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Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:46 PM

Is genocide an overstatement for what's happening in America under Trump?

Hyperbole or reality? How far along are we, based on the steps below?

35 replies, 1457 views

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Reply Is genocide an overstatement for what's happening in America under Trump? (Original post)
True Dough Oct 2018 OP
Downtown Hound Oct 2018 #1
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #2
yardwork Oct 2018 #7
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #14
grantcart Oct 2018 #18
Hortensis Oct 2018 #28
DinahMoeHum Oct 2018 #3
violetpastille Oct 2018 #4
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #6
violetpastille Oct 2018 #13
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #15
violetpastille Oct 2018 #24
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #26
yardwork Oct 2018 #5
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #8
yardwork Oct 2018 #11
True Dough Oct 2018 #17
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #20
True Dough Oct 2018 #22
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #25
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #19
regnaD kciN Oct 2018 #9
Takket Oct 2018 #10
McCamy Taylor Oct 2018 #12
meadowlander Oct 2018 #16
milestogo Oct 2018 #21
RHMerriman Oct 2018 #23
GulfCoast66 Oct 2018 #27
Turin_C3PO Oct 2018 #29
guillaumeb Oct 2018 #30
dewsgirl Oct 2018 #31
True Dough Oct 2018 #32
lindysalsagal Oct 2018 #33
LuckyCharms Oct 2018 #34
True Dough Oct 2018 #35

Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:47 PM

1. Currently, an overstatement

But, if we don't nip what's happening in the bud now, then one day in the not-too-distant future it might not be.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:48 PM

2. Yes, it is an overstatement of the worst kind...

Words have meaning, and hyperbole accomplishes nothing but robbing them of those meanings.

Grow up.

Legal definition of genocide
Genocide is defined in Article 2 of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948) as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."


Source:
[link:http://www.un.org/ar/preventgenocide/adviser/pdf/osapg_analysis_framework.pdf|]

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Response to RHMerriman (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:54 PM

7. Seems to me that some of those activities are being done by the U.S. at the southern border.

I'd be careful about dismissing what's happening and telling people to "grow up."

Some pretty smart people are worried. Read Tim Snyder's books.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:03 PM

14. Over the top alarmist rhetoric and willful mis-statement of legally-defined terminology is

Over the top alarmist rhetoric and willful mis-statement of legally-defined terminology is what demagogues do, not clear-eyed realists and patriots.

In other words, don't try to out-trump the Trumpists.

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Response to RHMerriman (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:09 PM

18. +1

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Response to RHMerriman (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:50 PM

28. Yes, by any definition, it would tragically deny genocide

for what it is, which would serves only potential monsters and their dreadful followers.

Please note the last item. Language is extremely powerful societal defense, not just something to be corrupted by self serving minds, including to be weaponized by those of evil intent.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:49 PM

3. Overstatement - CIVIL COLD WAR would be a better term.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:51 PM

4. I see the first stage being accomplished.

As for number 2:

Every time I see one of those 23andme commercials I mutter to myself.

"Anybody who knows for sure they have Mexican ancestry needs to stay far, far away from that shit."



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Response to violetpastille (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:53 PM

6. Except there's no "Mexican" DNA ancestry...


Someone with ancestors from Mexico will (likely) have a mix of European, Native American, African, and/or Asian ancestry, same as almost everyone in the Western Hemisphere.

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Response to RHMerriman (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:03 PM

13. Right.

We don't disagree.

But if the worst case scenario comes to pass and there was a flag on "especially high percentage of Native American" yeah.

Maybe later. Not now. That money can go a lot of other places.

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Response to violetpastille (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:05 PM

15. Okay...

Okay ... not trying to be argumentative, but we (Democrats) are supposed to be the reality-based community.

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Response to RHMerriman (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:27 PM

24. Sure.

I'm not trying to argue with you either. I'm just typing.

I am a registered Democrat. I vote a straight ticket.

And I also don't trust the Trump administration as far as I can throw them. I'm also eyeing those big jars of peanut butter.

I'm not all CT, but why take an unforced risk?

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Response to violetpastille (Reply #24)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:38 PM

26. Fair enough


Fair enough.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:52 PM

5. Look at #4. Trump and his minions routinely speak of their enemies as vermin.

We're not at genocide yet but this is absolutely how it begins.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:55 PM

8. Rhetoric, however bigoted, is not genocide; genocide is a crime defined by international law

Rhetoric, however bigoted, is not genocide; genocide is a crime defined by international law.

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Response to RHMerriman (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:58 PM

11. Children are being forcibly separated from their families by the U.S. government at the border.

Thousands of these children, some as young as infants, have been flown secretly to other cities where they are being "fostered" by evangelical Christian adoption agencies contracted by our government.

Read the final line in your post above where you quote the definition.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:08 PM

17. There's room for diversity of opinion here

Just because the poster above you wants to shut the conversation down doesn't mean he will succeed. I don't believe we're witnessing genocide today, but we could be on that road. Gotta keep our eyes open and keep speaking out against the hate-fueled actions of the reich-wing.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:12 PM

20. Shutting down debate? Hardly. Advocating for truthful and accurate use of language?

Shutting down debate? Hardly. Advocating for truthful and accurate use of language?

Always.

If that offends you, too bad.

You want to use legal language? Use it accurately.

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Response to RHMerriman (Reply #20)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:22 PM

22. That's right, hardly!

You'll notice my OP was a question. You've stated your opinion, repeatedly. Move on.

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Response to True Dough (Reply #22)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:30 PM

25. Or what, exactly?


Your own source holds the same opinion; go here:

[link:http://genocidewatch.net/genocide-2/what-is-genocide/|]


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Response to yardwork (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:09 PM

19. I've read it many times; that's why I posted it...

As brutal as the current administration's policies regarding families that apply for refugee status at the US-Mexico border are, they are not genocide by any stretch of the imagination, and to state such is foolish.

Application for asylum in the United States is an overt act by the asylum seeker; there is no coercion.

Words have meanings; abandoning those meanings does nothing to further rational debate.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:55 PM

9. Hard to say...

Right now, we could be in the earliest stages of what could become genocide. Or it might be that the signs that concern us may peter out to nothing. One thjng’s for sure: the chances of it becoming genocide are far greater if the current crop of Republicans remain in power after this November (and 2020).

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:57 PM

10. massive overstatement

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 03:59 PM

12. Been there, done that. Look at this land's first people.

Trump did not start the genocide. He is just bringing it back.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:06 PM

16. Only stage 9 is technically genocide

but we should all be concerned that we're on stage 7.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:21 PM

21. Try reading some world news for a change.

Genocide is currently happening in several countries. Not the US>

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Response to milestogo (Reply #21)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:24 PM

23. True that...

True that...

First world problems, indeed.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:47 PM

27. Not only a gross overstatement,

But extremely offensive to those who have been victims of a genocide.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:51 PM

29. Overstatement.

For now I’d say we’re at stage 4.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 04:59 PM

30. Yes.

But we are at #7 at this point.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 08:07 PM

31. Ordinarily I would steer clear of a thread

like this. That being said we have no idea what is actually happening in those camps, only what they want us to see for the most part. I am not saying they are committing genocide at this time. I can't help but fear, there are those amongst ICE, CBP, etc. that wouldn't hesitate to follow orders directing them to do just that. I also think if this administration thought they could get away with it, they would do it in a heartbeat.

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 09:02 PM

32. We can't let it get this far...

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 09:04 PM

33. Suicide beats all other statistics, car crashes, opioid overdoeses, obesity deaths, smoking

Those numbers are staggaring, without any politics....

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Response to True Dough (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 09:08 PM

34. Not an overstatement.

Genocide involves more that the actual killing, as your OP states. If you view genocide as a series of steps, then we are indeed experiencing genocide.

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Response to LuckyCharms (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 27, 2018, 09:14 PM

35. We can't rule it out, LuckyCharms

It is alarming how we seem to be moving steadily in that direction. We must remain vigilant.

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