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Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:08 AM

 

So, let me get this straight, DU

Just this morning, we have threads calling for Nancy Pelosi to be replaced, even though she just led an historic Democratic takeover of the House and for our 2020 nominee not to be a woman or person of color supposedly because of the Electoral College (even though a woman and a black man won the popular vote in the last three elections and the black man won both the popular vote AND Electoral College TWICE).

Am I in the right place?

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Reply So, let me get this straight, DU (Original post)
EffieBlack Nov 2018 OP
Maeve Nov 2018 #1
olegramps Nov 2018 #28
Me. Nov 2018 #77
Bettie Nov 2018 #2
GWC58 Nov 2018 #4
Bettie Nov 2018 #14
GWC58 Nov 2018 #16
WinstonSmith4740 Nov 2018 #68
GWC58 Nov 2018 #94
democratisphere Nov 2018 #57
calimary Nov 2018 #78
still_one Nov 2018 #128
BadgerMom Nov 2018 #60
In It to Win It Nov 2018 #74
Baitball Blogger Nov 2018 #3
NightWatcher Nov 2018 #5
bdamomma Nov 2018 #6
WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2018 #7
Heartstrings Nov 2018 #41
marylandblue Nov 2018 #8
HipChick Nov 2018 #10
marylandblue Nov 2018 #11
Sunsky Nov 2018 #12
marylandblue Nov 2018 #13
Sunsky Nov 2018 #19
marylandblue Nov 2018 #32
Sunsky Nov 2018 #42
marylandblue Nov 2018 #98
Sunsky Nov 2018 #105
marylandblue Nov 2018 #121
Sunsky Nov 2018 #123
marylandblue Nov 2018 #124
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #106
marylandblue Nov 2018 #117
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #118
marylandblue Nov 2018 #119
marylandblue Nov 2018 #120
better Nov 2018 #49
brush Nov 2018 #64
Sunsky Nov 2018 #71
czarjak Nov 2018 #73
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #30
marylandblue Nov 2018 #38
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #44
better Nov 2018 #55
Hortensis Nov 2018 #80
marylandblue Nov 2018 #97
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #100
marylandblue Nov 2018 #101
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #103
dsp3000 Nov 2018 #130
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #131
dsp3000 Nov 2018 #132
thinkingagain Nov 2018 #9
Adrahil Nov 2018 #15
workinclasszero Nov 2018 #22
Adrahil Nov 2018 #25
progressoid Nov 2018 #27
workinclasszero Nov 2018 #29
Cha Nov 2018 #114
workinclasszero Nov 2018 #115
Power 2 the People Nov 2018 #107
violetpastille Nov 2018 #43
seta1950 Nov 2018 #45
Me. Nov 2018 #79
InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2018 #104
Celerity Nov 2018 #116
FakeNoose Nov 2018 #24
workinclasszero Nov 2018 #31
Adrahil Nov 2018 #36
uponit7771 Nov 2018 #48
ehrnst Nov 2018 #61
Fatemah2774 Nov 2018 #70
ehrnst Nov 2018 #81
ProfessorGAC Nov 2018 #17
Aristus Nov 2018 #18
Pisces Nov 2018 #76
workinclasszero Nov 2018 #20
safeinOhio Nov 2018 #21
flibbitygiblets Nov 2018 #26
Mariana Nov 2018 #134
flibbitygiblets Nov 2018 #23
deurbano Nov 2018 #35
Amimnoch Nov 2018 #33
karin_sj Nov 2018 #34
mcar Nov 2018 #37
progressoid Nov 2018 #39
Shipwack Nov 2018 #52
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #86
Shipwack Nov 2018 #99
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #102
seta1950 Nov 2018 #40
catbyte Nov 2018 #50
NurseJackie Nov 2018 #46
uponit7771 Nov 2018 #47
Shipwack Nov 2018 #51
MontanaMama Nov 2018 #53
grantcart Nov 2018 #54
Scruffy1 Nov 2018 #56
dlk Nov 2018 #58
workinclasszero Nov 2018 #63
ehrnst Nov 2018 #59
LakeArenal Nov 2018 #62
Hermit-The-Prog Nov 2018 #65
Renew Deal Nov 2018 #66
BeyondGeography Nov 2018 #83
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #87
BeyondGeography Nov 2018 #92
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #93
davsand Nov 2018 #67
Pepsidog Nov 2018 #72
vi5 Nov 2018 #69
Pisces Nov 2018 #75
zipplewrath Nov 2018 #82
progressoid Nov 2018 #85
EffieBlack Nov 2018 #88
ehrnst Nov 2018 #89
Pisces Nov 2018 #90
Wintryjade Nov 2018 #84
PatSeg Nov 2018 #91
obamanut2012 Nov 2018 #95
Pacifist Patriot Nov 2018 #96
dweller Nov 2018 #110
dweller Nov 2018 #113
DonCoquixote Nov 2018 #108
Gothmog Nov 2018 #109
JHan Nov 2018 #111
Raine Nov 2018 #112
aikoaiko Nov 2018 #122
oasis Nov 2018 #125
Lotusflower70 Nov 2018 #126
dawg day Nov 2018 #127
still_one Nov 2018 #129
Generic Brad Nov 2018 #133

Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:10 AM

1. You are, dear

But some of the other posters? Not so much

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Response to Maeve (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:07 AM

28. It seems to me that some Democrats are buying the Republican's propaganda.

It is a fact that the Republicans despise her. That fact makes me believe that she must be doing a great job and it would be rather dumb to join in calling for her resignation. I do believe that the party should be looking toward younger people who will have to be given more responsibility as the older members retire. One of the reasons, at the time I was a registered Independent, that I voted for Kennedy was his relative youth. I was on my way to Washington for an interview when he was assassinated. It was a major blow to me and I soon left Washington.

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Response to olegramps (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:32 PM

77. Buying & ReSelling

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:13 AM

2. Hasn't she said she's ready to hand it off at some point?

She's great at getting her caucus in line. We need that right now.

I've reached a point where anything that pisses the right wing off is my favorite thing.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:30 AM

4. Agreed. Nancy should, no doubt, be the next

Speaker of the House. She knows how to keep her caucus in order. We know this because Nancy has done it before.

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Response to GWC58 (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:35 AM

14. I will however, say

that I hope she is mentoring/training someone to take over after she steps down.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:39 AM

16. I can get with that.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:59 AM

68. That was my thought, too.

We certainly need her expertise, and every ounce of her experience. But the time is coming close when she really needs to be ready to pass that torch. From what I understand, Millennials turned out big time in this election. If we want to keep them, which we need to do, we have to be ready to hand over power. She will be the perfect mentor/teacher because in my 70 years on this planet, she's the best damn Speaker we've ever had.

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Response to WinstonSmith4740 (Reply #68)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:21 PM

94. Yes sir,

Nancy certainly was the very best Speaker of this 60 y/o’s lifetime!

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Response to GWC58 (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:39 AM

57. THAT and potentially the first woman POTUS!

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Response to GWC58 (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:35 PM

78. I've heard it described as "herding cats." And she's THE BEST at it.

She never got blindsided like John Boehner did, who had his shorts handed to him on regular intervals when he'd put a bill on the floor for the vote, assuming it'd pass, and it wouldn't. She was NEVER fooled. And that's what we Dems need. Because we can scatter to the four winds at a moment's notice, hellbent on seeking The Perfect when The Merely Good often proves to be MORE THAN Good Enough.

It made me very happy to hear - I think it was on MSNBC a little earlier this morning - that the Affordable Care Act wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for Nancy Pelosi - who was still Speaker of the House during President Obama's first years in the White House. She played a HUGE role in his ability to get it done. It would NOT have happened without her deft leadership in Congress, and her iron hand inside the proverbial velvet glove.

So some of those on our side may sneer at her and think she's too old. Well, so be it. I think she recognizes that VERY clearly. She's not dumb, you know. But we need her, and we need her shrewdness and skillful management. And we need that RIGHT NOW and in the grueling days ahead.

You know that old saying - "You dance with the one that brung ya."

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Response to GWC58 (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:36 AM

128. She will be. She has also said that she will be working with others to groom them into House

leadership roles, suggesting that this may be her last term, and she may be getting to retire.

At this critical time we need her, and her experience. The next two years are critical.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:42 AM

60. We do need that right now.

And as far as handing it off in the future, yes. Let her groom someone the next few sessions. There should be younger faces in leadership. But Pelosi should remain now. We need experience, effectiveness, know-how and ferocity. That’s Pelosi.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:18 PM

74. She absolutely is and that is why we need her in this critical moment

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:25 AM

3. I think she has earned the right to transition, and in fact, it makes sense

that she should be there to make sure there is a legislative oversight of Trump's behavior. If she knows her time is short, she has no reason to hold back. No reason to cut deals.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:33 AM

5. Why fight the criminal on chief when we can argue amongst ourselves?

trump will beat us in 2020 then we'll get his kid in 2024 and 28

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:35 AM

6. We always

manage to shoot ourselves in the foot huh? Let things settle huh? the Repigs will love this in fighting regarding who's going to replace Ms. Pelosi.

We have other things to worry about now, esp. firing of attorney general and putting a trump loyalist in that is rather sickening.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:38 AM

7. It's unsurprising when we lose, but especially dismaying when we've won.

And won with women, particularly WOC, leading the way.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:22 AM

41. +1000.....

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 09:42 AM

8. Pelosi should stay, the black man scared whites by his competence

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:11 AM - Edit history (1)

That helped take down a highly competent woman. They could not allow him, or hwr to succeed. The country is now more racially divided today than we could have imagined in 2008. That's a dangerous thing.to mess with. And it sucks.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:05 AM

10. Putin and the Orange blob

took her down
This country was always racist

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Response to HipChick (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:07 AM

11. Yes, always racist, but things were improving for a while

We underestimated how much work there was left to do, how easily racial tensions can be reignited.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:24 AM

12. Divide and conquer is their motto

and It seems as if we have now been conquered.

"The black man accidently caused a backlash that helped take down a highly competent woman" Am I reading this right? So the take down of Hillary was Obama's fault? What else is the black man to be blamed for? This is complete bullshit. Hillary's emails dominated the news cycle in 2016, was the black man to be blamed for that as well?

If Democrats continue to buy into these racist fearmongers and fight with each other, we will not win elections. Alienating minorities will not win us elections! Rise up and fight racism instead of giving into it.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:34 AM

13. You misunderstood my post, and I will not fight with you on it

It's not Obama's "fault" nor is it Clinton's. But something terrible is happening in this country and we need to recognize it for what it is. It is worse and more ugly than you think.

And difficult to talk about too, unless we listen to each other and don't take offense too easily.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:49 AM

19. Nah, it can never be more worst and ugly than I think

It's my reality. I live it. My ancestors lived it. My kids and their kids will live it too, unless we continue to fight for change instead to succumbing to racists. Racial division/ tension is nothing new.
You thought racism didn't exist this much in 2008?
Also, your post clearly seems to place some blame at Obama's feet for Hillary's loss and that is offensive.
As Jacob Miller said, Forward ever, backward never.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:13 AM

32. Not blaming them, I changed my header

He scared the racists by his competence. Tanihisi Coates wrote about this, and I think he is right.

I'll respond further to you later.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #32)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:24 AM

42. Ok, how it was phrased before gave a totally different vibe

Now can I agree with that sentiment.
We should continue to scare the heck out of them, instead of retreating. Racism won't be destroyed overnight but we have to fight to break it down brick by brick.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:26 PM

98. Yes we have to fight racism, but now we have to fight authoritarianism too.

If we lose the fight against authoritarianism, there won't be anyway to address racism.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #98)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:46 PM

105. Yup

My people don't have that luxury to choose which is greater or lesser. It's an equal fight for our lives.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #105)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 09:39 AM

121. Picking your battles is a necessity not a luxury

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #121)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:10 AM

123. -Says the privileged.

Black people cannot choose between racism and authoritarianism. We do not have that choice. We have to fight both equally.
Sometimes we need to be more sensitive to the plight of ourselves and try to put ourselves in their shoes. I now see that my first assessment of the post was correct. This topic has taken up way too much of my time, I'm done with it.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #123)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:15 AM

124. Well I do have a question, if you choose to return

Because I am here to learn not to fight with you. Don't you think authoritarianism is different from racism? If they are different, how do you fight both at the same time? If they are the same, why do you think we have not had such an authoritarian president until now?

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #98)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:47 PM

106. Bullshit

 

If you cater to racism with the excuse that it's necessary to get to a position to fight racism, you're engaging in the very racism that you claim to abhor and YOU become a significant part of the problem.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #106)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 08:58 AM

117. I don't think we can't run a black or a woman

I just think it makes it harder for then to win against Trump, and only against Trump. Against someone else.it wouldn't matter.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #117)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 09:27 AM

118. I think you're being very myopic

 

A minority or female candidate may have a harder time getting the support of the beloved "white working class," but that's not the only group of voters out there. Black, brown and female candidates are likely to draw out black, brown and (not-racist, mysoginist) female voters - not to mention other clear-thinking people - in numbers that would swamp any backward minded folk who are "uncomfortable" voting for anyone other than a white man.

When people stop assuming that a certain segment of white voters are THE target and everyone else are just satellites whose votes are useful only as supplements to white voters, we'll do a lot better in building and expanding the base we need for electoral success.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #118)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 09:31 AM

119. You do have a point there, I still think that job is harder, but

The only person who I actually think is capable of drawing those people out in this environment is Cory Booker, so I'm still considering him.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #106)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 09:33 AM

120. I don't think people become "part of the problem" for opinions

that other people don't agree with.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:28 AM

49. Respectfully, you are mistaking what you clearly perceive for what marylandblue clearly conveys.

President Obama, God bless him, did cause a backlash, though only by not being 100% white.
That in NO way, obviously, means that the take down of Secretary Clinton was his fault.
Only that backlash to him played a part.

You are right that we need to not fight with each other, and to that end, I suggest that we try a bit harder, especially among our allies, to hear what we are actually trying to say, through the noise of not having yet mastered how to say it perfectly.

There is a reality here with which we all must grapple, that racism is alive and well, and that black leaders do create a backlash that is entirely unjustified by their actual actions, and that the more effective, admirable, and successful those black leaders are at moving us in the right direction, the stronger that backlash is. Clearly, that is the fault of white racists, not truly remarkable black leaders like President Obama.

The bottom line is, I think MarylandBlue was actually trying to say:

"The backlash to the black man was greater than we anticipated, resulting in Secretary Clinton's competence not being enough to ensure her victory."

Let's focus on helping our allies learn to word their actual messages more appropriately.

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Response to better (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:54 AM

64. Misogyny played a huge part in 2016. Let's also not forget Putin...

repug cheating and comey.

A backlash against Pres. Obama is just a convenient excuse. We all know what happened by now.

Hillary actually won. Let's not re-write history.

The election was stolen.

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Response to better (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:14 PM

71. Respectfully, I disagree

It seems as if racial sensitivity lessons need to be given here on DU.
The black man won both of his elections (popular and electoral college) in 2008 and 2012 despite the racial divide. In this society Black men and women are too often made to shoulder the blame when things go wrong.
If the 2016 election was fairly run, Hillary would have been our president. She lost the electoral college because of the Russian influence campaign.
The poster actually cleared up what he/she was trying to say. Thanks.

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Response to Sunsky (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:17 PM

73. "Racism's dead"...

Remember?

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:09 AM

30. "The black man" didn't "cause" anything

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #30)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:16 AM

38. Changed my header, really they were afraid of him.

Minorities or women in charge frighten some people, unfortunately.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:25 AM

44. So we shouldn't put them in charge because white people?

 

No. The way to deal with them at is to put them in charge and let white people learn to get used to it.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:34 AM

55. Quite the contrary, we should put them in charge despite, or perhaps even BECAUSE white people.

(And mind you, I'm a white people.)

It's just that we need to be more clear-eyed about the resistance and backlash we can reasonably expect to encounter, and be better prepared to overcome it. I think we did underestimate, especially within the segment of the white community that is on our side, just how extensive the problem still is, and how much further we still have to go.

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Response to better (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:41 PM

80. Let's hope a DECADE of resistance and backlash may have peaked.

Since 2008 many nonwhites suffered that backlash in thousands of different ways around the nation, countless small atrocities to some truly dreadful, and only a few of the latter made the news with a body lying in the street or a release after unjust years in prison.

Although we are still the nation who happily and proudly elected our first black president by a good margin. This happened years before many expected, and we've been shocked and battered as a nation by the depth and fury of the backlash.

But Tuesday's elections contradict that darkness. The women's, suburban, and increased youth vote are rejecting what the Republican Party has become. It seems likely that this may in retrospect mark, not a return to what we all believed was normal before, but that as a nation we have adjusted and are arriving in a new, better place.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #44)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:23 PM

97. My fear is they will get scared and turn violent

Very violent and we will end up with a right wing authoritarian regime. We are already moving that way. Because they are scared and being further inflamed. They won't get used to it. They will start shooting. And they already have.

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #97)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:38 PM

100. So, we hide our women and black folk because we think they'll trigger violence in white people?

 

No.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #100)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:40 PM

101. Not hide, just run the best person who can win.

And why are you so unconcerned about violence? If we have massive civil unrest, while the police do nothing to stop it, what do you propose to do about it?

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Response to marylandblue (Reply #101)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:45 PM

103. Why do you assume a woman or minority is not "the best person who can win"?

 

You sound like the "I'm not racist BUT I can't hire a black person because my customers might not like it" liberal.

And spare me the "don't you care that violence will result" bushit. I'm not buying so please peddle that crap to someone else.

And while you're doing that, I suggest you read Dr. King's ""Letter From a Birmingham Jail."

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #30)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:41 AM

130. Yes, he caused a backlash of racism because he was too good.

Not his fault. our country is still racist. I say this as a person of color. We need a white man to run in 2020, preferably young (Beto?!).

Pelosi is fine for now, but the D's better be grooming someone to replace her ASAP. Unfortunately like Hillary, she's a lightning rod for the right to galvanize against.

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Response to dsp3000 (Reply #130)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:54 AM

131. Hillary and Nancy are lightning rods, but the right will welcome Beto with open arms

 

Okaay ...

Welcome to DU, my "brother" or "sister." I hope you enjoy your stay ...

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #131)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 09:35 PM

132. Thanks

Thanks for the welcome. I am always very excited about minorities running for public office. Really hoping that andy kim pulls through and wins his seat in NJ where I work, and against any other president I don't think it would matter. but with the type of deplorables and that come out to vote for this A-hole, and with the rhetoric that he will use, the safest bet to take back the WH is to run a a white dude . That's just my honest 2 cents, but if I was a political strategist, that's the route i would go.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:02 AM

9. I like Nancy

I think she should be kept as speaker.
Some cultures respect the wisdom of age and experience.
She has been helpful in the fight against the Evil ones (t & gop)
I say Go Nancy make a team of some of the other hard hitters along with support from the new blue house and scoop out the poop.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:38 AM

15. I am not AGAINST Pelosi, per se...

 

In fact, I think she is pretty effective. But she is also a hate magnet. I think she should remain speaker for most of the term, and then pass the gavel to newer leadership.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:58 AM

22. ANY effective democratic leader will be a hate magnet for the GOP!

 

As a matter of fact, if you are not a "hate magnet" for the fascist GOP, you are majorly Fing up IMO.


FDR gave a speech where he said the republicans hated him and he welcomed their hatred!

If the GOP doesn't hate you, somethings rotten in Denmark...IMO.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:04 AM

25. I don't disagree, but....

 

1) No reason to give our opponents a ready-made villain that all their ranks already now. I discounted the pathological Hillary Hate in 2016... won;t make that mistake again.

2) We need to cultivate young leadership. Our House leadership is all pretty old. We need to get some young-uns in there, while the old guard is still there to guide them and help them.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:06 AM

27. +1

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:09 AM

29. Hey I'm all for younger folks getting into leadership roles

 

But damn, do something to earn it.

To just throw out effective leaders that have fought and won many battles with the enemy and earned their hate smacks of ageism to me.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 03:33 AM

114. Thanks, working! We're on the same

page!

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Response to Cha (Reply #114)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 03:51 AM

115. Well it all comes down to an intelligent strong woman

 

that wasn’t born yesterday.

For some stupid reason that scares some people to death Cha.

Even some democrats. SMH

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 12:01 AM

107. +1

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:24 AM

43. +1 Exactly! Our job is not to be loved by Republicans.

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:25 AM

45. Exactly

They’re going to hate any Democrat who’s effective

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:35 PM

79. Right & Giving INto Their Hate Means

They win!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:46 PM

104. Couldn't agree more... besides, who cares what the Rethugs think!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #22)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 03:54 AM

116. FDR's speech you are referring to wasn't directed at just Republicans, it was far more broad

in scope. Many conservative Democrats were anti-New Deal as well, and they aligned with the oligarchic wing of the Republicans to try and stop FDR's social democratic agenda.

The parties have obviously went through a myriad number of both small and large realignments since then, but similar (in terms of economic intent) forces ironically reunited in the late 1990's to dismantle the absolute heart of the New Deal's financial protections.

A bi-partisan group disastrously pushed through the repeal of Glass-Steagall in 1999 with the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act, and then truly opened up the gambling casino that is big bank and hedge fund-dominated Wall Street with the bi-partisan Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000, which re-legalised OTC derivatives trading amongst other things. Those two pieces of legislation were direct causational cornerstones for the series of events that led up to and caused the financial crisis of 2007-9.


Here is the excerpt from FDR's speech:

"the old enemies of peace: business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering." He went on to claim that these forces were united against his candidacy; that "They are unanimous in their hate for me — and I welcome their hatred."

U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, NYC, on October 31, 1936

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:03 AM

24. The "hate magnet" is the invention of the right-wingers

They would be doing the same for any Dem leader, male or female, white or black. Don't be fooled by their hatred, we have our own priorities. Nancy Pelosi is a smart, strong leader and we need her.





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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:10 AM

31. +100

 

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Response to FakeNoose (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:15 AM

36. Yes, of course it is.

 

Why would it be anything else? But I don't think her talents are unique in the party. We have smart, capable people who cab be strong leaders.

In the end, it's not about her.

Having said that, I think she ought to take the gavel an get the caucus organized.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:27 AM

48. Come on, anyone would be a hate magnet

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #15)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:42 AM

61. So was Obama, when you think about it. (nt)

 

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Response to ehrnst (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:13 PM

70. Be a hate magnet?!?

Any progressive, Democrat, critical thinking person, any individual who stands against racism, misogyny, hatred, and fear, any person who wishes our country to become a more perfect union and be inclusive of all of us are hate magnets

And as someone earlier in this discussion thread stated in a quote by FDR:

I welcome their hatred!

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Response to Fatemah2774 (Reply #70)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:09 PM

81. That's my point about Pelosi. (nt)

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:42 AM

17. She's Considering Stepping Down

She should be speaker, and when and if she chooses to step down, she should have the most say in who takes the role.

In the meantime, she'll do a fine job.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:44 AM

18. It's the orthodoxy trolls, again, EffieBlack.

Nancy Pelosi doesn't do 100% of the things they think she should do, so she's a DINO, or weak, or some other thing they can castigate her for that they wouldn't do to a white male Democrat.

We've all seen what rabid political orthodoxy does to us in the elections.

So, if possible, ignore it. I support Nancy Pelosi proudly, and will do so until the end of her political career.

If the concern trolls don't like that, they can bite me.

DU forever!

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Response to Aristus (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:30 PM

76. I just posted downthread. Ayanna Pressley, Alexandria Cortez are Dem women not backing Pelosi right

Now. Maybe they will in the end, but they refuse to say they back her now. Both women of color newly elected to the House. Discussing this is not heresy and doesn't make us less Dem. Young people want change and from what I heard of Nancy yesterday I can understand why. Nothing inspiring or moving. Sounded like more of the same. Don's shoot the messenger. Maybe we should pay attention to what some of these young freshmen House members are saying or not saying.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:53 AM

20. It's crazy isn't it?

 

Nancy Pelosi is a proven leader, that gets things done for the American people.

The GOP demonize her for that fact.

It is disheartening to to say the least, to come to a democratic board like DU and read GOP talking points against one of the best democratic leaders we have.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 10:58 AM

21. Imagine if you will....

trump and pence are impeached..

That means Nancy would our first woman President and as much as trump was elected just to piss off Liberals...Well Karma.

Speaker of the House is third inline for President.



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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #21)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:05 AM

26. Technical point, they'd have to both be impeached simultaneously; otherwise whoever wasn't impeached

would succeed (Pence would become POTUS and name a new VP)
or in a more unlikely scenario, Pence would be impeached first and Rump would name a new VP

My point is the likelihood of any Speaker becoming POTUS would is very small unless both POTUS and VPOTUS are impeached (or die/become incapacitated) simultaneously.

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #26)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:05 PM

134. You can bet Pence already has someone lined up to take the VP spot.

Pence knows there's a decent chance he will be President even if there's no impeachment. Donnie's been looking mighty unhealthy.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

23. What pisses me off is all the people who want her out because the R's have demonized her

Guess what? They demonize everybody. They'd love nothing more than us to replace her, that's why they demonize her. She's literally the only person I can think of who's qualified for this job. This is NOT the time for rookies to step in.

Oh, and someone mentioned earlier that Obamacare should be called Pelosicare, and much as I love me some Obama, I agree. She deserves credit for getting the ACA passed. The American public does not want it repealed, which is why we should be crying from the rooftops all of the good things Nancy has done for this country, including passage of the ACA, aka Obamacare, aka Pelosicare.

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Response to flibbitygiblets (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:15 AM

35. Exactly. They completely demonize the most EFFECTIVE ones.

And if the effective person is of color and/or a woman, they exploit that, too, with the rabid dogs that are their base.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:14 AM

33. I trust Nancy Pelosi and our Democratic Party Leadership to do what's best..

 

Best for the United States, best for the Democratic Party, and best for the People.

If that means her being Speaker again, they'll do it.
If it means someone else stepping up to the role, they'll do it.


There is a lot for them to consider. She's an incredibly capable speaker, she energizes our base. She also energizes their base against us. There's elections, and campaign promises made to prove both of those statements. So, I will trust my party, and my party's leadership to make the decision that best works for us going forward.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:15 AM

34. Nancy needs to stay!

She's experienced, savvy, and smart. That's why the rebukes are always demonizing her. We don't need someone new at the helm right now. I felt the exact same way when people (including right here on DU) were calling for the ouster of my Senator (Diane Feinstein) and even the California Democratic Party endorsed her opponent in this election, which really pissed me off. Thank goodness she won anyway.

We need EXPERIENCED Democrats in senior positions in government now. Yes, we need new blood too and we got a lot of fresh, new, wonderful Democrats in this election. Pelosi and Feinstein and others like them who are effective and experienced in the ways of dealing with Republicans (and all the BS that that entails) will eventually step down and others will take their places, but here and now, we need them and it seems to me like they are up to the task.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:16 AM

37. You are in the right place

others, apparently, are not.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:16 AM

39. "she just led an historic Democratic takeover of the House"?

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Response to progressoid (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:30 AM

52. +1000. What exactly did she do? nt

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Response to Shipwack (Reply #52)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:47 PM

86. LOL

 

If Dems had lost, it would have been her fault. But we won, so now it's "Nancy who? Oh - you mean the lady who got the coffee? No, don't know her."

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #86)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:37 PM

99. I am unaware that she even got coffee...

Did she recruit any of the candidates?

Did she fund raise for them?

Did she hold strategy sessions with them?

Did she do anything?

I'm actually honestly asking... I am unaware of any action she took to help anyone win. If you know differently, enlighten me.

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Response to Shipwack (Reply #99)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:41 PM

102. Yes

 

Nancy Pelosi raises money for candidates and the party like nobody's business. And she's one of the party's chief strategists and unofficial domo of the DCCC, which drives all of the Congressional races.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:20 AM

40. No

If Nancy Pelosi is pushed out of being the speaker, then Democrats are playing into the gop hand. Shame on them she should be the speaker, what is this ‘she’s too old ‘ drivel anyway,they never say that about men.

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Response to seta1950 (Reply #40)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:28 AM

50. No kidding. Bernie Sanders will be pushing 80 in 2020 & folks are begging him to run.

I call bullshit. Statistically, women live longer anyway. Sheesh.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:26 AM

46. I stand with Nancy Pelosi! (Fuck the Pelosi-haters!)

we have threads calling for Nancy Pelosi to be replaced
I stand with Nancy Pelosi! (Fuck the Pelosi-haters!)

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:26 AM

47. Their cover is blown and we recognize them now, their push's don't work like they used to

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:29 AM

51. OK, I'll step into hte crosshairs...

Nancy Pelosi, while doing admirably in the past, might not be the speaker we need right now.

I feel that right we need a full court press against this administration... Hearings, subpoenas, request for Trump's tax returns, etc. Every day the Republicans should wake up in a cold sweat wondering what new thing the Democratic congress is going to do, propose, or oppose.

In the past, Ms Pelosi has played a safe, conservative game. It hasn't failed utterly, but what have we gotten out of it? How many times has she said "impeachment is off the table", two for different presidents? Even if it is not feasible or in the plans, why throw away a big scary stick?

My worry is that she is going to throttle investigations into this administration's wrong-doings, or that she is going to "play nice" and try to build bridges with an opponent that has no interest in fairness or compromise.

That is why I am leery of Nancy Pelosi getting the speaker-ship again. Not because of age, or sex, but because of past performance.

By the way, healthy discussion and dissent is good. Democrats shouldn't be in lockstep.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:32 AM

53. She has earned the position of speaker.

She’s busted her ass and deserves the seat. She’s already said that she will pass the gavel when the time is right and we should trust her that she will know when that time is here. She is smart and savvy. She and Chuck Schumer were able to talk some sense into the ShitStain before and she was again working her magic on that buffoon on election night so much so that he was all warm and fuzzy about him during his presser yesterday. JFC people, give her the respect she deserves.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:33 AM

54. are you surprised?

We know what is going to happen.

She will become Speaker and get the ball rolling.

She will plan for a transition (which she has already indicated).

I trust Speaker Pelosi to do the right thing.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:36 AM

56. I'll trust those that we elected judgement o this.

We don't vote for the speaker, anyway. I don't really like the MSM pot stirring.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:41 AM

58. Misogyny Rules - It Wasn't Just Directed at Hillary - It's An Issue for All Accomplished Women

There is a deep vein of misogyny that runs through America. We have far to go.

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Response to dlk (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:47 AM

63. So damn easy to see it

 

Even here on DU.

That is ****ing SAD.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:42 AM

59. She gets the blame when Dems aren't elected... then get castigated when we do. (nt)

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:44 AM

62. I don't love Nancy P. But....

Our gov is in dire need of stability. Dems, be loyal, be patient. Nancy Pelosi does not exist in a vacuum. Trust our leaders for this crucial time in history.

Nancy is a target of Repukes. Don’t railroad her like our successful senator, because she’s a repuke target.

The Democratic pot just began simmering Tuesday. Let’s be patient and see what we are served.

Personally I suspect anyone calling out any successful Dem at this moment.

Momentum crushers. Don’t fall for it.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:55 AM

65. are you crazy?!?

We'll never win an election if we don't reach out to deplorables and let GOPers choose our Speaker and our Presidential candidates!!!!1

(Might need an umbrella for the sarcasm dripping off that).

Oh, yeah, you're in the right place. DU must be scary to somebody.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:58 AM

66. Most of the new people that won won by running against her

Popular opposition to Trump lead the way.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:16 PM

83. And if the first vote they make is for her

many of them might not survive their first re-election.

This is going to be a lot more complicated than the cheering section for the old guard here think. Diana DeGette isn’t going to be taking on Clyburn in a vacuum; others will also step up to challenge the other two soon-to-be octogenarians. Between people like DeGette with 20 years in the House who have been stifled by our hidebound seniority rules and the newbies who owe Pelosi nothing the stage is set for a long overdue change at the top.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:50 PM

87. Any Democrat who wants to throw out their Dem rep because they voted for Pelosi

 

is a fool.

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #87)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 04:00 PM

92. Yeah, that was my point



It’s about gifting your R opponent in 2020 by saying you’d oppose Pelosi as a campaign issue then turning around and voting for her.

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Response to BeyondGeography (Reply #92)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 04:06 PM

93. I think you completely missed my point

 

Who did or didn’t vote for Pelosi in 2018 will not be an issue in 2020.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 11:58 AM

67. The circular firing squad is already forming up.

We are Democrats. Of COURSE it's gonna be like herding cats to do anything!




I will admit that I have never been a huge fan of Pelosi. I also have to admit that she's the best person for the job at this point in time, and that has to take priority over a personal opinion. This is a pivotal point for Dems right now. If we screw this up, the backlash could be incredibly ugly in 2020 and the nation simply can't afford that. This is no time for a trainee, this is no time for incompetence. We know Pelosi can do the job, and she is more than competent at it.


Laura

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Response to davsand (Reply #67)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:15 PM

72. I think you speak for many Dems. Unless someone emerges like Obama, stay the course.

I hate “both siderisms” but Dens, R’s and the country need a transformational leader to bring the country back to the middle. That person will not emerge in the next two months so stay with Pelosi. For mental masturbation wouldn’t it be so nice to see President Pelosi after Trump and Spence resign. Anyway, Dems cannot afford to mess this up so let’s concentrate on the future and policy not personalities. And don’t let outsiders divide DU. Right now the last thing we need is a leadership fight.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:02 PM

69. I don't necessarily care either way if she stays...

 

...I like her, she's done a lot and she's a smart person...but I'm not sure in what way she "led" this takeover in any way?

We can give her credit for any legislative victories that take place when she controls the house, or with keeping her caucus in line.

But I fail to see any way in which she takes credit for this victory.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 12:25 PM

75. Ayanna Pressley first African American woman in MA, Alexandria Cortez have refused to say they are

Backing Pelosi. Both young women of color. Are these women mysogonist? Are they not Dems? There is some feeling out there among young Dems that Pelosi is not the right person for this time. I am a woman of color who respects all that Pelosi has done, but I also fear more of the same from our Dem leaders. Watching her yesterday I was not inspired that she was ready to make the fight of our lives. This has nothing to do with she's a woman or that she's polarizing. I threw out some radical brainstorming yesterday out of sheer frustration with what I saw and heard. I watched Ayanna on Cuomo yesterday refuse to say she backs Pelosi, she said she would wait and see who all of the candidates are before deciding. I think we need to discuss things without attacking each other. I am a Dem through and through, not the enemy.

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Response to Pisces (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:16 PM

82. Yeah, it's a bit of excess both ways

I have no torch to carry either way. To some extent I think it is a bit unimportant in many ways, I suspect there are alot of people in congress ready to handle the job. Alternately, I don't think there is alot of harm in keeping her on, especially in the short term. But I don't blame these newly elected folks for not immediately declaring their intentions. Besides good strategy, it's also reasonable thinking. Find out who ALL the candidates are and then make a decision.

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Response to Pisces (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:41 PM

85. +1

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Response to Pisces (Reply #75)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:54 PM

88. I've worked with Pelosi. She speaks softly but is an effing barracuda

 

She eats Republicans alive, smiles while she does it and doesn't get any blood on her Armani suit.

Do not underestimate her - she is the baddest of the badasses

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #88)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:05 PM

89. We need her. (nt)

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Reply #88)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:08 PM

90. Effie, I've seen many of your posts and I'll take your word for it.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 01:27 PM

84. I vote Pelosi.

 

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 02:48 PM

91. Pelosi is guilty of being

a woman, who is an effective leader. If you ask people what they have against her, they have nothing aside from "San Francisco", though it is the woman part that offends them.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Thu Nov 8, 2018, 05:36 PM

95. And 100+ women of all ages and races won Tuesday night

Older white women, younger black women, hell ANY women? Kick them to the curb, but Joe Biden (kinda elderly) and Beto (who lost his race) should run.

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Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #96)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 12:58 AM

110. this

is righteous 👍🏻

✌🏼️

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Response to Pacifist Patriot (Reply #96)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 03:04 AM

113. deserves an OP

of it's own

👍🏻
✌🏼️

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 12:07 AM

108. YUP and

we have a recount in Florida with a black candidate running against Trump's hand-picked stooge.

Look folks, I like Biden as much as anyone. The fact that he was Obama's VP is something that can be driven right into the face of the racists who hate the fact that he proudly and loyally called obama his BOSS. BUT, the idea of a white ticket being put up just to avoid ticking off the always ticked off racists is nothing more than a dog trying to submit in the hope it's master won't beat it anymore (and he will.)

Furthermore, even though Bernie Sanders did have some good ideas, the way he supported racism, and the stubborn unwillingness to learn from it he showed this week, shows that in typical white fashion he does not feel he has to learn anything or make amends. Bernie, how dare you say that people who feel uncomfortable voting fora black person are NOT racist? In true trumpian fashion you went to NPR to "clarify things"

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/08/665809570/bernie-sanders-clarifies-comments-about-racism-hurting-black-candidates?ref=hvper.com&utm_source=hvper.com&utm_medium=website

and I say Trumpian fashion because frankly, this was sugar poured over the verbal turd. If you did not know better by now, then you need to et out of politics till you learn better. This was right up there with Trump's "there are good people on both sides."

I have news for all those good "moderate Centrists" and "old school working class" types. The fact that you did not crush the racists early is the reason why the GOP has all that ammo they use. As long as white america knows that black people can always be put under them, they will NOT support any of these dreams of unionized labor, or more jobs, or anything like that, why? let me get a real political expert to tell you:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/lbj-convince-the-lowest-white-man/

OH yes...the GOP saw white people abandon all dem unions that Mochael Moore and bernie sing about, as well as many of FDR's hard won, bloodstained Standards and turf, because white people felt they did not have to walk hand in hand with blacks and browns. You will not get this ward won turf back until you promise to work with others, even if that means being side by side with the same people the GOP tells you should be under you!

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 12:39 AM

109. I share your concern

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 02:14 AM

111. K and R forever.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 02:25 AM

112. "in the right place" sometimes like you

I wonder too especially with some of the stuff I've seen today. So divisive, I can't help but wonder if that's the intent.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 09:49 AM

122. Its just discussion. So if you like political discussion then you're in the right place.


BTW: I'm good with Pelosi as speaker for the next 2 years.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:18 AM

125. Pelosi and DU are tops in my book. Solid Democrat here.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:23 AM

126. Sad but true

The misogyny is thick in here. Nancy Pelosi is a strong and intelligent woman and the Democratic party needs her. The people need here. Sick and tired of the ageism towards her. She is not too old for anything, she gets shit done.

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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:30 AM

127. And non-white and women candidates (and a lot of non-white women) won big-

That's the future.
White men like Avenatti and Sanders might kind of have a vested interest in telling us all that 2020 is for the white men again. After all, after 225 years of only white-men candidates in both parties, there have been three elections now with non-white-men as the Democratic nominee. All three (well, O twice) won the popular vote. Twice the non-white-man won the majority and the presidency.

And out in the country, who won this year? Well, there was that non-white lesbian kickboxer (my new favorite EVER!), among many who didn't fit the historically dominant Sanders model.

We have seen this before... all the pearl-clutching about how things are changing too fast! Or that they haven't REALLY changed at all (ignore the evidence!).

Here's a white guy who understood the score-- :
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
The battle outside ragin'
Will soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

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Response to dawg day (Reply #127)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:39 AM

129. The Black Caucus has made it clear they want a leadership in this Congress. Not only is it way past

due, but I believe that will happen with the new Congress



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Response to EffieBlack (Original post)

Fri Nov 9, 2018, 09:48 PM

133. There's one person who would be a more appropriate speaker after indictments drop

That would be Hillary Clinton.

Not taking anything away from Congresswoman Pelosi who I admire greatly. But there is no rule that says the Speaker has to be a Congressperson. Under the right circumstances (I.e., Pence and Trump are both indicted) it would be karmic justice to immediately get Secretary Clinton into the line of succession so she can claim back what was stolen from her. And think of how apoplectic Trump would be having to answer to her.

But if Pence and Trump are not both indicted before January, then Pelosi is our person.

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