Did a Trump Pardon get enjoined by the 9th circuit court?

[getagrip_already]

I was listening to a news clip of tiny's turkey pardon ceremony and I heard something that caught my ear.

He said something to the effect of "I'm pardoning Pea's and Carrot's, but sadly, the pardon's will probably be enjoined by the 9th circuit. They do that all the time".

First, "enjoined" is not a word he would ever use unless it was seared into his mind. Secondly, there has been a secret ping pong game going on between Muehlers team and the 9th circuit. It is assumed to be about Trump since a judge who worked in the wh counsel's office has recused himself. It is all sealed, so nobody knows exactly what it's about.

And finally, Trump is an idiot. He has no capacity to separate thoughts from mouth. Something put that idea in his head, with specific legal terminology he wouldn't know, and it came out his mouth.

So it is entirely possible Trump tried to pardon somebody, in and among whatever else is going on in that case and the court struck it down. That would be YUUUUGE.

I wish I had a clip of that part of the ceremony, but I couldn't find it.

[exboyfil]

1. I don't see it

All he has to do is have the WH lawyer draw up the papers and sign it. It is not reviewable by a Court.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Proclamation_4311

[hlthe2b]

2. Basically, I agree, though when used to obstruct justice in self-protection, that is open question.

[33taw]

3. I think that the defendant has to have been convicted in order to accept a pardon.

But, I am not positive.

[cbdo2007]

5. That's what I'm thinking, he probably saw some rumor on Fox News and tried

to pardon someone he couldn't pardon because they hadn't been charged yet or something.

[exboyfil]

7. No. See the Nixon pardon which I linked to

I still think it is wrong, and my Government teacher in high school didn't agree with it, but many legal experts think preemptive pardons are legal.

I can't see them asking a judge to review it prior to issuing it. Why would he do that? Only thing would be if someone leaked the paperwork, and a a judge tried to restrain it. Still, the President can issue it at anytime. Whether it will be any good in the long run will be an open question (you know the Fatal Five of the SC - maybe Roberts may want to avoid comparisons to the Taney Court).

[getagrip_already]

10. what I'm thinking...

Muehler clearly has some legal action going on under seal. We can't see the contents, but reporters have been following the filing dates, courts, and judges involved.

If it''s a subpoena fight, Trump may have entered a pardon saying any prosecution or grand jury hearings are moot. They court would then rule on that. Trump would know. We wouldn't.

[tblue37]

13. No. Nixon was pardoned without being charged or convicted. nt

[33taw]

19. Is that current law? Joe Arpaio had to acknowledge guilt in order to accept a pardon from Trump.

I am not sure if he did. I could be mistaken on what transpired.

[getagrip_already]

6. Sure they can....

Pardons can be enjoined if they were issued with corrupt intent. It is also widely accepted (though never tested) that you can't pardon yourself.

If the pardon was claimed in secret court filings we wouldn't know. There is no requirement they be made public.

The pardon you referenced, of nixon, couldn't be enjoined because gerald ford was not a co-conspirator. It fell squarely within the constitution and established case law.

But it is possible for a court to enjoin a pardon, though it will almost certainly end up at scotus.

[exboyfil]

9. But does a pardon go through a judicial review

prior to being issued? I didn't know that was a step. He would have to have had someone at the WH run it over to a Court.

I do understand about your secret pardon though. You may be right, but how can a democracy allow for secret pardons. Our Founding Fathers really screwed up. Pardons should at least be subject the full knowledge of the citizens as they make their decisions regarding governance. This smacks of totalitarianism to the highest degree.

[getagrip_already]

12. no judicial review, but if it was part of legal proceedings....

The court could rule on it. A pardon could also be challenged in court.

[former9thward]

14. Please link to where a "Pardons can be enjoined if they were issued with corrupt intent"

TIA. And an actual pardon not speculation by an internet blogger.

[getagrip_already]

16. here's one....

https://www.nytimes.com/1978/12/20/archives/blanton-defended-in-pardon-dispute-tennessee-attorney-general-asks.html

I believe the pardons sold in this case were eventually nullified.

[former9thward]

18. A President or Governor has absolute pardon power and it can not be reversed.

The pardons in the TN case finally came to an end because the legislature found a way to swear in the new Governor three days early. But the pardons that had been given stood.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1996/11/23/ex-tenn-gov-ray-blanton-dies/3988bcc3-6671-41a8-8e9f-51b5954dca05/?utm_term=.ac19e7bc8237

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Blanton

[cbdo2007]

4. He probably tried to pre-pardon his kids and the judge said

he can't do it.

Or maybe he tried to pardon someone from another country and doesn't understand how the pardons work?

Or maybe he tried to pardon the NY start charges against him.

There are lots of instances where he could have tried to pardon someone or something he can't pardon.

[getagrip_already]

8. I thought of that, but we would know if it were a public filing

This only makes sense if it was part of secret hearings.

[former9thward]

11. Ahh, no

[Whiskeytide]

15. Perhaps Meuller filed a preemptive action ...

... to test it in the jurisdiction of his choosing. He could have sought a restraining order to prevent trump from issuing pardons to cooperating witnesses or to targets, citing natl security issues and an ongoing investigation. He might have even revealed that trump is the target and laid out some of his evidence against him to support the request.

I think it’s unlikely he actually issued pardons without fanfair or leaks. Not this WH’s style. We would likely have heard about it somehow.

[getagrip_already]

17. hadn't thought of that....

interesting.