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Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:34 PM Dec 2018

What 20 (or more) GOP Senators will vote to remove Trump from office?

In an impeachment, 67 votes are required in the Senate to find Trump guilty and remove him from office. Democrat only hold 47 seats in the new Senate. So who are the 20 GOP Senators that will break with their party and vote to convict Trump? Please provide a list of specific names. Thanks.

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What 20 (or more) GOP Senators will vote to remove Trump from office? (Original Post) Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 OP
Groan. OnDoutside Dec 2018 #1
Yes Reality makes some groan. nt Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #2
How about you lead off with your list ? Y'know, pour encouragez les autres. OnDoutside Dec 2018 #3
...s'il vous plait. jberryhill Dec 2018 #6
Et apres, moelleaux au chocolat....yum OnDoutside Dec 2018 #8
That's the point. Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #7
Not "who they are" but "who they will turn out to be" jberryhill Dec 2018 #12
And you really think there are 20 Republicans who Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #14
When the time comes, it won't even require integrity jberryhill Dec 2018 #15
Dude, you've got a fucked up dog! nt Codeine Dec 2018 #22
Yeah, but... jberryhill Dec 2018 #27
Fear? Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #32
I have no possible candidates but I imagine it would take ones who are intelligent enough to see the alwaysinasnit Dec 2018 #4
This is my problem as well. Can't think of one GOPer that fits the bill, today. susanna Dec 2018 #120
Thanks for posting the link. I will check it out. alwaysinasnit Dec 2018 #125
Zero of them. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #5
With out 67 votes in the Senate it is a useless exercise Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #9
No it would not be useless. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #47
With out a conviction Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #48
Nope. The evidence would be public. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #49
That doesn't require an impeachment dansolo Dec 2018 #52
Regular hearings can be obstructed. Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #57
And a GOP majority in the Senate can Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #58
No - an impeachment investigation in the House Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #75
Yes have hearings in the House for the next year Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #82
You're absolutely right on this. Impeachment should be the 1st order of business. InAbLuEsTaTe Dec 2018 #110
Why would he win? treestar Dec 2018 #51
Yes Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #59
but won't the Dems be called weak treestar Dec 2018 #71
By whom? Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #74
If it's to happen, it will involve at-risk Senators up for re-election . . . Journeyman Dec 2018 #10
There are only 21 GOP Senators up for re-election in 2020 Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #13
And how many up in 2022, who will be looking beyond the 2020 election? . . . Journeyman Dec 2018 #20
By 22 it will be forgotten. Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #34
Get them on the record. Let them try to defend their acquittal votes. scheming daemons Dec 2018 #80
And what good is that if Trump wins re-election Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #83
Totally clears the President. Thank you! XRubicon Dec 2018 #11
Arlen Specter, Howard Baker, Pete Dominici, Jim Jeffords Bleacher Creature Dec 2018 #16
Metzenbaum was not a Republican Polybius Dec 2018 #30
Sorry, you're right. I was thinking Baker and wrote Metzenbaum. Bleacher Creature Dec 2018 #31
No problem Polybius Dec 2018 #33
Good one. Bleacher Creature Dec 2018 #39
Let's Face It, There Aren't 20 Republican Senators with the Ethics to Vote for Impeachment dlk Dec 2018 #17
Almost all GOPers will encourage trump to resign when trump supporters Hoyt Dec 2018 #18
Yes that's the key FakeNoose Dec 2018 #100
I'll start Sedona Dec 2018 #19
Kennedy is another possibe vote. Even someone like Ernst. It really comes down to the evidence... Tom Rinaldo Dec 2018 #29
Joni enid602 Dec 2018 #37
Not terribly familiar with Kennedy TheFarseer Dec 2018 #63
Based on what? Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #35
Just my hunch, nothing more. Sedona Dec 2018 #38
Just getting 10 Republicans will make Trump look bad and other Republicans look like they are puttin Quixote1818 Dec 2018 #44
could pence cast a deciding vote to make himself president, Liberty Belle Dec 2018 #55
If there is real evidence of Sgent Dec 2018 #64
Impeachment is not a useless exercise. strongermessage Dec 2018 #21
+1000. Plus, it allows for investigations, hearings, testimony, and unearthing 45's business secrets lindysalsagal Dec 2018 #23
It is.... Xolodno Dec 2018 #106
if the evidence is tight enough the vote to remove will be in the 80s 0rganism Dec 2018 #24
You really think GOP Senators has that much integrity? Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #36
don't know if i'd call it "integrity", per se 0rganism Dec 2018 #41
The evidence about climate change is increasingly irrefutable Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #42
"they" are a fading minority segment of the population 0rganism Dec 2018 #45
They still control the Senate Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #46
Zero as of today. No sense to predict a what if scenario beachbum bob Dec 2018 #25
Lamar Alexander- he's very old and likely not running- plus he's in Howard Baker's seat redstateblues Dec 2018 #26
So here is how it could work. Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2018 #28
None of them. roamer65 Dec 2018 #40
Susan Collins - on twenty COLGATE4 Dec 2018 #43
IMO this skips over the fact that by the end of the hearings treestar Dec 2018 #50
You're making the assumption Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #60
why not? treestar Dec 2018 #69
If they had any integrity or honor Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #73
Because if they did Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #113
This doesn't require any integrity YessirAtsaFact Dec 2018 #109
Your making the assumption that Sgent Dec 2018 #65
Good point Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #68
Wouldn't there be tremendous pressure on him? treestar Dec 2018 #70
Maybe The OP Author's Question is Premature - Maybe There are More Important Questions to Start With DDySiegs Dec 2018 #53
You put too much faith in Republicans Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #61
Impeachment is a pointless exercise, no way the senate will convict. JustABozoOnThisBus Dec 2018 #54
Exactly Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #62
Could not disagree with you more hueymahl Dec 2018 #89
How many will be indicted for their crimes? That's an unknown. shraby Dec 2018 #56
Susan Collins will express concern Retrograde Dec 2018 #66
They will take that dare Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #67
They won't remove him, I honestly think we'll be stuck with him until 2020. Luciferous Dec 2018 #72
Irrelevant, fatalistic question hueymahl Dec 2018 #76
There will never be 20 GOP votes in the Senate. Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #84
Doesn't matter hueymahl Dec 2018 #87
The point is Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #90
And that is where you and I disagree hueymahl Dec 2018 #93
It is useless Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #95
Like I said, that is where we disagree hueymahl Dec 2018 #96
It will Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #98
You seem to be stuck on the idea that impeachment means a Trump win. Qutzupalotl Dec 2018 #108
No I'm basing on the actions and additudes of GOP Senators Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #112
We should definitely wait for Mueller to report or finish Qutzupalotl Dec 2018 #116
No it enrages the left Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #117
That depends on what Mueller finds, doesn't it? Qutzupalotl Dec 2018 #118
Maybe Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #119
I didn't say everyone, and we don't need everyone. Qutzupalotl Dec 2018 #121
True Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #122
True, and I'm not. Qutzupalotl Dec 2018 #123
Wait for the Mueller Report. They can avoid taking this seriously until then. PubliusEnigma Dec 2018 #77
The 1st 20 who don't want this jammed up their nose: Ponietz Dec 2018 #78
Do you really think they care? Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #85
Perhaps a couple but, on the whole, I think they are rats infected with greed and hate. Ponietz Dec 2018 #99
I agree Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #104
22 Republican Senators are up or re-election in 2020. Get them on the record. scheming daemons Dec 2018 #79
Most are in deep red states Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #86
We thought Arizona was a deep red state a few short years ago. scheming daemons Dec 2018 #92
But not all Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #94
What is the relevant point of asking for prophecy? Thanks. LanternWaste Dec 2018 #81
LOL hueymahl Dec 2018 #88
The point is Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #91
The Ambitious, the Pontificant, or Both JCMach1 Dec 2018 #97
And the rationale Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #102
Ambition cleans even the brownest of noses JCMach1 Dec 2018 #111
Maybe Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #114
0% orangecrush Dec 2018 #101
You will need 21, Joe Manchin won't vote for it. nt doc03 Dec 2018 #103
Good point Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #105
It will be closer to +40 aeromanKC Dec 2018 #107
In a perfect world yes Trumpocalypse Dec 2018 #115
It's not going to happen until more comes out during 2019 NewJeffCT Dec 2018 #124
Currently, none. WeekiWater Dec 2018 #126
 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
7. That's the point.
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:41 PM
Dec 2018

I know of none. But some think that 20 will have a 'come to Jesus' moment and vote to convict. I'm wonder who those 20 are.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
12. Not "who they are" but "who they will turn out to be"
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:46 PM
Dec 2018

There are a lot more shoes to drop, and hearings will bring that to light.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
15. When the time comes, it won't even require integrity
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:50 PM
Dec 2018

It will simply require fear.

Fear of the consequences of NOT doing the right thing.

Fear of the devil. Fear for their immortal souls.

Yes there will always be some for whom recognizing the practical necessity of their own moral redemption is like getting your dog to like Van Gogh. You can’t stop your dog from eating the crotch out of your underpants, but you still can make em feel guilty for doing it.

alwaysinasnit

(5,065 posts)
4. I have no possible candidates but I imagine it would take ones who are intelligent enough to see the
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:39 PM
Dec 2018

writing on the wall and who have a smidgen of integrity left. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anyone who might fit that description.

susanna

(5,231 posts)
120. This is my problem as well. Can't think of one GOPer that fits the bill, today.
Tue Dec 11, 2018, 03:35 AM
Dec 2018

The OP's original question reminded me of an SNL skit about a 'TBD' Republican who could change things...from back in early 2017(!).

https://www.thedailybeast.com/snl-trolls-spineless-republicans-who-wont-stand-up-to-trump-in-the-tbd-story

Scroll down a bit, the video is still there at last check (tonight).

This skit couldn't be truthier (props to Mr. Colbert).

Voltaire2

(13,009 posts)
5. Zero of them.
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:40 PM
Dec 2018

But impeachment is an investigation that cannot be obstructed or pardoned away. Regardless of the outcome in the senate, the house is going to have to do this.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
9. With out 67 votes in the Senate it is a useless exercise
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:43 PM
Dec 2018

that will help re-elect Trump in 2020. What is more important, making the point or getting Trump out of office as soon as possible?

Voltaire2

(13,009 posts)
47. No it would not be useless.
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 01:52 PM
Dec 2018

Unlike the justice department the administration has zero power to obstruct an impeachment. Assume the Mueller investigation is terminated. What then?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
48. With out a conviction
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 04:50 PM
Dec 2018

In the Senate it is useless. Worse Trump will be able to claim he was acquitted by the Senate.

dansolo

(5,376 posts)
52. That doesn't require an impeachment
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 06:51 PM
Dec 2018

The House can have hearings, and they can release their findings.

Voltaire2

(13,009 posts)
57. Regular hearings can be obstructed.
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 11:05 PM
Dec 2018

Trump can invoke executive privilege and take his chances with the court. He would have a much weaker case with an impeachment investigation. See the Nixon case.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
58. And a GOP majority in the Senate can
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 11:32 PM
Dec 2018

end an impeachment trial before it starts.

And Nixon lost when he claimed executive privilege.

Voltaire2

(13,009 posts)
75. No - an impeachment investigation in the House
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 12:36 PM
Dec 2018

is immune to obstruction from the senate or the executive branch.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
51. Why would he win?
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 06:43 PM
Dec 2018

Because of being impeached and acquitted? This is different from the Bill Clinton case.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
71. but won't the Dems be called weak
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 07:25 AM
Dec 2018

for just giving in and allowing this criminal to continue in office because they don't have "the balls" and all that other stuff?

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
74. By whom?
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 08:32 AM
Dec 2018

Better that they hold hearings for the next year to lay out all the evidence to the American people and then let them decide at the ballot box.

Journeyman

(15,031 posts)
10. If it's to happen, it will involve at-risk Senators up for re-election . . .
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:43 PM
Dec 2018

If the perception of Trump support is seen as detrimental to their prospects, they'll lean towards solutions that may save their sorry asses. If he's not seen as a detriment, and vulnerable, gaining Republican support look difficult at best.

Journeyman

(15,031 posts)
20. And how many up in 2022, who will be looking beyond the 2020 election? . . .
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 07:37 PM
Dec 2018

Trump's venality will not be confined by time or space.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
83. And what good is that if Trump wins re-election
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:40 PM
Dec 2018

Better to spend the next year having hears to lay out the case against Trump but then leave it to the people in 20.

Bleacher Creature

(11,256 posts)
16. Arlen Specter, Howard Baker, Pete Dominici, Jim Jeffords
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:50 PM
Dec 2018

Last edited Sat Dec 8, 2018, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Did you mean current Senators?? If so, then ZERO.

Bleacher Creature

(11,256 posts)
31. Sorry, you're right. I was thinking Baker and wrote Metzenbaum.
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 10:00 PM
Dec 2018

No clue why I did that, but I fixed it. Thanks.

Polybius

(15,385 posts)
33. No problem
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 10:04 PM
Dec 2018

How about Lincoln Chafee? He was another fairly liberal Republican who would vote to convict. In the end, he switched Parties.

Bleacher Creature

(11,256 posts)
39. Good one.
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 11:28 PM
Dec 2018

His father, John Chafee, was also really moderate and was actually seen as a champion of environmental issues.

dlk

(11,552 posts)
17. Let's Face It, There Aren't 20 Republican Senators with the Ethics to Vote for Impeachment
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 06:57 PM
Dec 2018

In their book, the rule of law is for the other guy--party comes first, last and always for them.

 

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)
18. Almost all GOPers will encourage trump to resign when trump supporters
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 07:12 PM
Dec 2018

tell them to. Right now, most of those who voted for trump would vote for him today, even if they are ticked at trump for not deporting millions, not bombing Iran and NK, failing to completely abolish ACA, etc.

FakeNoose

(32,633 posts)
100. Yes that's the key
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 05:33 PM
Dec 2018

They won't want to be on the record for having voted against Trump, but they will want him out of office. By now the majority of the GOP Senators have to know the scope of this, they know he's guilty and shouldn't be in the White House. They really don't want an impeachment hearing because it would drag so many others into it, like GOP Senators and Congressmen too. Trump's resignation would be SO convenient - it lets them off the hook.

Same thing happened in 1974 with Nixon. The GOP Senators, plus whoever was left on his staff, convinced Nixon he wouldn't survive the impeachment vote. By 1974 the GOP was the minority party and that made a big difference too.

Sedona

(3,769 posts)
19. I'll start
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 07:30 PM
Dec 2018

Murkowski
Collins
Romney
Kyl
Rubio
Graham
Sasse
Alexander
Paul
Gardener

That's all I got-halfway there.



Flame away if you must

Tom Rinaldo

(22,912 posts)
29. Kennedy is another possibe vote. Even someone like Ernst. It really comes down to the evidence...
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 09:31 PM
Dec 2018

,,,and the public reaction to it. Then there are wild card variables. Signs of a coming recession could cost Trump some popularity and put him on thinner ice etc.

enid602

(8,614 posts)
37. Joni
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 10:33 PM
Dec 2018

As I recall, Joni has plenty of eexperience castrating pigs. Maybe she could use a new pair of earrings.

Quixote1818

(28,928 posts)
44. Just getting 10 Republicans will make Trump look bad and other Republicans look like they are puttin
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 02:37 AM
Dec 2018

party over country.

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
64. If there is real evidence of
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 12:20 AM
Dec 2018

Russian collusion -- not just campaign finance violations, I think you can add Wicker (MS) to that list.

strongermessage

(284 posts)
21. Impeachment is not a useless exercise.
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 07:44 PM
Dec 2018

Others have said this over and over, but for the House NOT to initiate the proceedings against an illegitimate president who committed criminal actions would be a failure to perform their collective elected duty, regardless of who controls the Senate.

lindysalsagal

(20,670 posts)
23. +1000. Plus, it allows for investigations, hearings, testimony, and unearthing 45's business secrets
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 08:11 PM
Dec 2018

That's why it's valuable, even if the other grifters side with him. The gop goes on the record allowing criminals to personally profit from taking money from Russian oligarchs, and the coverage might actually get through to the faus snooze losers.

Do it. Do it. Do it. Wait for Mueller and then do it.

0rganism

(23,944 posts)
24. if the evidence is tight enough the vote to remove will be in the 80s
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 08:24 PM
Dec 2018

i'd bet plenty that a majority of the GOP power players think Trump is pigshit wearing a gold robe, he's not really in their club, and he's making them all look bad while he pisses in the well. some may have racial constituencies they've been cultivating for years that this medieval dickweed alienated in months. they've played along so far, and they've got some payback for it, but when push comes to shove i don't expect them to have his back. the paper-thin qualities of their loyalty and reliability will be on proud display if the evidence convinces enough of their brainwashed voters of what has been obvious to the rest of us for the last two years.

i think the only thing that would keep them loyal is if they were equally complicit and hoping for a Trump/Pence pardon. there's probably a dozen or so GOP senators to whom this applies. the rest? they'll flipflop fast enough if their chances of re-election drop.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
36. You really think GOP Senators has that much integrity?
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 10:12 PM
Dec 2018

So far I haven’t seen any sign of that. Even if Mueller has a tape of Trump and Putin discussing the whole plan for the 16 election, most Republicans will just deny it.

0rganism

(23,944 posts)
41. don't know if i'd call it "integrity", per se
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 01:57 AM
Dec 2018

i just think they're smart enough (barely) to know which side their bread is buttered on, and which side got burnt to charcoal in the toaster.

i think, initially, the denials will fly fast and furious. but as the hearings drag on and the evidence becomes increasingly irrefutable and public perceptions swing firmly into position, they'll fold like a cheap suit, they'll try to minimize damage. if that means throwing Hair Fuhrer under the bus, they'll do it, with less hesitation than many here suspect.

but the time must be right, we need a few months of truly sordid public hearings in the house for this to happen.

and when it does, as we realize the extent to which our nation has been thoroughly compromised at the highest levels, Americans will not be celebrating his removal so much as mourning the loss of the Cold War.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
42. The evidence about climate change is increasingly irrefutable
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 02:28 AM
Dec 2018

But they still deny it. Let’s not be naive about them or let wishful thinking cloud the reality of who they are.

0rganism

(23,944 posts)
45. "they" are a fading minority segment of the population
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 03:15 AM
Dec 2018

a fanatical, well-armed segment, to be sure, but a segment nonetheless. whatever grim physical changes we face in the coming decades, the GOP will not survive the coming political changes as-is. those who cannibalize the dreams of misguided constituents to rise to high ranks within their vampiric organizational hierarchy see this clearly, they're going to plan ahead for a time in the not-too-distant future when only a small minority of the minority who voted for Orange Julius Caesar remain willing to admit doing so.

reality is change. they too will change. when they have to. and not a second before.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
46. They still control the Senate
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 03:25 AM
Dec 2018

and are not going to vote to impeach Trump. That is the reality of the next 2 years.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
28. So here is how it could work.
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 09:05 PM
Dec 2018

None. But none may come at a price. If Trump looks to be hopelessly damaged goods, they will tell him not to run again - or else they vote.

I keep seeing rumors that the GOP PTB are preparing a "Run Nikki Haley" scenario.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
40. None of them.
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 11:59 PM
Dec 2018

They will get primaried and lose due to the MAGAt infestation of the Repuke criminal enterprise.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
50. IMO this skips over the fact that by the end of the hearings
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 06:42 PM
Dec 2018

on the impeachment and the trial, they might just have to vote to convict. If the evidence is strong, there will be pressure on them.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
60. You're making the assumption
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 11:39 PM
Dec 2018

that 20 GOP Senators will put truth, integrity and the country before their party. Never going to happen.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
69. why not?
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 07:21 AM
Dec 2018

It's a bit much to assume how they would vote after they hear all the evidence and after they know how their constituents feel about it. Republicans are awful people, but at least they want to be re-elected.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
73. If they had any integrity or honor
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 08:29 AM
Dec 2018

Merritt Garland would be on the Supreme Court and Brett Kavanaugh would not.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
113. Because if they did
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 08:59 PM
Dec 2018

Merritt Garland would be on the Supreme Court and Brett Kavanagh would not. And for the 21 who are up for re-election in 2020, most are in deep red states where they will be more hurt by voting against Trump.

YessirAtsaFact

(2,064 posts)
109. This doesn't require any integrity
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 06:26 PM
Dec 2018

Just such damning evidence made public by televised hearings in the Democratic controlled House that the Republican base shrinks further and any hope of getting re-elected requires independent voters.

The GOP Senators will act out of fear, just like the last two years.

If the president is impeached, the Senators won’t have to worry about Trump backing primary challengers, but they will face an even more pissed off electorate in the general election if the evidence is there and they refuse to act.

BTW, I do expect that there is a “smocking” gun and Mueller already knows where it is.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
70. Wouldn't there be tremendous pressure on him?
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 07:23 AM
Dec 2018

He'd have to hold out as a single person with most of the country against him. He'd have a constitutional duty to hold the trial. That would not be as easy as refusing to hold a hearing for a Supreme Court Justice. He could not claim that the next election is the only solution so easily. The Constitution does provide for the impeachment process.

DDySiegs

(253 posts)
53. Maybe The OP Author's Question is Premature - Maybe There are More Important Questions to Start With
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 07:14 PM
Dec 2018

These more important questions are: After the new House is sworn sworn in in early January, (1) Will there be any R-members of the House who will vote for any of the actual articles that the democrats are likely to submit to the house for a vote? ; (2) How many such Rs might there be?: (3) Who might such Rs be?; and (4) What districts and states would they come from? With an informed and intelligent set of possible answers to these questions, the OP author's question will become much more interesting and informative to consider.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,338 posts)
54. Impeachment is a pointless exercise, no way the senate will convict.
Sun Dec 9, 2018, 07:23 PM
Dec 2018

It will be a waste of time and effort, like the Republican House and Senate voting to repeal Obamacare (ACA) during the Obama administration. No way he gets removed.

And, if by some chance, he is removed, then in 2020 we go up against an incumbent, and presumably more competent, President Pence.

hueymahl

(2,495 posts)
89. Could not disagree with you more
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:54 PM
Dec 2018

See post my post 87: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211528215#post87

The impeachment process is critical to both getting the truth out and to exercising our constitutional duties to defend our nation against tyrants, traitors and those looking to corrupt democracy. It does not matter if the Senate votes to remove or not - that is on them and will be hung on them like a scarlet letter. Politics is well down the list of concerns at this point (though I think a detailed and exhaustive impeachment trial will pay massive benefits to Democrats).

Retrograde

(10,133 posts)
66. Susan Collins will express concern
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 12:49 AM
Dec 2018

Lindsey Graham and Rand Paul will get in front of cameras and deplore Trump's actions, but in the end all will vote as McConnell tells them to.

I'm changing my mind on impeachment: i'm coming to the conclusion that the House should start proceedings if only to get the evidence of Trump's crimes out in the open. And to dare the GOP senators to acquit him despite a mountain of evidence.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
67. They will take that dare
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:08 AM
Dec 2018

If GOP Senators had any sense of integrity or honesty or even shame, Merritt Garland would be on the Supreme Court and Brett Kavanaugh would not.

hueymahl

(2,495 posts)
76. Irrelevant, fatalistic question
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 12:50 PM
Dec 2018

Congress has a moral, constitutional duty to begin an investigation and impeachment proceedings. Individual 1's presidency has been an affront to our democratic system, appears to be run like a crime syndicate and violates our constitution, likely on a daily basis (see the emoluments clause).

If we fail to impeach, we will have failed ourselves, our country, our ancestors and our children.

Arguing that we should not do it just because the Republican led senate won't vote to remove is . . . words fail me.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
84. There will never be 20 GOP votes in the Senate.
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:43 PM
Dec 2018

Investigate yes, but a trial in the Senate is a useless exercise.

hueymahl

(2,495 posts)
87. Doesn't matter
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:48 PM
Dec 2018

And it is not useless at all. It is a necessary part of our democracy under the constitution.

Personally, I think it also will be a huge benefit politically, to make the Republicans own their defense of this most corrupt, criminal president. But whether it is a political benefit or political harm, to not do it is shirking our duty under the constitution and telling future corrupt politicians that it is ok to do it.

I REALLY don't understand the point of your post. If it is to merely point out removal is highly unlikely, yeah, you are right. So what. But if it is to argue we should not even try? I hope that is not your point, because I find that to be dangerous, almost evil in its disregard for what is best for society and our country.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
90. The point is
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:57 PM
Dec 2018

Impeachment is a useless exercise. Trump will never be convicted in Senate. Acquittal in the Senate hands Trump a victory going in to the 2020 election. He can claim that he was the innocent victim of a partisan witch-hunt.

Better to have hearings for the next year to lay out the case against Trump to the public but then to let the people decide in 20.

The goal is to get Trump out of office and elect a Democratic President, not to give Trump an issue he can run for re-election on.

hueymahl

(2,495 posts)
93. And that is where you and I disagree
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 04:19 PM
Dec 2018

Impeachment is not a useless exercise, it is a critical one that is necessary to protect our democracy.

As far as the political angle, I have a lot more confidence than you do about its benefits to Democrats, both at the presidential level and at the Senate level. Make those bastards own Trump.

Of course, a lot of this depends on the final Mueller report. I'm not advocating for impeachment unless there is a pretty iron-clad case. Or if they shut down the investigation before the report is issued. In a perverse way, this may be a great outcome. The house can hold hearings throughout next year and impeach in 2020. Toss that football to the Senate late in the summer and watch the carnage.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
95. It is useless
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 04:31 PM
Dec 2018

if there is no chance of getting 67 . It just hands Trump a victory going in to the election.

hueymahl

(2,495 posts)
96. Like I said, that is where we disagree
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 04:40 PM
Dec 2018

I don't think it helps him politically. Quite the opposite, if we talk about it for two years but never do anything about it, that is a victory for him. A well documented case of criminality presented in impeachment articles after months of hearings? Followed by the Republicans voting to ignore the evidence and not remove him? Don't see how that is not a positive for the Democrats.

Regardless of the politics, if the evidence supports articles of impeachment, we must do it. It is our duty to the country.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
98. It will
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 05:00 PM
Dec 2018

It will give credibility to his claim the that it was a partisan witch-hunt and fire up his base. And if done so close to the election it will make Dems look like they are trying to pre-empt the will of the people.

A well documented case can still be made via House investigations and hearings but no need to take the useless step of impeachment.

Our duty is to get Trump out of office as quickly as possible not to engage in a useless exercise that will hand him a victory going in to the election.

Qutzupalotl

(14,302 posts)
108. You seem to be stuck on the idea that impeachment means a Trump win.
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 05:56 PM
Dec 2018

That assumes facts not in evidence. You are probably basing this on Clinton’s impeachment, but he had the support of the public going in. That one actually was a witch hunt.

Trump has been denying everything about the investigation and his numbers are tanking. He’s now near 60% disapproval, and that’s likely to rise a lot more. For him to point to a Senate not convicting him after impeachment would only enrage the public.

The Mueller report will be entirely separate from Congressional investigations and presumably provide a basis for impeachment; it does not exist yet. We don’t know all the crimes that will be uncovered.

Mueller’s authority to prosecute includes any member of Congress. As just one example, we know that the Republican National Committee conspired to launder Russian money through the NRA into Republican campaigns. Anyone who did so knowingly is in trouble. Fewer Republicans left standing means a lower bar, and possibly even Democratic control of the Senate.

So it’s too early to say a) we won’t have the votes to convict next year, even though that is true today; and b) failure to convict will guarantee a Trump victory in 2020. The public will know a LOT more in 2020 than we know today.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
112. No I'm basing on the actions and additudes of GOP Senators
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 08:47 PM
Dec 2018

Read this: https://www.mediaite.com/online/orrin-hatch-reacts-to-trumps-suspected-campaign-finance-crimes-i-dont-care/

"For him to point to a Senate not convicting him after impeachment would only enrage the public."


No it will only enrage people on the left. We should not be so naïve to think they everyone will agree with us looking at the same facts. If that were true no one would have voted for him in 16.

So it’s too early to say a) we won’t have the votes to convict next year, even though that is true today; and b) failure to convict will guarantee a Trump victory in 2020. The public will know a LOT more in 2020 than we know today.


True things can change but I'm addressing those who want the Dems to vote for impeachment as soon as they take over in January.

Qutzupalotl

(14,302 posts)
116. We should definitely wait for Mueller to report or finish
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 10:05 PM
Dec 2018

so we can see the totality of the criminal enterprises, then judge.

As to public opinion of a failure to convict, if it enrages the left and the middle, that’s enough for us to win.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
119. Maybe
Tue Dec 11, 2018, 03:18 AM
Dec 2018

But we can’t assume that everyone will react the same way we will. If that were so Trump never would’ve been elected in the first place.

PubliusEnigma

(1,583 posts)
77. Wait for the Mueller Report. They can avoid taking this seriously until then.
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 12:57 PM
Dec 2018

There are 22 Republican Senators up for reelection in 2020. That will give you a good start on who will turn on Trump once his crimes are presented in public.

Ponietz

(2,961 posts)
99. Perhaps a couple but, on the whole, I think they are rats infected with greed and hate.
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 05:09 PM
Dec 2018

Even infected rats want to live, and I believe the next election cycle will make our ‘18 Blue Tsunami look like a ripple. But only if we throw down now with ‘em.

No more ‘wait and see’ about ‘smash and grab’. People are dying. The spirit that animates the Declaration of Independence animates our Party, and it is this spirit—The Resistance—that points the way forward.

I have a real can-do sense about all this. It seems to me that core DOJ, FBI, intelligence officials, even the military, have our backs. They want to know whether we can do this without ALL the embarrassing and compromising national secrets disclosed. I am not sure how long that will last. I believe we must go on offense, knowing the justice and urgency of our cause. If not, they will have had two further years to ensure that we never cast a meaningful vote again.

Sure, get the report first. In the meantime, let’s put those rats in a pressure cooker. Make them understand we will rain hellfire on their heads unless they take the path of least resistance.

Thank you for considering my reply.

 

scheming daemons

(25,487 posts)
79. 22 Republican Senators are up or re-election in 2020. Get them on the record.
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:14 PM
Dec 2018

If they're going to vote to acquit Trump, get them on the record with those votes.


Let them try to defend those votes to the voters in their states.


Even if Trump doesn't get removed, make the GOPers have an uncomfortable vote.


Think Susan Collins can survive in Maine if she votes to acquit Trump? I'd like to find out.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
86. Most are in deep red states
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:46 PM
Dec 2018

where a vote against Trump will do them more damage. Better to have hearings but then leave it up to the people in 20.

 

scheming daemons

(25,487 posts)
92. We thought Arizona was a deep red state a few short years ago.
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 04:03 PM
Dec 2018

Trump has changed the calculus.

Many of those states are more purple than they used to be.
 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
81. What is the relevant point of asking for prophecy? Thanks.
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 01:21 PM
Dec 2018

"Please provide a list of specific names. Thanks."

What is the relevant point of asking for prophecy? Thanks.




On Edit: Oh, I get it... you think because prophecy is fallacious, you've made a relevant and insightful point, despite that point itself being predicated itself on fallacy: post-hoc-ergo-prompter-hoc.

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
91. The point is
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 03:59 PM
Dec 2018

there will never be 20 GOP votes in the Senate to convict Trump so impeachment is a useless exercise that will hand Trump a victory going in to the 2020 election.

JCMach1

(27,556 posts)
97. The Ambitious, the Pontificant, or Both
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 04:47 PM
Dec 2018

Rubio, Paul, Graham, Collins, Cruz, Ernst, Hatch, Kennedy, Sasse... that list will also bring others along

 

Trumpocalypse

(6,143 posts)
102. And the rationale
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 05:36 PM
Dec 2018

for this list? Especially Graham who’s had his lips implanted on Trump’s butt recently.

aeromanKC

(3,322 posts)
107. It will be closer to +40
Mon Dec 10, 2018, 05:49 PM
Dec 2018

All we know so far is the tip of the iceberg. Once all the evidence against Trump is uncovered, the GOP will have no other choice but to throw Trump under the bus.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
124. It's not going to happen until more comes out during 2019
Tue Dec 11, 2018, 12:47 PM
Dec 2018

more from Mueller, more from SDNY, more from the Daniels suit, more from the Emoluments suit, and a lot more from public testimony before various House committees next year. None of it will be good for Team Trump.

If the economy does enter a downturn or recession, you will start to see Republicans defecting. Who? I have no idea. I'm guessing the ones in potentially tough races - Cory Gardner in CO; Tillis in NC, the guy in GA, Susan Collins (maybe), maybe John Kyl since he is going to retire?

 

WeekiWater

(3,259 posts)
126. Currently, none.
Tue Dec 11, 2018, 01:20 PM
Dec 2018

Impeachment hinges on the Mueller report. I do believe Republicans will vote to impeach and convict under certain circumstances. The bar has been set by just about everyone when it comes to the vehicle(the Mueller report). That is unless an absolute bombshell comes out.

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