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mahatmakanejeeves

(57,359 posts)
3. And just like that... A Supreme Court Case Could Liberate Trump to Pardon His Associates
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 11:11 AM
Sep 2018

Last edited Fri Sep 28, 2018, 12:16 PM - Edit history (1)

And just like that...



POLITICS

A Supreme Court Case Could Liberate Trump to Pardon His Associates

Gamble v. United States isn’t related to the Russia investigation. But the outcome—which one senior Republican senator has tried to influence—could still have consequences for the probe.

NATASHA BERTRAND
SEP 25, 2018

A key Republican senator has quietly weighed in on an upcoming Supreme Court case that could have important consequences for Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation.

The Utah lawmaker Orrin Hatch, who sits on the Senate Judiciary Committee, filed a 44-page amicus brief earlier this month in [link:http://|Gamble v. United States], a case that will consider whether the dual-sovereignty doctrine should be put to rest. The 150-year-old exception to the Fifth Amendment’s double-jeopardy clause allows state and federal courts to prosecute the same person for the same criminal offense. According to the brief he filed on September 11, Hatch believes the doctrine should be overturned. “The extensive federalization of criminal law has rendered ineffective the federalist underpinnings of the dual sovereignty doctrine,” his brief reads. “And its persistence impairs full realization of the Double Jeopardy Clause’s liberty protections.”

Within the context of the Mueller probe, legal observers have seen the dual-sovereignty doctrine as a check on President Donald Trump’s power: It could discourage him from trying to shut down the Mueller investigation or pardon anyone caught up in the probe, because the pardon wouldn’t be applied to state charges. Under settled law, if Trump were to pardon his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, for example—he was convicted last month in federal court on eight counts of tax and bank fraud—both New York and Virginia state prosecutors could still charge him for any crimes that violated their respective laws. (Both states have a double-jeopardy law that bars secondary state prosecutions for committing “the same act,” but there are important exceptions, as the Fordham University School of Law professor Jed Shugerman has noted.) If the dual-sovereignty doctrine were tossed, as Hatch wants, then Trump’s pardon could theoretically protect Manafort from state action.

If Trump were to shut down the investigation or pardon his associates, “the escape hatch, then, is for cases to be farmed out or picked up by state-level attorneys general, who cannot be shut down by Trump and who generally—but with some existing limits—can charge state crimes even after a federal pardon,” explained Elie Honig, a former assistant U.S. attorney in New Jersey. “If Hatch gets his way, however, a federal pardon would essentially block a subsequent state-level prosecution.”
....

avebury

(10,952 posts)
4. Mueller's reaction should be to let
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 11:15 AM
Sep 2018

the state's have the first bite of the apple . MY would grab the chance.

ancianita

(36,009 posts)
5. Once that law is passed by SCOTUS, Mueller's NY rulings will be overturned. It's a losing battle
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 11:17 AM
Sep 2018

once Kavanaugh assumes the bench.

awesomerwb1

(4,267 posts)
6. Wake up call to everyone.
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 11:17 AM
Sep 2018

Dems in leadership....everyone.

When will we all realize the opposition will do ANYTHING to get what they want? There is nothing they won't do to advance their agenda.

Prepare to get steamrolled by the russiapublicans over and over unless we wise up and stop bringing plastic knives to gun fights.

Nevilledog

(51,055 posts)
7. That is NOT what Gamble is about.
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 11:21 AM
Sep 2018

I have tried over and over to point out the utter crap that is being said about this case.

This does not take away the state's right to criminally prosecute federally pardoned defendants.

Please, take a few minutes everyone and read at least the fucking briefs.

Here's the brief from the gov't arguing against any change, and it explains the facts of the case at issue.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/17/17-646/28031/20180116184058367_17-646%20Gamble.pdf

Edit to add:. Better yet, read the entire article at your link.

mikeysnot

(4,756 posts)
10. That is the way I see it too
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 11:27 AM
Sep 2018

This is for the same crimes.

If Mueller has different crimes, and I am sure there is for all of trumps cohorts, he cannot pardon them at the state level?

I hope that is the case.

Mueller team is five months ahead of were we are at at this point.

Raven123

(4,800 posts)
8. Should be interesting given the following from Article 2
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 11:21 AM
Sep 2018

Concerning the powers of the President : “and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

Seems clear to me that the “strict constructionists” should read as written

Response to SHRED (Original post)

Anon-C

(3,430 posts)
12. So with this case Trump can hire Erik Prince to go on a domestic murder spree and pardon the killers
Fri Sep 28, 2018, 12:09 PM
Sep 2018

Would never happen, right?

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