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Gidney N Cloyd

(19,781 posts)
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 11:12 PM Dec 2018

Difference between a Democratic Socialist and a Social Democrat

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-a-Democratic-Socialist-and-a-Social-Democrat
The key difference between the two here is the degree of acceptance of Marxist theory and the premise that capitalism must necessarily go. While democratic socialism advocates converting a society from capitalism to a communist society through democratic means, social democracy supports maintaing the capitalist framework, and working inside it, using economic and political interventions and government regulations/services to help the working class.

To me, 'social democracy' seems like what we've got and what some countries, particularly in northern Europe, do a bit better while 'democratic socialism' seems like the slippery slope to communism that RWers freak about.
Just to keep things "interesting," Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez aligns herself with the Democratic Socialists of America which is "a left-wing organization of democratic socialist (!), social democratic (!!) and labor-oriented members in the United States."
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Difference between a Democratic Socialist and a Social Democrat (Original Post) Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2018 OP
Try selling that to the RWNJ's dhol82 Dec 2018 #1
My main concern is the confusion plays right into their blood-stained hands. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2018 #2
They don't need confusion dhol82 Dec 2018 #3
and yet we've always been a mutt Hermit-The-Prog Dec 2018 #4
Indeed, however - dhol82 Dec 2018 #5
Yeah, even if you list the social programs we've long had, from "roads" to "Medicare," people freak. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2018 #14
I'm with ya. Bucky Dec 2018 #10
If they had asked me, moondust Dec 2018 #6
I think I'm with you on that. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2018 #13
social democrat all the way AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #7
Either words have meaning or we're just making up definitions... brooklynite Dec 2018 #8
The Quora quote I posted seems to be in agreement with the definitions I found elsewhere. Gidney N Cloyd Dec 2018 #12
There is really not a big difference. roamer65 Dec 2018 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author elocs Dec 2018 #11
It is all somewhat ironic agincourt Dec 2018 #15

dhol82

(9,351 posts)
5. Indeed, however -
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 11:38 PM
Dec 2018

For many in this country the word Socialist is just such a buzz word that you cannot have a rational discussion.
Sad, but true.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,781 posts)
14. Yeah, even if you list the social programs we've long had, from "roads" to "Medicare," people freak.
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 11:18 AM
Dec 2018

moondust

(19,917 posts)
6. If they had asked me,
Sat Dec 29, 2018, 11:46 PM
Dec 2018

I would have told them to go with "social democrat" since the word "socialist" has been demonized and equated with "communist" by right-wing capitalists for a century seeking to scare uninformed Americans and turn them against "big government" and collective action.

Of course they didn't ask me.

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,781 posts)
13. I think I'm with you on that.
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 11:14 AM
Dec 2018

But the guys with the flat hats decide what terms mean. They never ask me, either.

AlexSFCA

(6,137 posts)
7. social democrat all the way
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 01:30 AM
Dec 2018

the term socialism has (deservingly so) negative connotation which implies antagonism to capitalism and private enterprise. The democratic party supports capitalism - not to be confused with crony capitalism or kleptocracy. Robert Reich, the most eloquent defender of capitalism, has a great movie on Netflix - “Inequality for all”. Most frequently, 1970s era is being used as a reference when capitalism worked well in America which leads us to beleive that Nixon, in fact, was the last decent republican president (if you ignore watergate).

brooklynite

(93,873 posts)
8. Either words have meaning or we're just making up definitions...
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 01:46 AM
Dec 2018

In the English language, the first word modifies the second word. DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM means a political reform (Democratic) of an economic term (Socialism: an economic structure where the State controls the means of production).

Gidney N Cloyd

(19,781 posts)
12. The Quora quote I posted seems to be in agreement with the definitions I found elsewhere.
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 11:08 AM
Dec 2018

It must be a little counter-intuitive because I have had to google "social democracy vs democratic socialism" most every time I've come across either term being used.

roamer65

(36,739 posts)
9. There is really not a big difference.
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 01:48 AM
Dec 2018

Both generally believe in “managed capitalism”. Social Darwinism aka capitalism, needs to be managed and generally restricted.

There is no such thing as a pure capitalist or communist state on the face of the earth. All are some sort of hybrid system.

Response to Gidney N Cloyd (Original post)

agincourt

(1,996 posts)
15. It is all somewhat ironic
Sun Dec 30, 2018, 12:11 PM
Dec 2018

because I know some "true purist" commies who hate DSA much more than Trump and the Republicans, maybe because DSA is socialism without the authoritarianism. The authoritarianism trumps the importance of workers controlling the means of production. DSA is a real big tent, so I would not categorize it too much, it's like the Unitarian Universalist church for the left. The are many Social Democrats in DSA too, who want to reform capitalism to the point that one could call it socialism in the loose sense, like they did in the 1800s. What burns me is the teabilly leftists who appropriate leftist causes like choice, unions and death penalty, but when you tally it all up they're just trying to help repigs win elections. Jack Barnes and his Socialist Workers Party have went down that route the past two years, and it's infuriating.

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