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Stare Decisis

(229 posts)
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 04:24 PM Oct 2018

Lay Off Joe Manchin

it is just business. Once his vote can't help a no only hurts the seat, ot at least that is what is honestly believed. We need the seat, so it is just green cheese on top of rotten ham. We lost this one. They will be sent into political wilderness, and one other thing-don't think for a minute a massive swing in the makeup of Congress won't influence BK's partisan bent. He is if nothing else an opportunist.

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Lay Off Joe Manchin (Original Post) Stare Decisis Oct 2018 OP
Pffft denbot Oct 2018 #1
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #2
I agree with you vi5 ..... NO. trueblue2007 Oct 2018 #20
And I agree with both of you. blueinredohio Oct 2018 #22
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #3
BlahblahblahblahBLAH hatrack Oct 2018 #4
Not saying it isn't a slap to us Stare Decisis Oct 2018 #5
Um, no. mac56 Oct 2018 #6
#MeToo InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2018 #35
Up to voters in VW. I wonder what would have happened within Dem caucus if he was deciding vote? FloridaBlues Oct 2018 #7
What if Jeff Flake voted NO? Wouldn't Manchin be a deciding vote then? Maraya1969 Oct 2018 #37
His constituency is the problem. WeekiWater Oct 2018 #8
Oh well if we would somehow get to choose the NEXT SC Judge guess Joe would vote NO..... Bengus81 Oct 2018 #50
Which Democratic President nominated SC justice did he vote against? N/T WeekiWater Oct 2018 #52
his constituents mercuryblues Oct 2018 #69
No. tymorial Oct 2018 #9
Manchin did let Collins go first Zambero Oct 2018 #10
Agreed, But DU is not the home to pragmatic politics. 11 Bravo Oct 2018 #25
So you admit he has no integrity? Thrill Oct 2018 #41
Kept his seat to do what? Vote with Republicans on the next issue?? Bengus81 Oct 2018 #54
Why does 'pragmatic politics' melman Oct 2018 #64
don't think for a minute a massive swing in the makeup of Congress won't influence BK? melman Oct 2018 #11
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #12
That attitude is exactly how we lost control of the Senate. pnwmom Oct 2018 #16
He hurts the cause even when they have the majority Thrill Oct 2018 #42
He helps the cause just by being a vote that contributes to the majority. pnwmom Oct 2018 #45
Save your breath. People need to vent right now ... 11 Bravo Oct 2018 #70
"It's just business," as he slaps milllions of women in the face. Thanks for the advice. catbyte Oct 2018 #13
Yep. n/t GoCubsGo Oct 2018 #15
I don't believe I will. GoCubsGo Oct 2018 #14
No, I'm fucking livid. liberalnarb Oct 2018 #17
He was probably scared she might vote No Awsi Dooger Oct 2018 #18
Nope. Tipperary Oct 2018 #19
I would agree with you if allowed to say so... so disillusioned. InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2018 #29
If he can't stand the heat, he shouldn't be in the kitchen. octoberlib Oct 2018 #21
We need a moderate, SOLID Dem to run in the primary against him in 2024. Blue_true Oct 2018 #23
Joe's statement summarized Jake Stern Oct 2018 #24
Exactly. catbyte Oct 2018 #27
Bingo!! InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2018 #30
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #26
I'm not prepared to go that far... but, geeeez Louise... /censored/ InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2018 #32
He didn't have to insult Dr. Ford and other victims Ilsa Oct 2018 #28
Good point! InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2018 #33
Never alarimer Oct 2018 #31
Certainly can't help. InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2018 #34
Nope. TDale313 Oct 2018 #36
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #38
And that's why the Democrats lose. Yavin4 Oct 2018 #39
Enjoy your stay superpatriotman Oct 2018 #40
It sucks even if his vote is without real consequence Hav Oct 2018 #43
He gave sexual assault survivors the finger Jake Stern Oct 2018 #46
Post removed Post removed Oct 2018 #44
Manchin's being elected as a Democrat counts towards them controlling the Senate and it's agenda. elocs Oct 2018 #47
We can all sleep easy JDC Oct 2018 #48
Yes, reassuring isn't it? hatrack Oct 2018 #49
The knowledge that Manchin is still in that seat will no doubt bring comfort and succor Jake Stern Oct 2018 #57
Oh good. Finally you joined to tell us what to do. Squinch Oct 2018 #51
What goes around comes around. Or at least that's what I've heard. PubliusEnigma Oct 2018 #53
Oh....BS.... LovingA2andMI Oct 2018 #55
As it looks right now MFM008 Oct 2018 #56
How does Joe tend to vote on large controversial things? lancelyons Oct 2018 #58
I think Manchin is done. What few liberals there are in W. VA. will probably stay home Calista241 Oct 2018 #59
Agreed. The sad thing is we have lost many of the rural states that have equal representation lancelyons Oct 2018 #62
TROLL Submariner Oct 2018 #60
I have news for you, people are more than a little upset and MoveOn BeckyDem Oct 2018 #61
Party first! GeorgeGist Oct 2018 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2018 #65
Let's just lay off everything since it is just business. Autumn Oct 2018 #66
Hello? His vote was meaningless once Collins and Flake voted Yes DeminPennswoods Oct 2018 #67
Fuck that shit mercuryblues Oct 2018 #68
Nope. alarimer Oct 2018 #71

Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

 

Stare Decisis

(229 posts)
5. Not saying it isn't a slap to us
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 04:30 PM
Oct 2018

but it is a symbolic slap. He probably would not have decided this thing against us. Collins made her choice, why I don't know, I don't know what is worth going down in history in league with Roger Taney.

FloridaBlues

(4,216 posts)
7. Up to voters in VW. I wonder what would have happened within Dem caucus if he was deciding vote?
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 04:31 PM
Oct 2018

Could he have been removed from committees?

Maraya1969

(22,812 posts)
37. What if Jeff Flake voted NO? Wouldn't Manchin be a deciding vote then?
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:16 PM
Oct 2018

And that poll was from August - way before all this new information came about. I'm sure people feel different now

Bengus81

(7,119 posts)
50. Oh well if we would somehow get to choose the NEXT SC Judge guess Joe would vote NO.....
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:21 PM
Oct 2018

Vote YES for an ANGRY DRUNK but vote NO for a Democrat pick. Hell,he might as well switch parties.

mercuryblues

(14,637 posts)
69. his constituents
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 11:53 AM
Oct 2018

are also a bunch of racist assholes. Does that mean he should also vote to take voting/civil rights away from black people? Equal rights marriage from the LBQT community?

Zambero

(9,055 posts)
10. Manchin did let Collins go first
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 04:37 PM
Oct 2018

That in itself leads me to believe that he would have been a majority no vote had she actually come out in opposition to Kavanaugh. His explanation of "support" was very half-hearted to say the least.

11 Bravo

(23,962 posts)
25. Agreed, But DU is not the home to pragmatic politics.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:02 PM
Oct 2018

Manchin got a pass, he took it, and as badly as he occasionally sucks; he just kept his Senate seat in the Democratic column.

Bengus81

(7,119 posts)
54. Kept his seat to do what? Vote with Republicans on the next issue??
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:25 PM
Oct 2018

Hell even Republicans in Kansas finally did the right thing and voted to END Governor Brownback's zero percent tax rate for Corporations in Kansas after four years before we went BK.

It's about doing what's right and taking some guff over it...........

 

melman

(7,681 posts)
11. don't think for a minute a massive swing in the makeup of Congress won't influence BK?
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 04:40 PM
Oct 2018

Yeah, I think I'm gonna go ahead and think that it won't.


I mean are you seriously saying Kavanaugh will suddenly stop being a right-winger? wtf?

Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

pnwmom

(109,197 posts)
16. That attitude is exactly how we lost control of the Senate.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 04:44 PM
Oct 2018

He comes from a very red state. The choice isn't between a progressive Senator and a Republican. If we put up a progressive, that person won't have a chance.

We used to have many more people we derogated by calling them DINO's. When we stopped supporting them, and lost their seats, we lost control of the Senate. Our party purists helped accomplish that.

 

Thrill

(19,196 posts)
42. He hurts the cause even when they have the majority
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:24 PM
Oct 2018

He’s a big reason the recovery act and Obamacare weren’t stronger. Gutting them to make him and one or two Republicans happy. Tired of his back room negotiations that weakens good legislation

pnwmom

(109,197 posts)
45. He helps the cause just by being a vote that contributes to the majority.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:43 PM
Oct 2018

When we control the majority we control all the committees and all the votes on bills and judges.

And it's unrealistic to think that a state that supported Trump with 68% of the vote (v. Hillary's 26) would have voted for a Senator much more progressive than Manchin. If we didn't have him we'd have some R voting against us. There's no downside to having Manchin in that seat, no matter how he votes.

11 Bravo

(23,962 posts)
70. Save your breath. People need to vent right now ...
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 02:44 PM
Oct 2018

and aren't in the mood for any kind of practicality.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
18. He was probably scared she might vote No
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 04:47 PM
Oct 2018

In that case he'd have to vote No or be seen as an ultimate traitor.

IMO, Manchin is nothing but a weakling self-centered opportunist and he was desperate to vote Yes to strategically save himself. I don't think he gave a damn about Kavanugh one way or another.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
23. We need a moderate, SOLID Dem to run in the primary against him in 2024.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:00 PM
Oct 2018

We can't put up a moonshot no hoper like this year.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
24. Joe's statement summarized
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:01 PM
Oct 2018

"Well ladies, you see, I believe you were attacked and all but I gotta do what I gotta do to keep my seat. Don't worry though: it's nothing personal, strictly business."

Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

Ilsa

(61,840 posts)
28. He didn't have to insult Dr. Ford and other victims
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:07 PM
Oct 2018

by insinuating she is confused. Just vote to save the seat since Pence would have won it for them.

Sometimes it is better to say less than try to explain yourself.

alarimer

(16,321 posts)
31. Never
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:09 PM
Oct 2018

I don't like him and would prefer him gone. It's pointless for him to suck up to Republicans; they are not voting for him anyway. And a yes just pissed off the all the potential fence-sitters, likely into not voting.

Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

Yavin4

(35,575 posts)
39. And that's why the Democrats lose.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:18 PM
Oct 2018

Anyone who would vote against Manchin because of his voting "no" on Kavanaugh is going to vote against him ANYWAY.

Hav

(5,969 posts)
43. It sucks even if his vote is without real consequence
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:41 PM
Oct 2018

but you also need to consider one thing: He might be the vote needed to stop another far right Judge getting nominated at all and he might be needed so that someone like Garland cannot be blocked for a year.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
46. He gave sexual assault survivors the finger
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 05:57 PM
Oct 2018

by essentially saying their testimony doesn't mean shit as long as Mr. Rapist is polling large with the yokels back home.

Thank God for Donnelly, Heitkamp (A surprise!), Jones and McCaskill - Red state Dems with courage and principles who are willing to stand up for what is right despite the electoral risks.

Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

elocs

(22,828 posts)
47. Manchin's being elected as a Democrat counts towards them controlling the Senate and it's agenda.
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:02 PM
Oct 2018

There's no point in biting off your nose to spite your face.
How many would prefer Manchin to lost and maybe the Senate turns out 50/50 with McConnell still in control?

JDC

(10,245 posts)
48. We can all sleep easy
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:12 PM
Oct 2018

Knowing that when the Supreme Court crushes the people under the heel of corporations and the rich, and justice moves further out of our reach, that it was Just Business for Joe, nothing personal.


hatrack

(59,872 posts)
49. Yes, reassuring isn't it?
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:14 PM
Oct 2018

Maybe he and his daughter can relax this weekend by rolling around in a giant pile of cash raised from EpiPen price gouging!

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
57. The knowledge that Manchin is still in that seat will no doubt bring comfort and succor
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:30 PM
Oct 2018

to women as they listen to a judge hand down their multi-decade sentence for procuring an abortion after Roe is tossed out the window tanks to Justice Kavanaugh.



MFM008

(19,889 posts)
56. As it looks right now
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:28 PM
Oct 2018

Heidkamps seat is gone.
She had courage on this vote.
Mancion gets no such break.
I dont care what happens to him.

 

lancelyons

(988 posts)
58. How does Joe tend to vote on large controversial things?
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:33 PM
Oct 2018

I though I saw earlier that he tends to vote more conservative than democratic.

Calista241

(5,594 posts)
59. I think Manchin is done. What few liberals there are in W. VA. will probably stay home
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:34 PM
Oct 2018

because of this vote. he's never going to out-Republican the Republicans.

 

lancelyons

(988 posts)
62. Agreed. The sad thing is we have lost many of the rural states that have equal representation
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 07:03 PM
Oct 2018

Agreed. The sad thing is we have lost many of the rural states that have equal representation

Not sure how this all happened but it seems like the Democrats becoming neutral on religion and guns has something to do.

GOP has been working their strategy for the last 10-15 years or longer. Not sure the Dems where even aware.

We are way behind.

BeckyDem

(8,361 posts)
61. I have news for you, people are more than a little upset and MoveOn
Fri Oct 5, 2018, 06:42 PM
Oct 2018

is taking action. Some votes and positions are a bridge too far.



We're cancelling a planned six-figure digital video ad expenditure for Phil Bredesen in Tennessee due to his Kavanaugh position. And similarly will be pulling all planned campaigning on behalf of Joe Manchin in West Virginia if he votes yes. Kavanaugh is unfit for the Court.


Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

DeminPennswoods

(15,572 posts)
67. Hello? His vote was meaningless once Collins and Flake voted Yes
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 09:37 AM
Oct 2018

With Collins and Flake, the Rs had their minimum 50 votes. Manchin's vote did not change the outcome either way. If he voted no, the result would have been Pence casting the tie-breaking vote to end cloture. So all his yes vote did was to preclude Pence voting. I believe if Collins or Flake had voted no, Manchin would have voted no, too.

Dems are not a majority. There are only 47 actual Dems along with 2 Is (King and Sanders) who caucus with the Dems, making 49. If no Rs break ranks, it doesn't matter how any Dem votes.

mercuryblues

(14,637 posts)
68. Fuck that shit
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:14 AM
Oct 2018

What rights are you willing to give up by giving that fucker a pass? I mean seriously. Kavanaugh is an accused sexual assaulter whose reward is a supreme court seat. He tried to keep a minor, rape victim from getting an abortion. He will most definitely vote against women's rights on the court. So what fucking rights are you willing to give up.


With his vote manchin has proven to women he is untrustworthy in protecting a women's equal rights PERIOD

Oh, he MIGHT vote with Democrats sometimes, so that is wort protecting his seat? What if the next supreme court pick is a straight up neo-Nazi? Do we still support manchin when he votes yes? Do you still support him because it is better to have him vote with the D's sometimes, or do you draw the line there?

How about kids with disabilities? DeVos is eliminating educational protections for them in schools. Do we look the other way on his vote when kav sides with DeVos? You know, because manchin votes with D's on technology bills?


So I ask again, what rights are you willing to give up?


Disabilty protections? Equal education? How about LBGT rights? Voting rights? Employment rights? Housing rights? Equal pay rights? Discrimination? We already know you are willing to put a woman's right to her own body on the chopping block.

alarimer

(16,321 posts)
71. Nope.
Sun Oct 7, 2018, 03:30 PM
Oct 2018

Never. I’d rather lose that seat than give him any possible leverage a la Joe Lieberman, who ruined the ACA.

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