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Sat Jan 12, 2019, 08:59 AM

Structural Engineer: The WALL is busted!

Fascinating read analyzing the flaws in Trump’s wall(s). President-expert-on-everything-in-Chief hasn’t addressed any engineering or environmental issues, and there are many, not to mention technology that will make the wall obsolete before it is finished. The WALL is busted!


Breaking News: Structural engineer Amy Patrick rips gigantic crater into Trumps wall.









36 replies, 4780 views

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Arrow 36 replies Author Time Post
Reply Structural Engineer: The WALL is busted! (Original post)
kpete Jan 12 OP
Hermit-The-Prog Jan 12 #1
JDC Jan 12 #2
Botany Jan 12 #4
radical noodle Jan 12 #7
USALiberal Jan 12 #10
JDC Jan 12 #20
Hortensis Jan 13 #28
shanny Jan 12 #15
JDC Jan 12 #21
shanny Jan 12 #24
JDC Jan 12 #26
ProfessorGAC Jan 13 #30
Fuzzpope Jan 12 #17
shanny Jan 12 #25
sl8 Jan 12 #22
tanyev Jan 12 #3
WePurrsevere Jan 12 #5
Maeve Jan 12 #14
BlueJac Jan 12 #6
sl8 Jan 12 #8
Martin Eden Jan 13 #27
Hortensis Jan 13 #32
The Blue Flower Jan 12 #9
BlancheSplanchnik Jan 12 #12
shanny Jan 12 #16
Hortensis Jan 13 #31
scarytomcat Jan 12 #19
BlancheSplanchnik Jan 12 #11
riverbendviewgal Jan 12 #13
Yavin4 Jan 12 #18
Hortensis Jan 13 #29
Yavin4 Jan 13 #34
Hortensis Jan 13 #35
UniteFightBack Jan 12 #23
Hortensis Jan 13 #33
Scurrilous Jan 13 #36

Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:07 AM

1. expert on everything ...


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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:09 AM

2. Interesting. "It messes with..." and "Messes w all kinds of stuff ecologically"

Makes this feel a little less engineer-y to me. I gotta be honest.

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Response to JDC (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:36 AM

4. She is spot on about the ecological downside of the wall.

The North American Jaguar
The Mexican Grey Wolf
The Desert Bighorn Sheep
Butterflies

and many other parts of the areas native ecology would be hammered by that stupid wall

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Response to JDC (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:50 AM

7. She isn't an environmental engineer

Let's be fair. It does mess with a lot of stuff, and only a person knowledgeable about that kind of science would be able to detail it properly. Most folks don't even think of the ecological damage.

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Response to JDC (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:49 AM

10. Wow, amazing that is your take away. nt

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Response to USALiberal (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 01:14 PM

20. What should my takeaway be? Validation that my current position is reinforced by the Facebook rant

of a wall expert? This is just more feel-good that you are on the right side of the issue. Was there something in this post that was relevatory for you? Eco impact, check. Can build a ladder to get over it, check. It will cost more that estimated, check.

She forgot the incalculable costs associated with eminent domain land grabs. But we should probably wait for the Facebook post blowing crater sized holes in the wall from a real estate agent for that. But only if that agent repeats several times that they have sold property before. Because when folks need land sellin', they call them in. Maybe tomorrow.






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Response to JDC (Reply #20)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:22 AM

28. She's a structural forensistist. :) Would you WANT such an expert to

try to address social, legal and environmental issues in detail? It's a layman-level summary of structural issues, which do involve environmental concerns. Not everyone's as informed as you are.

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Response to JDC (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:12 AM

15. d'you think, maybe, this is written for the general public?

you know, easy to understand terms w/o getting into the technical weeds that will just pass people by? (as engineers are known to do, at least in my experience)

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Response to shanny (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 01:16 PM

21. Perhaps. I am an engineer, so maybe this is my issue

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Response to JDC (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 03:15 PM

24. OK. I'm a member of the general public and I'm thinking I'm the target audience.

And if you are concerned about her bona fides, why not look her up?

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Response to shanny (Reply #24)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 04:20 PM

26. i am sorry if I offended.

My point is that her engineering background has no relevance to what she is saying. Anyone could have said that and we would have all said "yes, that's right" Eco, Costs, ladder, etc etc. how about a general contractor? Maybe an front loader or grader operator? They understand flooding, cost overruns, environmental impact.

Which point changed your mind? Or does it just make us feel better because of the engineering background - "Now our wall argument has merit because an engineer says so." This just reinforces what we already think. Those points matter not to those opposed - most certainly not because she has a forensic structural background. Were we worried about the wall falling down?
I think you underestimate the general public who do realize that the impact would/could be significant on many, many levels not the least of which were cost/overruns and the eco-system of the border lands/waters. The folks who want the wall don't care. At all.

Sorry if I offended, it was not my intent.

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Response to JDC (Reply #26)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:52 AM

30. Scientist Here, JDC

I had the same initial concerns, but went "general public" as others mentioned.
The one piece in her article that was not necessarily obvious is WHY the cost would grossly overrun.
And if this WAS written for the average person, then I think she did well.

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Response to JDC (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:20 AM

17. You're right.

 

Let's get a rebuttal from Trump's engineering team.

I'll just be over here, waiting.


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Response to Fuzzpope (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 03:18 PM

25. lol

well-played

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Response to JDC (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 03:03 PM

22. You're not the only one.

Overall, I thought it was an interesting piece with plenty of good points, but the 'it messes with" stuck out like a sore thumb to me. I don't think I could have gotten away with that in a junior high paper. Then again, I'm old.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:22 AM

3. Well, that's if you want to build it the right way.

If you just want it for show, and to funnel money to cronies, then $5.7 billion is a pretty good haul.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:42 AM

5. Excellent! FWIW here's the link to the engineer's OP on Facebook...

Someone shared it in the Twitter comments...
https://m.facebook.com/3002882/posts/10100902776405671/

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Response to WePurrsevere (Reply #5)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:04 AM

14. Thank you! Just shared it on my FB

If I get any complaints, I will suggest they go to her FB page and explain why they know more about walls than she does.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 09:49 AM

6. That sums it up...

no wall ever! TY

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:06 AM

8. Usable versions of links in OP:

...
. 3) The prototypes they came up with are nearly impossible to build or don’t actually do the job. This article explains more: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.engineering.com/amp/17599.html

[Which redirects to https://www.engineering.com/BIM/ArticleID/17599/Writing-on-the-Wall-Report-Suggests-Border-Project-Is-Off-Track-and-Over-Budget.aspx
Writing on the Wall: Report Suggests Border Project Is Off-Track and Over Budget]

And so on. The estimates provided for the cost are arrived at unreasonably. You can look for yourself at the two-year-old estimate that you see everyone citing. http://fronterasdesk.org/sites/default/files/field/docs/2016/07/Bernstein-%20The%20Trump%20Wall.pdf

...

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Response to sl8 (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:14 AM

27. Thanks, I wanted to share this.

Dems need to be pointing this out.

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Response to sl8 (Reply #8)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:57 AM

32. Thanks, sl8. I was just about to go cut and paste.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:10 AM

9. This isn't really about building a wall

This is about doing the bidding of Putin and bringing the US government and its people to their knees.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:50 AM

12. This.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:15 AM

16. I doubt if Putin is directing this

although he is no doubt enjoying it. This is a vanity project: "The Great Wall of Trump".

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Response to shanny (Reply #16)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:55 AM

31. Don't forget feeding expectations of their "red in tooth and claw" base.

WH leaks say Trump is terrified of losing their support. Post-WH prison seems quite possible if they turn on him.

As for Putin "no doubt enjoying it," fur sure. My guess is his aides include even the most ridiculous stuff in his morning briefings to get his day off to a good start.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:46 AM

19. this is a distraction, the old razzle dazzle,

slit of hand, misdirection to keep us off balance

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:49 AM

11. In your face fatass, with science and REALITY.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 10:51 AM

13. Everyone should share this

With friends, family and MSN. MSNBC, CNN. Print it and put on walls where people can see.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 11:28 AM

18. This analysis does not matter.

The wall is designed to make certain White people feel protected. That is its purpose.

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #18)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 07:28 AM

29. Yes, structural issues also matter. :) If you were going to stop

a bigoted neighbor from building a giant spite fence would you rather try by presenting accusations of bigotry to the city council or would it be helpful to point to text and/or intent of building codes it would violate?

I loved hearing Nancy Pelosi state right out that it was a moral issue, but that's hardly the only issue. It's not even the only important one. Happily, there are many. So many even a Republican-controlled congress with a wall-ranting electoral base wouldn't pass it.

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Response to Hortensis (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 10:47 AM

34. What if the city council is as bigoted as my neighbor? n/t

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Response to Yavin4 (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 01:23 PM

35. Building code rules.

It's good to have right on our side in many ways. As we do.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sat Jan 12, 2019, 03:08 PM

23. Even though you are a racist it should not mean you lack COMMON SENSE. nt

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 08:37 AM

33. "Border Walls Get Teched Out"

Another article from the engineering.com website linked in this article. This is just technology available right now, not what's coming, but frankly the "invisible wall" is potentially a lot scarier than one we can climb over. We must get liberals and others devoted to the rights of the people in control of government.

"And, more than almost any border wall before it, the new border replaces on-the-scene manpower with surveillance devices like underground motion sensors, remote-operated cameras, long-range radar towers, aerostats (balloons and blimps) and drones.

Currently, there are more than 12,000 remote sensors buried along the border and three radar-enabled towers that can track people from up to 7 miles away. Both systems are linked with centralized cameras, so that any disturbances can be monitored by Border Patrol agents in a centralized location. Agents should be able to pick up on disturbances, monitor them for their level of “threat,” and only leave their locations to deal with actual attempted border-crossings. CBP also has a small fleet of Predator drones that enable the agency to photograph huge swathes of the border from the air.

Remote sensors are particularly useful in the Rio Grande Valley section of the border, where protected natural parks prevent border agents from clearing dense foliage around the border. Manuel Padilla Jr., the Border Patrol sector chief for the area, told the New York Times that more sensors are necessary to secure the area: “In the absence of being able to get in there, we need to be able to see what’s going on so we can catch drug trafficking and other activity before those who are doing it reach cities in the region.”

As heavy-tech as the areas between crossings are, the “invisible wall” becomes even stronger at the areas around authorized crossings. At crossover points like the one in Hidalgo, Texas, automatic license plate readers (ALPRs) take photos of the license plates, cars and drivers of border-crossing cars, which are then run through a database that holds information about criminal records and immigration law violations. Even if the search doesn’t trigger an alert, the information the ALPR collects is stored in the database, giving Border Patrol officials a complete record of who has crossed the border, and when.

But perhaps the most advanced use of border security technology may be used far away from the border: the use of biometric information at airports. U.S. Customs and Border Protection’s Biometric Air Exit program takes travelers' biometric information as they leave the United States by air. In 2004, CBP developed a program that uses fingerprints for biometric identification, and it’s currently developing and expanding a facial recognition program. These programs are implemented in partnership with airlines. And the Goodlatte-McCaul bill, which is currently making its way through Congress, would expand the use of biometric information even further, allowing CBP to take biometric information from everyone leaving the U.S.

At the 2016 Annual Border Security Expo in San Antonio, FLIR Systems sales rep Bryan Block jokingly told VICE, “I'd tell Mr. Trump we can build him a wall—a radar wall, of 360-degree radar surveillance.” Today, that invisible wall is looking less and less like a joke.

https://www.engineering.com/BIM/ArticleID/16775/Border-Walls-Get-Teched-Out.aspx?e_src=relart

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Sun Jan 13, 2019, 06:44 PM

36. K&R

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