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NNadir

(33,475 posts)
Fri Nov 9, 2018, 10:45 PM Nov 2018

When the worst President in US history was in office, a tall, lanky, fun guy lost a Senate election.

He ran because an insanely racist Supreme Court made rulings that tore the country apart.

He lost, relatively narrowly, to Steven Douglas, racist, because he held locally unpopular opinions, but his espousal of these opinions garnered national attention.

Two years later, he was elected President of the United States, replacing the man considered, at least until recently, to be the worst President in US history, James Buchanan.

I am, of course, referring to Abraham Lincoln, Senate loser in 1858, who came to the 1860 convention as everybody's second choice for President, with the exception of some party leaders in his home state, Illinois, where he was the first choice.

The rest is history.

Just saying...

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When the worst President in US history was in office, a tall, lanky, fun guy lost a Senate election. (Original Post) NNadir Nov 2018 OP
I hear the chants now: Beto, Beto, Beto, Beto!!!! rgbecker Nov 2018 #1
Beto literally came to my neighborhood on Oct 23rd LeftInTX Nov 2018 #2
I have had the good fortune to see Beto in person 4 times... Lisa0825 Nov 2018 #3
Very interesting comparison. As it turned out, one of the most significant speeches... George II Nov 2018 #4
Probably it was his third or fourth most beautiful speech. NNadir Nov 2018 #15
That second excerpt is indeed beautiful. Hard to think that modern day republicans boast... George II Nov 2018 #22
Contemporary descriptions of his voice described as high and reedy... NNadir Nov 2018 #26
... pamela Nov 2018 #5
Nice. iluvtennis Nov 2018 #6
+1 dalton99a Nov 2018 #23
Sadly, I still think Beto is just a little too young to be accepted for president dhol82 Nov 2018 #7
He's a little older than he looks cannabis_flower Nov 2018 #8
Wow, did not realize he was that old. dhol82 Nov 2018 #9
He was.. cannabis_flower Nov 2018 #14
He'll be 48 in 2020 Awsi Dooger Nov 2018 #10
I will agree with you dhol82 Nov 2018 #11
Schiff is a member of the House, not the Senate. When Nancy leaves, he'd be a great Speaker. hedda_foil Nov 2018 #12
Sorry, brain fart. dhol82 Nov 2018 #20
I agree he should go for it. I'm open to many other candidates, and am not necessarily... NNadir Nov 2018 #16
+1. Beto is an amazing guy who knows how to energize and motivate people. dalton99a Nov 2018 #24
Perfect age treestar Nov 2018 #25
Beto is 46 crazycatlady Nov 2018 #18
It could happen. Liberal In Texas Nov 2018 #13
2020 is Beto's to lose. joshcryer Nov 2018 #17
I don't know that I'd go that far, but I believe he deserves a serious look. NNadir Nov 2018 #19
I would rather see him VP, BUT I will most assuredly be thrilled if he is top of the ticket as well Celerity Nov 2018 #21
I thought for a second you were talking about W and Obama ProfessorPlum Nov 2018 #27
The speech Lincoln made in New York after losing changed the dynamics. Blue_true Nov 2018 #28
Was Abe Lincoln a "fun" guy? Mr. Quackers Nov 2018 #29
Absolutely. A huge part of his brilliance was... NNadir Nov 2018 #30
I'll have to check that out Mr. Quackers Nov 2018 #31
People who knew Lincoln often remarked on the depth with which he could express his sadness... NNadir Nov 2018 #32

LeftInTX

(25,146 posts)
2. Beto literally came to my neighborhood on Oct 23rd
Fri Nov 9, 2018, 11:05 PM
Nov 2018

Since I'm a precinct chair, it gave me an excuse to bother all of the voters with, "Beto is coming to the library". It was our precinct's "Bye Bye Birdie" moment.

The next week, he went to a tiny park called Garza Park. Garza Park basically consists of a rec center and some monkey bars. It is the kinda place where you just go to the rec center for free lunch or free dance lessons. It is isn't the safest place to hang out. Other than that there is nothing. But Beto went there.

Lisa0825

(14,487 posts)
3. I have had the good fortune to see Beto in person 4 times...
Fri Nov 9, 2018, 11:07 PM
Nov 2018

He is a rockstar! He has that *it* that can't be taught. He connects with people and makes them feel like anything is possible.

I would proudly vote for him again for any office.

George II

(67,782 posts)
4. Very interesting comparison. As it turned out, one of the most significant speeches...
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 12:07 AM
Nov 2018

...Abraham Lincoln made in 1860, was at my college, Cooper Union, which was considered the address that essentially won the Republican nomination for him.

NNadir

(33,475 posts)
15. Probably it was his third or fourth most beautiful speech.
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 05:20 AM
Nov 2018

The Cooper Union speech:

"Let us have faith that right makes might; and in that faith let us, to the end, dare to do our duty as we understand it."


The descriptions of that speech are very moving. He gave it several times after Cooper Union in the Northeast; as he was traveling up to visit his son who was attending Harvard.

In my opinion, it vies with a speech he didn't actually read, but was read to congress (as was the practice at the time), a speech that was the equivalent of a modern "State of the Union," his 1862 annual message to Congress.

Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this Congress and this administration, will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth.


I steal that beautiful locution "last best hope of earth," all the time, taking it out of context.

It is remarkable that a one term Congressman and backwards lawyer with essentially no formal education could have such a command of language. Among the world's greatest autodidacts, few can compare.

George II

(67,782 posts)
22. That second excerpt is indeed beautiful. Hard to think that modern day republicans boast...
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 10:32 AM
Nov 2018

....that they are members of "the Party of Lincoln".

And it's a shame that we know very little about how his speeches actually sounded. If only we could go back and record those speeches somehow.

NNadir

(33,475 posts)
26. Contemporary descriptions of his voice described as high and reedy...
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 12:17 PM
Nov 2018

Last edited Sat Nov 10, 2018, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)

...with a strong Kentucky/southern accent, which he used judiciously to get his opponents in court to under estimate him.

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
8. He's a little older than he looks
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 12:48 AM
Nov 2018

He's only a year younger than Ted Cruz. He's 46 now. In 2 years he will be 48.

dhol82

(9,352 posts)
9. Wow, did not realize he was that old.
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 12:50 AM
Nov 2018

Damn! I would vote for him next election!
Go Beto!
How much government experience does he have?

cannabis_flower

(3,764 posts)
14. He was..
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 02:11 AM
Nov 2018

On the El Paso City council from 2005-2011 and then was elected to the House in 2012 and served 3 terms

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
10. He'll be 48 in 2020
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 12:54 AM
Nov 2018

I think he should go for it.

Texas changes everything in terms of electoral math. If we flip Texas that is a 76 vote swing and we can afford to lose Florida and Ohio and elsewhere.

The Texas electorate would be markedly different in 2020...much younger and more favorable to Beto. I made that point in a thread last night. No matter how good it looks from an enthusiasm edge in a midterm you don not get the same type of participation from young voters or other blocks that favor our side.

Beto could absolutely win Texas in 2020, if Trump does not soar in popularity between now and then. No other Democrat can be competitive in that state.

My argument is always that charisma is needed to oust an incumbent, and especially one whose party has been in power only one term. I also believe we are much better off with a male than female nominee. I can state flat out that simplistic angry males I know would respect and consider Beto. But they will ruthlessly mock and attack any female nominee, no matter who she is or where she comes from.

Our other candidates are not special. We want to pretend Kamala Harris is special. She is special only in comparison to others on the run of the mill list. Beto is by far my first choice, and Amy Klobuchar would be second.

Keep it simple stupid. If everyone here was mesmerized by Beto then we should nominate Beto. I still think there is asinine denial toward how difficult it is going to be to deny Donald Trump in 2020. Play our best card.

dhol82

(9,352 posts)
11. I will agree with you
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 12:59 AM
Nov 2018

As much as I like Schiff he just doesn’t have the charisma necessary for a run for President. He makes an incredible senator and a major force in congress.
Beto has proven himself as a viable candidate.
We might have a winner.

NNadir

(33,475 posts)
16. I agree he should go for it. I'm open to many other candidates, and am not necessarily...
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 08:19 AM
Nov 2018

...supporting his nomination, but he is an interesting guy from what I can tell, certainly possessed of charisma.

After losing the Senate in 1858, Lincoln carried Illinois in 1860.

dalton99a

(81,406 posts)
24. +1. Beto is an amazing guy who knows how to energize and motivate people.
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 10:47 AM
Nov 2018

The outpouring of support and enthusiasm was phenomenal and unprecedented

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
18. Beto is 46
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 08:56 AM
Nov 2018

By 2020, he will be older than both Obama and (Bill) Clinton when they were elected president.

He's our Gen X star.

Celerity

(43,134 posts)
21. I would rather see him VP, BUT I will most assuredly be thrilled if he is top of the ticket as well
Sat Nov 10, 2018, 10:30 AM
Nov 2018

ProfessorPlum

(11,253 posts)
27. I thought for a second you were talking about W and Obama
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:29 AM
Nov 2018

but of course, Obama won. Also from Illinois, of course.

Great post!

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
28. The speech Lincoln made in New York after losing changed the dynamics.
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 08:36 AM
Nov 2018

And he came to the convention with a savvy team of operators.

NNadir

(33,475 posts)
30. Absolutely. A huge part of his brilliance was...
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 10:01 AM
Nov 2018

...connected with his use of humor. He was full of tall tales and jokes which he used as parables to make a point.

It is said that more books have written about Lincoln than about any other English speaking person in history. In my personal library I may have 20 or 30; I've lost count. One of my favorites is a book I believe I may have picked up in Springfield on his sense of humor, a compilation of his jokes and stories.

NNadir

(33,475 posts)
32. People who knew Lincoln often remarked on the depth with which he could express his sadness...
Sun Nov 11, 2018, 05:58 PM
Nov 2018

...and suffering.

He was, as one might imagine, an intensely complex man of incredible contrasts.

There is a story of a cabinet meeting at which he showed up and read two chapters of a joke book that particularly impressed him to the cabinet. It was a hard time in the war; and Secretary of War Stanton, who evolved from someone who thought Lincoln a fool into one of his greatest admirers - Stanton had humiliated Lincoln before the war when they served as lawyers on a very involved patent case in which Stanton was the lead attorney - was outraged that they were reading a joke book at a cabinet meeting when men were dying in a horrible war which at the time the Union was losing.

Stanton wrote of that occasion in which he was thinking of storming out of the meeting, and how Lincoln responded to the fact that nobody was laughing at the joke book written by "Artemus Ward."

“I was considering whether I should rise and leave the meeting abruptly, when he (Lincoln) threw his book down, heaved a long sigh, and said:

“ ‘Gentlemen, why don’t you laugh? With the fearful strain that is upon me night and day, if I did not laugh I should die, and you need this medicine as much as I do.’"


He felt the horror of the war deeply, and the depth is recorded eloquently in the Gettysburg Address and in the Second Inaugural speech.

At one point in the war he remarked, "If there is a place worse than hell, I am in it."

So, as he plainly confessed, he needed humor.

His stories were backwoods humor mostly, learned on the court circuit, and without his voice - it was said he was an incredible mimic - they may not be as funny written down as they were when he delivered them.

Early in the Civil War, the then unknown Civil War General Ulysses S. Grant captured a Confederate army then lead by a man who had been a very close friend before the war, Simon Buckner. When Buckner asked for surrender terms, Grant replied, "No terms other than unconditional surrender can be accepted. I propose to move immediately upon your works." As a result, Grant shot to fame and for a time became known as "Unconditional Surrender Grant."

Later, Grant accepted the surrender of a second Confederate Army, the army occupying Vicksburg but did give the surrendering army terms, which was that it released all the prisoners of war captured on paroles: Grant, whose success was attributed to his knowledge of logistics as much as his resolve, risk taking, intelligence and raw courage, thought he would lose time if he transported the captured men to camps in the North.

Lincoln, Grant's biggest fan in the Government, was confronted by critics who complained about the paroles granted by "Unconditional Surrender Grant."

He said that Grant's situation reminded him of "Skyes' Dog:"

"Have you ever heard," said he, "the story of Sykes' dog? Well, I must tell you about him. Sykes had a yellow dog he set a great store by; but there were a lot of small boys about the village and that's always a bad thing for dogs, you know. These boys didn't share Sykes' views and they were not disposed to let the dog have a fair show. Even Sykes had to admit that the dog was getting unpopular; in fact, it was soon seen that there was a prejudice growing up against that dog that threatened to wreck all his future prospects in life. The boys, after meditating how they could get the best of him, finally fixed upon a cartridge with a long fuse, put the cartridge in a piece of meat in the road in front of Sykes' door, and then perched themselves on the fence, a good distance off, with the fuse in their hands. Then they whistled for the dog. When he came out he scented the bait and bolted the meat, cartridge and all. The boys touched off the fuse and in about a second a report came from that dog that sounded like a clap of thunder. Sykes came bouncing out of the house and yelled, ' What's up? Anything busted? ' And looking up, he saw the air filled with pieces of yellow dog. He picked up the biggest piece he could find a portion of the back with the tail still hanging to it and, after turning it around and looking it all over, he said : 'Well, I guess he'll never be of much account again as a dog.' And I guess Pemberton's forces will never be of much account again as an army."


Source: Charles French, Abraham Lincoln, copyright 1891

Lincoln's stories, which sometimes, even often, annoyed men like Stanton, almost always had a point.
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