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Coventina

(26,874 posts)
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 11:30 AM Nov 2018

More anti-painkiller nonsense, and it's punishing my 95 year old grandmother

I'm insanely angry right now.

My 95 year old grandmother just had a minor surgery on her leg to remove a squamous cell.

Because she already suffers from neuropathy in her legs, this has been extremely painful for her.

She is unable to move without weeping in pain.

Changing her bandages is a screaming ordeal.

This is a woman who rarely complains of anything, all her nearly century-long life.

They are only giving her Tylenol 3, one half dose every six hours.

When my dad asked for something stronger, because the Tylenol 3 IS NOT CUTTING IT the doctor said they no longer prescribe anything stronger for "minor surgeries" and that she's just got to tough it out until it heals.

A DOCTOR SAID A 95 YEAR OLD WOMAN HAS TO SUFFER BECAUSE OF THIS STUPID PARANOIA ABOUT PAIN MANAGEMENT!

I hate this fucking country.

On edit: Happy FUCKING Thanksgiving. My grandmother will be at home, because she can't move without weeping.
Yes, we are going to visit.

56 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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More anti-painkiller nonsense, and it's punishing my 95 year old grandmother (Original Post) Coventina Nov 2018 OP
So they won't even give her like a few or a couple...how bout 1 pill? Can you think of anyone who UniteFightBack Nov 2018 #1
Thank you so kindly for the offer. We're in AZ. Coventina Nov 2018 #3
And even more stupid is.. cannabis_flower Nov 2018 #29
What's even more stupid, none of this seems to be helping with the enough Nov 2018 #2
No, the only result is that the people who were getting prescription are now just getting Coventina Nov 2018 #4
Or they are switching to heroin. Hassin Bin Sober Nov 2018 #5
Unfortunately, it is not really the doctors' fault. Stonepounder Nov 2018 #22
Yep, it's not even a solution ck4829 Nov 2018 #25
Re: What's even more stupid, none of this seems to be helping with the Wrz Nov 2018 #26
Cannabis. Check with her cardiologist first. JudyM Nov 2018 #6
Sort of what I was thinking. nt Blue_true Nov 2018 #27
Find another doctor. Liberal In Texas Nov 2018 #7
Yes! I have been through late stage cancer and I have fired a couple doctors along the way. Glimmer of Hope Nov 2018 #13
Look into giving her Elecampane or a Herbal Medicine's product called Lung Tonic to clear the lungs. TheBlackAdder Nov 2018 #8
They have gone way overboard with all this crap Marrah_Goodman Nov 2018 #9
That's just ridiculous and it should be scary to everyone. Vinca Nov 2018 #10
This is terrible! Pain killers are meant for things like this. Glimmer of Hope Nov 2018 #11
The addiction rate after post surgery pain relief is extremely low. Mariana Nov 2018 #19
I saw a scare ad on TV the other day that screamed, "YOU CAN DEVELOP AN OPIOID catbyte Nov 2018 #39
There's an awful lot of dishonesty going on with this opioid thing. Mariana Nov 2018 #41
Andrew Kolodny Crunchy Frog Nov 2018 #49
I figured it was something like that. Thank you. nt. Mariana Nov 2018 #53
Tell your grandmother that an internet stranger is sorry LuckyCharms Nov 2018 #12
Its really amazing how doctors can't seem to think for themselves. aikoaiko Nov 2018 #14
It can be very hard to get a doctor to work with you on medication. Tobin S. Nov 2018 #15
I've offered to get a good pain killer one by one. LakeArenal Nov 2018 #16
Let adults buy whatever they want Wrz Nov 2018 #17
HEAR FREAKING HEAR!!! mr_lebowski Nov 2018 #31
Even more stupid---addiction at age 95so what? kiri Nov 2018 #37
Pain mangement is a central idea in modern surgery kiri Nov 2018 #40
You might try... TeeYiYi Nov 2018 #18
Not excusing the behavior RichardRay Nov 2018 #20
Caution with DIY medicine jmbar2 Nov 2018 #21
There are warnings on the labels saying specifically to not mix with anti depressants. I see that UniteFightBack Nov 2018 #23
Absolutely correct! jmbar2 Nov 2018 #36
If she's okay with Tylenol 3 per the doctor, she's okay with Vicodin or Percocet ... mr_lebowski Nov 2018 #32
Codeine like demerol (mepregan) Sgent Nov 2018 #54
It's actually meperidine, not mepregan ... just a random factoid ... afaik, demerol is never used mr_lebowski Nov 2018 #56
Tragic ck4829 Nov 2018 #24
Is kratom legal in Arizona? uberblonde Nov 2018 #28
It IS, actually ... mr_lebowski Nov 2018 #34
Last summer I dislocated a shoulder, and they gave me opiates. bhikkhu Nov 2018 #30
Everyone reacts differently to injury. Mariana Nov 2018 #43
Codeine doesn't work in everyone Manastash Nov 2018 #33
So you meant to say 'doesn't' ;) mr_lebowski Nov 2018 #35
Ugh yes it doesn't! Manastash Nov 2018 #45
"our wacky culture can't seem to do anything in a nuanced way." Jim__ Nov 2018 #38
At a time when more effective medicine is available to alleviate her pain, it's unconscionable that suffragette Nov 2018 #42
Agreed. I had a friend who had three weeks to live Cetacea Nov 2018 #44
Just wondering... TeeYiYi Nov 2018 #46
Oh you are so kind!!! I am writing to you from her bedside. Coventina Nov 2018 #47
Oh, wow... TeeYiYi Nov 2018 #48
Sounds like they fell down on the job in telling you waht ot watch out for post surgery. Ms. Toad Nov 2018 #52
The U.S. won't listen to experts on addiction: We need treatment for those who become addicted, not lindysalsagal Nov 2018 #50
Poppy seed tea. Crunchy Frog Nov 2018 #51
This is not standard. KentuckyWoman Nov 2018 #55
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
1. So they won't even give her like a few or a couple...how bout 1 pill? Can you think of anyone who
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 11:38 AM
Nov 2018

may have something around they could give you? I have a little stash myself. If you are near Queens NY I'll hook your Grandma up.

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
3. Thank you so kindly for the offer. We're in AZ.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 11:40 AM
Nov 2018

But, you have a good idea.

I'll ask around the family.

I don't have any myself.

enough

(13,237 posts)
2. What's even more stupid, none of this seems to be helping with the
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 11:39 AM
Nov 2018

crisis of opioid abuse.

So sorry this is happening to your grandmother. Where is th compassion in medicine? Is there any chance of consulting another doctor?

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
4. No, the only result is that the people who were getting prescription are now just getting
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 11:41 AM
Nov 2018

them illegally, while people in pain suffer.

I'll ask my dad about seeing another doctor.

Stonepounder

(4,033 posts)
22. Unfortunately, it is not really the doctors' fault.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:23 PM
Nov 2018

The federal restrictions on pain-relief pills are just plain nuts. We were talking to our PCP (what used to be called a GP) and he gets audited almost every month over his prescriptions and can lose his license if he prescribes too many 'pain pills'.

Just as something I never said, head south and find a 'pain clinic' just on the other side of the Rio Grand. Should be fairly easy to find a compassionate doctor there who can give a prescription for what you need. I live in the Cincinnati area and there are folks that make a tidy income driving to Florida, where there are strip malls full of 'pain-management' clinics that will happily write prescriptions for 100 doses of Oxy. Hit 10 or 15 of those, then hit the pharmacies right next door to get the scrip filled, and drive back.

The idea that policing legitimate physicians to try and curb the opioid epidemic is just stupid, when a drug company can ship hundreds of thousands of doses to a single pharmacy in the middle of nowhere and nobody questions it. The drug industry is making WAY too much money off opiods to allow laws to be passed restricting them. So, instead they allow stupid stuff like denying folks who truly need pain relief in the name of 'curbing the epidemic'.

Wrz

(35 posts)
26. Re: What's even more stupid, none of this seems to be helping with the
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:29 PM
Nov 2018

Exactly, in fact this crackdown on Schedule II-V opioids is only making things worse. Opioid addicts that normally maintain their habits with FDA regulated opioids such as Oxycodone, Hydrocodone are basically being forced to resort to using Heroin - and given the stories of Heroin being adulterated with fentanyl (which is FAR more potent) or worse is resulting in a lot more overdoses than if they had continued using pills.

The more they restrict FDA regulated opioids, the more people they push onto using heroin. The most tragic are those who actually need opioids for chronic pain but aren't able to find a doctor in their area willing to give them what they need - and so their choices end up: 1. Being bedridden with 24/7 level 7-10 pain 2. Suicide or 3. Buying heroin. If they are wealthy enough then 4. illegally buying pills off the street or darknet.

The continued enforcement of the Controlled Substance Act does far more damage than drug use disorders do, IMO.

Glimmer of Hope

(5,823 posts)
13. Yes! I have been through late stage cancer and I have fired a couple doctors along the way.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:32 PM
Nov 2018

Skill set and bed side manner vary a great deal.

TheBlackAdder

(28,076 posts)
8. Look into giving her Elecampane or a Herbal Medicine's product called Lung Tonic to clear the lungs.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 11:54 AM
Nov 2018

.

Elecampane is something my family uses to prevent chronic bronchitis. I used to suffer from it 3-4 times a year, requiring Z-PACKs or other strong antibiotics. For the past seven years, my cousins, my kids, and I no longer need antibiotics for lung infections. If my kids would start to feel congested, because something floating around school, they are never out for more than a day, as this is how fast the shit works. If sick, 3 doses per day (30 drops, or single Lung Tonic capsule), Guaifenesin 600 and standard OTC cough medicine are all that's needed. The trick about using couch medicine or Guaifenesin is that you must never skip a dose, even if it's at 2AM. My Army brat ex-sister-in-law clued me into elecampane, saying it's what the French use to fight anthrax. Lung Tonic has elecampane in it, along with several other things, which promote the clearing of the lung from mucous and other fluid buildup.

If she is sedentary, pneumonia is a huge risk factor. I do not believe there are any co-med side effects by taking it, but check with her doctor.

.

Marrah_Goodman

(1,586 posts)
9. They have gone way overboard with all this crap
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:15 PM
Nov 2018

Making people suffer is not helping fix the addicts. It is simply making people suffer needlessly.

My daughter ended up in massive pain after a spinal tap that leaked. They put a blood patch on it but she was still in pain. Took her to another hospital after the pain got too much to handle. She was on a stretcher sobbing in agony. I asked them to give her something and the nurse came back with tylenol 3.

I marched my furious ass up to the ER desk and practically screamed that she was not some damned addict and someone had better help her before I sued the shit out of them. That woke someone up... She ended up in the ICU for a week mostly unconscious on pain medication because the blood patch was injected INTO her spinal fluid instead of outside of it. If I had not been with her she would have been left on that gurney while they assumed she was just another addict.

I recently suffered for 6 weeks with a badly torn muscle in my calf. They refused any pain killers.

This topic really just makes my blood boil.

Vinca

(50,170 posts)
10. That's just ridiculous and it should be scary to everyone.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:26 PM
Nov 2018

I remember when I had neuralgia as a complication of shingles. It was the worst pain I ever imagine could exist. The serious drugs at the ER barely touched it and the few opiate pills prescribed barely made a dent. It terrifies me to think of being in your grandmother's position. I hope your TLC helps her heal quickly. Poor thing.

Glimmer of Hope

(5,823 posts)
11. This is terrible! Pain killers are meant for things like this.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:29 PM
Nov 2018

I told a surgeon I was worried about addiction when he prescribed an opioid and he said not to worry because the addiction rate for post surgery pain is not very high. I am usually given a 7-10 day supply and find that is all I need.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
19. The addiction rate after post surgery pain relief is extremely low.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:00 PM
Nov 2018

It takes time to develop an addiction, longer than 7-10 days.

catbyte

(34,174 posts)
39. I saw a scare ad on TV the other day that screamed, "YOU CAN DEVELOP AN OPIOID
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:18 PM
Nov 2018

Last edited Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:56 PM - Edit history (1)

ADDICTION IN FIVE DAYS!!!"

What a load. I'm getting really sick and tired of this. Like every other half-assed government "War on (fill-in-the-blank), the only people it's hurting are people who legitimately need it and doctors.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
41. There's an awful lot of dishonesty going on with this opioid thing.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:52 PM
Nov 2018

You really have to wonder why we aren't being told the whole story. Some very important things are being left out.

Going on as if taking a week of prescribed Vicodin after surgery or an injury is exactly the same as shooting heroin is one example. No, these things are not the same.

Another example is the fact that for all we hear about the overdose deaths, we're not being told how many of them were due to the narcotic being combined with other drugs. Narcotics and alcohol is a particularly deadly combination, and saying so would probably save some lives, but it's not being said. Why not? How many deaths are from prescriptions and how many from street drugs? Also, is acetominophen toxicity a factor in any of the deaths?

Another thing not being said is the fact that opioid withdrawal isn't really dangerous. It's extremely unpleasant I'm sure, but it's not deadly like withdrawal from alcohol and some other drugs.

Who exactly is working so hard to influence our opinions on this subject and why?



Crunchy Frog

(26,548 posts)
49. Andrew Kolodny
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 07:25 PM
Nov 2018

And he makes alot of money from a chain of rehab centers. I don't know how he managed to attain such an influential voice within the CDC.

LuckyCharms

(17,287 posts)
12. Tell your grandmother that an internet stranger is sorry
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:31 PM
Nov 2018

for her pain, then give her a hug for me.

I'm going through that now, and I've spent the morning complaining about our health care system.

I guess I am getting pain meds ok, but they are not working (either Tylenol 3 or Norco).

My complaint is with fragmented care. My doctors are not talking to each other. I have to make sure I tell each one of them what is going on with my health...and when I do, they either fumble through a pile of paper records or start frantically searching on their laptops saying "Oh really? You saw that doctor? What was his diagnosis?"

The health care system is a fucked up mess. I have no complaints about the doctors...I don't think they are bad people, and I think they genuinely want to help, but they are being forced to work within a system that is useless and unsustainable.

I might have the opposite problem as your grandmother. My doctors almost literally throw pain killers at me. I have to refuse them sometimes, because I don't need 4 doctors prescribing them. What I need is someone to give me a diagnosis.

I hope your grandmother is feeling much better soon.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
14. Its really amazing how doctors can't seem to think for themselves.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:35 PM
Nov 2018

Last edited Thu Nov 22, 2018, 05:32 PM - Edit history (2)

One hopes the policies are developed thoughtfully, but always with the recognition that there need to be exceptions.

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
15. It can be very hard to get a doctor to work with you on medication.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:54 PM
Nov 2018

It took a hospitalization for me to get the message through to my psychiatrist that I was over-medicated. I'd been wanting to reduce the meds for long time, but he wouldn't work with me.

I think many of them think of themselves as being much more qualified to make decisions when it comes to these kinds of things, and then ignore some of the feedback from their patients.

LakeArenal

(28,729 posts)
16. I've offered to get a good pain killer one by one.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:55 PM
Nov 2018

Offered to take blood test each time. Nothing works for me but one type. Nope can’t have it.

Wrz

(35 posts)
17. Let adults buy whatever they want
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:56 PM
Nov 2018

Yeah, this anti-opioid hysteria that's been going on for 2-3 years now is causing a chilling effect for doctors. Even Hydrocodone (Norco, Vicodin, et al) is a Schedule II controlled substance now (same category as cocaine and methamphetamine) so many doctors will flat out refuse to Rx it even when they feel it's medically necessary out of fear of the DEA charging them for overprescribing.

And codeine (Tylenol 3) is just too weak for an adult for pain. IMO, the only time codeine actually helps an adult is if it's used as an antitussive along with promethazine for persistent coughs. Besides that, it's really only approrpriate given its weakness when Rxed for pre-adolescent children.

At least when it concerns ADULTS and drugs I am 100% libertarian. I say let adults buy whatever they want. The only law/regulation should be restrictions on where it can be sold if being sold by a non-pharmacy -- windowless buildings with double door entrances where everyone must show picture ID to prove they are adult to get into the actual building; requiring complete and accurate labelling, no advertising allowed, etc.

Adults should be educated on the dangers of using any habit forming and/or chemically dependence forming drugs (especially given the fact that opioids cause respiratory depression), but ultimately they are adults and it's their bodies. Whether they are using something medicinally or non-medicinally is really their business. The only responsibility on the part of the dispensary or pharmacy is to inform the buyer/patient of the risks and discourage usage of more than is medically necessary.

And for opioids, especially because there's always going to be cases like your grandmother's where their doctors are too spineless to give them the strength of medicine they need to function there should be dispensaries that can sell whatever they want to adults so that there's an alternative for them to get relief when the system breaks down that lets them get a FDA regulated opioid legally without a prescription (as opposed to just writhing in level 7-10 pain 24/7 or playing Russian roulette by buying diamorphine/heroin which is likely laced with fentanyl, carfentanyl, or worse).

The war on drugs is insanity on every level. Humans have been using opioids medicinally and non-medicinally for almost 10,000 years, going back at least as far as ancient Sumer. Only in the early 1900s did the temperance nonsense start to crop up in various forms where adults try to dictate to other adults what substances they may ingest.

At least when ethanol was illegal in the 1920s they made it illegal in the correct way: by passing a constitutional amendment that gave the government such authority. They did not do so with drugs in general. The constitution does not give the feds the authority to 'control' a substance in such a manner that is outlined by the Controlled Substance Act.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
31. HEAR FREAKING HEAR!!!
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:42 PM
Nov 2018

Beautifully said ...

Only problem with this plan is ... a lot people are stupid. And if we did as you suggest, the already bad addiction/OD situation would likely get worse, and there'd be more hysteria, etc.

That said, I still think it's 'worth it', i.e. yours is a better plan overall ... than what we now have.

You should also be able to get methadone and buprenorphine in this way as well, and every dispensary should have FREE counseling to help folks get onto alternatives if they have an addiction problem. It's a LOT easier to live a productive life (not to mention much safer ... almost impossible to OD and die) on Buprenorphine than Oxy (for someone who's just hooked, not a true pain patient I mean) and we need to be doing more to make it easier for people to make that switch, IMHO.

kiri

(786 posts)
37. Even more stupid---addiction at age 95so what?
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:09 PM
Nov 2018

Even more stupid---addiction at age 95==so what?

Addiction has been made a dirty word. In our waning years, so what if we depart peacefully?

kiri

(786 posts)
40. Pain mangement is a central idea in modern surgery
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:35 PM
Nov 2018

Your post is very good.

Pain mangement is a central idea in modern surgery. Reducing pain greatly promotes healing. Improves mental mood, reduces the flood of prostaglandins that impairs healing and recovery.

Addiction means the body/brain needs a chemical in order to be "normal". Sometimes this molecule has undesirable side effects over a period of years. Addiction to needing oxygen, proteins, carbs/glucose, etc. is accepted. Other addictions, nicotine, alcohol, opiods, cannabinoids are labeled as sins and criminal.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
18. You might try...
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 12:56 PM
Nov 2018

...Neosporin + Pain Relief Cream

It's an antibiotic salve with a topical anesthetic in it.

You could ask your pharmacist if it would be ok to use on your grandma.

TYY

RichardRay

(2,611 posts)
20. Not excusing the behavior
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:04 PM
Nov 2018

And I went through several recoveries from surgeries with my mother when she was in her early 90’s. I spent nights in the hospital with her while they figured out her medications. I talked a LOT with the doc’s and nurses about geriatric pain control. ALL meds work differently in the elderly, pain meds in particular. I wouldn’t take advice on medication from a random poster on an Internet politics blog, and I also wouldn’t take the recommendations of a doctor who’s not a geriatric specialist.

Seek another opinion.

jmbar2

(4,832 posts)
21. Caution with DIY medicine
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:11 PM
Nov 2018

I am horrified that your grandmother is going through such pain. However, I would not start giving her stuff without Dr's or pharmacist's knowledge. It could interact with other conditions or medications in ways that you might not anticipate.

I had a bad incident a few years ago taking an over-the-counter cough syrup for the flu while on antidepressants. The two drugs didn't play well together at all and caused severe hallucinations and paranoia until it got out of my system. It was terrifying. Anything you giver her could interact with other meds, or affect her blood pressure, kidneys, etc.

Just find a better doctor ASAP, or take her into the ER if you need to for pain. At that age, it's not DIY. Good luck!

 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
23. There are warnings on the labels saying specifically to not mix with anti depressants. I see that
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:27 PM
Nov 2018

warning is no joke!

jmbar2

(4,832 posts)
36. Absolutely correct!
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:55 PM
Nov 2018

It felt like a psychotic break. Now, I list dextromethorphan as an "allergy" on all medical records. Not to be messed with.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
32. If she's okay with Tylenol 3 per the doctor, she's okay with Vicodin or Percocet ...
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:46 PM
Nov 2018

Not to be making diagnoses here, but they're almost identical drugs (barring an allergy to one of them, which is VERY rare, and more likely to occur with Codeine than Hydro/OxyCodone), just in graduating strengths (Oxy>Hydro>Codeine). Also need to be aware of relative strengths, a 10MG Perc is considerably stronger than a Tylenol 3, so you'd want to half or even 1/4 it at first.

Just MHO.

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
54. Codeine like demerol (mepregan)
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 08:27 PM
Nov 2018

has almost no place in modern outpatient pain management.

It can be useful for some people, but its metabalite is morphine, and its highly variable how much morphine is produced from any amount of codiene. Humans vary process between 10 - 90% of the codine dose into morphine -- thus the drug is 9 x stronger in some people than in others and can vary from mild effect to substantial. hydrocodone or oxycodone are better options.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
56. It's actually meperidine, not mepregan ... just a random factoid ... afaik, demerol is never used
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 09:06 PM
Nov 2018

in an outpatient scenario, it's pretty much exclusively used by injection, so ...

I know of the variability you speak of, though I've never heard a number as high as 9X variability when it comes to codeine ... I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but if it's indeed potentially that high, then obviously, yeah ... that is all the more reason to not give it outpatient.

That said, I'd imagine that if the 95 y.o. lady in question isn't getting any pain relief, then ... she's not 'lucky enough' to have the metabolism to be getting any 'extra strength' out of it, put it like that ...

And even at 9X when you're talking 1/2 of a Tylenol 3, would only be 13.5mg of oral morphine ... which isn't really THAT much ... again, talking orally. Of course, IV, that'd be hefty dose, but oral morphine is vastly less potent, mg per mg.

Anyways ... good day

uberblonde

(1,215 posts)
28. Is kratom legal in Arizona?
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:39 PM
Nov 2018

I'd check out the local head shops. Possibly you can get enough to tide her over.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
34. It IS, actually ...
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:50 PM
Nov 2018

I'm not sure I'd want to give it to 95 year old though, myself. You're getting pretty far away from what was actually Rx'd there ...

Kratom has it's uses/place but I'm not sure this it it. JMHO.

bhikkhu

(10,708 posts)
30. Last summer I dislocated a shoulder, and they gave me opiates.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:41 PM
Nov 2018

I took one waiting for the doctor to get around to putting it back in the socket, and the pain wasn't bad once it was in place; tossed the rest of the little bottle. They still called the next day to see if I wanted a prescription for more, and then checked again on my follow-up visit. I said no. It seems stupidly unbalanced how they deal with things, probably comes down to the individual, the doctor, the hospital. Sorry you got a bad one, and hopefully they can do something.

I'm early 50's, male, working, in a semi-rural area. Prime demographic to get hooked on opiates and have a life destroyed. If I were 95 I'd think that would be less of a concern.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
43. Everyone reacts differently to injury.
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:58 PM
Nov 2018

You didn't have much pain after reduction, but many people do, and they should get adequate pain relief.

Manastash

(36 posts)
33. Codeine doesn't work in everyone
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 01:48 PM
Nov 2018

Last edited Thu Nov 22, 2018, 09:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Codeine the active opiate in Tylenol 3 must be convert morphine by the body. Some do not have the enzyme to convert it and women are more likely to lack the enzyme. I am a clinical pharmacist. She may only be getting just Tylenol. Give her some real drugs! Ugh

Jim__

(14,045 posts)
38. "our wacky culture can't seem to do anything in a nuanced way."
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:10 PM
Nov 2018

From the December 6 issue of the New York Review of Books - Opioid Nation.

An excerpt:

...

The opioid epidemic, while horrifying, is still outweighed by alcohol deaths, which are also increasing, according to the Centers for Disease Control. Hampton writes, “If my first drug of choice came with a prescription, the second one, alcohol, was culturally embedded and used to celebrate at every turn of events.” In 2016, when there were 64,000 deaths in the US from the drug epidemic, there were 90,000 from alcohol (including accidents and homicides caused by inebriated people, as well as direct effects, mainly cirrhosis of the liver). Cigarette smoking is estimated to cause 480,000 deaths a year. I do not intend to minimize the opioid epidemic. Far from it. What I want to underscore is the differences in these three epidemics. Alcohol and cigarettes have no medical or practical uses of any kind. Yet we permit their use if regulated. In contrast, opioids do have medical uses, and they are important.

The opioid epidemic is usually seen as a supply problem. If we can interdict the supply of prescription opioids, the thinking goes, we can stanch the epidemic. But that is unlikely to work for two reasons. First, as I pointed out, this is no longer mainly an epidemic of prescription drugs but of street drugs. And second, it creates an onerous obstacle for doctors and outpatients who require pain treatment. More and more, they have to satisfy regulations expressly designed to restrict access to prescription opioids. Some make sense. For example, it’s reasonable to monitor opioid prescriptions to detect pill mills. It’s also reasonable to flag users who “doctor-shop,” that is, see several doctors at once to try to get multiple doses of opioids.

But other requirements are meant simply to inconvenience both doctors and patients until they give up. For example, in Massachusetts doctors must limit their first-time opioid prescriptions to seven days. That can be more than an inconvenience for ill patients in pain. Macy quotes a letter from a friend with severe back pain from scoliosis. “‘My life is not less important than that of an addict,’ my friend wrote,…explaining that her new practitioner requires her to submit to pill counts, lower-dose prescriptions, and more frequent visits for refills, which increase her out-of-pocket expense.” Even more serious is a new shortage of opioids for injection in cancer centers.

For physicians, who are already weighed down by innumerable bureaucratic requirements, these restrictions present one more hoop to jump through, and many simply won’t do it. Instead, they’ll send the patient away with some Advil and hope it does the trick, even though they know it probably won’t. The regulations are having their intended effect. In Massachusetts, opioid prescribing has decreased by 30 percent. Meanwhile, the epidemic of street drugs continues apace. McGreal raises the possibility that reducing access to prescription opioids might feed the demand for heroin. Macy quotes an addiction specialist who laments that “our wacky culture can’t seem to do anything in a nuanced way.”

...

suffragette

(12,232 posts)
42. At a time when more effective medicine is available to alleviate her pain, it's unconscionable that
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 02:54 PM
Nov 2018

they insist on inadequate treatment.

Cetacea

(7,367 posts)
44. Agreed. I had a friend who had three weeks to live
Thu Nov 22, 2018, 04:05 PM
Nov 2018

I was horrified to learn upon visiting him that they weren't giving him pain killers. I demanded to see his doctor and his doctor told me they didn't want him getting addicted. After some calm yelling from me finally ordered my friend morphine. He died in less than two weeks but at least he hed some relief.

Maine now has a mandatory limit of seven days I believe on inpatients. That's absurd and I expect other states will follow suit.
This hyped up issue needs to be addressed in the new congress.
Sorry about your granddmother.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
46. Just wondering...
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 04:40 PM
Nov 2018

...how your grandmother is doing. Were you able to alleviate some of her pain, by other means?

I've been worrying about her.

TYY

Coventina

(26,874 posts)
47. Oh you are so kind!!! I am writing to you from her bedside.
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 04:48 PM
Nov 2018

We are in the hospital.

She was taken to the emergency room at about midnight last night due to excruciating pain.

It turns out she has cellulitis!!

So, she is still in a lot of pain, but at least she is now getting decent pain medication.
She is OK, except when having to move and when people come in to examine her.

She's on "gorilla" antibiotics, to try to knock out the cellulitis infection.
So now it's waiting and seeing how that goes.

I am so very touched that you have been concerned for her!

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
48. Oh, wow...
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 05:21 PM
Nov 2018

I am so happy to hear that she is being take care of... not just by caring family members but also, finally, by competent medical professionals. Doctors ignore the words of the elderly in this country, and the older they get, the worse it gets. It's criminal that she had to suffer for as long as she did.

Thank you, Coventina, for being such a loving granddaughter and for paying attention to what your grandmother was telling you... and for making sure that she was finally able to get the pain relief she so desperately needed.

TYY

Ms. Toad

(33,915 posts)
52. Sounds like they fell down on the job in telling you waht ot watch out for post surgery.
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 08:11 PM
Nov 2018

The heat, pain, red tissue, and swelling of cellulitis are unmistakable (absent an underliying condition that mimics cellulitis). It's nothing like neuropathy. Even if the family was providing care, like bandaging, when your family complained of excruciating pain they should have been asking quesitons about cellulitis.

That, to me, is a lot more disturbing than not providing pain medication in connection with an operation that Tylenol #3 should have been adequate for, absent complications like cellulitis. Cellulitis can be deadly very quickly - when my daughter had a mimic, she was always moved to the front of the line in the ER (ahead of pretty much anyone who didn't have a compound fracture or life-threatening bleed). It's that serious - so for the medical team to ignore the possibiltiy is a big flag to me.

lindysalsagal

(20,444 posts)
50. The U.S. won't listen to experts on addiction: We need treatment for those who become addicted, not
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 07:31 PM
Nov 2018

just putting the blame on doctors.

This is where politics have too much play in our lives: Spending money on needed treatment programs is political suicide, but blaming doctors, the poor, and using 3-strikes sentencing makes money for politicians and their privateering prison owners.

Crunchy Frog

(26,548 posts)
51. Poppy seed tea.
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 07:55 PM
Nov 2018

The raw materials are completely legal, preparation is easy, and even a very small amount can be astonishingly potent if you are using the right brand of bulk poppy seeds. Not reccing for your grandmother as it can be quite risky, but it's useful information to have nevertheless.

I learned about it after my experience in 2015 with untreated kidney stone pain, and I intend to never be a victim again.

Glad to see that your grandmother is finally getting proper diagnosis, treatment, and pain management. She's very lucky to have you.

KentuckyWoman

(6,666 posts)
55. This is not standard.
Fri Nov 23, 2018, 08:38 PM
Nov 2018

Not even now. Contact the patient rights advocate at the hospital where the surgery was performed and have a conversation. You might also contact her insurance carrier and find out what is needed to move her follow up care to another doctor.

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