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Sun Oct 7, 2018, 08:52 PM

A few good reasons to vote for Manchin in November:

Chuck Schumer, Senate Majority Leader
Kamala Harris, Chair, Judiciary Committee
Elizabeth Warren, Chair, Environment and Public Works Committee
Dick Durbin, Chair, Appropriations Committee
Tammy Duckworth, Chair, Armed Services Committee
Bernie Sanders, Chair, Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee
Corey Booker, Chair, Rules and Administration Committee
Beto O'Rourke, Chair, Select Committee on Ethics

Etc, etc. You get the idea.

Yes, voting for Manchin is very counter-intuitive. But please, let's not have a repeat of 2016!

Pragmatism before emotions.

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Reply A few good reasons to vote for Manchin in November: (Original post)
beastie boy Oct 2018 OP
Salviati Oct 2018 #1
only my opinion Oct 2018 #29
dwayneb Oct 2018 #38
only my opinion Oct 2018 #43
Funtatlaguy Oct 2018 #2
In It to Win It Oct 2018 #3
NurseJackie Oct 2018 #4
dchill Oct 2018 #5
manor321 Oct 2018 #6
brooklynite Oct 2018 #12
pnwmom Oct 2018 #24
LAS14 Oct 2018 #7
Snotcicles Oct 2018 #8
beastie boy Oct 2018 #18
CaliforniaPeggy Oct 2018 #9
toddwv Oct 2018 #10
LisaL Oct 2018 #11
Retrograde Oct 2018 #13
beastie boy Oct 2018 #19
PoindexterOglethorpe Oct 2018 #14
OhioBlue Oct 2018 #15
Post removed Oct 2018 #21
pnwmom Oct 2018 #25
OhioBlue Oct 2018 #31
yardwork Oct 2018 #35
beastie boy Oct 2018 #17
JI7 Oct 2018 #30
yardwork Oct 2018 #34
Autumn Oct 2018 #39
GoCubsGo Oct 2018 #16
sandensea Oct 2018 #20
JoeOtterbein Oct 2018 #22
mountain grammy Oct 2018 #23
scipan Oct 2018 #44
elmac Oct 2018 #26
LenaBaby61 Oct 2018 #27
underthematrix Oct 2018 #28
Thunderbeast Oct 2018 #32
scipan Oct 2018 #45
JCanete Oct 2018 #33
Gothmog Oct 2018 #36
MineralMan Oct 2018 #37
DAMANgoldberg Oct 2018 #40
Post removed Oct 2018 #41
progressoid Oct 2018 #42
kdmorris Oct 2018 #47
scipan Oct 2018 #46

Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 08:55 PM

1. Elect Democrats.

Then Elect Better Democrats.

Repeat as desired.

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Response to Salviati (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:07 AM

29. We have to realize there are three types of Democrats and only one type of Republican

 

There are Democrats who are progressive both economically and socially
There are Democrats who are progressive economically and moderately conservative socially
There are Democrats who are moderately conservative economically and socially progressive

The Republicans are regressive both economically and socially

Democrats are a big tent party built on cooperation and tolerance

Republicans are a small tent party built on purity and intolerance

Democracy requires Democrats

Fascism requires Republicans

May we never become the mirror image of Republicans

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Response to only my opinion (Reply #29)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:50 AM

38. Party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past

That's a pretty good description. Generally agree with you but the party in power today is not reflective of the GOP in the past. Trump and the neo-fascist Right essentially hijacked the old Republican party. Republicans from 1950 - 1980 were right of center for the most part, with some prominent radical exceptions. The neo-fascist hard Right began co-opting the GOP back in the 80's starting with the Moral Majority and proceeding through Rush Limbaugh, Fox News and destruction of the Fairness Doctrine.

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Response to dwayneb (Reply #38)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 04:23 PM

43. I agree 1000 %

 

This is why I say Republicans are a small tent party built on purity and intolerance

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 08:58 PM

2. We can't afford party purity right now. Not in deeply red states.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:00 PM

3. Joe Manchin may not be what we like but he's what we got.

...and we need the numbers.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:00 PM

4. Thank you!

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:04 PM

5. Gotcha.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:04 PM

6. Of course. Then primary him when we get the chance

 

If he hasn't already switched parties by then.

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Response to manor321 (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:40 PM

12. You realize that he didn't switch Parties when he could have in 2015...or 2017?

But maybe beating him up will help him decide?

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Response to manor321 (Reply #6)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:49 PM

24. Primarying an incumbent weakens him for the general. It's not helpful,

if we want to have a Dem in the seat, to have him attacked both by Democrats and Republicans.

And W VA is a state that went for Trump by 68% over Hillary's 26%. Any Democrat that could satisfy DUers doesn't have a prayer of winning in the general.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:05 PM

7. K & R

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:09 PM

8. Lets dump the POS and put our efforts elsewhere. nt

 

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Response to Snotcicles (Reply #8)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:25 PM

18. By all means. let's! But not this November.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:09 PM

9. Those are EXCELLENT reasons!

Pragmatism before.........way before emotions.

Seeing those names as Leader and Chairs! Wow. Makes me very happy.

And this is how we do it.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:29 PM

10. Backed into a corner on this one...

The other choice is this shitstain of a human being:

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:31 PM

11. Yea, yea, yea.

He is almost a republican but better than an actual republican alternative.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 09:53 PM

13. Feinstein has seniority on Judiciary

but any of the current Dems on that committee would be fine with me.

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Response to Retrograde (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:27 PM

19. The list is purely hypothetical.

Just to illustrate what's at stake.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:05 PM

14. Yeah, vote for someone who completely betrayed the Democratic Party and all women.

Makes sense.

Makes me happy I don't live in his state.

Remind me again why it's okay to support him? Yeah, I read the OP and wouldn't it be better to have a real Democrat in his place? If someone steps forward and wants to primary him, then what?

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:17 PM

15. How exactly to you propose getting a "real Democrat" in his place when the election is in one month

between him and a Republican?

If he loses, this is what happens:

1. Republican holds the Senate seat for 6 years and runs again with the power of incumbency in a very Red State.
2. We lose a seat that brings us closer to majority control, power to stop horrible Trump pics, power to control legislation and committee hearings.
3. The State of WV loses a Democratic voice. He may be a Conservative Dem but he still carries the voice of a Democrat when he speaks at graduation ceremonies, chamber of commerce dinners, and other gatherings.
4. The WV State Democratic party is weakened through the loss of a high level elected official that helps with party infrastructure and fundraising.

Edit to add: He is the absolute best we are going to do in a Statewide election in WV at this time. It will take a generation of organizing to change. The demographics in WV are not changing like other States.

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Response to OhioBlue (Reply #15)


Response to Post removed (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:51 PM

25. The state of W VA voted for Trump by 68% to Hillary's 26%. It is a miracle

that any Dem managed to be elected Senator. The reason he was elected is because he was a popular Democratic governor first.

No other Dem in that state has a chance for the Senate. If we kneecap him in a primary, we'll end up with someone far more rightwing than he is.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 AM

31. If you primary him with someone more liberal, they will lose. WV isn't going to elect anyone to the

left of Manchin in a Senate race.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #21)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 04:09 AM

35. Hopeless.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:22 PM

17. Three questions

How do you propose to get a real Democrat in his place after the primaries are over?

If you don't vote for him, do you think you will ever get a chance to have a real Democrat in his place?

What about Chuck Schumer's chances of becoming Majority Leader in '19?

On the other hand, if you are talking 2020, I am listening!

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:09 AM

30. yeah, if it means Chuck Schumer would be majority leader it makes ALL THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE because

 

Schumer would atually have had power to stop Kavanaugh from even coming up for a vote. and the committee chair would have the power also.

i don't live in West Virginia but i know it's full of right wing bigots who voted for Trump in huge numbers so i don't expect much from there that would be better than manchin.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 04:08 AM

34. The primaries are over.

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Response to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #14)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:58 AM

39. Glad I don't have to make that choice.I have no problem with anyone voting for

or supporting him, I also have no problem with anyone who decides that they can't vote for him or support him. Actions have consequences, and he like everyone else will have to live with them.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 10:20 PM

16. And, one other VERY important reason.

We don't want a "Senator Patrick Morrisey." He is vile.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:17 PM

20. If I lived in West Virginia, I certainly would.

But let me tell you: I'd definitely be voting against the alternative, rather than for him.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:44 PM

22. Yes, then be ready to primary him in six years. That could give an opponent plenty....

...of time to beat him. That is the way it should be done. Inside our own house. Not in the political streets with the rethugs.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Sun Oct 7, 2018, 11:47 PM

23. I'm glad I don't have to vote for him.

it would be hard. I think, if the Senate ends up tied, he'll switch and screw us.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #23)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 06:42 PM

44. I wouldn't be surprised.

Anyone in WVA should consider this. He seems like he will do what is in his best interests and fk his party, always.

Still better than the alternative, I guess.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:01 AM

26. the problem with Dems pretending to be repugs is that they don't bring in progressive votes

 

and repugs would never vote for them anyway. That just leaves independents which is just a name for people too stupid to know what they want. I could never understand why Democrats vote republican in red states, it just doesn't help them. I wouldn't bet any money on him winning against any serious challenge.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:04 AM

27. Glad That I don't live in ...

West Virginia.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:05 AM

28. This article is everything

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 12:39 AM

32. In a 51-49 senate, he will flip

No question.

The GOP will offer anything. Committee chairmanships, bury West Virginia in federal cash, coal powered Navy.

He will be a Republican before noon on November 7.

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Response to Thunderbeast (Reply #32)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 06:44 PM

45. He's their ace in the hole. n/t

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 03:15 AM

33. its not counter-intuitive now. He's better than a republican. It was damn counter-intuitive and

 


problematic to vote for him over his challenger in the primary, all under the auspice promoted here that his challenger wouldn't be able to win in the GE and we needed Kavanaugh for moments like this one, AND that primary challenges themselves were BAD.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:32 AM

36. We need all of the Democrats possible

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 08:43 AM

37. Almost none of us here on DU live in West Virginia.

We could not vote for Manchin, even if we wanted to. I would not want to. I would vote for him, of course, since he is a Democrat and we need every Democratic Senator to create a majority.

If I lived in West Virginia, which I don't, I would be working nonstop to try to find a more suitable Democratic candidate for the Senate. someone who could win in that red state, but who would never even think of voting for someone like Kavanaugh.

I do not live in West Virginia, however, and am very, very glad I do not.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM

40. Keep Manchin around...

hope he doesn't switch parties during that term. Watch Richard Ojeda. If he wins in WV-3, there could be a real primary challenger come 2024. Otherwise, that's as good as it gets there.

Support Phil Bredesen in TN (not exactly liberal, but right for TN)
Kyrsten Sinema in AZ (again, liberal in the Gabby Giffords manner, right for AZ)

There are other conservadems out there. We have always had them, Wyche Fowler, Howell Heflin, Sam Nunn, Lawton Childs (FL-Gov), Fritz Hollings, mostly Zell Miller, the list goes on.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)


Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 02:13 PM

42. Heidi Heitkamp

Also in a tough race in a red state. She did the right thing.

Manchin is a coward.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #42)

Tue Oct 9, 2018, 06:56 AM

47. This

I can't vote for her, either, but I did give money to her campaign.

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Response to beastie boy (Original post)

Mon Oct 8, 2018, 06:56 PM

46. Red State Democrats Can Do Better Than Joe Manchin

But Manchinís vote should call old party strategies into question. If the Democratic Party canít count on its own senators for votes as morally pivotal as the Kavanaugh confirmation, its big tent might just be too big. Its tolerance for conservative members might not be as pragmatic as it appears, either. Since Trump took office in 2016, a number of Democrats to Manchinís left have performed surprisingly well so-called red states, winning some unexpected primary elections and polling well against Republican candidates. The Democratic candidate for Florida governor, Andrew Gillum, has been campaigning on Medicare for All and still leads Republican Ron DeSantis by four points in a recent Florida Southern College poll. In Georgiaís gubernatorial race, progressive Stacey Abrams has locked Republican Brian Kemp in a dead heat. In other races, recent polling suggested that progressive congressional candidates Jess King and Randy Bryce, running in Pennsylvaniaís 11th congressional district and Wisconsinís first congressional district respectively, have closed gaps with their Republican opponents to single digits. And in one of the yearís most surprising contests, Democrat Beto OíRourke has trapped Ted Cruz in a race for his political life.

Even in West Virginia, support for Trump doesnít necessarily guarantee support for down-ballot Republican candidates, or for conservative politics as a category. Trump won 68 percent of the vote in 2016. But less than half of the stateís registered voters actually voted for Trump. The president won 489,671 of the stateís registered voters, out of a 2016 total of 1,274,887. In the stateís conservative third congressional district, Democrat Richard Ojeda has managed to turn his race against Republican Carol Miller into a true toss-up. Thatís partly due to Ojedaís particular idiosyncrasies: Like many of his would-be constituents, he voted for Trump, though itís a decision he says he now regrets. As a state legislator, his unyielding support for the teachersí strike that gripped the state in February and March earned him an energized following that very well could put him in office. Politically, Ojeda now has more in common with Bernie Sanders than he does with Joe Manchin Ė and that tilt to the left has hardly harmed his prospects.


http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/10/red-state-democrats-can-do-better-than-joe-manchin.html

I don't disagree with OP but the idea that we are stuck with Repub lite senators like him is short-sighted and wrong, I think. Hope he draws some really good primary opponents next time (IF he is still a dem).

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