Even if we win the House and/or Senate we will not be in a better country.

[Eko]

Last edited Thu Nov 1, 2018, 06:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Drump will be way worse than he is now and there will be more terrorism. Sure the House and/or the Senate will try to do a lot, but you have to remember the Supreme Court is against us now. The small vocal far right will protest and their message of fear along with Dumps and the republican party will reach enough politically stupid people that it will make it hard to win the Presidency for us. Even if we pass something that will help everyone they will be against it until it sinks in that it helped them, and by then they will be again in control of the message of fear. Look at the ACA for proof. The ACA was enacted in 2010!!! 8 years ago and now they like it but the credit they give us for it will be short lived. The repubs even now are trying to campaign off it!! The simple fact is that fascism/fear politics are on the rise in the world and it will take something large to change enough peoples minds. Should we be all doom and gloom? Should we give up? Naw,,,,,, I like this site for a lot of reasons, one is the second word in the site. I joined after it was really important, now I think its just as important as the first. Be the best you can be, do all you can, don't give up. Just realize the road in front of us is harder than you probably think and that is if we win the next two elections. If we loose? There will always be us in the Democratic Underground fighting the good fight every day, and that will be enough. Rock on.

Added the bold so people can stop posting that I am trying to depress the vote and being all doom and gloom. Just trying to be realistic, Dump and the repubs arent going to double down when/godihope we win, they are going to make doubling down look like nothing. Once again, be the best you can be, do all you can, dont give up. Do I need to bold that also?

[magicarpet]

1. Now, now,.. it will take some time but we will right this ship run a ground.

At least we will begin the process of containing him and getting his fat ass out of our White House

[Eko]

3. But he is not the problem.

He is the fuse that keeps blowing. Its a much larger thing than just him and has been for a while. Now the repubs have seen how to gain and hold power and they don't freaking care. Its absolutely going to get worse for a long time IMHO. Look at PBO and he is the devil to the repubs and for most of America they hardly know anything about him other than the repub lies, he was one of the best presidents we have had for a long time and it doesn't matter. Fear is everything now and will be for a long time. It would be nice if I was wrong, but Im really really sure I am not. Ive been optimistic my entire life, I still am. But I can see where this is going. The media runs off of fear and craziness for the most part, not their fault, its what sells and they have to make a living. The system is set for that now. We have to win what like 10 points above a repub to win a election, the system is set for that now. The supreme court is right leaning, the system is set for that now. The entire system is set for fear/fascism now.

[Hortensis]

65. Agree. The more power we get, the sooner we will

be able to put government of, by and for the people back on a stable and safe track.

[elocs]

2. Trump and his actions have scarred this nation for a generation...at least.

Plus, his tens of millions of followers and supporters will be going nowhere even if Democrats take Congress and the White House. They will still be here, fighting and clawing their way back, waiting for those on the Left to become complacent and not be vigilant in the battles ahead, and from past experience they have good reason to hope that.

[Grasswire2]

4. We can start turning around on day one.

Can you envision an America with tax rates as they were from the '50s to '70s when a family with one wage earner could own a house and two cars, send the kids to college, take vacations and save for retirement? When America could go to the moon and build an interstate highway system? When schools were great and teachers didn't have to spend their salary on supplies and snacks? When food stamps weren't necessary because wages were adequate?

That can be ours again, with a Democratic president and Congress.

We can erase Citizens United, and make great progress in every sector.

The problem will be the re-education of those who have been brainwashed. Perhaps if they were to see better circumstances, they would start to repudiate the propaganda.

[roamer65]

7. That America is gone.

We need to build one that simply is compassionate and takes care of its people. Single-payor will be a start.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

5. I think our country has fallen to the point it's beyond repair due to that tRumpster fire.

[LBM20]

8. Take an upper. We have lived through the Civil War (600,000 dead), Vietnam, Watergate...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

9. That fuckwad has destroyed the country WAY worse than those historical events...

We may never recover... though we got to fight and try, no doubt.

[LBM20]

10. Please, chill down. 620,000 dead in the Civil War. 59,000 dead in Vietnam. Go vote. Bring friends.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

24. lol, you should be the one chillin, not me...the Civil War dead will dwarfed by the MILLIONS

that will be killed due to the insane, despotic actions of that lunatic occupying the White House. That stupid fuck will get us ALL killed if this shit keeps up! It's time for people to WAKE THE FUCK UP!! First thing we do when the Democrats take over the House of Representatives is impeach the Orange Turd.

[bearsfootball516]

28. Saying this is worse than the Civil War is nothing less than absurdity.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

39. Geez... saying it has the very REAL possibility of being WAY worse...

We need to face reality, not ignore it.

[RHMerriman]

51. Hear, hear...

For God sake, in 1929, the unemployment rate was 24.9 percent. An estimated 418,500 Americans died during WW II because of the war, some 416,800 US military and the rest US civilians (Merchant mariners, US civilians at home or abroad because of eemy action, etc.)

As you point out, 360,222 US military personnel (best estimate) died between 1861-65, and the "early" loyal civilian deaths (outside of those expected in peacetime) during the Civil War years are in the tens of thousands, at least.

For the party that got the US through the Great Depression and WW II, there's a lot of missing perspective from some people on this board.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

67. There are things worse than death......

[LBM20]

6. OK STOP THE DOOMING AND GLOOMING. Winning the House largely SHUTS HIM DOWN!

[Grasswire2]

13. this

Baby steps.

IMO a major problem will be the undoing of the propaganda from the right.

Dems will have to provide a vision and a path of accomplishment pronto to hold the middle.

Pugs will no doubt make as much trouble as possible.

Congress will need our unflagging support.

[Eko]

16. Is it Doom and Gloom?

You think Muller is going to save us? You think the supreme court is going to side with us? You think Dump is going to calm down? The right will? Is there anything in history that would backs that up? Nope. Winning the house doesnt shut him down, you are playing by the old rules, those dont matter anymore. The house could pull his taxes and show how he was a crook, it wouldn't matter and it wont. The Senate wont care unless we win it and even if we do a large part of the country wont care at all. He controls the DOJ, they wont prosecute him. Some states might, but even that would do little because the Supreme Court will rule he cant be charged as President. Afterwards he might get his due, but the right wont care. It will be deep state crap to them and validate their beliefs. The old rules are gone. Period.

[LBM20]

19. If we win the House we can block a lot of what Trump and R's do, and we can INVESTIGATE. Chill down.

[Eko]

20. Sure, we can block it

and then they can send it to the supreme court, how do you think that will go? We can also investigate it but it falls on the DOJ to prosecute, once again how do you think that will go?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

25. *THIS*

[JustAnotherGen]

34. Taking our

Villages, Boroughs, Towns back - will.

Gillum winning will.

Tom Malinowski winning will.

Flash back to 2010 - The TEAS took our country hostage at the LOCAL LEVEL. It wasn't just Congress.

I won't be at DU fighting the good fight. Sorry - but nope!

I take my Committee position - elected by Democratics in my Borough very seriously.

Next Tuesday is the beginning.

Next Wednesday we start the hard work. Priorities -

Field two more Democratic candidates for council.
Ensure Zwicker and Freiman (Assembly NJ that represent me) maintain their seats.
Get a Democratic into the NJ Senate.
Get Gillum to bring Florida into the Popular Vote Movement.
https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state/fl

We are only 98 votes away from ensuring the next Democratic Candidate who gets 3 million more votes than The 45 - shoves that thing's worthless maggoty ass out of the White House.

Eyes on the prize.
Don't rest.
Don't retreat.
Don't surrender.

[JustAnotherGen]

35. PS agree on the old rules

Being gone.

Let's destroy them entirely and get the State governments in power THIS year to bring majority DOMINANCE to America.

[LanternWaste]

57. Yes. it is doom and gloom...

Yes. it is doom and gloom, as you have zero objective evidence to support any of the prophecies you've imagined. Period, ellipses or question mark...

[malaise]

32. +1,000

Geez

[Thekaspervote]

54. Agree! The gopeeee love when people doom and gloom causing despair.. please don't!

[dalton99a]

11. Perfection is the enemy of the good

Any victory is better than zero victory

GOTV!

[lancelyons]

12. It's not just trump it's the programmed right wing base

People just don't seem to understand. Trump is a product of the right wing media. Fox News, Rush Limburger etc. there are thousands of guys out there like trump.

[Eko]

17. Who is calling for perfection?

I am certainly not.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

40. No one... it just sounds good.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

22. Yup -biggest mistake Dems made was not addressing g media

Fairness doctrine should have been reinstated, shutting down the 24/7 free ad/disinformation network on talk radio

FOX should have been shunned as a political operation. Instead, Obama tried to play nice and did multiple sit downs with that creep O'Reilly. All this did was legitimize them.

Guys like Alex Jones should have been sued for libel. Public figures or not, Obama and Hillary had more than a case against him with the Pizzagate garbage he pushed.

And finally, liberal media should have been built up as a counter.Air America Played a big part in our 2006 victories. And contrary to popular belief, ratings were fine.it was the con artist investor who doomed the company, launching it from a hole it could never get out of.start a new liberal network on solid footing.
And get some progressive guys with money to do the same for TV. When MSBC had Olbermann, it made a huge difference.
The only left leaning channels outside the networks are kook operations with young Turks guys who push Bust idiocy. Start an actual pragmatic left leaning channel.
And make it at least watchable and entertaining. Far too many things like free speech tv are dry, boring and ratings poison.

[lancelyons]

38. For me, this is one of the first hings Dems need to begin working on

We need to fix what is broken today.

Fox News and the like need to be reigned in. I am not sure how you do that since we have the 1st amendment but the 1st amendment should not allow generalized states about people or groups of people like the evil left or even though its true ( the evil right).

News should be news.

We need to change the rules of our government. We should not have guidelines for a president like they cant be subpoenaed or cant be indicted. Or rules that allow a president to not submit tax returns or use his office to personally enrich themselves.

We have to add in rules to fix our democracy.

These fixes should be as high a priority as the economy and healthcare.

[onetexan]

31. There will always be idiots like the faux news huggers

This is a constant struggle we have to deal with. History is on our side, we can weather thru it. But looking at it woth a defeatist attitude isnt going to help. We GOTV and win our majority back to restore the normalcy of civility and America's position as the most powerful nation on earth and improve our way of life. And we need to do this for as long as we live. Evil doesnt stop. We cant be complacent as there are crazy Americans among us hellbent on subjecting us to their dangerous ideologies.

[rwheeler31]

14. We may be able to do a lot more than we think.

Remember He has no loyalty, and his aides will turn on him.

[RHMerriman]

52. Exactly - who the hell is going to die - physically or politically - for Donald J. Trump?

Exactly - Who the hell is going to die - physically or politically - for Donald J. Trump?

His own children will sell him out in a heartbeat to save themselves; does anyone think Steven Miller or Sarah Sanders is going to commit suicide in the bunker for Tiny Donny?

[es466]

15. Great observation OP. I had never before voted early... until last week.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

26. Me too.

[lunatica]

18. Well this crap didn't just suddenly happen in 2017

It’s been building for decades. We”re just going to have to take however long it takes. And even if it gets worse it will still be turned around at some point. It’s the nature of time. Everything cycles around.

[Butterflylady]

29. Your last sentence is the truest statement.

Everything cycles around. It started with Nixon and kept building ever since. Now it's coming to a head. The ship will right itself and those that brought this country to where it is right now will pay a dear price.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. Not if the country has been taken over they cliff by the Rethugs

and there's no coming back... just a question of when we hit the ground and explode.

[lunatica]

43. The fall of empires and nations has happened many times

If that happens then we’ll go the way of other nations. We’ll have to deal with it.

Let’s hope we have a say on our side.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

44. I think in this case, due to the Dotard, once we've fallen, we can't get up.

[lunatica]

45. Some of us won't get up, but most will

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

47. I hope so...never been this discouraged though given the irreperable damage that fuckwad has wrought

[0rganism]

21. we have to start somewhere, right?

there is a huge advantage we'd get from taking the house, and that's subpoena power for various oversight committees. in order to extract the tumor, it must first be exposed.

[obamanut2012]

23. THEN I GUESS WE SHOULD JUST GIVE UP AND NOT EVEN TRY

AND NOT EVEN GOTV

WOE IS ME

[Eko]

55. Pretty sure I said this in the op.

Be the best you can be, do all you can, don't give up. Just realize the road in front of us is harder than you probably think and that is if we win the next two elections. If we loose? There will always be us in the Democratic Underground fighting the good fight every day, and that will be enough. Rock on.

[beachbum bob]

27. this is the first step in retaking our country, if people don't care...well we have always had those

people in our mist..


many didn't support our revolution against the King
many didn't support fighting slavery
many didn't support fighting nazis and fascists


luckily for them, the rest of did care and did the battles so they could reap the benefit they were so unwilling to fight for

[samnsara]

30. im not so sure....hes only a third of the power and im sure the SCOTUS

..will not buy into kavs bat shit crazy stuff...and last I heard Roberts had an ethics investigation against him? hes NOT their pal. And who is to say trump wont switch teams? hes TOFU and goes with the prevailing flavor. He will try to do shit that makes the dems happy. He takes his praise where he can get it. He has NO allegiance to the deplorables except their loud cheers and applause. He can get that anywhere if he plays his cards right.

[mtnsnake]

33. If we win the House and/or the Senate, we will be in a better country immediately

Maybe not cured, but improved greatly and possibly on the road to some sort of recovery.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

48. To do what? All we can do is try to avoid even worse damage to this country.

But yes, we have to try to also reverse the damage, though it seems like a Herculean task... but, what other choice do we have?

[handmade34]

36. we will be better off

if we win back the House and certainly if we win back the Senate... and we must remember that it is called "Checks and Balances" for a reason... Congress has the power to "check" the Supreme Court (if it has the will)

[Downtown Hound]

37. It will still have many problems

But it will most definitely be better than it is today.

[UTUSN]

42. So you prefer loosing.

[Eko]

56. Didnt I say this?

Be the best you can be, do all you can, don't give up. Just realize the road in front of us is harder than you probably think and that is if we win the next two elections. If we loose? There will always be us in the Democratic Underground fighting the good fight every day, and that will be enough. Rock on.

[Blue_true]

46. Our representatives WOULD be in a stronger position to stop him.

But face it, we need to steel ourselves for getting rid of him in 2020. We can't let internal differences deter us from that needed outcome.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

49. No doubt, we have to rally around a candidate who can unite our party and the country.

[Iggo]

50. Actually yeah, we will be.

Baby steps, babe.

[wasupaloopa]

53. Trump is not the country. He is temporary.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

58. There's no way he's going to sign Democratic legislation that will make things "better"

We need a new President with a strong Democratic majority to start to fix things in 2021. The objective for now needs to be staunching the bleeding and blocking more radical legislation and holding Trump accountable like the Republicans should have been doing but obviously have repeatedly failed to do.

[Charlotte Little]

59. Well that's it

I'm not voting. I'm just going to give up and accept the fate that befalls America.

Everybody, it's over. Let's all just stay home.

No more resisting. No more political activism.

Just accept the inevitable.




Dumbest thread of the day. For God's sake, man the hell up!

[Eko]

61. Did you miss this part?

"Be the best you can be, do all you can, don't give up. Just realize the road in front of us is harder than you probably think and that is if we win the next two elections."
Apparently.

[Charlotte Little]

62. I couldn't get past the rest of it.

Maybe next time, lead with that. And bold it before someone calls you out on the doom and gloom.

Also:

Link to tweet

David shows us all how to do it.

P.S. Go to Twitter to read the whole thread. I don't know how to post it here.

[Eko]

63. No

Read the whole thing before you criticize someone for something they didn't do.
Good day.

[Charlotte Little]

64. Boy

You sure are awfully full of yourself.

Gee, your majesty. How about I only read threads where members don't write eulogies and then demand that us peasants read it all the way through and take comfort from a few uplifting words of woo:

I'll get right on that.

[Eko]

66. You could start with not

using strawman multiple times against me. That would help quite a bit.

edited to make sure my point was not missed.

[Charlotte Little]

68. Stawman?

Please.

I'm not refuting any argument. I read three lines of your OP and quite reading - and then gave my opinion.

I get it. You don't like that. Well, guess what? I am not alone in my assertion.

This is what you came out of the gate with:

"Drump will be way worse than he is now and there will be more terrorism. Sure the House and/or the Senate will try to do a lot, but you have to remember the Supreme Court is against us now. The small vocal far right will protest and their message of fear along with Dumps and the republican party will reach enough politically stupid people that it will make it hard to win the Presidency for us. Even if we pass something that will help everyone they will be against it until it sinks in that it helped them, and by then they will be again in control of the message of fear. Look at the ACA for proof. The ACA was enacted in 2010!!! 8 years ago and now they like it but the credit they give us for it will be short lived. The repubs even now are trying to campaign off it!!"

And don't get me started on your thread title.

No Strawman from me, sir, just honest feedback.

Peoples' nerves are frayed. Mine sure are. And I can be the biggest Debbie Downer on here, in case you've not seen my posts.

But I've cut it out. Why? Because folks are sick of it.

Again. Go read David's thread on Twitter. He can show you how to do it.

[Eko]

69. You didnt? Oh my apologies.

You didn't say that I wrote "eulogies and then demand that us peasants read it all the way through and take comfort from a few uplifting words of woo:"
I didn't write an eulogy, I didn't demand that anyone read it all the way through and I didn't say anyone should take comfort from anything I said.
I said exactly "Read the whole thing before you criticize someone for something they didn't do."
So, yeah, Strawman.
In case you need it.
Strawman : an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

[Charlotte Little]

72. That's not a Strawman Argument

That's sarcasm.

And actually, going by your assessment, you're the one with the Strawman argument.

I DIDN'T READ YOUR ENTIRE OP BECAUSE THE FIRST HALF OF IT WAS DOOM & GLOOM.

Got it?

YOU THEN TOLD ME TO READ IT ALL AS IF THE TITLE AND FIRST HALF DIDN'T MATTER BECAUSE YOU RALLY THE TROOPS NEAR THE END.

Got it?

It's not my job to get your point. It's your job to make it coherent enough to get. You didn't do a good job of it, in my ever humble opinion.

No man, staw or otherwise. Just my opinion that you are really really bad at this.

[Eko]

73. More strawman.

I never said the title and first half didn't matter because I rally the troops near the end.
Got it?
If you are too lazy to read past the first part then maybe you should be lazy enough not to comment.

[Charlotte Little]

75. No Strawman

You are so off base, yet again.

It was my opinion based on what I originally read of your OP (roughly, the first half of the paragraph) without reading your full post, because your post was so negative and fatuous, I stopped reading it - which I've admitted without hesitation. (By the way, you're entitled to your opinion that I must be lazy. See? Not hard to do.)

It is not a Strawman argument for me to admit I didn't read your full OP. Your OP starts off with several sentences of negative musing under the title "Even if we win the house...etc." Those are facts. What is my opinion is that I don't HAVE to read your whole OP. You instructed me that I should have before criticizing it, to which I gave you another very sarcastic opinion (your majesty). And I'm allowed my opinions and my sarcasm. But just because you don't like it, doesn't make it a Strawman argument.

I didn't pretend there was a flaw in your original OP or try to distort it. Your OP just sucked in my opinion. I found it to be negative and doom and gloom based on how you presented it, so I stopped reading it and gave an opinion in a very sarcastic way. BUT NONE OF WHAT I'VE OPINED ABOUT HAS BEEN A STRAWMAN ARGUMENT.

Don't like my opinion, then put me on ignore but that will not stop me from giving it. Which, let's face it, that is really what this is all about.

Toodles

[Eko]

74. I would

hate to hear your book reviews. I imagine it would be something like this "I read the first chapter, book sucked".

[MarcA]

80. Good Advice.

Don't hold your breath.

[LBM20]

60. This again? Seriously? Enough already.

[MarcA]

79. It's Way past "enough already". n/t

[Separation]

70. You are correct, dont back down from your statement!

Until this country has a frank discussion with itself and how to deal with systemic institutional racism, we will not be in a better country. People will forget how mad they got, but the Republicans won't. They will just put this setback into their playbook and come back with another message. Make no mistake, Republicans and their list of policies are racist, homophobic, & misogynistic. It's just when George Bush did it, he did it with a smile and people called him a Compassionate Conservative.

[Eko]

71. Thanks!

[Algernon Moncrieff]

76. Any journey begins with a first step

[Garrett78]

77. Legalizing same-sex marriage didn't immediately change attitudes.

But that decision did make the country better. And, assuming that decision doesn't get overturned, the legalization of same-sex marriage will - over time - be the accepted norm.

Democrats taking control of the House won't change Trump's base. However, it would mean Democrats can investigate the hell out of Trump and his minions. It would mean Republican bills will have a much tougher time passing. It would mean information can come to light that will - over time - be accepted as historical fact.

[Hassler]

78. Yeah, don't bother voting if we can't change everything right now.

The GOP has been working to this point for 50 years! Imagine if we had the same tenacity.