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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt is completely unacceptable for news networks to announce winners before all the votes are counted
This happened in Florida, Georgia and Arizona. Now we have a complete and unnecessary mess going on. When will this country get on top of these election nightmares? Count all the votes before deciding winners and losers seems pretty simple to me!
liberal N proud
(60,304 posts)Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)unblock
(51,982 posts)at some point in their broadcast, they usually mention something about the process where secretaries of state actually certify the results of the elections, etc.
but to some extent we all use the shorthand of taking the apparent results as sufficiently likely to be certified as to accept them as fast.
technically, we haven't won the house yet, we still need to wait for a lot of races to be officially certified. it's just that there's very little reason to think the results will change, except in the few remaining close races.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Gillum conceded after all the "projected winner" crap was announced. Maybe we need to instruct our candidates not to concede for a couple of days after the election, just in case. It's hard to un-concede because people remember those speeches.
unblock
(51,982 posts)concession speeches are informal, not legally binding, and are just an opportunity to be polite, show some good sportsmanship, and to thank everyone who helped the campaign.
but they on no way bar the candidate from serving if they are, perhaps surprisingly, declared the winner.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)Concession speeches have NO more legal impact than a campaign speech does.
A better use of your time would bt to advocate for people to attend a civics class so that they have some understanding of the political process and the role media plays.
Aside from the role of media, if you believe Gillum conceded based on media's projection of a winner you are deluding yourself. Gillum has his own staff members who are experienced in election projections, and he conceded based on their advice - not reports in the media. The timing of his concession speech was similar to the projections, because everyone was working off the same flawed assumptions about how many ballots were outstanding. Doing the math is trivial, if you have an accurate total of outstanding ballots.
Personally, I don't care about media projections at all - aside from not calling national races while the polls are still open in any state. I don't want our candidates conceding until alll of the votes are counted out of respect for all of those who worked so hard for the choice. That has happened to me - and it is a real slap in the face. My request is purely to respect for the workers to wait until all of the votes they rounded up are counted.
Unconceding is no big deal - unless you cede that argument to the Republicans.
Small-Axe
(359 posts)And thank goodness. I strongly hope he wins.
But the media calling his race as a projected a win for his opponent has not cost him his seat.
If he wins, people will remember.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)That's just silly.
Or, perhaps, you think only people with reasonable math skills should be in on the secret.
The information is publically availablke on every Secretary of State's website. I did my own prediction of Ohio's gubernatorial race about 5 minutes before the media reported the same result by working out how many ballots were yet to be counted, where they were, and which candidate they were likely to break for.
Just because Republicans with a good sense for the message their base wants to hear have gotten out in front with their own messagingis no reason to withhold analysis of publically available information from the rest of us.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)until all the votes are counted. Seems simple and honest to me.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)Several days after that, after provisional ballots are verified and counted, after military ballots (that are allowed, at least in some instances, to arrive late).
The media is projecting who they believe will win based on publically available information and modeling.
Frankly, that's their job.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)PROJECTED winners before all the votes are counted.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)projecting election results before all the votes are counted. Somehow you think I disapprove of the 1st Amendment. WRONG.
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)and call it immoral and unethical for them to make projections, yes, I think you lack the proper respect for the first amendment. That's the same kind of language Trump uses to refer to journalists who are just doing their job.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)Their job is to investigate, analyze, and report the news. Making projections on election night involves all three.
Anytime moral pronouncements are made about reporters doing their jobs (i.e. suggesting they are immoral or unethical) it is an attack on the first amendment.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Kaleva
(36,147 posts)YessirAtsaFact
(2,064 posts)The results may change if the outstanding votes are significantly different from the votes that have already been counted, blah blah.
Was Arizona called? There are only 83% of the votes in now.
Mariana
(14,849 posts)Anyone who thinks those projections are anything else just isn't paying attention.
FloridaBlues
(3,993 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Tom Rivers
(459 posts)Only one that was ever called was Florida Governor and that was only as "Apparent Winner".
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)People take those statements very seriously.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Only ONE did the networks ever give a "projected/apparent winner" for. DeSantis was Apparent/Projected (one or the other ... 'projected' being the 'stronger' term).
The other three ... nope.
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)marylandblue
(12,344 posts)You can't be allegedly shot, you either have a bullet in you or don't.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)Being shot is something that happens instantly.
Of course you can project an 'apparent winner'.
For example, when the Steelers were up 52-21 with 5 seconds left in last nights game ... they were the 'apparent winner'. 5 seconds later, they were 'the winner'.
Nothing wrong with that terminology.
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)And if the difference is 52-21, then no problem. But if the score is 28-27 and the losing team is in field goal range, then it's premature.
They just shouldn't be calling close elections.
Mariana
(14,849 posts)How does anyone read or hear "apparent winner" or "projected winner" or any similar phrasing, and take it as an absolute final declaration of the result?
brooklynite
(93,889 posts)...whats the problem.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)...get that vote counts overturning a prematurely called election is not cheating at work.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)I don't think that's how it's supposed to work.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)It still doesn't make it their job to protect us from our own stupidity.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)from their own ignorance or lack of sophistication. Projections are estimates, nothing more, and they always make this clear in the broadcasts.
If people cant figure that out then theyre at fault, not the media.
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Garrett78
(10,721 posts)Quixote1818
(28,905 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)The mess is in the vote counting nothing to do with the announcing.
California can count votes until Dec 7th (see: https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article220957360.html )
Do you really want to prevent the news media from announcing any results until then?
MFM008
(19,782 posts)How quickly fox news called Florida?
Anyone else think it was to depress the vote?
Corvo Bianco
(1,148 posts)Jesus christ.