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Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:50 AM

And never forget that Manafort picked Pence to be V.P. which means Putin picked Pence to be V.P.

Manafort was working off his debt to Putin and company when he went to work as Trump's campaign manager
and was still working for Trump/Russia after he was "fired." And even after he was "fired" Manafort was still
feeding data to the GRU so Russia could rat fuck our elections.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211655120

New Yorker:
When Kost Bondarenko, one of Manafort’s longtime Ukrainian associates, told the
Daily Beast, in May, 2017, that “Trump won because of Manafort,” this is what he
may have meant.

**********
https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pence-was-handpicked-paul-manafort-696412

Before Trump formally announced Pence as his vice presidential candidate, it was Manafort who made sure it happened, The New York Times reported last year.

Trump had hesitated to settle on Pence, who was governor of Indiana. Trump was fielding last-ditch appeals from New Jersey Governor Chris Christie and publicly said he had not made a “final, final decision” until advisers like Manafort reminded him of the importance of uniting the GOP around conservative Christian values.

CBS News reported that Pence was Manafort's "first choice" and that Manafort even lied about mechanical problems on Trump's plane to make the soon-to-be GOP nominee stay an extra day in Indiana to get to know Pence. In a phone call, Manafort assured Trump that Pence was the right choice and made a case that won over the real estate tycoon.

skip

The backpedaling began in March after it emerged that Manafort signed a multimillion-dollar contract in 2006 with a close associate of Vladimir Putin. Trump's team now claims that Manafort merely oversaw delegate operations and that Trump was not aware of Manafort's work for other governments, including Russia.

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Reply And never forget that Manafort picked Pence to be V.P. which means Putin picked Pence to be V.P. (Original post)
Botany Jan 11 OP
KCDebbie Jan 11 #1
Harker Jan 11 #18
duforsure Jan 11 #2
Sherman A1 Jan 11 #13
FakeNoose Jan 11 #34
InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 11 #3
Buckeyeblue Jan 11 #4
Botany Jan 11 #5
greymattermom Jan 11 #7
stuffmatters Jan 11 #50
anarch Jan 11 #6
Botany Jan 11 #9
anarch Jan 11 #11
Botany Jan 11 #12
stuffmatters Jan 11 #42
malaise Jan 11 #8
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 11 #10
Whiskeytide Jan 11 #17
calimary Jan 11 #25
Whiskeytide Jan 11 #27
Tommy_Carcetti Jan 11 #28
Whiskeytide Jan 11 #30
Joe Nation Jan 11 #14
Achilleaze Jan 11 #15
stuffmatters Jan 11 #43
Laura PourMeADrink Jan 11 #16
Roy Rolling Jan 11 #19
lagomorph777 Jan 11 #38
red dog 1 Jan 11 #49
lagomorph777 Jan 19 #59
mnhtnbb Jan 11 #20
DesertRat Jan 11 #21
certainot Jan 11 #22
stuffmatters Jan 11 #44
certainot Jan 11 #46
stuffmatters Jan 11 #48
Miigwech Jan 11 #23
leanforward Jan 11 #24
Crutchez_CuiBono Jan 11 #26
LiberalFighter Jan 11 #29
Botany Jan 11 #32
LiberalFighter Jan 11 #36
Blue Owl Jan 11 #31
ffr Jan 11 #33
Botany Jan 11 #39
ffr Jan 11 #41
stuffmatters Jan 11 #45
littlemissmartypants Jan 14 #57
MFGsunny Jan 11 #35
MrsCoffee Jan 11 #37
saljr1 Jan 11 #40
red dog 1 Jan 11 #47
SunSeeker Jan 11 #51
EricMaundry Jan 12 #52
Hortensis Jan 12 #53
Botany Jan 12 #55
Hortensis Jan 12 #56
Mr.Bill Jan 12 #54
littlemissmartypants Jan 14 #58

Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:52 AM

1. I haven't forgotten...

 

That's why whenever whatever happens, Pence needs to go with Trump...

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Response to KCDebbie (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:39 AM

18. I like the sound of 'acting president Pelosi'... n/t

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:02 AM

2. Putin picked his puppet, pence, Tillerson, Ross,

And others , not trump. putin also compromised numerous republicans in Congress. They'll all be exposed soon. Just a matter of time before everyone knows who's working for putin.

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Response to duforsure (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:08 AM

13. I'm sure that there's some

In congress that are comprised, as to them being exposed, I have my doubts.

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Response to duforsure (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:52 PM

34. Pootie picked Manafort too, don't forget

The rightwingers he didn't pick directly, compromised themselves when they took the dirty Russian money from the NRA. So that's just about every GOP member in Congress, am I right?



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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:06 AM

3. Yes, good reminder!!

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:06 AM

4. I wonder if Pence was picked because he was the only one who would say yes

Pence gave 45 a governor as a running mate. Pence's political career was basically in the toilet. He was a failed governor who tried to enact an extreme new Christian social agenda and was then backed into a corner by the state's biggest corporation and told to stop. Which he quickly did.

Pence gave 45 cover for his less than Sunday School demeanor. But given how inept Pence has proven himself to be, I can't imagine he was in with Putin. I think it is more likely Pence is willing to do whatever. I think any other VP with integrity would have either resigned by now or completely distanced themselves from 45.

I think Putin has great influence on 45. I think what Putin is most interested in is having sanctions removed, US getting out of his business in Eastern Europe and clearing out of the Middle East.

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Response to Buckeyeblue (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:12 AM

5. Mike Pence's brother has major Russian ties.

n/t

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Response to Botany (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:18 AM

7. Pence's Russian ties

should be investigated. I wonder what Ronan Farrow is working on.

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Response to greymattermom (Reply #7)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:22 PM

50. His Brother became a Putin Co Exec pretty quickly after bankrupting family legacy business

I suspect Putin probably got his $ hooks in Bro Pence during major bankruptcy. Similar circumstances to Trump.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:15 AM

6. I've always wondered about that

I think maybe the Russians have something on either Pence or his brother, or else they just picked him as the best option to secure the evangelical vote while being no threat as far as actually assuming power himself. A steady, dignified looking foil to fuckface's antics. A solid choice, really...which is why it must have been Putin's. I seem to recall stories about fuckface himself looking bemused and saying something like "does it really have to be that guy?"; so VP Pence was clearly placed there at Manafort/Putin's direction. It's going to make it very difficult to deal with if/when fuckface resigns, dies, or is deposed before his term is up...who the fuck knows what else is in the plans if that happens?

You really do have to hand it to the Russians...This was a long-term operation (and ongoing, of course), with so many bases covered--right on down to disabling DU on election day, to prevent real-time reporting of weird things that didn't seem right--really pretty impressive. Who ever thought the end of America would come like this? Well, aside from the makers of Idiocracy I guess...but the complexity of the espionage and dirty tricks involved here are just amazing.

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Response to anarch (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:20 AM

9. The Russians had to have had inside help

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211647066

Steve Schmidt (GOP):
There is no way the Russians could utilize the voter file without fairly consistent contact and
guidance from the campaign.

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Response to Botany (Reply #9)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:28 AM

11. I'm sure that's true

I don't know how much fuckface himself became personally involved (aside from handshakes and fake smiles, and agreeing to what-the-hell-ever as long as he can feel like a big, smart, rich and powerful man. In a way, I see him as a victim in all this--all his own doing, obviously, but it's not as if he's the mastermind here.

But yeah, it had to have been a coordinated effort...the GOP have been fixing elections wherever they can for decades; they had the inside access, and the Russians had the skills and the plan.

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Response to anarch (Reply #11)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:39 AM

12. According to Malcom Nance that Russia/Putin have been playing the long game w/Trump for ....

... many years when they realized that he could be a useful idiot and that he was very easily
manipulated and would be easy to blackmail too. Trump is not smart enough to do all this
"stuff*" on his own but we had people like McConnell, Ryan, Parscale, Kelly Anne Conway,
Manafort, Cohen, Eric Prince, Roger Stone, the Mercers, Bannon, the Koch Brothers, Scalis,
Kris Kobach and Pence who were and still are so craven with power & money that they were
down with this program from the get go.


* This "thing" is so big I really can't get my head around "it."

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Response to Botany (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:11 PM

42. All those GOPers you mention,from Pence to Koch Bros, as anti democracy as Putin

It was an easy buy, allegance for Putin to make. There's never been any ideological daylight between Putin and the GOP politicians... front/hate groups incl NRA,criminal mercenaries, the sado Christian/white supremacy evangelical industry, billionaire propaganda pillars like Koch's & Mercers and all these other Putin money funnels. It's all about, and always has been for Putin and the vast GOP money infrastructure, an agenda aimed at usurping democracy for Putin style oligarchy, totalitarianism.

Definitely they were "all down with this program from the get go."

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:19 AM

8. Yep

Get thee to the greatest page for those who have forgotten this important fact

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:27 AM

10. Not saying that's impossible but...

...Manafort was campaign manager at the time where candidates typically choose their running mate.

So declaring that Putin picked Pence without any further evidence is a bit of a logical stretch. I think people are looking far more into that one little fact that they should.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:37 AM

17. I also think we're making a little too much of this. Pence...

... was a pretty logical pick. He brought the evangelical vote, he was a prototypical “yes” man, and he didn’t have any descernable charisma to overshadow or upstage the asshole.

Manafort was instrumental in picking him, and there apparently are some ties between Pence/Pence family and Russia. But I don’t think there is any solid evidence that Putin favored Pence specifically. I might agree that Putin may have not wanted Christie on the ticket as I don’t think Christie was compromised by Russians (he was compromised by good old fashion American political corruption), and as a past prosecutor he might have been inclined to sound alarms over some of the Campaign’s most egregious actions.

Now this is not to say that Pence was not all in on the arrangement. I think he was. But I think that’s more a result of his lack of morals, dignity and spine. Not necessarily because he was a Russian plant.

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Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:51 AM

25. He did pass the "Central Casting" test. He's undoubtedly

THE whitest white guy I, for one, have ever seen.

I think trump took one look at him and it was all visceral. “THIS guy! After that Kenyan dude in the White House, THIS is the image WE want!”

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Response to calimary (Reply #25)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:57 AM

27. Great post. I agree 100%. n/t

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Response to Whiskeytide (Reply #17)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:11 PM

28. I think it's all well-intentioned but ultimately wishful thinking of the President Pelosi fantasy.

Which would be great, don't get me wrong.

But the idea is ridiculously far fetched that somehow we're going to see Trump and Pence simultaneously impeached and then jointly tried in the Senate and jointly removed from office, and that suddenly makes Nancy Pelosi president.

Love it.

It ain't gonna happen, though.

Trump is up to his eyeballs in the Trussia scandal.

Pence...well, he has his feet wet, but that's about it. He appears to have at the very least been cagey about his knowledge (or lack thereof) of Flynn's lobbying activities, and he has his brother who apparently has done some business with Russia, but there's nothing concrete that connects him to the nucleus of the scandal.

And even if those facts are enough to force a Pence resignation (and sadly, I'm doubtful on that), Trump would just nominate some other generic Republican who is palatable enough for confirmation and who would take over if Trump is removed from office or resigns (or suffers a KFC related event).

Even under the joint-impeachment fantasy, Trump and Pence would both be tried by a Senate that is still majority Republican. If the Mueller report is damning enough (which I think it will be) they might be willing to dispense with the unruly lunatic that is Trump due to the long-term damage that he might cause the party, but they're never going to entirely cede the White House to the Democrats.

It's not that big a deal because Pence is still tainted goods by virtue of having been Trump's Vice President and that would hinder his chances if he were to run in 2020.

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Response to Tommy_Carcetti (Reply #28)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:19 PM

30. Exactly. A good analysis...

... Prez Pelosi is a great fantasy, but a classic pipe dream. It would never happen in real life.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:15 AM

14. If the Trump/Pence campaign illegally colluded,

it is Trump and Pence that pay for that, not just Trump. Pence is a sniveling little sneak. Trump may be the Dr. Frankenstein but Pence is definitely Igor.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:23 AM

15. republicans are a mob of sissy subbies

Last edited Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:37 PM - Edit history (1)

in service to the evil empire* of russia.


* per ronald freaking reagan (R)

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Response to Achilleaze (Reply #15)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:15 PM

43. Do you know where to find the Reagan quote? Would love,love to use it.

It's absolutely great (& so true)

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:36 AM

16. And !!! Trump HAS NOT trashed him, has he?

Same with Flynn. Biggest tell of all

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:40 AM

19. Pence is overacting

Him playing dumb is an act. A bad one. It's why there's a chance there will be a president Pelosi before it's all over.

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Response to Roy Rolling (Reply #19)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 05:25 PM

38. Ever notice that bizarre creepy smile he gets when Trump speaks?

Like a baby that has just shat its diaper, or like he's having an orgasm in his pants.

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Response to lagomorph777 (Reply #38)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:13 PM

49. Pence is in love with Trump, who is in love with Putin.

What a soap opera!

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Response to red dog 1 (Reply #49)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:05 PM

59. ...who is in love with himself, so the butt stops there...

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:50 AM

20. Pence is truly a

motherfu*ker.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:58 AM

21. Absolutely. I've been thinking a lot about this lately.

Manafort's first choice.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:03 AM

22. manafort was also cochair for mcccain 2008 and they used limbaugh to force palin on him

limbaugh wouldn't support mccain until minutes after mccain announced his choice for palin

the GOP convention was starting days later, and would have been a disaster if mccain had chosen lieberman or pawlenty and limbaugh had not signed on

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Response to certainot (Reply #22)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:17 PM

44. That is very significant info. Did not know that. TY

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Response to stuffmatters (Reply #44)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:51 PM

46. other examples since then - limbaugh started climategate in 2009 from a russian hack

of climate scientists emails

were russians using soc media and trolling liberal blogs in 2010 to suppress the vote - they would piggyback talk radio memes rather than making them up

why would american billionaires want limbaugh to spend 2 months selling debt default to the teabags in 2011?

right after benghazi 2012 when they were throwing a lot of crap vs hillary and obama talk radio gods were blaming them for not allowing US embassy marines to carry live ammo - thereby encouraging terrorist attacks

trump team studied talk radio in 2014, according to sam nunberg in an interview with gabriel sherman (new york mag 4/3/2016) - to coordinate with the russians?

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Response to certainot (Reply #46)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:13 PM

48. Excellent info. The question for a long time has been not "if" but " how long." & "how deep"

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:31 AM

23. pence is a Russian bot

he pumps trump up with confidence on every anti-American, pro-Russian decision trump makes

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:39 AM

24. I've never forgotten

Last edited Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)

To me Pence goes with pRezident dRumpf along with others associated this dip stick.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:55 AM

26. My gods. We were SO duped.

They all need to go. And never return. Including their whole guidelines of gop leadership and governing(?). Do they even do that?

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:14 PM

29. Did Manafort encourage Trump to select Pence for the purpose of uniting R's?

Or was it that Manafort reminded DT the importance of doing what Russia wanted if he wanted any business dealings in Russia?

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Response to LiberalFighter (Reply #29)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:41 PM

32. I might be wrong but Trump is such a lightweight and the Russians had and still have files on him...

.... and how he can be manipulated that Manafort getting Trump to pick Pence was easy. Again I
might be wrong but I think that Trump is so scatter brained and that along with some pumping up
his ego he is much like training a dog, the last input in is the one he goes with.

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Response to Botany (Reply #32)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:01 PM

36. Scattered brain for sure.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:18 PM

31. Pence's real mother is Mother Russia

n/t

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:43 PM

33. You're doing an awesome job of reminding us of dirty deed Pence.

Trump Lawyer Kasowitz Defends Russian Gov Sberbank; Sberbank Was To Fund Trump Tower Moscow

Trump’s longtime lawyer Marc Kasowitz is representing Russian Govt owned Sberbank against accusations of corporate raiding, even as he represents Trump in the Russiagate case. Apparently, Sberbank agreed to fund an Agalarov project which might include a Trump Tower in Moscow. Sberbank is also a major owner of KAMAZ, which is a long-time partner to Cummins where US VP Pence’s brother is also VP.

Yesterday the New York Times reported re the Agalarovs of Trump, Jr. email infamy:m ”The elder Mr. Agalarov had been talking with Mr. Trump about building a Trump Tower in Moscow as part of a $3 billion real estate project involving hotels, a shopping center and office space.

Sberbank was ready to make it happen…..”
Read “A Russian Developer Helps Out the Kremlin on Occasion. Was He a Conduit to Trump?” By NEIL MacFARQUHARJULY 16, 2017 https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/16/world/europe/aras-agalarov-trump-kremlin.html
<snip>

KAMAZ is a longtime partner of Cummins where US VP Pence’s brother is a VP. KAMAZ is part of Rostec State Corporation, one of a handful of Russian companies which are directly owned by the Russian Federation and who answer more directly to Putin than some Russian state owned entities.
<snip>

Currently the Russian government owns 73.4% of KAMAZ via Rostec at 49.9%, 51% Russian government owned Sberbank - Mining Awareness


Oh yes, Mike Pence, the former governor of Indiana, headquarters of Cummins Diesel whose VP up until 12/8/17 was Ed Pence, Vice President Mike Pence's brother.



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Response to ffr (Reply #33)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:10 PM

39. Trump Tower Moscow would have never been built.

Reason being is that the Russian oligarchs and mafia types used Trump properties to launder their money and get it out of Russia. A Moscow project doesn't do them any good and they were just stringing dumb ass Donny along. (My guess)

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Response to Botany (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:11 PM

41. Ha! Never thought of that, but that makes absolute sense. n/t

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Response to Botany (Reply #39)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:20 PM

45. Terrific insight.

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Response to Botany (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:33 AM

57. Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

One con fools a stupider con. Just a little delicious, if true that Putin played him. I like the concept, botany. You make a good argument.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 02:13 PM

35. NOT FORGOTTEN but THANKS for proper reminder!

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:01 PM

37. Yeah, I have a hard time trusting anyone associated with Manafort.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:11 PM

40. Pence knows he is in trouble because of the numerous reports this past summer that he was seeking to

meet with the Special Council but they refused to meet.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:08 PM

47. Kick

Thanks for posting this, Botany.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:57 PM

51. K & R

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:24 AM

52. K&R

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 01:54 PM

53. Where are our own plutocrats in this picture? Some MUST have known

that Trump was surrounded by Russian agents and much else. Information is power, and the Koch alliance alone has probably close to 1000 right-wing centimillionaires and billionaires, believed in 2015 to be more powerful in right-wing politics than the Republican Party.

The Kochs certainly knew that Pence was THEIR man and were waiting for an appropriate time to decide whether they would run him for president.

They also knew that hired hands like Manafort don't choose American presidents, or their very likely successors.

What I'd love to know is did they through Pence (and ?) involve themselves indirectly or directly with Russia's subversive activities in America? And are they too powerful to take on? So far they're far too powerful for the MSM to take on.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #53)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 04:43 PM

55. Simple question

How and why did McConnell know to block Merrick Garland?

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Response to Botany (Reply #55)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 05:52 PM

56. Yes. I think profound amorality and lack of principles combined with

his craving for power would account for his subversive, destructive strategy, but what did he know when he decided to go for it? He also, of course, has always known many secrets, some of which may never come out.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 04:00 PM

54. It makes one wonder

how many other republican governors the Russians control.

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Response to Botany (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:38 AM

58. Pence gives me the creeps.

And that's the most minor effect he's having on reality, which he doesn't seem to be in touch with.

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