General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA woman led Dems back to the majority in the House....
A man led Dems further into the minority in the Senate...
People are talking about replacing the woman....
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Link to tweet
SMDH
randr
(12,482 posts)And it would not have happened without Nancy leading the way.
MrsCoffee
(5,822 posts)It's so transparent.
Hekate
(94,875 posts)justhanginon
(3,328 posts)apcalc
(4,518 posts)If it isnt Pelosi. Dems better not piss off women.
Response to hlthe2b (Original post)
Post removed
apcalc
(4,518 posts)No idea what you are talking about. None . Zero . Zip. Nada.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Just mentioning.
apcalc
(4,518 posts)Show me the quotes. You are TOTALLY making this up. You a troll or something?
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)Shame on you.
I have expressed support for the new congresswoman but concern that she is not taking the opportunity to learn from others. All the while expressing my hope for her success.
Shame on you for lying about me.
Kaleva
(38,250 posts)Doesn't sound like "concern' to me.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)such strawman arguments and misrepresentation wants to admit so or not.
Criticism is NOT attacking. No matter how much you want to attack others and make it so.
I would hope you would cease stalking me on these threads.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And a progressive message motivated the voters.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)WOULD not have happened.
Those who fail to appreciate the fights that women have made-- before the AOC's and the other successful women going to Congress -- and how that paved the way are just blinded, ungrateful, and foolish. Foolish? yes, because they are unlikely to learn what they NEED to learn from the experiences of those who came before them.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)But at a certain point, the older generation, my generation, must take a back seat and serve as advisors.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)the leadership role and her much needed experience. To say otherwise is approaching an ugly ageism argument, IMO.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)She still could have a role, as could Sanders, as an advisor.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)faces, mentoring (just as it appears she is doing with AOC and likely others). There are lots of leadership positions besides Speaker, for heavens sakes.
I appreciate her leadership, which brought us Obamacare against the odds (and yes, that was largely due to Pelosi). I also LOVE that she drives Trump and the RW nuts. Keeping them off guard, is but one more reason to have her continue.
Not to mention the fact that not ONE person has stepped forward to run against her, (though she has invited others to do so). So, exactly, who is it you support against Pelosi? My money is on her.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)and I do not have anyone to put forward. But that choice belongs to the House Democratic caucus. My point is that the Democrats, and the leadership, must at some point actively promote from the ranks knowing that young blood is the future of the Party.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Autumn
(46,397 posts)A lot of us older people probably won't be around when it all turns to shit. The world belongs to the young and I support them taking charge because the truth is I don't see our older leaders being willing to do what has to be done.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)and write, and act, and be involved, but the next generation is ready and able to lead just as we were in the 1970's.
Autumn
(46,397 posts)R B Garr
(17,380 posts)a back seat?
erronis
(16,909 posts)I'm not particularly proud of my efforts to inject rationality into the politics or discourse, but I also think that there has been very conscious and directed interference into US and world relations and politics that is not to be laid at the feet of "older people".
I applaud the enthusiasm and energy of all that fight for liberalism and for the planet. AFAIK, in my part of the world there are a lot of 60+ year-old enthusiasts. And many of us hope to be around for several decades to continue to fight for what's right and to give perspective to the newer ones.
And, of course as we all know, it is always the fault of those that came before us.
R B Garr
(17,380 posts)He ran for President decades ago, but was rejected because of the both sides are the same lies. What revisionist history to misrepresent what our older leaders have done and put forth...being willing to do what has to be done.
This kind of opposite world is not helpful, especially if young people are being fed this misinformation about Democrats.
R B Garr
(17,380 posts)Why the double standards? Does Bernie have to go away?
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)Advisory role.
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And thank you.
Bfd
(1,406 posts)Ya. That message.
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)a living wage,
free tuition,
the right to organize,
and many other progressive ideas.
Bfd
(1,406 posts)The smilarities aren't even debatable.
But they are always negotiable under the Democratic legislature.
What you say is progresive is not exclusive to one nor the other.
Much of what you list was also in Democratic candidate Clinton's policy platform of 2016. And was also in many of the campaign platforms of the Democrats that just handily defeated the Republicans in the recent midterms.
No political group owns exclusive rights to any of them as they are fluid.
Why the need to use these as a point of division. It is simply defeatist.
At a critical time when the Republican Party has decimated so many years of functional policys & laws, hard fought for through legislative efforts of that big grand Democratic Party
Stop with the exclusivity claims & division.
Cha
(305,574 posts)Link to tweet
Amanpour interviews Congressman-elect Tom Malinowski (D flipped seat that was R since '81)
snip//
I want to play something that maybe speaker, certainly Leader Pelosi said to me in September because a lot of people said well you know what, the Democrats don't really have a message to complete with Make America Great Again.
There's no slogan, there's no clear strategy but this is where she laid out in September.
What we're about in our campaign is that we are for the people, for lower health care costs, lowering prescription drug prices.
We're for raising pay checks, lowering healthcare costs, increasing paychecks by building the infrastructure of America and for cleaning up government to make sure people understand that the people's interest, not the special interests are served here in the United States Capitol.
So there she was laying out a strategy and one that clearly is a winning strategy
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/congressman-elect-tom-malinowski/
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11406195
The Predominate Message was Affordable Health Care.
Eric J in MN
(35,620 posts)...have done differently to cause Democrats running for Senate to do better?
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)eleny
(46,166 posts)He's one of the crew trying to keep her from being Speaker. I emailed him just now letting him know that if he doesn't change his position we're stopping our monthly support. I'll call the office tomorrow about it, too.
I'm boiling over this because Perlmutter is one of those quiet back benchers but this is the issue that puts him in a spotlight? Grrr....
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)opposition to suggest "only if she fails to promote new members to leaderhship positions). Now, I can't find where I read it...
eleny
(46,166 posts)And I'm thrilled that he might be feeling the heat. I'll definitely call his local office. In fact, I might go up there since it's about 10 minutes from our house. He's right next to Soopers up in Wheat Ridge on Youngfield. Stopping in might be more impactful, hee-hee!
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)eleny
(46,166 posts)PoorMonger
(844 posts)However , this persons big nightmare scenario isnt how the speakership works.
The parties elect their leaders amongst themselves. The later vote on Speaker comes in January when the new Congress is seated.
That speaker needs a real majority of members - which no Republican could achieve ( because as the majority none of our members would vote for ANY R as speaker
msongs
(70,210 posts)PoorMonger
(844 posts)They might drag out the vote a long time but you are saying you think that a large chunk of DEMOCRATS would actually elect Kevin McCarthy speaker to get back at Nancy??
Thats not happening. These arent a bunch of idiots here. They are elected Dems to believe they would throw away control being petty is ludicrous
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)a Kevin MCCarthy getting the majority of votes. I never said they would vote for a Republican. This could happen by foolish misunderstanding of the process.
PoorMonger
(844 posts)You need a real majority of votes in the whole house to win speaker. With a Dem majority the only way a R would win is if Dems vote with Republicans to do it.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)The House of Representatives elects the Speaker of the House on the first day of every new Congress and in the event of the death, resignation or removal from the Chair of an incumbent Speaker.[8] The Clerk of the House of Representatives requests nominations: there are normally two, one from each major party (each party having previously met to decide on its nominee). The Clerk then calls the roll of the Representatives, each Representative indicating the surname of the candidate the Representative is supporting. Representatives are not restricted to voting for one of the nominated candidates and may vote for any person, even for someone who is not a member of the House at all. They may also abstain by voting "present".[9]
Although no rule exists, based on tradition and practice from the earliest days of the nation, to be elected speaker a candidate must receive an absolute majority of all votes cast for individuals, i.e. excluding those who abstain. If no candidate wins such a majority, then the roll call is repeated until a speaker is elected. The last time repeated votes were required was in 1923, when the Speaker was elected on the ninth ballot.[9]
PoorMonger
(844 posts)Which results in multiple votes ( because nobody achieves a real majority) you think a large chunk of Dems would vote present out of spite and hand power to Republicans?
Never mind the fact that vote counting and support gathering is what the Speaker and Whip do all the time ( before we even arrive at the Speaker vote ) if things are really so dire for Nancy before then she would be the first to know and it would be sorted out before then.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)There is time to wisen them up to the process, but the rhetoric right now is disturbing--not just because they want an alternative, but that they clearly don't GET the process, the position, and what is needed for a effective speaker. Obviously this doesn't apply across the board, but for some of the more naive' new members, yes.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)Newland56
(74 posts)Are you serious that gender of leadership was the deciding factor in senate vs house results?
Personally I think the senate was nearly as big a victory as the house. When the number of seats democrats had to defend is taken into account the small losses in the senate is astounding. In any other midterm we should have lost 6-10 seats in a best case scenario.
While gender equality is important to our party and country, the slight against Schumer because of his gender affecting his leadership ability reflects the same sexism I thought that our party was against. And to use the results only through the lens of gender will most likely harm the party going forward.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)(but then, i sort of think you knew that, didn't you)... I don't do strawman arguments.
Sorry I got confused
When I read a woman led the house back to a majority and a man led the senate to a greater minority...
I thought that was referencing the gender woman to the positive house results and the gender man to the losses in the senate.
Sorry if I misunderstood the framing in regards to gender and results
Cuthbert Allgood
(5,183 posts)We have a problem with old, white people being the politicians when that does not reflect society. Old, white men is an even bigger problem. We need people that look more like the people that vote for them.
LBM20
(1,580 posts)Cuthbert Allgood
(5,183 posts)I'd like specifics for specific races.
I'll wait.
progressoid
(50,757 posts)It was Cindy Axne. She and her team (including thousands of volunteers like myself) worked their butts off to win.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)progressoid
(50,757 posts)hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)I have to question your motivation for not giving her any credit whatsoever. Maybe you are just ill informed or maybe it is something else, but progressives/Democrats owe it to themselves to educate themselves on the history of our party, our leaders, our evolution.
deurbano
(2,957 posts)as she tirelessly crisscrossed the country. My daughter, a Pelosi-appointed Ca Dem delegate, worked everyday on GOTV for Red to Blue here in SF in the lead up to the election, so I did get a small glimpse behind the scenes, and Nancy Pelosi seemed to be working non-stop and very effectively to ensure this result. I listened into a couple of briefings (sometimes my daughter participated in these at the office, but other times she participated at home, listening to the briefing on speaker phone) as Leader Pelosi was galvanizing the troops, with representatives from different GOTV organizations reporting in from around the country. She funded the San Francisco Red to Blue headquarters, where a gazillion volunteers made countless calls and sent countless texts to GOTV on behalf of candidates like Josh Harder who just flipped CA 10. I don't know how much she raised for each specific race, but I've included a snippet from a CNN piece about the "eye-popping" amount of money she raised for this election cycle. An Atlantic Monthly snippet (below) includes a quote from Politico calling her the most successful nonpresidential political fundraiser in U.S. history," and a quote from Thomas Mann, who studies Congress at the Brookings Institution, calling her the strongest and most effective speaker of modern times.
https://hoodline.com/2018/09/with-election-day-weeks-away-castro-debuts-red-to-blue-office-for-democratic-volunteers
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/15/politics/nancy-pelosi-fundraising-democrats/index.html
Through June, Pelosi had raised an eye-popping $83 million for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee for the 2018 election cycle, more than double the next closest Democrat, according to an internal list for the group charged with electing more Democrats to the US House of Representatives. A source briefed on the matter said that through July she had raised nearly $91 million for the party committee, which is spending big in hotly contested races including where Democratic candidates are running away from Pelosi.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/04/the-nancy-pelosi-problem/554048/
The Nancy Pelosi Problem
The first female speaker of the House has become the most effective congressional leader of modern timesand, not coincidentally, the most vilified.
PETER BEINART, APRIL 2018
Last may, The Washington Posts James Hohmann noted an uncovered dynamic that helped explain the GOPs failure to repeal Obamacare. Three current Democratic House members had opposed the Affordable Care Act when it first passed. Twelve Democratic House members represent districts that Donald Trump won. Yet none voted for repeal. The uncovered dynamic, Hohmann suggested, was Nancy Pelosis skill at keeping her party in line.
Shes been keeping it in line for more than a decade. In 2005, George W. Bush launched his second presidential term with an aggressive push to partially privatize Social Security. For nine months, Republicans demanded that Democrats admit the retirement system was in crisis and offer their own program to change it. Pelosi refused. Democratic members of Congress hosted more than 1,000 town-hall meetings to rally opposition to privatization. That fall, Republicans backed down, and Bushs second term never recovered.
In 2009, Pelosi persuaded deficit-wary Blue Dog Democrats to back Barack Obamas stimulus package, and it passed without a single Republican vote. The following year, when Rahm Emanuel, then the White House chief of staff, suggested scaling back health-care reform after the Democrats surprise Senate loss in Massachusetts, Pelosi insisted that Obama maintain his goal of universal coverage. She enraged her pro-choice allies by allowing a vote on an amendment prohibiting women insured through the laws health-care exchanges from receiving government-subsidized abortions. But that gave antiabortion Democrats cover to support the bill, which passed with nary a Republican vote.
These victories led Thomas Mann, who studies Congress at the Brookings Institution, to call Pelosi the strongest and most effective speaker of modern times. And even after being relegated to minority leader when Republicans took the House in 2010, she kept winning legislative fights. In the summer of 2015, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and the Republican Party launched a mammoth lobbying campaign to kill Obamas nuclear agreement with Iran. Pelosi quickly secured the votes to prevent Republicans from overturning the agreement, thus checkmating the deals foes.
In addition to being a masterful legislative tactician, the 77-year-old Pelosi is, in Politicos words, the most successful nonpresidential political fundraiser in U.S. history. ... One might think grassroots Democratic enthusiasm for Pelosi would offset her lack of appeal among Republicans and independents. The party, after all, is moving left, where Pelosi has been all along. She opposed Bill Clintons attempt to allow China into the World Trade Organization; she opposed Dont Ask, Dont Tell, his policy that prevented LGBT Americans from serving openly in the military; she opposed the Iraq War when most of the House Democratic leadership, and almost every Democratic senator running for president, supported it; and she opposed Obamas push for the fast-track trade authority necessary to finalize the Trans-Pacific Partnership. Yet a September CNN poll found that Democrats were only 11 points more likely to view Pelosi favorably than unfavorably.
Gender scholars would not be surprised. For a 2010 paper in the Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, the Yale researchers Victoria Brescoll and Tyler Okimoto showed study participants the fictional biographies of two state senators, identical except that one was named John Burr and the other Ann Burr. (I referred to this study in an October 2016 article for this magazine called Fear of a Female President.) When quotations were added that described the state senators as ambitious and possessing a strong will to power, John Burr became more popular. But the changes provoked moral outrage toward Ann Burr, whom both men and women became less willing to support....
progressoid
(50,757 posts)All of these Democrats who will vote against Pelosi, no matter what, FAIL TO UNDERSTAND...
If Kevin McCarthy, the House GOP minority leader, gets MORE total votes than Pelosi...
HE WILL BECOME SPEAKER.
These Dems can lose us the speakership.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)Do some homework. While it is quite unlikely, if there are enough foolish D's that refuse to develop a consensus around a single D Speaker candidate--whoever that might be, or decide abstaining will send a "message" it theoretically could happen.
Selection
The House of Representatives elects the Speaker of the House on the first day of every new Congress and in the event of the death, resignation or removal from the Chair of an incumbent Speaker.[8] The Clerk of the House of Representatives requests nominations: there are normally two, one from each major party (each party having previously met to decide on its nominee). The Clerk then calls the roll of the Representatives, each Representative indicating the surname of the candidate the Representative is supporting. Representatives are not restricted to voting for one of the nominated candidates and may vote for any person, even for someone who is not a member of the House at all. They may also abstain by voting "present".[9]
Although no rule exists, based on tradition and practice from the earliest days of the nation, to be elected speaker a candidate must receive an absolute majority of all votes cast for individuals, i.e. excluding those who abstain. If no candidate wins such a majority, then the roll call is repeated until a speaker is elected. The last time repeated votes were required was in 1923, when the Speaker was elected on the ninth ballot.[9]
progressoid
(50,757 posts)hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)If those naive' new members who have claimed they would NEVER vote for Pelosi likewise don't understand the process, and abstain to make a point, yes, it could happen.
PoorMonger
(844 posts)And Kevin McCarthy gets every R vote that isnt a majority.
Thats another round of voting.
So unless Ds vote for him or consciously decide to tank by voting present as a bloc that cant occur.
When people vote present it is seen as their small protest vote this is true . But you would need a large number to decide thats what they wanted to do
Typically the present vote is also something negotiated and accounted for by the speaker ( so as not to fuck it up )
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)LBM20
(1,580 posts)No offense to her, but I think it's time for a change.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(32,537 posts)hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(32,537 posts)hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)because of your support of Pelosi?
Eliot Rosewater
(32,537 posts)hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)I think ageism is the biggest factor on DU vis-a-vis Pelosi. The RW hate is more misogyny. Of course we have some who hate her for both biases.
I have faith that she will pull everyone together.
Eliot Rosewater
(32,537 posts)has infected the thought process of a bunch of people on all sides.
Wait, that is Hillary.
Uh oh, guess what, applies to both of them doesnt it.
hlthe2b
(106,476 posts)sagesnow
(2,871 posts)keep the old. One is silver and the other gold. -Author unknown
Response to sagesnow (Reply #64)
Prof.Higgins This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cha
(305,574 posts)Response to Cha (Reply #67)
Prof.Higgins This message was self-deleted by its author.
Prof.Higgins
(194 posts)pecosbob
(7,904 posts)Learn to ignore this crap. For example, the phrase "The incoming speaker is getting protested by one of her freshman," was spoken by Paul Ryan, but repeated by tens of thousands of Dems in the last two days. Dems should stop repeating Republican talking points. Be a little critical of who's spewing this bullshit, people.
George II
(67,782 posts)....and incapable of accomplishing such things.
Say it ain't so!