Not impeaching Trump would make a complete mockery of the rule of law and ruin our country.

[shockey80]

Waiting to remove Trump by voting him out in 2020 would normalize everything he has done. He must pay a bigger price than just being voted out of office.

Nixons lies to the people were part of his articles of impeachment. Trump has lied thousands of times. Nixon did far less than Trump. Impeachable offenses include things that are crimes and things that are not crimes, like lying to the American people. Not all lies are impeachable, some are. Lying about an attack on America is an impeachable offense. Lying about an investigation that you are part of is impeachable. Lying about a murder is an impeachable offense.

Trump is guilty of obstruction of justice. He is guilty of conspiracy. How do we know? We watched it happen. Trump may guilty of many more crimes.

If Trump is not impeached for all his crimes and non crimes, that will open the door for future fucking assholes to do the same thing. Lying on twitter will become normal. Obstructing Justice will become normal. I do not want this to become normal, fuck that.

Trump must be impeached so this never happens again. A message must be sent. After he is impeached new laws must be passed. Trump has taught us we need better laws to protect us from fucking assholes.

[Fiendish Thingy]

1. K&r!

Impeachment doesn’t have to happen on day one of the new congress, but it must be “on the table”, and should be in process by the time the primaries start.

[olegramps]

39. I want to wait and see what Mueller produces.

Also do we want the House spending time on this and then having the Senate not vote for removal?

[Fiendish Thingy]

45. Absolutely!

Certainly waiting for Meuller’s final report is strategically desirable, and Schoff and other can conduct investigations in the meantime.

If Mueller doesn’t release report, or it’s suppressed, then I think impeachment hearing should begin by this time next year, regardless of the senate.

Impeachment is the right thing to do to confront Trump and preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution, period.

[WA-03 Democrat]

2. If we don't what's to stop someone in the future

Without the law we would have chaos. Justice must prevail.

[Garrett78]

3. It'd say the president can do anything the president wants to do, the president is above the law.

A very dangerous precedent. Beyond dangerous.

If Republicans in the Senate refuse to convict, that's on them.

[Jake Stern]

8. "If Republicans in the Senate refuse to convict, that's on them."

Don't see Joe Manchin or Doug Jones voting to convict either, especially with Jones gearing up to fight for his seat in a deep red state.

[Garrett78]

12. That may depend on what exactly comes of the Special Counsel investigation.

[WillowTree]

4. What does impeachment accomplish without conviction in the Senate?

[Sugarcoated]

14. It puts it in the historical record, it's standing up to the law breaker

and standing up for what's right. The hearings will show all Americans what this traitor did and put on the record Congresspeople who stand up to it and those who enable it. It also activates and initiates the public to assemble and put pressure on legislators to do the right thing.

[elocs]

18. Standing up to the lawbreaker?

You mean like the Republican House did with Bill Clinton?

[Sugarcoated]

23. All of the crimes Trump has committed

vs a lie about an affair with an intern? You can't even compare the two.

[onenote]

21. I see no benefit to the historical record showing that he was acquitted.

Yes, it would be an acquittal along partisan lines. Just as his impeachment by the House would be largely along political lines. The Clinton impeachment did significant damage to the impeachment concept. Unless there is such overwhelming evidence as to support a bipartisan impeachment and conviction, its a bad idea.

That being said, once the Mueller report is out, and depending on what it finds, that would be the time to decide whether the House Judiciary committee should convene an impeachment inquiry.

[Sugarcoated]

28. It's about right and wrong.

The American people will hold Democrats accountable in the voting booth if they don't do the right thing and they will deserve it.

[onenote]

29. You give "the American people" more credit than they generally show they deserve.

[Sugarcoated]

31. A majority of Americans voted against Trump

and even more are outraged by his corruption and indecency.

[onenote]

33. Is there a reliable poll showing a majority of the American people support impeachment at this time?

Not saying there isn't, but I haven't seen it. Even polls that show that a solid majority of the public has an unfavorable view of Trump don't necessarily show that opposition as translating into support for impeachment.

[Sugarcoated]

37. I don't know

but when they see what he's done, when we hold those hearings and connect the dots, then Mueller's report...

[diva77]

22. +1,000,000 This! This is where the media acts as "fourth estate" - if branches of gov't are at a

standstill, the media, as corporate and wingnutty as it is, will still have to inform the public who will then pressure the legislators to act. Even if legislators fail to act, it will be in the record.

What a travesty it is that Dubya/Cheney were never on the record as having been impeached even if the votes weren't there.

[Sugarcoated]

32. Yes, political calculations should not be the main decider

however, not holding this monster accountable, that NO ONE is above the law, if Democrats don't do the right thing, it will once again prove that all the politicians are liars and crooks. We have to have the courage of our convictions, stand up and do what's right!

[Garrett78]

15. It accomplishes doing what's right, what is legally called for.

To not impeach because Republicans are too corrupt to convict only exacerbates matters. Make Republicans defend a criminal.

[diva77]

25. Exactly. A website listing Trump's impeachable offenses is having trouble keeping up. That's

how outrageous things are:

https://www.needtoimpeach.com/impeachable-offenses/

[paulkienitz]

58. What it accomplishes is to establish that the law comes first and partisan expediency comes after.

To skip a clearly necessary impeachment because it might be unpopular or because it might be obstructed is to give a green light to all future criminal presidents who happen to have a senate majority.

[WillowTree]

61. And then he's acquitted in the Senate.......aka declared "Not guilty". Wonderful optics.

[Sugarcoated]

67. Letting him be above the law

is wonderful optics also

[dansolo]

68. He can be convicted after he is out of office

Why do people act as if impeachment is the only option against Trump? When he is out of office, he no longer has any presumed protections of the Presidency. He can still be indicted and convicted then.

I'd rather the House pass mutiple bills that would benefit everyone and have Senate block them or Trump veto them. If we want to win in 2020, we need to demonstrate how Congress is supposed to act.

[Sugarcoated]

72. Not holding Trump accountable

makes Democrats look almost as bad. They can and will put bills on his desk while conducting oversight. It's about right and wrong to Americans, at least the ones who don't watch #rightwingfakenews

[Renew Deal]

5. I lean towards this point of you.

I think "forgetting about" the Bush years was probably not the best thing. It might have been the best for Obama and the Democratic party, but taking our medicine when it came to Bush might have prevented further misdeeds by Trump and others.

[Jake Stern]

6. Want trump impeached as much as anyone else

BUT the votes in the Senate to convict just aren't there

If the House impeaches and the Senate fails to convict then it will have a twofold effect:

- Trump will look vindicated and stronger. This will almost certainly help propel him to victory in 2020

- Dems will look petty and vindictive causing many of those suburban on-the-fencers who helped put us over the top in the midterms to swing back into the trump camp

Not worth the risk of being cast back into the political wilderness so we can look principled.

[Andy823]

10. I agree

We need to wait till Muller is finished, and releases his findings. If the facts show he should be impeached, and republicans in the Senate are forced to take a side, then go for it. Till then Democrats need to start going after all the corruption trump has brought to the table, along with those in his cabinet who have been bilking the American taxpayers.

[Tarheel_Dem]

13. Agreed! Impeachment, without a remote possibility of conviction would only strengthen Trump, and...

backfire on Democrats. Bill Clinton's poll numbers soared during and after impeachment, and it was because NPP voters deplore overturning an election by impeachment, and they take out their anger on the party who initiated it.

[Jake Stern]

43. Not just Clinton

Look at how the failed recall effort strengthened and emboldened Walker and the Republicans in Wisconsin. Walker got more votes in the recall than he did during the general in part because he successfully portrayed it as a case of sour grapes on the part of Dems.

[Garrett78]

17. This isn't a case of someone lying about an affair. This is a case of the most criminal president...

...in US history. I don't think it's Democrats who would suffer blowback.

How convenient for Republicans to be so corrupt that we're afraid to hold them accountable for their corruption.

[elocs]

20. Impeachment would make a martyr out of Trump in the eyes of his base

and get them fired up without need.

So a question would be, is it worth possibly losing the presidency in order to impeach Trump? Would your doing the moral thing be worth that risk?

If the Democrats do not impeach Trump, what will you do then?
Pout and be mad and indignant and threaten not to vote for the Democratic candidate? Because that only helps Trump.

[Duppers]

53. I'll take that risk gladly. There's also a big odds

That it would gather support behind Dems.

[H2O Man]

7. Recommended!

I agree 100%. Thank you.

[DownriverDem]

9. Won't be gone though

Some thoughts: Nixon resigned after he was told that he would be impeached. I understand how you feel about impeachment. More than anything I would not just want him impeached. I want him gone. However the Senate will never try trump even if he is impeached. (Just like President Clinton). I have seen where it would be better to have trump stay in office and run against him. What I really want is for the repubs in the Senate to finally see all trump's deeds and agree to try trump.

[Paladin]

11. Agreed. Our timidity about impeachment is going to bite us in the ass.

Evidence of trump's law-breaking is at grotesque, mind-boggling levels at this point. Sitting on our butts and whining about what a Republican-majority Senate might or might not do makes us look weak and ineffective---and all it does is encourage trump and his goon followers. Enough! Start laying the groundwork right now for action, based on what monstrosities the Mueller report is sure to confirm.

[dalton99a]

75. +1. "Hey, we know he's guilty, but we don't know if the jury is going to convict or not,

so let's not bring any charges"

[Paladin]

81. That's a beautiful summary of it. Mind if I use it in the future? (nt)

[dalton99a]

82. Please do.

[Sugarcoated]

16. This isn't about politics

it's about RIGHT AND WRONG. I agree, we must hold The Traitor accountable for all the reasons you stated.

[joc46224]

19. My favorite fantasy is....

Both Trump and Pence forced to resign due to Mueller findings, Nancy Pelosi becomes President as 3rd in line and chooses Hillary as her VP.

LOL, I said it was a fantasy---I know it's extremely unlikely. But I think it would be Karma at it's finest. OMG...would love to see the right-wingers heads explode with a President Pelosi and VP Clinton...

[Garrett78]

24. The argument against impeachment is that we won't get a conviction.

In other words, Republicans are so corrupt that we must not hold them accountable for their corruption. How convenient for them.

And somehow the most criminal president in US history is the same as a president who lied about having an affair.

It's absolutely wacky.

[Jake Stern]

41. Think it's wacky all you want

But that doesn't change the fact that the jury is stacked in Trump's favor. Yes, this is akin to having a jury full of mafiosi trying a mobster and it sucks but I'm not down for giving Trump and the Trump friendly media an excuse to rub his "vindication" in our faces as he coasts to victory in 2020.

[Garrett78]

48. I don't agree with the assumption that it's Democrats who would suffer blowback.

[lpbk2713]

26. It would be admitting this is the kind of leadership we deserve.

Letting Trump continue on would be the same as saying we don't deserve any better.

[Equinox Moon]

27. I'm pretty sure congress can impeach, run committees and pass new legislation

all at the same time.

I agree with the poster on impeachment. Trump is a disaster and needs to be stopped!

[sarisataka]

30. What new laws

Will we need after impeachment?

[elmac]

34. He should be impeached ASAP but after the investigation is completed

and the Senate would never prosecute the impeachment but at least it will be on the books.

[Perseus]

35. I don't think we want Pence or Ryan to become president

Unless Muller has the goods on Pence and Ryan, although it would be Pelosi come January, but definitely not Pence in the presidency.

trump will be indicted once he is out of the presidency, he will go to jail and I for one, can wait for that.

[matt819]

36. This about sums things up

[DFW]

38. Since we all know the outcome of the Senate trial if the House impeaches

There is really only one question to ask:

Is it worth the risk? On the one hand, the House WILL vote to impeach if Judiciary wants to do it, and Jerry was one of the indignant Democrats on the buses to the White House 20 years ago. Jerry is not a vengeful sort, but the taste of payback might be too seductive to resist. So we get to embarrass Trump with being only the third president to be impeached, we say to the world, "we see significant wrongdoing that calls for an impeachment trial on grounds far more serious than the ones the Republicans used on Bill Clinton." That's the upside we know of.

The downside we KNOW of is purely that the Republican-dominated Senate will NEVER vote with a two thirds majority to convict and remove Trump from office--AND---Trump will brag and crow and do the happy dance and shove it our faces for the rest of the time he remains in office after an impeachment attempt to get rid of him.

The part we don't know, and therefore would be risking: would this be like an American invasion of Iran would be to the Iranians? I.e., would this energize and fire up his dwindling base so dramatically that a re-election drive now practically with a guarantee by LLoyd's of London to fail could suddenly spring up to the point where he could conceivably inspire his backers to stage his re-election? And burn cars, houses and "libbrul" places of business if that fails? His MAGGOTS might not be content just to paint swastikas on Jewish grave markers any more. Mitch McTurtle would just sit back, smirk and enjoy the show.

If there is something more productive our House majority can do, then they should do that instead. Subpoena everybody and hold investigations right and left, but about things that REALLY happened--not chase Grimm's Fairy Tales like Chaffetz and Gowdy. Keep their hands tied behind their back for two years, remind them of what it was like for us. We won't even make them learn to spell the names of Libyan port cities, or where they can be found on a map. The worst they may have to do is read a few words written in the Cyrillic alphabet--but being Republicans, I'm sure most of them can do that already.

[YessirAtsaFact]

40. All of this is premature and things can change

It wasn’t a given that Nixon would be impeached early in the process.

The people were given a ton of information by the Washington Post as well as the open Senate hearings.

After enough information was made public, the unlikely became inevitable.

[harumph]

42. I think we need to be prepared for his resignation prior to impeachment.

Although I agree with all the sentiments expressed upthread,
I think there's no coming back from this. What we've learned is that what
we took to be law - was in many cases a "gentleman's agreement" or
there was no practical way to enforce the law - or where there was a way,
there was no will. The problem is this: the base of the republicans is on the
short end of the demographic stick and they feel it's imperative for them
to get all they can NOW while they still can. Basically, they're feathering their nests -
that's it - no greater goals - no public service - that's for 'suckers."
That's why they're going for broke in NC and WI.

And, compassionate conservatism is just lipstick on a pig (always was).

[AlexSFCA]

44. I agree; he must be impeached

to help protect integrity of the house and put elected officials on record. If Mueller comes out with serious crime charges, they can’t just be ignored. It doesn’t matter what senate does. Impeachmenet proceedings will make all his crimes public and will force witnesses to testify under oath. It will surely help to diminish his chances for 2020 reelection and will also further damage gop as they get dragged into this.

[mwooldri]

46. He needs to be indicted first.

Though there is a policy that sitting presidents are not indicted, it would be easier for Robert Mueller to indicte Mr. Trump instead. It would also be a Democratic "wet dream" if Mike Pence was indicted at the same time.

[tandem5]

47. Impeaching Trump only to have the Senate exonerate him is just as much a farce.

The Republicans in the 90s politicized the impeachment process because they had no intention of removing Clinton from office. Unless it's impeachment and removal, the process will be seen as nothing more than a normalized partisan action that has the effect of closing the book on Trump's crimes.

[BamaRefugee]

50. I don't agree. It pretty much ruins the impeached person forever, and I have no problem doing that

to tRump.

[Tarheel_Dem]

73. Impeachment didn't ruin Bill Clinton, it increased his popularity. So your premise is wrong. nt

[Sugarcoated]

74. Because the case against him was transparently partisan

Trump's corruption is massive.

[Tarheel_Dem]

77. So you say. Having witnessed the Clinton impeachment up close & personal,

a long, drawn out impeachment process takes more of a toll on the impeachers than the impeached. Besides that, we're way more partisan today than we were back then, so I don't buy the "transparently partisan" argument. The people who swing elections from one cycle to another, aka Independents, hate having elections overturned through impeachment. Everyone thought the recall election of Scott Walker was a great idea, until the voters had their say. That, like the Clinton impeachment, was an eye opener.

[Sugarcoated]

83. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

[BamaRefugee]

49. THE FIX IS ALREADY IN. I watched Jerry Nadler, on THE LAST WORD, say that impeachment would...

"TEAR THE COUNTRY APART". I almost choked and watched Lawrence react by trying as hard as he could NOT to have his eyes pop out of his head, and he could barely restrain the anger in his voice when he replied to Nadler, saying " We've had 2 modern impeachments and they DIDN'T tear the country apart!".

Dems are gonna cave, and that, just like 2008, will be the breath of life once again for a Republican party lying in ashes, only to come to re-animate again, WORSE THAN EVER.

[Jake Stern]

59. You know why they're going to cave?

Because they're smart enough see the writing on the wall and realize that it's a huge gamble with odds that are just not in our favor at this time.

Don't want to see Trump and the GOP doing the mother of all victory laps after he's acquitted by the Senate and embarks on his "vindication" rally tour while gliding to victory in 2020.

Let the investigators do their thing and gather the solid evidence. If we start impeaching right out the gate it can easily be perceived as a political hit.

The last thing we need to do is to push those conservative leaning independents that helped us get over the top in November right back onto the Trump Train by looking petty and vindictive.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. Agreed!! Fucking lather, rinse, repeat....... nt

[Ponietz]

51. Impeachment will put enormous pressure on the 22 Puke Senators

who are up for reelection in 2020. We can put vise-like pressure on them and flip the Senate if they refuse to convict. AND it will lay the groundwork for a massive RICO case against the GOP and the NRA. This is a must-do. 1/1/19 is the time to act! The infection must be excised. If it cannot be, then there is no point to any of our efforts.

[Duppers]

54. +1,000,000!

[Sunsky]

80. My thoughts exactly

[cstanleytech]

52. Impeaching is not the issue its getting the Senate to convict after that is the issue

and frankly I do not see a realistic means of getting enough Repugnant Trump water carriers in the Senate to vote to convict considering how hard they have worked to protect him.

[sagetea]

55. K & R

Exactly!! Not to mention what little standing left we have in the world! Also, it will leave the door open for more treasonous pricks!


sage

[Martin Eden]

56. If HIGH CRIMES deserving of impeachment are exposed, then the House should IMPEACH

It's a matter of DUTY in upholding the rule of law and ethical standards. Accountability is an essential measure to deter future crimes.

It is of course a political act, and as such the evidence must be sufficient to make a compelling case before the public that Congress is indeed doing what our nation's Founders had in mind when they included provisions for impeachment in our Constitution.

Then, when it goes to the Senate, the politics will be framed as to whether or not Republican Senators are willing to put their country before the head of their party.

[Joe941]

57. Thanks you.

[LBM20]

60. You need 2/3 of the Senate and overwhelming evidence of high crimes. It's not simple.

[meadowlander]

62. Let justice be done, though the heavens fall.

[rwsanders]

63. Same should have applied to...

Nixon
Reagan
Bush
Bush
Even if the proceedings had to take place after they left office. At least it would have stripped them of the title, the prestige, and the benefits. It might mean that we wouldn't have to work so hard to fight the right-wing echo chamber.

[Initech]

64. Honestly I think it's more fun watching him squirm.

He knows that he's fucked. But any attempt at impeachment would practically cement him for another 4 years and erase the blue wave. Honestly as much as it sucks that he's the president, he's been the best thing to happen to us in years.

Getting rid of these morons is like stealing from a vending machine. You can't tip it over on the first try. You have to rock it back and forth a few times, then it goes over. And I think that if we keep doing what we are doing, we will tip this thing over.

[EleanorR]

66. It's REPUBLICANS who have made a complete mockery of the rule of law and ruined our country

While the Dems have tried to save it by passing legislation like the Affordable Care Act.

[MichMary]

69. Articles of Impeachment against RMN

were abuse of power, obstruction of justice, and contempt of Congress. Lying to the American people was not included in the Articles of Impeachment.

If lying to the American people was an impeachable offense then every president since George Washington would have been subject to impeachment, since every one of them has lied at one time or another. Every. Single. One.

[kentuck]

70. The question will finally be answered.

Are we a nation of laws or are we a nation of men?

[Nitram]

71. Don't jump the gun. Let Mueller do his work. If the report is as powerful as we expect it to be,

enough Repubs will support impeachment to get the job done. Otherwise, it will die in the /Senate.

[Trumpocalypse]

76. He can be prosecuted after being voted out of office

Impeachment without being found guilty in the Senate would legitimize his actions and ensure his re-election.

[Oneironaut]

78. True, but we need to strike when the moment is right.

I wouldn't see any harm in waiting for more evidence, or for the Mueller investigation to conclude. We also need some Republicans on our side,if possible. I have the feeling even worse stuff is about to come out. Stuff that amounts to treason.

[Sunsky]

79. Well said nt