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Stare Decisis

(229 posts)
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:04 AM Oct 2018

I Apologize For Previous Thread "Lay Off Joe Manchin"

I originally thought that Schumer allowing his vulnerable to vote to protect the seat, not an uncommon occurrence, is justifiable. Not in this case. In this case principle is supreme, and the idea that Manchin parroted right wing talking points should give us all serious pause as to whether he actually will stay in the party.

More importantly the notion of Dr. Ford being confused is an affront to her and literally the defense of every predator known to personkind. I had not confirmed that he said what he said, but even still I should have set aside my instinct for political business long enough to realize there is good and evil and this kind of evil renders any electoral victory meaningless.

I am sorry. There is no scenario where an endorsement of this man is ok. It is a litmus test that Joe failed as a Democrat, and more importantly, as a human being.

I refuse to be such a failure. Today I am sick to my stomach. I am angry. I have had my faith shaken in any institution in this country. But my only chance to partner and help defeat this tyranny is only if I retain faith in myself. Winning is vital, yes, however so is laying the groundwork for a permanent ethical, empathetic, accepting, and progressive majority.

We must remember the foundation of such road is moral authority.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I Apologize For Previous Thread "Lay Off Joe Manchin" (Original Post) Stare Decisis Oct 2018 OP
Agreed. This is not a political calculation on a regular piece of legislation. Trust Buster Oct 2018 #1
Where did Manchin "parrot" right wing talking points? Jersey Devil Oct 2018 #2
Did he deny it? JonLP24 Oct 2018 #21
I still think even the remote possibility of taking back the senate.... LAS14 Oct 2018 #3
Perhaps, but as you said it is a long shot still_one Oct 2018 #4
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2018 #5
It Was/Is One Thing To Vote Yes Me. Oct 2018 #6
Then contest him in the primaries in 2022. Those who feel so motivated to encourage machin to go still_one Oct 2018 #7
x1000! peggysue2 Oct 2018 #13
He May Not Be The Only Option Me. Oct 2018 #14
He may not be but . . . peggysue2 Oct 2018 #16
After the last 2 years we really deserve one for our side and the country still_one Oct 2018 #18
And Then Some Me. Oct 2018 #19
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Oct 2018 #20
I agree. He is voting for a person who has lied under oath numerous times, is partisan Maraya1969 Oct 2018 #8
Manchin is the Democratic candidate in WV and must win re-election. yardwork Oct 2018 #9
So where do we draw the line? Jake Stern Oct 2018 #17
Feel free to move to a country that's pure enough for your taste. Good luck. yardwork Oct 2018 #23
Damn those pesky principles Jake Stern Oct 2018 #25
You can live in NY wellst0nev0ter Oct 2018 #30
You may join the ranks of an OP BumRushDaShow Oct 2018 #10
Ya that's not going to happen. Stare Decisis Oct 2018 #11
I had attempted to post BumRushDaShow Oct 2018 #12
Several of his staffers are bullshit about his vote. Blue_true Oct 2018 #15
Yep....such a good thing that there were totally crickets here during the primary season. Lots of JCanete Oct 2018 #22
If the GOP control the Senate after the midterms, Lindsey Graham will be the head of the Judiciary Gothmog Oct 2018 #24
Are you voting for Patrick Morrisey then bronxiteforever Oct 2018 #26
WE NEED HIS D IN WEST VIRGINA. his opponent is WAY WORSE. pansypoo53219 Oct 2018 #27
Manchin failed his test as a human being. NT. bullimiami Oct 2018 #28
I think those talking points came free of charge and in the same envelope the check did. nt Snotcicles Oct 2018 #29
 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
1. Agreed. This is not a political calculation on a regular piece of legislation.
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:11 AM
Oct 2018

This is about principle. This is about what kind of country we will tolerate. Manchin will move on to make millions in the lobbyist industry some day. Where will that leave us ?

Jersey Devil

(9,981 posts)
2. Where did Manchin "parrot" right wing talking points?
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:18 AM
Oct 2018

If you are talking about his supposed comment that Ford was "confused", that was pure bullshit. He never said any such thing.

JonLP24

(29,329 posts)
21. Did he deny it?
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 03:53 PM
Oct 2018

It looks like they were in Washington DC and may have heard something that wasn't picked up by cameras. Every comment in that thread including the tweet was addressed to Joe Manchin so plenty of opportunity for his staff to deny.

LAS14

(13,922 posts)
3. I still think even the remote possibility of taking back the senate....
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:20 AM
Oct 2018

... trumps (sic) having one Dem senator say the right things.

Response to Stare Decisis (Original post)

Me.

(35,454 posts)
6. It Was/Is One Thing To Vote Yes
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:54 AM
Oct 2018

which frankly I hate....but is quite another to tell a woman who was afraid she was going to be killed by her attacker that she was confused. Disgraceful and despicable. But then I don't think I have had any positive expectations from a man whose big pharma daughter raised the price of EPI pens to such a degree that people who needed them couldn't afford them. Apple and Tree.

still_one

(93,696 posts)
7. Then contest him in the primaries in 2022. Those who feel so motivated to encourage machin to go
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 10:57 AM
Oct 2018

over to the republican party right before the midterms serves absolutely no purpose, and hurts us.

We really need to start thinking with our minds and not our emotions. This should be done on OUR terms, not on terms that would provide even more advantage to the republicans.

While this may provide a cathartic experience, usually cutting one's nose off to spite one's face only hurts the party without the nose.

As someone mentioned below if there is even a slight chance that we may obtain the majority in the Senate in 2016, that is a big deal, and we should not ignore that possibility

When the midterms are over there will be time enough for us debate and strategize among ourselves on people like Manchin, but doing it just before the midterms plays right into the republican playbook, and we really don't want that



peggysue2

(11,066 posts)
13. x1000!
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 11:40 AM
Oct 2018
When the midterms are over there will be time enough for us debate and strategize among ourselves on people like Manchin, but doing it just before the midterms plays right into the republican playbook, and we really don't want that


The Republicans are no doubt drooling over the prospect that Dems will initiate a circular firing squad a month before the most consequential election of our lifetimes. No one has to approve of Manchin's vote or comments in the moment. Nor those of Phil Bredesen in Tennessee. But to turn on our own candidates now is shortsighted and counterproductive.

That is if we truly wish to win in November and curtail the Trumpster's worst instincts.

The Kavanaugh affair has been infuriating and depressing. But neither Manchin's vote nor Bredesen's comment to support Kav would change the ultimate outcome. That dubious honor was bestowed on Susan Collins and she failed spectacularly after riding the fence for 2 weeks.

If we are adamant about changing the dynamic then we turn this around with a massive Blue Vote on November 6th. Straight Democratic, no exceptions.

Anything less plays right into the Republican playbook. Divide and conquer. Works every time!

Me.

(35,454 posts)
14. He May Not Be The Only Option
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 12:01 PM
Oct 2018

While we need him, we will need him but we may have other avenues come November. Currently, 3 longshot senate races have all three DEms with the edge.

Sinema in Arizona

Beto in Texas

Rosen in Nevada

If these three make it, we may have a whole new ball game.

peggysue2

(11,066 posts)
16. He may not be but . . .
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 12:17 PM
Oct 2018

are we willing to roll the dice if the candidates you list fall short?

Personally, I'm not.

Manchin has always been a bone of contention. The time to oppose him was during the primary not a month before a general election where our survival as a country hangs in the balance.

Now, it's all hands on deck supporting, promoting, winning everywhere we can. We simply don't have the luxury to do otherwise.

Me.

(35,454 posts)
19. And Then Some
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 02:41 PM
Oct 2018

I was surprised today, upon checking to see all three in the lead, however slightly

Maraya1969

(22,812 posts)
8. I agree. He is voting for a person who has lied under oath numerous times, is partisan
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 11:03 AM
Oct 2018

conspiratorial, has a bad temperament, is a gambler, a bad drinker and believes that the president does not have to be responsible for any crimes.

That is what Joe Manchin did. I say he goes. If he has to lower himself to pond scum to try and get votes like the republicans do then get the hell out of the Democratic party because we have morals.

yardwork

(62,432 posts)
9. Manchin is the Democratic candidate in WV and must win re-election.
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 11:14 AM
Oct 2018

Democrats in West Virginia have a moral obligation to vote for Manchin.

If the Democratic Party can retake the Senate, then we control the process. Democrats would chair the committees and have majority vote on the committees. The committees decide everything. The party that holds the majority decides what bills get discussed and what bills get voted on to become laws. Committees decide whether to open investigations.

It's not about the individual votes. It's about controlling the process. Vote for Machin and every Democrat in sight, for all seats, at the local, state, and federal levels.

It's our last chance. Our democracy depends on Democrats regaining the majority in Congress.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
17. So where do we draw the line?
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 12:36 PM
Oct 2018

When Manchin votes "Yea" for a full on white supremacist or a torturer or an ultra conservative Christian fundamentalist who thinks gays and atheists should be denied civil rights?

All of whom would likely poll very well in West Virginia.

When do we stop selling our soul for seats?





Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
25. Damn those pesky principles
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 05:00 PM
Oct 2018

The excuses for Joe flipping sexual assault survivors the middle finger are bullshit in light of senators like McCaskill, Heitkamp and Donnelly, all in extremely tight re-election races in bright red states, having the courage to vote no.

 

wellst0nev0ter

(7,509 posts)
30. You can live in NY
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 06:11 PM
Oct 2018

where the state senate has a Dem majority, but Republicans control it because a bunch of dems caucus with the pukes

This is what happens when you give blue dogs a long leash.

BumRushDaShow

(133,863 posts)
10. You may join the ranks of an OP
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 11:19 AM
Oct 2018

"post removed" that targeted a Democrat in a similar fashion.

There is a difference between criticism and outward refusal to support a Democrat.

BumRushDaShow

(133,863 posts)
12. I had attempted to post
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 11:40 AM
Oct 2018

in that particular "post removed" thread to argue what I needed to argue but discovered at the time of hitting "post my reply" that it had been locked. The poster (a long time one at that) literally went on a suicide run with that one.

On DU, it's not a matter of "truth" as it is a matter of the TOS. I think most agree with what you wrote (me included) but posting it here with the TOS as it is written, often won't fly.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
15. Several of his staffers are bullshit about his vote.
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 12:09 PM
Oct 2018

I hope that they resign enmass and one of them sign up for the 2024 West Virginia democratic primary. The only downside is that a democratic President likely would have corrected a lot of Trump's mess in WV and Manchin will be able to hide behind that President to fend off the challenge, but I hope women of WV remember.

 

JCanete

(5,272 posts)
22. Yep....such a good thing that there were totally crickets here during the primary season. Lots of
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 03:54 PM
Oct 2018

noise about how we should all get excited about other candidates like Sharice Davids, but that makes sense because there was a candidate in that race being supported by Sanders, but too many people here thought it was a bad idea to primary Manchin. We needed the Manchin's of the party, you know, for moments like this.


I don't remember Emily's List getting out there and endorsing Paula Jean Sweringin and giving her visibility, although they absolutley have endorsed primary challengers in the past. Nope. As a party, we've been complicit here.


Gothmog

(149,078 posts)
24. If the GOP control the Senate after the midterms, Lindsey Graham will be the head of the Judiciary
Sat Oct 6, 2018, 04:35 PM
Oct 2018

Committee. I do not want Lindsey Graham to be the chair of the Judiciary Committee

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