Michael Avenatti, please go away

[oberliner]

BY FORMER REP. STEVE ISRAEL (D-N.Y.)

In a week where the president of the United States disparaged two critics as “Pocahontas” and “Horseface,” no wonder most of the electorate is fatigued by our political discourse. Now Michael Avenatti enters the fray.

Avenatti is repurposing Michelle Obama’s “when they go low, we go high” to “when they go low, I say hit back harder.” Last week, he challenged Donald Trump Jr. to a mixed martial arts fight. Yes, Democrats should hit back harder, but with a strategy to win votes rather than headlines. Hitting below the belt may be cathartic for a dispirited base, but I’m more interested in victory than catharsis. It is nearly impossible to beat Donald Trump in a race to the bottom. He will outdo you every time.

Democrats stand a strong chance of winning control of the House not because our candidates hit lower, but sharper. Not by calling their opponents names, but by articulating solutions. That is the discourse that wins votes, particularly from nonpartisans who are exhausted by the vitriol. We are talking about the three branches of government established by our Constitution, not a three ring circus.

What is a better strategy? Challenging Trump Jr. to three rounds in the ring or, say, running M.J. Hegar in Texas? She is an Air Force helicopter pilot who received a Purple Heart from her service in Afghanistan. Her leading campaign goals are not to disparage or insult, but rather “fight to make health care more affordable for everyone, support military families, and work hard to protect Medicare and Social Security.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/411721-michael-avenatti-please-go-away

About the author:

Steve Israel represented New York in Congress for 16 years. He served as chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee from 2011 to 2015.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I agree. But just in case...

[oberliner]

3. I think the op-ed makes some salient points

I hope others will take the time to read it and consider them.

[Fullduplexxx]

2. Not surprised to see this on the swill anything to help the gop

[oberliner]

4. Steve Israel does not want to help the GOP

Quite the opposite.

[Fullduplexxx]

24. It was the hill to which i refered when i made the crack about helping the gop

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Did you read the article? Steve Israel is a Democrat who does NOT want GOPers to win,

and he makes some really excellent points about how many new Democrats, especially women, are on track to win without getting into a mud-wrestling contest with Trump.

[Fullduplexxx]

23. It was the hill to which i refered when i made the crack about helping the gop

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. But The Hill published an article by a Democrat who does not want the GOP to win.

So there's that.

[Fullduplexxx]

46. But it's a democrat criticizing avenatti telling him to be quiet

Cons see avenatti as a part of the dems . That's why the hill ran it b/c the cons will see it as dems telling dems to shut up . The hill offering comfort to the cons

[shanny]

159. just out of curiosity, do you read the Intercept?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

162. No. I don't have much use for Glen Greenwald.

Why do you ask?

[shanny]

164. context

of the sub-thread from reply #2 on

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

166. Well, not knowing much about the Intercept, I haven't the faintest idea

what that concept might be.

[shanny]

167. then maybe you should try expanding your horizons

The Intercept is more than Glenn Greenwald, and knowledge of source biases--including him or the Intercept or Steve Israel or the Hill--is important imho.

Just a PSA. Have a good day.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

168. I can assure you that The Hill isn't my only source of information.

And I do research source bias. I just don't like The Intercept, and especially Greenwald.

[GeorgeGist]

5. To each his own ...

I prefer fighters when it's war.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

10. But a smart fighter chooses his battles and his battlefields.

I don't think getting into an insult contest with Trump on Twitter is being very smart or waging a useful battle because Trump loves those kinds of confrontations. Why fight on his turf? You never let your opponent choose the battlefield.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. The person who determines the terms of the debate wins.

[bearsfootball516]

6. I'm torn with Avenatti.

He's a fighter and a bulldog, which you need when taking on Trump. At the same time, everyone has heard the expression "You don't mud wrestle with a pig - the pig likes it and you get muddy"

He would much rather everyone be talking about how he called Stormy Daniels "Horseface" rather than the actual problems in his administration. It's part of why he won in 2016, because people spent so much time talking about his insults that they didn't have time to think about how he didn't actually have any policy positions and how much better Hillary was.

Trump knows he's not smart enough to win in a battle of intelligence, so if he can turn it into a battle of insults, he'll win every time because he doesn't care what's being said about him as long as they aren't talking about policy.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

15. So far, Avenatti's "taking on Trump" has consisted of lawsuits he hasn't actually won,

lots of media appearances and engaging in insult wars on Twitter. Yes, it's fun to see someone throw bullshit back at Trump, but how does that advance the Democratic party's agenda or get its candidates elected? I don't see any strategy for winning back Congress or the presidency that can be constructed out of Avenatti's actions.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. Isn't the Stormy Daniels lawsuit revelations the reason Cohen was raided?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

40. No. Cohen was already under federal investigation in New York for various financial crimes,

including FARA violations, and was separately being investigated in the independent counsel probe because his name appeared in the Steele dossier. The raid on his home and office to seize records were related to those investigations and were unrelated to Stormy Daniels' case. Avenatti tried to intervene in the SDNY case, claiming the seized records might include information relating to Daniels, which he did not want made public. However, NY attorney ethics rules require that a lawyer who appears of record in a case can't then talk about the case in the media; and the judge told him that if he wanted to intervene he'd have to stop going on TV to talk about the case. So Avenatti dropped his petition to intervene.

[jberryhill]

114. No

Last edited Wed Oct 17, 2018, 10:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Roosters don’t make the sun come up either.

Do the math:

1. The WSJ published information about the payoff in January.

2. Avenatti did not even represent Daniels when she signed the denial in late January, and certainly not when Cohen took it to arbitration in the last week of February.

That means that Avenatti had to have been hired at the very last few days of February at the earliest, and her suit was filed March 6.

Fast forward to the Cohen raid. The Cohen raid was April 9. It was based on a referral to the USAO-SDNY from Mueller which had to have taken place quite a number of weeks earlier (as stated in the US filings) for that office to conduct its own investigation of the referral and get clearance to file for the warrants that were executed.

One of the most skillful things Avenatti has done is to get you to believe he was behind the Cohen investigation by the USAO-SDNY. In point of fact, the feds didn’t want him mucking about in their case and said so in relation to some of Avenattis antics before the judge told him to fold up his circus tent.

[monmouth4]

7. Speak for yourself. I love his involvement and method of getting under the trumpster's and yours

for that matter, skin...

[50 Shades Of Blue]

12. +1

[LanternWaste]

30. Avenatti seems to frustrate all the right people. nt

[fallout87]

44. Oh for sure.. Avenatti's participation in the Kavanaugh

Hearings really worked to our advantage and kept him off the court didn't it!

[shanny]

86. As if the fix wasn't in already

[EffieBlack]

153. Because if Avenatti didn't exist, it would have gone much better and we would have stopped Kavanaugh

I love how some Dems so quickly fall for the GOP Bre'r Rabbit schtick every time, without fail.

[fallout87]

154. And how do you know what the outcome would have been?

For fucks sake, Collins named Avenatti as a reason she was voting for keg kavanaugh. But by all means, keep holding this guy up as your hero.

[Nay]

158. Gee, Collins did that because she is an ASSHOLE who wants to denigrate anyone who

is getting under Trumpolini's skin. Good God. Did you actually fall for her statement??

[EffieBlack]

169. Seriously?

Collins also said she thought the tax could wouldn't blow up the deficit and Kavanaugh won't vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.

But, by all means, let's let what Susan Collins thinks dictate how we function.

[redstateblues]

110. I like his style-I like his combative nature

We need more of that. Hopefully if we win the House we can kick some GOP butts

[blue cat]

126. +1

[oberliner]

140. The op-ed in the OP was written by Steve Israel

He's a Democrat.

[WeekiWater]

9. He is currently a useful tool.

I don’t see any need for him to go away. If he promotes himself much more then Democrats will vet him and that will be the end.

[JonLP24]

11. What is the problem?

Trump called her "horseface" and Avenatti called him a misogynist.

[Kingofalldems]

18. See Post #16

[LanternWaste]

14. As Avenatti's neither a spokesman nor a candidate for the Democrats,

As Avenatti's neither a spokesman nor a candidate for the Democrats, Mr. Israel appears to be giving Avenatti hitherto unknown powers and abilities.

Hopefully, his creation will in the end, be better than Infinity War... quite the let down of the franchise.

[Va Lefty]

19. I notice a trend here

[oberliner]

33. Many Democrats are critical of Avenatti and his approach

I definitely count myself among them and hope to convince others as well.

[LanternWaste]

39. Is Avenatti's approach to call Democrats delusional?

Is Avenatti's approach calling Democrats delusional because they think a Republican will win a tight race? Is that the approach you ("and many Democrats" ) are critical of?

'cause that wasn't him. And the Dem won.

[oberliner]

56. Yes

He has called Democrats "out of touch" and "clueless" as well as "weak".

[shanny]

165. Annnnd many others are not and applaud his approach

I definitely count myself among them and hope to convince others as well.

[oberliner]

171. Exactly

Hence the reason to have such a conversation here and present both cases.

[pintobean]

108. It's called stalking.

[Kingofalldems]

127. I will continue to respond to these attacks on Democrats.

[pintobean]

146. Is Michael Avenatti a Democrat?

He holds no office, and he attacks Democrats, too. It's obvious that he hates Trump, but a lot of people do, regardless of party.

Meanwhile, you're stalking and harassing a long time DUer - a member in good standing, who's been here a dozen years and has over 50k posts. No one has appointed you the DU purity police.

Who is really attacking Democrats?

[spooky3]

156. He's been raising money for Dems since the summer. He has

Articulated positions consistent with past Dem platforms. He is considering a run against Trump in 2020.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

[pintobean]

157. Yeah, I think you missed the point.

[spooky3]

170. I don't think so. Nt

[shanny]

160. why yes he is a Democrat

and apparently has been since his college days when he worked for The Research Group, a political opposition research and media firm run by Rahm Emanuel...good enough for you?

[uponit7771]

20. +1, they are starting to get a little silly

[oberliner]

34. It's not silly

It goes to show how many Democrats share the same values.

[Stallion]

22. Thank You for Diggin' That Up

[oberliner]

32. Hopefully the message has gotten through

I am glad that many other Democrats agree with me on this topic.

[Kingofalldems]

41. Please, more and more are hip to this nonsense.

Attacks on Democrats again and again.

[oberliner]

52. Steve Israel is a Democrat

In fact, he is the former chair of the DCC.

[Kingofalldems]

54. See Post #16.

[oberliner]

61. I hope people read all those posts you linked to in Post #16

It does seem like a lot of Democrats are coming around to a similar understanding.

[LanternWaste]

63. Things often "seem" a way merely because we desire them to.

Try to avoid letting your bias outweigh rational thought, and provide objective evidence supporting your premise.

Or simply continue with the bumper stickers and fortune cookies if that's the best you have to support your conclusions (and rationalize the avoidance of #1 as well... that's always bemusing).

[oberliner]

78. That's a very good point

We all have biases, and I will make an effort to try to see past my own with respect to this topic and others.

And thank you for responding.

[Kingofalldems]

77. No it doesn't.

I know right wingers hate him, that's for sure.

[oberliner]

80. Steve Israel (D) just wrote this op-ed calling for Avenatti to "go away"

He was head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee until November 2014.

[shanny]

161. yep, from 2011 to 2014

how did he do?

[Squinch]

72. LOL! Well done!

[brush]

122. She's got an agenda all right, wonder if it's to divide Dems? Sure seems that way.

[mart48]

17. On the other hand . . .

Maybe to fight a pig you need to enter the sty

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. But the pig always wins. You get dirty and the pig likes it.

Pigs are also capable of killing people. Any farmer will tell you not to get into the sty with the pigs.

[11 Bravo]

91. I believe more pork is consumed by humans ...

than humans are consumed by our porcine friends.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

95. No doubt. But pigs are not turned into pork by getting into their pens and wrestling with them.

If that were the only way to do it, bacon would be pretty rare and expensive.

[gopiscrap]

150. welcome to DU

[David__77]

21. I think a strategy can win votes AND headlines.

...

[dameatball]

25. Avenatti is an attorney standing up for his client, not a candidate running for public office.

How he chooses to conduct himself in regard to his client does not besmirch the actual campaigns of any Democratic candidates.


M. J. Hegar is a fantastic candidate, but I fail to see any actual detriment to her by Mr. Avenatti's representation of his client. The OP seems to want to make a connection that simply is not there.

[oberliner]

51. Avenatti on possible 2020 presidential run: 'I'm getting more serious by the week'

And that was a month ago.

https://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/406923-avenatti-on-possible-2020-presidential-run-im-getting-more-serious-by-the

[dameatball]

94. Yeah, I know. But he is not a candidate at this time. I think we have plenty of good Democratic

candidates out there already. But he is not yet one of them. I agree with you that the situation could change. But at this time he is an attorney representing his client. The OP just made no sense to me. It is attempting to equate him as a candidate who is representing Democratic positions, which he is not. Many attorneys put up billboards on highways to promote themselves. This one pokes Trump in the eye to accomplish the same thing. I have no problem with that.
I will let things play out and the OP could end up being well founded. But for now it just does not fly. I certainly could end up being wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

[oberliner]

103. That's true

I agree that the OP only really makes sense if Avenatti is seen as a serious potential Democratic candidate for POTUS. There do seem to be indications that things are tending in that direction, but who knows.

[BeyondGeography]

27. Sorry Steve, this is what happens when you lose

The CW didn’t work. And now we’re staring at President Trump, R control of the House and the Senate and a Supreme Court that would do the 19th century proud. Stamp out one Avenatti in this environment and two more will pop up. Deal with it.

[oberliner]

50. Wow

Not a lot of love for the former Democratic CC chair.

[BeyondGeography]

64. The only thing memorable about Steve Israel is the Jesus H. Gun joke that Conan O'Brien told

using Israel’s name as a setup at the WHC dinner.

[SaintLouisBlues]

28. Then we can ask the Washington Generals how to beat the Globetrotters

[oberliner]

36. Are you comparing the Democratic Party to the Washington Generals?

[SaintLouisBlues]

43. Do you always ask obtuse questions? The answer to both questions is yes

[oberliner]

49. It was rhetorical

I did not actually think you were suggesting the Democratic Party was akin to the Washington Generals (and, presumably, the Republican Party is the Harlem Globetrotters in your analogy?), but apparently, you were.

[SaintLouisBlues]

58. Yes, me and lots of other DU'ers have used this meme. This is where I learned the reference. And yes

the Democrats are the Generals. You do know the Generals lose, right? You do know which party holds all branches of the Federal government, and most state governments?

I'm sticking with obtuse.

[oberliner]

60. Yes, I know that the Washington Generals always lose

That's why I was surprised to see such a comparison here.

[SaintLouisBlues]

73. Surprised? Are you living under a bridge?

[ret5hd]

79. Why yes! Yes he does!

[oberliner]

112. I respect and admire the Democratic Party

We have done very well over the years.

[shanny]

163. definitions are so...flexible these days

I for one define "very well" somewhat differently

[redstateblues]

109. That is funny!

[TheRealNorth]

31. I really don' take Avenatti seriously

But if he makes Trump and Republican's blood pressures rise, who am I to argue.

[BlueStater]

35. He's a lawyer who doesn't hold any public office.

He speaks for himself, not the Democratic Party. People like you and Steve Israel are the ones giving him more influence than he actually has.

[oberliner]

37. He is running for president

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. And that's exactly why he tries so hard to get media face time,

and when that doesn't work because other events have overshadowed the Stormy Daniels case he engages in Twitter battles with Trump. I don't think he has a chance in hell at being nominated, for a lot of reasons; but it bothers me that so many people seem to regard him as the Democrats' savior just because he's aggressive and brash. How does being Trumpier than Trump get Democrats elected?

[oberliner]

48. My thoughts exactly

It is strange that people don't even want to engage in a conversation about this.

[Kingofalldems]

53. I think it's strange oberliner that you post OPs attacking him on a regular basis.

[oberliner]

59. I'm proud to stand with the many Democrats who are raising these points

I wish more DUers would give them further consideration.

[Dorian Gray]

113. Why?

I'm not oberliner, but I share his/her wariness about Avenatti.

We have the ULTIMATE self-promoter in office right now. Selfishly self-promoting and doing what ever the fuck he wants? Absolutely no integrity or ethical compass. Why do we need our own Democratic version?

And maybe I'm feeling Avenatti short, but that's only because he's SELF-PROMOTING all the damn time.

[Dorian Gray]

111. He's aggressive and brash

and I have no clue what level of integrity he has. But I don't want Trump Lite as a Democratic Candidate. I personally want someone with integrity, passion and compassion. Avenatti seems like a self-promoter, first and foremost.

[Gregory Peccary]

67. No

He is CONSIDERING running. Big difference.

[smirkymonkey]

74. Thank YOU!

[Polly Hennessey]

45. Fixated on Avenatti, are you?

Calm down. Avenatti is doing just fine.

[oberliner]

47. Steve Israel (D) wrote this op-ed

I read it and thought it was worth sharing. What do you think of the points he raised?

[Squinch]

71. Avenatti IS doing fine. That makes some people very, very upset.

[Squinch]

55. Working hard again, I see.

[oberliner]

57. Hopefully the message has gotten through

Steve Israel is a prominent Democratic Party activist who makes points worth considering.

Will you give this op-ed some reflection?

[Squinch]

70. Oh, your message is loud and clear. And no, I won't give the op ed "reflection."

[MineralMan]

62. Avenatti is free to speak as he chooses. We all are.

Frankly, he's not all that important. He makes worthwhile noise, though.

He's not going to change any elections. He acts as a foil to some others who are far too cautious and timid. He balances them out a little.

Let him rant on. It will do us good.

[Autumn]

65. No. I would rather Aveanetti stay. Israel should know that Trump will in no way

elevate his discourse towards the Democratic women who will win their elections. In all probability he will sink even further down into the gutter in the way he treats them. Keeping civil while Trump shits all over us and the world is a losing game.

[oberliner]

84. Why does our side have to abandon civility because of Trump?

[LanternWaste]

88. What leads you to believe one voice is representative of "our side?"

Unless an elected official, one voice is representative of person... unless you're giving Avenatti super-human powers as well.

I hope this helps assist you, as you 'seem' thoroughly confused on the issue.

[oberliner]

100. That's a very good point

Your post assists me quite a bit and does help to clear up some confusion.

Thank you for the response.

[jberryhill]

116. Ah, but there is only one permissible perspective on Avenatti

Correct?

[Autumn]

96. Why do we have to be civil with asshole bullies like Trump and the Republicans?

Stormy was very civil with her "Game on Tiny" remark.

[oberliner]

101. Because we are not like them

Or at least I hope not.

My approach would be to focus on issues and avoid name-calling.

[Autumn]

107. That's the whole problem. We play nice and work with them and they hate us, mock us

call us names, won't work with us and then ram whatever they want down our throats. While we focus on the issues they lie, cheat and win. Being nice since Bill Clinton has us where we are at.

[Gregory Peccary]

66. There is plenty of room for Avenatti in the Dem party

Eating our own will have no positive outcome.

[Danmel]

68. Steve Israel is my former Congressman

I know him personally. He most definitely wants Democrats to win.

[lancelyons]

69. I agree with Avenatti and Holder

For to many years the GOP use underhanded tricks and deplorable tactics to nail dems and get their way.

Dems for the most part just shut their face and move on hoping the press will uncover the terrible deeds of the GOP.

It doesnt work. Over and OVER this happens and the Dems get abused.


Avenatti and Holder an not advocating for being deplorable. What they are advocating for is.


MAKE THE DAMN GOP pay harshly for their NASTY UNDERHANDED tricks. Make them PAY LEGALLY but make it harsh.

This is still the high road, this is still doing it right.

[dembotoz]

75. So the congressman wants us to be snowflakes

No thanks

[oberliner]

82. He wants us to "fight to make health care more affordable for everyone"

According to the op-ed.

[dembotoz]

98. By Rolling over and playing dead??? Hell no

[oberliner]

99. By focusing on the issues and avoiding childish name-calling

[dembotoz]

119. Really?? Bullshit

[oberliner]

121. That's what he says in the OP

I specifically bolded that part.

[dembotoz]

123. U roll over and play dead..I fight.. period

[oberliner]

128. That's not a fair characterization of the argument being made in the OP

[dembotoz]

143. Looks fair to me...possum ain't my style..good luck tho

[SCantiGOP]

76. Thanks for posting this

Avenatti is a narcissistic self-promoter only interested in publicity. I firmly believe he hurts the Democratic cause.
Does any Democrat really want to rally around a guy know as “that porn star lawyer who’s always on TV”?

[oberliner]

81. You're welcome

I appreciate your response and insights.

[oswaldactedalone]

83. Kick ass and take names

Michael. We need that on our side. I’m tired of living under Thuglican rule. They’ve been kicking our ass for 30 years with no end in site. About time we had an Avenatti on our side.

[Va Lefty]

87. +1000

[shanny]

89. Steve Israel doesn't speak for me

nor am I impressed with his strategy.

[Sprite]

90. Look

Amy Schumer has bigger balls than Chuck Schumer. Chuck writes letters while Amy gets out and protests and gets arrested. The Dems have to get out of their own way. I say let Avenatti speak up. The Dem establishment needs to embrace us liberals!

[gay texan]

92. Loathe him or love him

We've needed someone like him for sometime.

If anything he is showing us it's ok to fight and raise hell against the nazi regime.

Everytime we play nice around the GOP, we lose.

[lordbateman]

93. Avenatti bashers please go away. (nt)

[oberliner]

106. Welcome to DU

[John Fante]

97. Good rule of thumb: if the OP is for it, so is the GOP.

[oberliner]

105. Steve Israel has spent his life fighting the GOP

He is a longtime Democratic Party activist and the former head of the DCCC.

He is the author of the op-ed.

[Kingofalldems]

115. Good to see more and more DUers seeing the light.

[USALiberal]

102. LOL, nice try. nt

[oberliner]

104. Steve Israel (former Democratic Party CC chair) wrote this op-ed

Maybe worth giving it a read at least.

[brush]

117. What's your agenda? You keep posting this stuff as if you're trying to divide Democrats.

Last edited Wed Oct 17, 2018, 09:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Enough already.

We saw what happened in 2016 when dividers split Dem voters.

[oberliner]

118. The OP is an op-ed written by the former chair of the Democratic Party CC

The agenda is thinking of the most effective ways of getting as many Democrats elected as possible.

[brush]

120. It's promotes division so why post it?

[jcgoldie]

124. Ding Ding

Pretty sure you figured out the OPs agenda.

[oberliner]

129. It promotes a spirited discussion among people with the shared goal of electing Democrats

Which is one of the points of a message board / discussion forum like this one.

Talking about which approaches are effective and which ones aren't - even if there is some disagreement among us here - is worthwhile.

[brush]

135. See post 120. We are all Democrats. Time to stop the divisiveness.

Another poster listed all the many times you have posted similar divisiveness against Avenatti.

When will you get the message to stop this?

[oberliner]

138. Criticism of Michael Avenatti is not divisive

He insults Democrats and has an approach that some find unhelpful. We ought to be able to engage in a thoughtful discussion about his approach - some favor it, some do not. Such a discussion need not be divisive. This is a discussion forum. We are all on the same side (wanting to elect more Democrats). We can talk about how best to achieve that goal.

[brush]

141. How many time do you plan to do this? Move on already as it makes some wonder...

if you're our side. Some are openly calling you a troll.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211290275

Again, time to move on.

[Vinca]

125. If Steve Israel didn't belong to the Spineless Democrats Club, we wouldn't need Avenatti.

[oberliner]

130. In what way do you find him to be spineless?

[Vinca]

145. This post is the first time I've heard his name mentioned in a year or more.

If he was in front of a camera - preferably with a long list of other Democrats - telling it like it is with Trump in power, it would be a great service to the country. Instead, we're currently being bombarded in the media with how close the horse race is and there are few Democrats poking their heads out of their hidey holes to refute GOP policies, elaborate on GOP lies or otherwise push back. It's not just Israel, it's about 90% of Democrats who can command media attention if they so choose. I wish I didn't have to look to Avenatti, but our current political climate is more P.T. Barnum than J.F.K. I hope it all goes back to normal after Tiny is gone. Now I'm off to light a candle for the Great God of Blood Clots again.

[oberliner]

149. Fair enough

You raise some good points. I was a fan of Howard Dean, myself. I thought he was a particularly good chairman of the DNC.

[Vinca]

151. Me, too. I wish he would get more involved again.

It still bugs me the whole yell incident was pretty much manufactured because of a lousy sound system. It made him sound like a nut rather than the enthusiastic candidate that he was.

[betsuni]

131. Oh, oberliner.

Here is a tasty kick-treat for you. We know what you're doing.

[oberliner]

132. No need for the kick

This thread seems not to have been effective in getting people to consider the actual content of Steve Israel's op-ed.

Only a few seem to have even read it, based on the responses.

Did you?

if so, do you have any thoughts?

[betsuni]

133. Hell is other people.

[oberliner]

134. I bolded the section that I thought was most worthy of consideration

Namely:

"Democrats stand a strong chance of winning control of the House not because our candidates hit lower, but sharper. Not by calling their opponents names, but by articulating solutions."

What's your take on that?

[betsuni]

136. ...

[oberliner]

139. Thank you for sharing your insights

[disillusioned73]

137. When your void of..

revolutionary policy differences and a full throated campaign to highlight those differences.. the circus will suffice for the masses..

[lillypaddle]

142. Are we really so shallow

that we would get behind this guy - he actually reminds me of trump. He's a "street fighter," telling it "like it is."

OMG, we need a grownup in the WH so fucking BADLY, not another media freak. I used to like him, but now I've had it with him. He is a total embarrassment.

Go away, Avenatti and take Bernie with you, please.

[Azathoth]

144. I'm not a fan of Avenatti, but the old dogma about running on "solutions" is dead

Republicans now control every branch of the federal government and the vast majority of state governments, and they didn't run on a single rational serious policy "solution." They ran entirely on racism, nativism, paranoia, hate, unhinged conspiracy theories, smear attacks, and a truly awe-inspiring array of transparently incoherent and unserious propaganda slogans ("Repeal and replace", raise revenue by cutting taxes!, etc.)

Until Israel can explain to me why the GOP is now running everything while the party of "sharper hits" and "articulating solutions" is powerless, he can shove it.

[Bonx]

147. Avenatti will be our candidate for President!

Very likely.

[oberliner]

148. Do you really think so?

Biden or Harris seem much more likely.

[Kajun Gal]

152. Please stop bashing him!

[Chickensoup]

155. Oh my God!!!!

I am sick and tired of people who have
no clue about history. Show me one
Dictator who was defeated by going high
Concept. Let's see so when Hitler spread
his dark wings over Europe we should
have resisted with roses.
During The Roman Empire 9/10 of the
Population of the ancient world were
enslaved. The mogul kings enslaved
and blundered cities, killing millions
in their wake so maybe the victims
should have been more civil in their
resistance to their murders.
When the Spaniard plundered Peru
killing more than 20 millions of the
native population after stealing their
treasures maybe the Indian population
Should have read them poetry.
Maybe Lincoln should have avoided
the civil war all together and just
taken the higher road to surrender
so he can avoid bloodshed.
No higher road than that of Jesus
And the Romans crucified him
Finally mr kashogy who was dismembered in the Saudi embassy should have
Been more peaceful in his resistance
To the absolute corruption of the Saudi
Rulers by keeping quit !!!!
Do we have to wait until it is too late.
We can vote and push back at the same time.
Give me a break!!!