HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » The goal is not to end th...

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:52 AM

The goal is not to end the shutdown...

The goal is the shutdown itself.

That's why he brought it up now, with a Dem congress, when he could have done it and passed it any time in the past 2 years.

Full on autocracy.

44 replies, 3482 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 44 replies Author Time Post
Reply The goal is not to end the shutdown... (Original post)
cilla4progress Friday OP
secondwind Friday #1
Eliot Rosewater Friday #2
Caliman73 Friday #4
lunatica Friday #12
Caliman73 Friday #14
True Blue American Sunday #37
pangaia Friday #20
Caliman73 Friday #23
pangaia Friday #24
jcgoldie Sunday #34
LTG 17 hrs ago #41
True Blue American Sunday #30
Eliot Rosewater Sunday #32
True Blue American Sunday #33
Eliot Rosewater Sunday #35
dlk Friday #3
Eliot Rosewater Friday #5
kimbutgar Friday #6
dalton99a Friday #11
ancianita Friday #16
uponit7771 Sunday #36
pangaia Friday #21
Wellstone ruled Friday #7
LTG 17 hrs ago #42
moondust Friday #8
debsy Friday #9
malaise Friday #10
lunatica Friday #13
erronis Friday #15
NastyRiffraff Friday #17
Chemisse Friday #18
pangaia Friday #19
littlemissmartypants Sunday #38
Charlotte Little Friday #22
spanone Friday #25
JDC Friday #26
Tumbulu Saturday #27
Algernon Moncrieff Sunday #28
Joe941 Sunday #29
JustABozoOnThisBus Sunday #31
orangecrush Sunday #39
zentrum Yesterday #40
mpreorder 6 hrs ago #43
Lotus54 6 hrs ago #44

Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:53 AM

1. It is so obvious.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 11:53 AM

2. He didnt even know he could do the national emergency until a reporter told him he could.

Putin probably dint know either but now that rump and his boss know, we can be sure it will happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:17 PM

4. Irritating!

To be fair, I am sure that someone within Trump's team had considered that angle under the Presidential powers, but you are right that it wasn't something that was really even being considered as a strategy until that dumb reporter fed it to Trump. I was talking about that to my wife this morning. Trump's reaction, like with any new information, was obvious that he hadn't really considered it and still to this very minute, doesn't understand what it is to declare a National Emergency.

When President Obama declared a National Emergency during the height of the Swine Flu, it was very narrow, to grant powers to the health departments and hospitals to stop the spread of the illness. Trump thinks that he will be able to just start construction which is just like his simple minded ideas on everything else.

I am sure he will try to declare a national emergency, but he really has no standing to do so, especially since the first legal challenge will be to the provision that the current situation at the border is "unexpected". Immigration and illegal crossings have been decreasing steadily over the last 10 years (other than the bump of unaccompanied minors during President Obama's term). There is no crisis of people coming into the country and there has been no increase of crimes committed by immigrants. As other posters have said, Trump had a compliant Congress for 2 years and he didn't ask for ANY money to build his wall.

Remember when President Obama had a Democratic Congress for 76 days in his first term and he did nothing of any real significance legislatively? Yeah, me neither. He pushed through the ACA which love it or hate it was the first real attempt at improving access to healthcare in 40 years.

What did Trump do except sign a massive tax cut through the reconciliation process?

He is a joke. A dangerous joke.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Caliman73 (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:27 PM

12. My feeling is that he would have already declared it if he thought

he could get away with it. Something has stopped him, which we could assume is people who have told him that even if he does declare a national emergency the best he can hope for is lawsuits that will last for years and an acceleration of impeachment hearings.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #12)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:55 PM

14. That is likely.

Trump is nothing if not a complete coward. He is brash and blustering, but he would not take on people who he thinks can beat him. This is why he doesn't argue directly with people, but calls them names when they are not there to respond. He didn't yell at Pelosi and Schumer in the meeting, he waited then whined to the press.

The point of the conversation was that it is irritating that the Press/Media asks Trump these questions, almost providing him with the ideas or at least the opportunity to speak about something controversial at the press gaggles. The reporter said, "Are you planning to declare a national emergency to build the wall?" I guarantee that while Trump's staff had probably considered it, Trump himself was not really aware or seriously contemplating using that power. Now, it is a talking point and the Media is counting down. There are stories I have read about how "Trump is getting closer to declaring a National Emergency".

I know that the corporate media lives on conflict, but they are actually egging this on. That is what is irritating.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lunatica (Reply #12)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 04:38 PM

37. Trump has been warned.

It would empnd up in the Courts and he would lose. Probably be the beginning of the end like Nixon. And Nixon did nothing close to what Trump is guilty of.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Caliman73 (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:42 PM

20. But WHO can 'not allow' a national emergency?

I dont know the rules or the law,, as it either matter any more...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pangaia (Reply #20)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 08:48 PM

23. The House will sue the president.

With a law suit pending, there will be injunctions on any appropriations or movement by Trump toward building anything. The law suit will be about misuse of power. The Democrats will say that Trump overstepped his bounds and they will argue about whether the situation at the border meets the threshold of a national emergency.

Trump does not care for laws or tradition but there are people in government that still do. He won't get anywhere with his "national emergency".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Caliman73 (Reply #23)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:48 PM

24. Thanks.

You know what has worried me for a LONG time, is that as trump and his fellow 'coupers' take over more and more of gov.. the lower courts, for example, different department heads, cabinet officials, nat security, law enforcement-incl FBI etc., the..... military??? and what-have-you... when does the point come where there is nobody left to stop him?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Caliman73 (Reply #23)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 12:48 PM

34. I would think that the longer he drags this mess out...

and blabs on twitter and elsewhere about how he can declare an emergency whenever he wants... the more impossible it will be in court to demonstrate that there really is any kind of emergency at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Caliman73 (Reply #23)

Tue Jan 15, 2019, 12:38 AM

41. The federal courts have shown great deference

Last edited Tue Jan 15, 2019, 02:38 AM - Edit history (1)

to the President when utilizing statutory discretionary powers that are ill defined. Even the Supreme Ct has shown reluctance regarding the federal courts interference in the President exercising his statutory discretion. It is highly possible that federal appellate courts would decline to do so here.

This might be particularly true since Congress has given itself the ability to cancel such a Declaration. Congress can pass an act terminating the Declaration of National Emergency. Of course the President would veto it, requiring a super majority in both chambers to override the veto. Not a likely event in the current circumstance.

There are currently somewhere around 30 national emergency declarations active in the US, acting under at least 100 separate federal statutes granting the President the power to move money from certain budgeted items to unbudgeted ones.

Congress has given the President some fairly broad powers in this area. Including the power to move troops around the country to enforce federal law and court rulings when local authorities canít or wonít do so. Essentially federal law enforcement by military troops without violation of posse comitatus.

Itís actually pretty scary what powers have been given to the President by Congress when acting under the authority of a Declaration of National Emergency.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #2)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 06:02 AM

30. I heard that

And realized he had planted the idea in Trumpís head! I could have throttled him.

Any idea who the Reporter was?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to True Blue American (Reply #30)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 12:11 PM

32. No but you could google it i think

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #32)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 12:44 PM

33. I tried right away

But all I could come up with was Trump video of him shouting that he could do that, he had the power to do anything!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to True Blue American (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 01:41 PM

35. I heard it I think, cant remember now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:03 PM

3. Putin's Goal is Chaos and Harming the U. S. - He's Succeeding

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dlk (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:24 PM

5. Rump owes putin 4 billion and will do every single thing he is told to do.

Destroying our institutions and economy is part of his job.

The insane tax cut will in the long run devastate most of us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eliot Rosewater (Reply #5)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:49 PM

6. I wonder if that 5 billion he is demanding will find its way into Putin's pockets?

I see this slush fund under the orange maggots discretion not being audited and untraceable. Phoney Putin contractors who will over inflate the invoices and having the money being sent on pallets to Russia like that money was sent to Iraq that disappeared under Cheney.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kimbutgar (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:25 PM

11. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kimbutgar (Reply #6)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:04 PM

16. +1 A smart prediction

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kimbutgar (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 01:51 PM

36. +1, the trader war with China is helping Russia sell soy beans to China

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to dlk (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:42 PM

21. yes that is obviouslt the goial from the beginning..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 12:53 PM

7. When the TSA was first

organized,many of the People hired came from Private Security Companies(door shakers). Wachenhut became one of those Companies who had security contracts with major Airports and they became the base of the new TSA. Their managers and employees became TSO's with the stroke of a pen.

Have been told by TSA people,there has been a plan in place to go back to a Privatized Company. Is this what is going to happen?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 15, 2019, 12:46 AM

42. This possibility has always existed.

Airports, and to some extent individual airlines, have always had the right to request the use of their own private security instead of TSA. Several have done so for a while now. I believe San Francisco and American Airlines are two entities that have done this.

There has been speculation that more airports may utilize this option to dump TSA in the near future.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 01:33 PM

8. Keeping the racists fired up.

He needs an ongoing issue to keep his racist base energized from one day to the next. Without it they lose interest and start to look elsewhere for an adrenaline rush.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:19 PM

9. indeed

so simple to see if one is not blinded by the fat, hairy orange mushroom dick wad.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:24 PM

10. He will lose

Watch the ride

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to malaise (Reply #10)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 03:29 PM

13. Yes, he will

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:03 PM

15. My theory is that fake $s are funding this invasion.

Yes, this is just a play, a ploy. String along the compliant for a bit longer before letting everyone know that they are "remaindered".

Color me conspiratorial or delusional. Where are all these free $s/roubles coming from that are lining the pockets of the (R)epuglicons and trump(s)?

They could be from sales of USSR or Saud oil but I doubt those close fisted regimes would part with real dinaro.

It'd be minimally satisfying to find out that Fred and spawn's empire was build on counterfeit.

But maybe that's how the world works now.

No real work.

Just IOUs.

Screwed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 06:14 PM

17. He's said several times in the past that he wanted a shutdown

He believes this gives him power; hence all the talk about a national emergency. It's not about an emergency or a wall either. It's about autocratic power.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:19 PM

18. The Republicans didn't want it either, so he couldn't have passed it in the past 2 years.

But he can only have a big fight with the Democrats, so that may be why he waited til now.

Alternatively, he may be trying to make a statement that Nancy is not going to pull anything over on him, so chose this fight at this time. Too bad for him that he underestimated her (and Chuck, but I really think part of this is about the woman in power).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:39 PM

19. Fnally, somebody gets it.

Well, not just you and me, that;s for sure...

shut down the gov. and American democracy.. dictator...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pangaia (Reply #19)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 04:50 PM

38. Bingo. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 07:47 PM

22. Sarah Kendzior

has been talking about this since 2016. The woman is extremely knowledgeable about authoritarianism.

Not to scare the daylights out of all of you, but...


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 09:51 PM

25. Exactly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2019, 10:07 PM

26. It's to keep Dems in gridlock and force their attentions

Away from oversight on he and his admin. It won't work.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 12:47 AM

27. His goal is civil war and the destruction of our civil service

And he is achieving it.

This shut down will not end, it is just the first step.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 01:26 AM

28. OK, assuming what you say is true, the smart play is to give him the money

Open the government back up. Let hard working civil servants get paid. Ensure that airport luggage is screened and meat is inspected. Go with me for a moment...

An actual engineer explains why the wall is 'a disaster of numerous types waiting to happen.'

This article makes a lot of points you probably know already about why the wall is a bad idea. If you don't want to read the whole thing, I'll share the key takeaway:

It will not be completed in Trumpís lifetime.


So there is a Presidential election in 21 months. If the Democrats win back the White House, canceling this boondoggle will be agenda item #1 (unless we win both houses of Congress, in which case rolling back Citizens United and Clean DACA will be agenda items 1 & 2, and rolling back the tax cuts Trump gave to his wealthy patrons will be item #3, so repealing the wall will be item 4) And, we can spike this in other ways, such as requiring US-based companies that moved jobs to Mexico (I'm looking at you, Carrier) to be slapped with tariffs or excise taxes to pay for it.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 02:06 AM

29. Exactly. No impeachment while g is shutdown.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 06:11 AM

31. Miller and Bannon are loving the shutdown.

Susan Sarandon is probably giddy about the possibility of her "revolution".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 06:47 PM

39. Precisely!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Mon Jan 14, 2019, 09:40 AM

40. Gingrich said on NPR

....this morning that the last shutdown was great! It allowed them to cut taxes (we all know what that means), have 4 "balanced budgets" which means they cut the safety net and regulations, and "welfare reform"---so the shut down hurt the poorest the worst BUT moved income up.

Another reason for this shut down and the reason the Repugs support is to address the recent tax cut for the highest incomes. It cuts the deficit because government is being shrink to the size of bathtub. It's a back door deficit reducer.

Their glee is the glee they feel when they are able to shift income upward, ever upward.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2019, 11:20 AM

43. I've heard a theory...

that the shutdown is to divert attention from the shit tons of money for a military buildup in the South China sea.
Lots at stake there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cilla4progress (Original post)

Tue Jan 15, 2019, 11:31 AM

44. Reason for the Shutdown, the wall main rationale

A month ago, Congress unanimously passed a Continuing Resolution to Fund the Government, Trump apparently agreed to sign it.
All of a sudden because he was being criticized by the conservative media, namely, Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter and the rest of propaganda news media, he made a complete 360-degree turn.

Now, why?

Allow me to ponder on this scenario. I believe Trump knew unequivocally the "wall" ( pun intended) --meaning-- the SDNY, Michel Cohen, Bob Mueller, and the House Majority Democrat Congress are closing in on him and his cronies. That being said, now more than ever, he needs his base and his conservative media propaganda machine on his side when the reckoning comes.

In summary, he needed the border Wall propaganda crisis to unite his base and his conservative media. I think this is the reason why the big emergency crisis has been branded about including his State Address speech.

I would not be surprised if he declares a Nationa Emergency to Fund the Wall to satisfy his base (his soldiers). Heck, we know, Lindsey Graham has already given him green light and with McConnel still hiding and silent, I believe Trump is going to do it.

He could care less about the border wall or the country, his main concern is to protect himself and his cronies.

Sources:

In 2015-16, everything changed. Blavatnik's political contributions soared and made a hard right turn as he pumped $6.35 million into GOP political action committees, with millions of dollars going to top Republican leaders including Sens. Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, and Lindsey Graham.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/12/15/putins-proxies-helped-funnel-millions-gop-campaigns

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/07/20/the-entire-republican-party-is-becoming-a-russian-asset/?utm_term=.072fdf465e26

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-is-the-president-of-the-republican-base--not-the-country/2019/01/11/3862aa9c-150f-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html?utm_term=.48efcce0dfee

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread