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Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:18 PM

O'Rourke doesn't know if he's a progressive.




Rejecting labels makes it easy for people to project what they want to see on you, for better and for worse.

47 replies, 1910 views

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Reply O'Rourke doesn't know if he's a progressive. (Original post)
WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2018 OP
Vinca Dec 2018 #1
Garrett78 Dec 2018 #6
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #11
pnwmom Dec 2018 #20
Sugarcoated Dec 2018 #24
pnwmom Dec 2018 #25
Sugarcoated Dec 2018 #26
R B Garr Dec 2018 #30
pnwmom Dec 2018 #38
Sugarcoated Dec 2018 #46
pnwmom Dec 2018 #47
JI7 Dec 2018 #29
scarytomcat Dec 2018 #42
pnwmom Dec 2018 #43
scarytomcat Dec 2018 #44
Garrett78 Dec 2018 #32
ananda Dec 2018 #14
Tiggeroshii Dec 2018 #27
UncleTomsEvilBrother Dec 2018 #2
Doremus Dec 2018 #12
TexasTowelie Dec 2018 #3
obnoxiousdrunk Dec 2018 #5
violetpastille Dec 2018 #4
Docreed2003 Dec 2018 #7
Cha Dec 2018 #33
pecosbob Dec 2018 #8
Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2018 #15
JI7 Dec 2018 #21
Garrett78 Dec 2018 #37
Eric J in MN Dec 2018 #9
vsrazdem Dec 2018 #10
Kahuna7 Dec 2018 #13
ismnotwasm Dec 2018 #16
grantcart Dec 2018 #17
Gothmog Dec 2018 #18
GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #19
Kahuna7 Dec 2018 #39
JI7 Dec 2018 #22
Tiggeroshii Dec 2018 #28
Blue_true Dec 2018 #45
Liberal In Texas Dec 2018 #23
R B Garr Dec 2018 #31
WeekiWater Dec 2018 #34
demosincebirth Dec 2018 #35
betsuni Dec 2018 #36
Skidmore Dec 2018 #40
Bucky Dec 2018 #41

Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:20 PM

1. I don't care what he is. I have one criteria for our 2020 candidate - the ability to beat Trump.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:29 PM

6. Many people meet that criteria.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:58 PM

11. Almost everyone meets that criteria. Almost.

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Response to Garrett78 (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:05 AM

20. I'm not so sure about that. Look at how Trump blew through the primary. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:47 AM

24. Not too many quality candidates in that bunch, though

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Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:51 AM

25. People like Jeb Bush, Gov. of Florida, were thought to be "quality."

It was only Trump who made them look lightweight.

Biden is basking in Obama's reflected glory, but he's nothing like Obama. He's not nearly as smart, and verbally, he's gaffe prone. Trump could blow him out of the water.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:59 AM

26. I don't agree about Biden at all

I very much look forward to their debates if Joe is the candidate.

Jeb was a "safe" establishment "respectable" Republican who was afraid of Trump. Crooked Don ran circles around them on his stances, he was all over the map, unstable, they didn't know how to respond. They all seemed very inauthentic, reactive. Joe won't be.

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Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:07 AM

30. Agreed, great post. Trump is just a vulgar insulter,

not a debater. He got away with it before because of the spectacle, but he’s a cornered rat now.

Biden also came up with “a noun, a verb, and 9/11,” one of the most brilliant put-downs ever, so he can hold his own pretty well.

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Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #26)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 04:43 AM

38. How many debates have you seen Biden excel in? n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 03:18 PM

46. Against Palin and Ryan

He rocked both

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Response to Sugarcoated (Reply #46)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 04:46 PM

47. This is what I'm afraid he could descend to in a debate with Trump.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:06 AM

29. the problem with the republican primary are the republican voters themselves.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #25)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:21 PM

42. Trump will not be running

if you don't know if you are a progressive, you probably aren't
so time to become one

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Response to scarytomcat (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:27 PM

43. The Republicans in the Senate are unlikely to convict him,

even if the House impeaches him.

So Trump could well be running.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #43)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:33 PM

44. time will tell

I think he will resign for a pardon to stay out of jail
and rethugs are turning on him
and many of them may be in hot water too
follow the money

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #20)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:54 AM

32. Trump benefited from a large field and winner-take-all primaries. And, as others have said...

...the Republican electorate is much different than the Democratic electorate. There were factors at play in 2016 that won't be in 2020. We had a Democratic nominee who had been under ruthless attack for 3 decades, Comey's last minute announcement and Trump was new (he still has a cult following, but he's even more hated now than he was 2 years ago).

MI and PA were blue for 6 straight elections prior to 2016, and WI was blue for 7 straight. I think any number of potential Democratic nominees will carry all 3 states, which would give our nominee 278 electoral votes. Because I don't think Trump can carry a single state that Clinton won. Be it VA or NV or CO, I just can't see Trump winning any state that he lost in '16.

Other states that will be in play include Florida (which is less red in presidential elections), North Carolina, Arizona and Georgia. Maybe even Iowa, Ohio and Texas. At the very least, Republicans will be forced to spend money in those states.

There's also a chance that some right winger will launch a 3rd party bid and pick off a state such as Utah, which would make Trump's path to 270 even more challenging. This is assuming Trump doesn't resign between now and then.

My strong preference is for Harris, but there are other potential candidates who can win.

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Response to Vinca (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:59 PM

14. Hear hear!

nt

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Response to Vinca (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:02 AM

27. At this point, that's all that matters.

I think the odds are best if he's at the top of the ticket though. His effect would be watered down as VP, and he would be less likely than he already is to carry Texas.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:22 PM

2. Well....,

I am, and I'll be voting for progressive candidates. I suggest Beto make up his mind. This little foray into the "middle of the road" needs to come with caution. I'd like to think that I'm smart enough to know politics, and I know people have to say certain things for votes, but Beto's gentle affect may serve to his detriment if he comes off as uncertain.

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Response to UncleTomsEvilBrother (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:59 PM

12. Agree.

Before supporting him I would have to see his voting record and platform. I've heard rumblings on other sites that he is not as progressive as we might hope. I'll reserve judgment until I know the facts.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:22 PM

3. Golly jeez.

Another reporter from Politico trying to stir up a story.

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Response to TexasTowelie (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:24 PM

5. +1. n/t

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:24 PM

4. The first comment in the thread made me lol.

That is so very Beto.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:29 PM

7. Here we go again

I'm sure the purity police will waste no time in attacking Beto for giving anything less than a full throated "I'm a Progressive".

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Response to Docreed2003 (Reply #7)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:59 AM

33. Whereas I don't like labels, either. I pay attention

to what they do.. not what they call themselves. And, I notice what they disingenuously try to label someone else as.

Very telling.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:32 PM

8. His failure to support Pelosi was a bad sign

I'm assuming it was not because he found her politics to be too conservative...just sayin'. How many here were recently slamming all the 'Dems' among the Problem Solvers for this? Granted he hails from my home state of Texas and in local comparison that makes him Karl Marx.

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 05:00 PM

15. Yep. Remember just a couple days ago people lost their collective shit over even the prospect of...

.... not supporting Pelosi.

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Response to pecosbob (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:21 AM

21. more likely it was a political move since he is from Texas and was seeking higher office

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Response to JI7 (Reply #21)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 04:05 AM

37. It probably was, but his endorsement of Tim Ryan is, I admit, disturbing.

I take comfort in the fact that, at least now, Beto seems to have a pretty good grasp of how important it is to address systemic racism, unlike Ryan.

I'm certainly open to Beto as VP.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:34 PM

9. In the US House, Beto O'Rourke belongs to the New Democrat Coalition

...which is subservient to corporate lobbyists.

He doesn't belong to the Progressive Caucus.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:57 PM

10. He voted with the Republicans for bank deregulation. That worries me.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 04:59 PM

13. I'm not big on labels either. I think that is a good stance to take. nt

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 05:02 PM

16. Good for Beto.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 05:06 PM

17. +1

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2018, 11:18 PM

18. I stand with Beto

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:47 AM

19. Good for him.

Call me a liberal, a social democrat or a bleeding heart. I embrace them all.

Don’t call me a progressives. I read history. Your definition of progressive may well not jive with the history of the movement.

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Response to GulfCoast66 (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 10:35 AM

39. DING DING DING DING DING DING DING! NT

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:22 AM

22. does anyone know where he stands on Gun Control ?

for me things like gun control, abortion rights and other issues and where they stand on those will be more important than what they claim to be.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:03 AM

28. here

this should give you an idea:




Require background checks for all gun sales to ensure that firearms only get into the hands of responsible, law-abiding individuals. This means finally closing the gun show, online, and boyfriend loopholes.
Stop selling weapons of war and high-capacity magazines to ensure that firearms designed to kill as effectively and efficiently as possible on the battlefield aren’t used in our schools, our streets, our churches, and our concerts.
Block the erosion of Texas’ license to carry standards by opposing Concealed Carry Reciprocity, which would force Texas to allow anyone from states with weak to nonexistent conceal carry laws to disregard our own public safety requirements.
Fully support federal research on gun violence so that we can better understand and address its root causes.


https://betofortexas.com/issue/gun-safety/

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Response to JI7 (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 12:39 PM

45. He was for background checks and bans/regulation of assault weapons. Pretty bold for a Texas race.n

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 01:30 AM

23. Guess what? I like Beto n/t

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 02:11 AM

31. Good for Beto for rejecting divisive labels! We all know

what is trying to be pinned on him, so good for him.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 03:23 AM

34. He is a Texas Democrat and politically savvy for his age.

 

He wouldn’t join the Congressional Progressive Caucus. He is a member of the New Democrat Coalition. He advocates that congresspersons shouldn’t join any caucus and should work with everyone.

Two things I know about O’Rourke...

1) He is a new shiny object and we Democrats seem to really like shiny new things at the national level.

2) He is a progressive willing to compromise on legislation.

I don’t think he can win if he runs for President this time around. People will quickly learn that inspiring in Texas in a run against Cruz is much different than being inspiring on a stage with Warren, Sanders, Booker, Harris, etc.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 03:59 AM

35. Why don't we just let him be a Democrat for Christ sake.

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 04:03 AM

36. Good call. These days you don't know what people mean when they say progressive.

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Response to betsuni (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:29 AM

40. It's become a hollowed out

and meaningless word, IMHO,

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Response to WhiskeyGrinder (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2018, 11:34 AM

41. Labels are divisive. Labels are dumb.

Labels are divisive for people who are too lazy to think through the issues. People use them to prescribe rather than describe candidates.

Because he's hot right now, Beto O'Rourke is getting a lot of smears. Because people who are interested in smearing other candidates are intellectually lazy, all they can come up with are unresearched, clueless, ridiculous label attacks.

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