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Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:07 PM

Individual 1

“Just ask the axis, he knows everything”
Jimi Hendrix; Bold as Love.


I was surprised yesterday by the Mueller court action involving Michael Cohen. Caught totally off-guard. In fact, I was writing an essay for this forum on a different topic, when the first reports were being carried by CNN and MSNBC. Within minutes, I knew the bit I was working on could wait – I'd write something on Cohen's plea instead. But as more news came in, I recognized that it would take at least a day to seriously consider the full implications.

A day and a half later, I realize that I am still only able to scratch the surface. The more I think about it, the more blown away I am. And it's not just because of the mainstream media reporting ….one of the finest reviews of what this means comes from DU's kentuck. Now, this comes as no surprise, because this forum still has many insightful members who had, years ago, provided similarly high-quality insights on the Plame scandal. Here is a link to kentuck's OP:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11491811

This is outstanding, because kentuck recognizes that Mr. Mueller provided information that serves as the axis for understanding virtually all of the connected parts of what is the largest and most dangerous scandal in our nation's history. Literally everything revolves around this axis, thus making it far more important than a single guilty plea by Cohen.

As tempted to address how it connects to everything else – a topic already covered in detail in David Corn and Michael Isikoff's outstanding book, “Russian Roulette” – I'll focus on two important, related issues. The first has to do with Matthew Whitaker. Recently, when Trump tweeted about Mueller's team yelling at people, a couple people concluded this information came from Whitaker. At the time, I noted that it had come from Jerome Corsi and/or his legal team.

It's not that Whitaker wouldn't report to Trump and his legal team – he would. But he couldn't have had access to this type of information. Likewise, contrary to some folk's fears, he doesn't have copies of the investigators' records to copy and share. It is important to understand how the Justice Department works. More, even as Mr. Rosenstein's supervisor, the attention that Whitaker's appointment has gotten has greatly reduced the chances of him interfering by attempting to limit the case. Things have gone too far. All Whitaker can do without a massive negative reaction is to relay what he hears to Trump.

Now, let's examine the implications of what Mr. Mueller spread upon the table yesterday. And let's do so, by considering what one of my favorite Watergate prosecutors, Jill Wine-Banks, says is important. She spoke briefly about part of this last night on MSNBC, and it is worth serious attention. It has to do with the Articles of Impeachment that were being prepared when Nixon resigned.

I realize that some good people do not believe the republican Senate would find against Trump if the House impeached him. It seems worth keeping an open mind as the process unfolds. Republicans on the Intelligence Committee have shown more interest in this scandal than those on the House committee. And things will be different by March, and very different by June, in ways that are devastating to Trump.

This entire document is worth reading. I want to focus on three of the sections of Article One: parts 3,4, and eight. These have to do with trying to influence witnesses, abuse of information from the Department of Justice, and lying to the public. That third one is important: lying to the public is not a crime, but lying about misdeeds is an impeachable offense.

http://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment


Trump's attempt to build in Moscow may or may not have been a crime. But it did involve national security. And that's what Mr. Mueller's investigation has been about – potential crimes and national security. Yesterday's events uncovered the axis.

Peace,
H2O Man

34 replies, 2118 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply Individual 1 (Original post)
H2O Man Nov 2018 OP
JDC Nov 2018 #1
H2O Man Dec 2018 #12
chillfactor Nov 2018 #2
H2O Man Dec 2018 #13
Haggis for Breakfast Nov 2018 #3
H2O Man Dec 2018 #15
Hoyt Nov 2018 #4
H2O Man Dec 2018 #17
ProudLib72 Nov 2018 #5
H2O Man Dec 2018 #18
coeur_de_lion Dec 2018 #6
H2O Man Dec 2018 #19
coeur_de_lion Dec 2018 #21
H2O Man Dec 2018 #22
murielm99 Dec 2018 #7
H2O Man Dec 2018 #20
yonder Dec 2018 #8
H2O Man Dec 2018 #23
Hekate Dec 2018 #9
H2O Man Dec 2018 #24
Hekate Dec 2018 #10
lunatica Dec 2018 #11
malaise Dec 2018 #14
H2O Man Dec 2018 #26
malaise Dec 2018 #28
H2O Man Dec 2018 #29
malaise Dec 2018 #30
H2O Man Dec 2018 #25
Calista241 Dec 2018 #16
H2O Man Dec 2018 #27
Calista241 Dec 2018 #31
Me. Dec 2018 #32
ms liberty Dec 2018 #33
blugbox Dec 2018 #34

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:18 PM

1. Excellent and well cross ref'ed. Thanks!

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Response to JDC (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:37 AM

12. Thank you.

New reports keep coming in so fast these days!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:18 PM

2. another articulate thought-provoking post H20 Man.....

well done!

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Response to chillfactor (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:37 AM

13. Thanks!

Much appreciated!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:27 PM

3. Every now and then it is really helpful to connect ALL the dots

in this way. I get overwhelmed sometimes by the shear overload of all the details, and what each of them represent. And then I get lost in the minutia. One needs a wall chart with pins and yarn and flags.

Thank you, Professor.

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Response to Haggis for Breakfast (Reply #3)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:42 AM

15. Thanks!

I know that David Corn has been saying for some time that the Trump effort to build in Moscow was the key to understanding the Russian effort to elect Trump. I think that now the public can see that the two efforts are part of one larger conspiracy. I'm impressed at how quickly the Mueller team put the plea agreement with Cohen together, after Trump's legal team submitted the written responses to Mr. Mueller's questions.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:29 PM

4. Excellent. It just takes enough trump supporters to turn on him. He's clearly a security risk, and

is guilty of major obstruction of justice. He’s likely guilty of much worse. His kids have used the office for personal gain for the “trump organization.” He associates with questionable people.

But enough GOPers still support him, such that his actions are tolerated if not condoned.

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #4)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:10 PM

17. My younger son

got together with a man he went to high school with, and the guy's mother, two days ago. Over a meal, the discussion eventually was about politics. The mother and son couldn't understand why my son doesn't like Trump. Each time he would give an example of Trump's behavior, and explain why he found that offensive, they'd respond, "Yeah, but why don't you like him?" My son said it was painful.

Sadly, there are a lot of people who inhabit this low level of understanding. But there are a growing number of people who are realizing that Trump conned them. That all he said during the campaign was a lie. That he is a swamp monster.

There are also a lot of republicans in DC that recognize that hooking their wagon to his isn't going to help them get re-elected come 2020. Some are worried about primary challenges from the alt-right, and not because they can't win the primary, but because of the cost and in-fighting. After what has come out this week, and having an awareness of what 2019 will expose, they will know that their public "support" of Trump will have to end when the cards are put upon the table.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Fri Nov 30, 2018, 11:34 PM

5. Do you suppose the news of the Deutsche Bank being raided

had any bearing on how the Cohen info was released?

Maybe I'm grasping at tinfoil hats here, but it seemed like two big stories dropping in quick succession was more than coincidence. I could go into more detail about my hypothesis here, but I think you can guess the general outline.

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Response to ProudLib72 (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:20 PM

18. Good question.

I don't know the answer to that, and can only speculate. And in speculating, I'd look to a basic model of how investigators and prosecutors destabilize "organized crime." In a sense, it's similar to when an intelligence agency destabilizes another country. It involves the timing of actions, be it raids, round-ups, and/or indictments. And making the best use of time can often involve coordinating with other units.

If it wasn't coordinated, it was a coincidence. And as Malcolm Nance often notes, in these contexts, "coincidence" takes a lot of planning.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 12:05 AM

6. Can you elaborate on this?

And things will be different by March, and very different by June, in ways that are devastating to Trump.


What do you think will be different?

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:42 PM

19. It relates to

my previous answer on here, having to do with timing. Let's think of another model to illustrate this. In a good boxing match, even the best-conditioned fighter -- let's say Floyd Mayweather, Jr. -- fights his hardest for three minutes of every round. Rather, he exerts his energy patiently, when it to his advantage. He breaks his opponent down carefully in a manner that frustrates and tires the opponent. As his opponent tires, the champion begins to apply more pressure, with spurts of high energy. In doing so, he creates openings to inflict damage. This leads to victory.

Mr. Mueller has been engaging with the Trump machine in much the same way, has he not? Every so often, at the time of his choice, he inflicts some damage. The timing, while not as fast as we want, is outstanding. Keep in mind that his team isn't only prosecutors ….there are lots of investigators. And the prosecutors and investigators are engaged in an on-going process, at the pace they pick.

The Cohen bit this week indicates that Mr. Mueller is picking up the pace in terms of connecting the Moscow tower project, and the Russian hacking etc. This was a very large piece of the puzzle that Mr. Mueller laid down this week. I was as surprised as I was glad. Each piece of the puzzle provides a better picture of where he is going. So, by March, a great deal more will be made public. And so much more by June.

I should add that the Democratic House leadership, led by Nancy Pelosi, is doing a heck of a lot more in preparation for committee hearings than is publicly reported. I'm very impressed with that. We are in a very good spot now, because of the Mueller investigation and the Democratic leadership in the House.

Finally, I liked that on CNN, that Jeffrey Toobin said that until this week's events, he was certain Trump would last until the 2020 election ….but now he believes Trump won't survive this term. Mr. Toobin is someone I listen closely to.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 03:12 PM

21. Good analogy I like it. Wearing down his opponent.

What do you think of Mueller's timing as it relates to trump's scheduled meetings with putin?

Twice now it seems like he's dropped bombshells like this a day or two before trump and putin were scheduled to meet.

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Response to coeur_de_lion (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:12 PM

22. I think that,

even more than us, Mr. Mueller understands that this scandal involves crime and national security. Hence, the pattern you are talking about fits -- at least in my humble opinion -- more into national security than the criminal actions. We still don't know, for example, what Trump and Putin discussed in private at Helsinki. That's not good, and can't continue to happen.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:47 AM

7. Thank you for your observations.

I read kentuck's OP three times, because I was so impressed by its intelligence.

Your post as well! K&R.

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Response to murielm99 (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:43 PM

20. Thank you!

Kentuck was right on the money.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 01:49 AM

8. K&R, like automatic by now.

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Response to yonder (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:13 PM

23. Thank you!

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:29 AM

9. I trust you saw Joyce Vance's comment...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211494385


QUOTE: I took this picture this morning after I finished reading the Cohen information & plea agreement because I wanted to make sure I could always remember the moment when it became clear Mueller was preparing to lay down a royal flush.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #9)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:14 PM

24. I had not

seen that until you provided it here! Thank you! I have the utmost respect for Joyce Vance. She is a treasure.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 02:33 AM

10. Forgot to add: Bookmarked

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:48 AM

11. This is why I love DU!

It makes my IQ go up!

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Response to lunatica (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:42 AM

14. Ditto

Great thread WaterMan. Rec

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Response to malaise (Reply #14)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:17 PM

26. Thanks!

I'm glad you like it. I think of you every time there are reports about Roger Stone are on. I know that you are enjoying those!

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:32 PM

28. I am enjoying everything

Including the great blue wave. Most of all I'm enjoying the way the system is surrounding the con and his fellow idiots. Ii can't wait to hear checkmate or you're fired.
I know you're enjoying it because you knew this two-bit Con and his goons were and are out of their depth big time.

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Response to malaise (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:39 PM

29. Right!

This guy is no Teflon Don. He is a common criminal, and he is no doubt splattering his diapers now. His only advantage over any two-bit mob thug from yesterday is that he's in the White House. But he's starting to find out that poses some serious disadvantages, too.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #29)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:41 PM

30. Sadly he thought he could declare himself emperor of the world after

Illegally occupying said WH

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Response to lunatica (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:16 PM

25. Well, thank you!

At a time when Trump is trying to lower the national IQ, DU is a heck of a good place. No question about it.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 10:43 AM

16. Acting AG Whitaker was briefed by Mueller's team in advance of the plea.

Depending on when this briefing happened, it may very well have been communicated to Trump's team ahead of his document submission to Mueller's team.

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Response to Calista241 (Reply #16)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 04:23 PM

27. Right.

The thing is, though, that he was informed the afternoon before Mr. Mueller's team filed it in court. No doubt that he told the White House immediately. They were reportedly caught off-guard.

Mr. Mueller did not begin to take action on this particular filing until after Trump's team delivered his written answers. This raises the possibility -- perhaps probability -- that Trump was not honest with his legal team about the Moscow plan. As was widely known, and later documented in Bob Woodward's book "Fear," Trump's first legal team grew tired of his constantly lying to them.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #27)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 05:40 PM

31. NPR has changed their reporting on Jr.

NPR is now saying he didn't, in fact, lie to Congress in regards to this. I cannot see Trump Sr's lawyers not taking everything everyone said to Congress into account when Trump completed his questionnaire. Rudy is kind of a doofus, but Emmett Flood is a rock star lawyer, and this would not escape his notice.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:30 PM

32. KR

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 06:53 PM

33. K&R. Excellent analysis, as usual. Interesting times. n/t

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Dec 1, 2018, 07:12 PM

34. Now THAT is some high quality H2O...

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