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Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:29 PM

Speaking of BuzzFeed

One of my closest associates told me about the BuzzFeed article minutes after it was published. I said, “That makes sense.” He said, “Be careful on this one.” I said that they had broke important stories on the Trump crime family. He agreed, and noted they have some outstanding journalists working for them. So I asked what the problem was? He said to look closely at two things: first, the article hinted that there were sources from the Mueller team, and second, there is a significant difference between Trump personally telling Cohen to lie, and someone like Jared telling Cohen that Trump wanted him to lie. Or, possibly telling Cohen to inform others in the White House that he would testify that the Trump Tower Moscow business ended in January,so that they would parrot the same lie.

After discussing some related issues, I thought I should pen a quick essay for this forum. I decided to write it after training my two fighters for their January 27 bouts in the Golden Gloves. However, being old, tired, and forgetful, I did not. I want to be clear here: I had originally believed the report was likely accurate, but considered passing on another person's advice. It wasn't something that I came up with myself.

Let's look at a few issues objectively. I know that good people can have different views that they feel very strongly about. But let's put feelings and emotions to the side. There are no sources from the Mueller Team passing secrets to any journalist. There may be sources who work, or have worked, with FBI investigators on other cases, and they may believe what they told the two journalists. Or the journalists may have misunderstood what they said. Or the sources may have fed them misinformation, especially if the sources are connected to a small group of active and retired investigators from the NYC area.

It is also legitimate to look closely at one or both of the journalists. In this case, although it was more than a decade ago, one of them engaged in a series of actions that discredited him. However, it is also important to remember that people can and do learn from mistakes and change. Not everyone does, of course …..something Rubin Carter said to me years ago comes to mind: “Wise people learn from others' mistakes. Most of us have to learn from our own. And fools? Fools never learn.”

Both sources and reporters can be accurate 95% of the time. That's important. But that other 5% is important, too. One should consider if these are honest mistakes, careless errors, seemingly correct conclusions on realistic theories, or purposeful misleading efforts to discredit an individual, group or organization, or movement. Everyone has the right to their own opinion on this. I see no need to express my own at this time.

However, I would like to say that we are at a point in this country where there is benefits found in removing emotion to the extent possible, and taking an objective look at events as they unfold. Try to think of various options that may be involved. This will help us to realize that, despite a few more bumps in the road up ahead, the Trump presidency is in shambles, and will soon come to an abrupt end.

Peace,
H2O Man

19 replies, 3370 views

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 19 replies Author Time Post
Reply Speaking of BuzzFeed (Original post)
H2O Man Jan 2019 OP
woofless Jan 2019 #1
H2O Man Jan 2019 #2
BannonsLiver Jan 2019 #11
dalton99a Jan 2019 #3
malaise Jan 2019 #4
Liberal Jesus Freak Jan 2019 #5
coeur_de_lion Jan 2019 #6
LineReply .
Fuzzpope Jan 2019 #7
Mr.Bill Jan 2019 #8
marylandblue Jan 2019 #10
Jeffersons Ghost Jan 2019 #9
Scurrilous Jan 2019 #12
Enoki33 Jan 2019 #13
mountain grammy Jan 2019 #14
Pepsidog Jan 2019 #15
sellitman Jan 2019 #16
suffragette Jan 2019 #17
pnwmom Jan 2019 #18
kentuck Jan 2019 #19

Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:35 PM

1. Raise a glass to abrupt ends.

Cheers.

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Response to woofless (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:38 PM

2. Right!

(As I don't drink, I'll toast Trump's abrupt end by lighting up. Old men need to listen to their doctors about dealing with pains!)

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 11:16 PM

11. Lighting up what?


Just kidding. I thoroughly enjoyed your post. Made me think.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:43 PM

3. Kick

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:47 PM

4. I agree with you

The end is nigh!

Great OP

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:59 PM

5. Once again...

...a brilliant, thoughtful, and calm view of our current events. Thank you

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 09:59 PM

6. I guess the important thing to remember here is that

Last edited Sun Jan 20, 2019, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)

Mueller's team does not leak.

The article mentioned a leak or talked about the way Mueller team obtained some evidence in a way that the team recognized never happened.

So I suppose the Mueller team had to say something or else people would keep reporting fake leaks.

While it is almost certainly true that trump directed Cohen to lie, it didn't happen quite the way the article said it did.

Here is a Washington Post article that explains why Mueller's office responded in the way that they did:

[link:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/inside-the-mueller-teams-decision-to-dispute-buzzfeeds-explosive-story-on-trump-and-cohen/2019/01/19/d89dba5b-fa0f-445b-9fd3-72f0e911e28d_story.html?utm_term=.2b280e2e3c92|

“BuzzFeed’s description of specific statements to the Special Counsel’s Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen’s congressional testimony are not accurate,” he wrote.

People familiar with the matter said the special counsel’s office meant the statement to be a denial of the central theses of the BuzzFeed story — particularly those that referenced what Cohen had told the special counsel, and what evidence the special counsel had gathered.


The Buzzfeed article may have been mostly accurate but the mistakes they made caused an uproar -- that 5% you speak of can drown out the other 95% when we are thisclose to getting rid of Individual 1 for good. Individual 1 will grab at ANYTHING that is even slightly favorable to him.

So I am curious about this paragraph that you wrote:

One should consider if these are honest mistakes, careless errors, seemingly correct conclusions on realistic theories, or purposeful misleading efforts to discredit an individual, group or organization, or movement. Everyone has the right to their own opinion on this. I see no need to express my own at this time.


I really wish you would give us a hint about what you personally believe. Your opinion is valued here.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 10:49 PM

7. .

 

Most worthy voice on this entire forum, my personal favorite.

Thanks for this, and all your previous shafts of light piercing this growing black.

Cheers.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 10:51 PM

8. I am wondering if their sources

might be not people who are working with Mueller, but maybe people who have been questioned by Mueller's team, and they drew a conclusion based on questions that were asked of them.

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 10:57 PM

10. They said law enforcement officials with knowledge of the investigation.

I'd say the most likely candidates are in the New York FBI office who may have seen the documents from Cohen's office and are known to leak.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 10:55 PM

9. K&R good point! Claiming that Mueller's team is leaking information discredits the investigation.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 11:42 PM

12. K&R

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sat Jan 19, 2019, 11:52 PM

13. Glad l was able to read what you wrote. It reminded me to try

to maintain objectivity in these emotional times, and that there is a far bigger picture soon to be fully viewed.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2019, 12:06 AM

14. Thanks for this.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2019, 12:19 AM

15. I doubt Anyone on Mueller's side leaked. Makes sense Mueller's statement is consistent

with H20’s reasoning that Trump indirectly through other people spread what he was going to say. But ultimately, Jr. Jared and gang aren’t as smart as they think, and I’m sure they spread the lies through electronic communications that Mueller has.

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2019, 12:49 AM

16. You are one of the Crown Jewels Of DU.

My personal favorite read.

Thank you for the effort and thought behind this and many of your posts. Always thought provoking and informative. We will survive the Trump Mis-administration together.

Cheers,

Kevin

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2019, 05:25 AM

17. K&R

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2019, 05:48 AM

18. "So, Michael, Jared and I have been talking," says the Orange One,

"and we don't remember any discussion of the Moscow Tower after about January or so. So it all ended before the campaign really began."

The Orange One snorts a hit of whatever he snorts. Then he says, "So I know you're going to have to testify. Of course I want you to tell the truth. Just tell the truth and everything will be fine. And let me see whatever written statement you put together. Just run it by me, okay?"

Snort, snort.

"And make sure you give Alan the invoice for your work. Whatever it costs. Thanks, Michael!"

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Response to H2O Man (Original post)

Sun Jan 20, 2019, 08:45 AM

19. It was amazing to me how quickly the story was questioned and corrected.

If we could only get such an effort from Donald Trump's White House.

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