 10:03 AM

31. I don't see it, Plum. Mueller's team is not investigating a sexual crime and that has been in the

news for a year and a half now. People are being indicted for fraud and financial crime all the time, and we enthusiastically discuss these cases on DU and elsewhere. cops are shooting unarmed black men and we support them with demonstrations and marches. I went marching in Washington, D.C. for Science because the current administration has taken the science out of important decisions. No, I don't get your point.

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Response to Nitram (Reply #31)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 10:05 AM

33. that's fair

your mileage may vary, of course.

I'm happy to go after criminal and corrupt Republicans for all of the above, so if you perceive it that way then that is reassuring.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 09:54 AM

27. Beside murder or torture it's the most egregious crime a person can commit

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 09:57 AM

29. This sounds just like the "identity politics" complaint we get here from time to time.

And while financial crimes are important, women do not spend every day watching out for themselves out of fear of embezzlement.

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Response to RandySF (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 10:03 AM

32. these issues are personal and immediate to survivors of sexual assault

understandably. And we should react with swiftness and alarm to these situations.

I just think we should react with (perhaps not equal, but more than we currently do) alarm to the anti-union, anti-worker, anti-democracy, anti-abortion, and anti-human stances he had before we even knew about it. Unfit before we even found out he is a rapist.

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 10:25 AM

35. Gosh, that's a load of ignorant tone deaf bullshit!

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Response to ProfessorPlum (Original post)

Fri Sep 28, 2018, 05:26 PM

37. Yea, school shootings get NO notice here.

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