If you need an investigation to figure out if you were in Klan hood or blackface . . .

[kpete]

yeah, you shouldn't be in public office.

The governor has also been calling his former med school classmates to jog their memories. He does NOT think he is the man in Klan hood or blackface and doesn’t want to resign before trying to determine who is in that photo.

Link to tweet

[manor321]

1. LOL

“Hey. Yeah, it’s Ralph from medical school. Not great. No, I’m a governor now but not great. Anyway, weird question”

Link to tweet

"for understandable reasons I thought I could have been the blackface guy or the klan guy, but now I realize I was not actually in *that* photo of blackface guy and klan guy..."

Link to tweet

Get this clown out now!

[yardwork]

9. Twitter responses are right on target.

[MineralMan]

2. Yah, OK, then, Governor...

How'd that photo get on your yearbook page? Surely you remember that part...

[dixiegrrrrl]

30. Well, they both have beer cans in their hands.

Maybe a Kavanaugh defense???

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE VOLUNTEER TO TAKE ONE FOR THE GOVERNOR

[Alpeduez21]

4. There is only ONE way confusion

of whether that's YOUR photo of you in blackface or klan sheets and it is you wore blackface or klan sheets.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

5. 35 years ago, though. People do grow and change.

Maybe we shouldn't judge people by their worst selves 35 years ago, but by who they are now. If you had a photo of someone in a Klan robe or blackface from 2015, this would be a different discussion.

But 35 years ago?

[JHB]

7. The unconvincing evasion is not happening 35 years ago, it's happening 35 minutes ago.

[yardwork]

12. Perfect response.

[MaryMagdaline]

17. Best. Reply. Ever

[WhiskeyGrinder]

11. Either his campaign knew about it, and didn't think it was important to address, or he didn't

tell them about it, because he didn't think it was important to address. Both possibilities say a lot about who he and his team are now.

[Shemp Howard]

14. The time span really doesn't matter.

I am quite willing to accept that Gov. Northam might be a changed man, very different from the one in that yearbook.

But even if that were true, he can no longer be an effective leader. Everything he does going forward will be suspect. For the good of the party and the state, Northam should resign.

[Polybius]

36. The time span does matter to some extent

If he were very old and this was the 40's, it would bot be the same as the mid-80's.

[MaryMagdaline]

15. Never more important than being earnest, today, Mr Moncrieff

The governor blew it

[Algernon Moncrieff]

54. I like what you did there

I get where everyone else is coming from here. I just think that the worst version of yourself in 1984 isn't necessarily who you are now. Also, I'm tired of Republicans not being consistently held to the same standard.

[Codeine]

21. Oh fuck that.

If an intelligent, grown man in medical school in the mid-80s thought that blackface and Klan robes were the very height of humor then I’m perfectly willing to write him off as an elected representative for all time. That’s just too many levels of dumb for me to cope with.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

25. Hmmm

I was with the GOP for a while because I really thought that it was a party that was principled in its conservative approach to economics and to markets.

So it's OK that Elizabeth Warren was part of the party of Nixon; the party of the Southern Strategy; and the party of the war on the working class, but who later saw the light. She didn't see the light until the 90s.

People learn and evolve. 1984 is a lifetime ago.

[Codeine]

27. There is a world of difference between

holding conservative political or economic views and blackface/Klan regalia.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

28. As my grandma would say - it depends whose ox is gored

Those conservative economic views advanced by Reagan hurt a lot of people, and the GOP essentially embraced racism starting with Nixon.

If we're going to have purity tests, let's be consistent.

[EffieBlack]

39. Considering that the "purity tests" you're decrying for the most part involve racism and harm to

minorities, I think that you should be more respectful of how black people are weighting the relative wrongdoing.

And I think that most of us see world of difference between belonging to a party that we disagree with and even think does us harm and ignoring the behavior of a man who proudly engaged in openly racist and viscerally impactful (to us) behavior.

We don't need lectures telling us we're applying "purity tests" incorrectly or inconsistently from people whose oxes generally avoid being gored.

[Squinch]

50. I feel certain that if he had an impressive record of defending civil rights and advancing the

causes of people of color at every opportunity, we would have heard about it in the context of this discussion. If I were hearing people who defended him and said that his actions since then were inconsistent with his actions then, I would have pause about wanting him out.

I'm not really seeing any of that.

[JHB]

6. Is he claiming memory loss? Or that he'd dressed that way so often that he can't...

...remember if he was dressed in blackface or Klan hood for that particular party?

If he doesn't know, it implies he he's dressed in both roles. Repeatedly.

[Rorey]

8. When someone takes a really bad situation and makes it worse

Shall we start a pool on how much longer he lasts? My guess is 44 hours. Monday morning he'll give a tearful speech.

[EffieBlack]

10. Yes

If you're not sure that was you in the photo in blackface or KKK robes ... well.

[mr_lebowski]

13. As far as MY PERSONAL college days went, I couldn't tell your for the LIFE OF ME every costume I

ever wore, or didn't wear. And it was just about that long ago.

It's incorrect to assert that 'not being able to recall' something like this means 'oh he must've done it so many times'.

In fact, that's pretty much backwards.

Having only done so one time ... is a FAR more logical reason to honestly NOT remember if you EVER did it. And if you honestly don't remember, it could also be because nobody thought much of anything about blackface ... in 1984. If he knew he was a freaking racist, and dressed this way to ridicule black people, he would have NO DOUBT that it was truly himself.

However, granted, the question does remain ... is he being honest about not remembering?

Has anyone confirmed yet whether it was 'his choice' to include that particular picture? Obviously he picked and provided the others, but it's not at all uncommon for yearbooks to include a pic or two ... NOT chosen by the Student.

I will stipulate, however, that IF he came out and said 'yeah was me' yesterday (I've seen that reported but haven't like seen an interview or anything), he seriously F***ED up if he had any doubts. He for sure should've said "To the best of my knowledge, I am not in this photo, but I will be looking into the possibility that I was ... ummmm ... drinking ... at a college halloween party ... and thus don't recall". Or something to that effect.

It does look pretty bad to try to change the story the next day, again, assuming he did claim it was him ... yesterday.

[Squinch]

16. Are you saying you can't be sure you didn't put on a kkk hood and

robes and go out on the town when you were in your 20's?

Really?

[mr_lebowski]

18. I'm positive I never wore a KKK costume because I know myself ... I'd have never have worn that

no matter what, not even ironically as a couple going out as 'black person and kkk'er' on halloween as some kind of joke. No way.

But Blackface? I'd be 99.9% sure I never did, but not 100%. And I grew up and went to school in Cali, not Virginia.

The general attitude about the rudeness of blackface has changed fairly dramatically since 1984.

This is 1976, but things hadn't changed much in the intervening 8 years ... nobody came down on Wilder for this at the time ...

[Squinch]

20. You can't be sure you never went out on the town in blackface while you were in your 20's?

That is what you are telling us?

[mr_lebowski]

23. First off, the photo does not appear to be 'out on the town', but rather a private residence ...

Like I said, I'm 99.9% sure.

For CERTAIN, if I EVER did, it would have been because my costume was specifically of a Black character. Like, Huggy Bear or something like that.

BTW, how do you know for sure the pic is of Northam when he's in his 20's? It's in a yearbook from when he was 25. So what you actually know is he's 25 ... or younger ... in the pic, assuming it is in fact him. Right?

[Squinch]

26. Okie dokie. And you think if he was in medical school but younger than 25, it would make

a difference?

And you think if it was in a private residence rather than a bar it would make a difference?

And you're still not totally sure you never went out in blackface in your 20s?

Are you sure these are things you want to be saying?

[JHB]

22. If you can't say 100%, man, what were you on back then?

And c'mon? the scene from Silver Streak? Which was so deliberately unconvincing that it was part of the joke that it worked?

Against the coal-black & wig in the 1984 photo? He doesn't remember that or a Klan hood?

Not buying it.

[mr_lebowski]

33. What was I 'on'?

'What did I NEVER take a single time while in college?' would be a better question ... so, lets see ... heroin?

I think that mostly covers it

[JHB]

19. Not buying it. if this was the only time he dressed that way...

...whichever one it might have been, that would be the sort of thing that would stick in the memory. He wouldn't need to "determine" whether he was either of the two.

[mr_lebowski]

31. You're interjecting the idea that 'at this particular party' is part of the equation.

Nobody gives a crap whether he did it at any one particular party. It matters if he EVER did it.

If he only did so once, it's MORE likely he could legitimately 'not remember'.

Conversely, the more TIMES he did it, the LESS likely it is he might legitimately 'not remember'.

I don't how you could not grok this math, my friend

[JHB]

38. "If he only did so once, it's MORE likely he could legitimately 'not remember'."?

Bunk. Utter Bunk.

In my earlier post upthread I added the quip about "this particular party" because I find a claim of "I'm not sure if it was me" -- when there is a photo to jog one's memory -- roundly incredible and unconvincing. Not even a "Oh, geez, yeah, THAT party..."?

I'm not actually accusing him of repeatedly dressing up that way, just that "don't remember a particular instance" would be a lot more convincing than "gosh, I'm not sure of one of the people in that picture is me."

[EffieBlack]

24. I don't remember every costume I wore

But I can tell you unequivocally that I never dressed as a Klansman or a Nazi or in any other way designed to purposely denigrate or evoke and violent history of any group or race.

If dressing this way was so unremarkable to him that he doesn't remember it, that's a pretty serious problem.

[mr_lebowski]

29. And I disagree on this point, as I've said many times ...

I have little doubt that it WAS, in fact, fairly unremarkable in 1984, in Virginia, to wear a costume for halloween, and put on blackface. Not saying it was 'appropriate' ... EVER, really ... but I don't concur that not recalling having done so in that era is a serious problem.

Now ... the Klan hood ... that's another story. IF he's the one in the Klan hood ... then I'm all aboard on firing Northam's ass. ANYBODY should've known not to dress that way, even in 1984.

I'd also point out that it's also possible the two people in the photo had nothing to do with each other before the party, but the photographer saw both characters there and said 'Hey why don't you two pose together, that'll be funny!'

Honestly I'm leaning toward 'there's no way out of not resigning' at this point, but I would like to hear the man's honest explanation before I get 100% behind it.

Granted I'm not a PoC, and I'm not trying to tell any POC how THEY should feel about this, to be clear ...

[Squinch]

32. Sigh. Are you saying that if a white man is part of a duo going to a halloween

party in 1984 as a klansman and a man in blackface, it is OK if he is the guy in the blackface, but not the guy in the klan outfit?

This is what you are saying?

[mr_lebowski]

35. How do you know they went together? You actually don't. You just know they're in 1 pic together.

But let's say they did.

What if the person in the Klansman outfit is actually the white dude in blackface's ... Black Girlfriend?

What if it was her idea to dress that way, because the theme of costume party they were at was 'Opposite Night', and she thought it would be funny, and everyone would know it's her, and they'd all get the joke?

What if the 'Coonman' nickname was put in the yearbook by asshole's at the school who were making fun of him ... cause he dated black girls?

I think the real disconnect a lot of people are having with me here is that attitudes were very different in 1984, even in Cali where I am from. I can easily imagine how different they were in Virginia in 1984.

And personally I'd like to hear further details behind this picture before I conclude the man is a raging racist ... based on that picture.

[Squinch]

37. I personally remember that attitudes were NOT all that different in 1984, that klan outfits and

black face were NOT acceptable in any way.

I think the disconnect here is that there were raging racists in 1984 and there are raging racists today, many of whom would deny to their last breath that they are or were raging racists.

[mr_lebowski]

44. Okay, so that's what you recollect ...

You know, sometimes, what we 'recall' about 'how things were 35 years ago' ... is not entirely accurate.

And that's especially true when we try to recollect 'what was socially acceptable', and even MORE so when we try to assert a 'universality' to it.

It may very well have been NOT acceptable IN ANY WAY ... to Squinch. Or maybe also 'most people you know'.

In fact, maybe even 'everybody knew this', as you seem to suggest.

IOW, maybe you're right.

But I think ... I'm right. People were simply not NEARLY as racially sensitive in 1984. As a general rule. Probably especially so in places like Virginia.

Bottom-line, you have your frame of reference and recollections, and I have mine.

So this why we have a disconnect here. Not good, not bad, agree to disagree.

BTW, again, we don't actually know the picture was taken in 1984. Or that Northam is 25 in the picture (assuming it's him). We just know he's 25 or younger (if him), and the pic is from 1984 or before.

Good day my friend.

[Squinch]

45. You're twisting yourself into pretzels to try to make this less disgusting than it is.

You might want to think about that.

[mr_lebowski]

46. Okay, I've thought about it ...

I have a very high degree of loyalty to the Democratic Party, and the gains that our side clawed back in 2018. I don't want to our side to lose power, outside of a scenario where a Democrat has done something egregiously wrong/hurtful towards people, or animals, or the environment. It's TOO FUCKING IMPORTANT to the Nation, to the WORLD, and to the ENVIRONMENT ... that Dems (even those with some not-perfect bona-fides) gain and hold onto every bit of power that they can.

I don't expect that (though I would LOVE IT) every Democrat, in every state, meets my personal 'Grew Up Liberal in the CA Bay Area' litmus test.

SO ... based on what I NOW KNOW ... the existence of this 35 y.o. photo does not override my loyalty threshold.

It's pretty much that simple.

[Squinch]

47. Got it. Translation: blatant racism is just fine as long you can manufacture an end to justify the

means.

[mr_lebowski]

48. No ... 35 year old evidence of POSSIBLE racism doesn't overcome my loyalty threshold to the

Democratic Party.

I need to see more than 1 distasteful pic from 35 years ago ... to convince me that Northam secretly has racist views, and hence (and most importantly) is likely to purposefully NOT act in the interest of African Americans, and would instead favor the interests of White Americans.

I'm not apologizing for the fact that this is presently my threshold when it comes to Dems, and this subject.

[Squinch]

49. No one is expecting you to apologize. No one is expecting a guy who can't exactly remember

if he used to go out in blackface, and who is grasping at every straw to justify and excuse this racism, to apologize for his position.

[mr_lebowski]

52. Whatever, Squinch. I don't consider it definitive proof of racism, and you do ... clearly

And as I explained above, it's because I remember 1984 differently than you do.

It constitutes evidence of bad judgement, and POSSIBLE racism, but not conclusive racism.

As I've said, I'm 99.9% sure I never put on black makeup as part of a costume, but because it was College, I'm simply reserving a very small possibility that ... I did something I don't remember anymore. I guess you're lucky enough to have NEVER found out you did something ... that you later couldn't recall. How fortunate for you.

Good day ...

[EffieBlack]

55. Blackface and Klan robes is not evidence of "POSSIBLE racism"

Good Lord, those goalposts move around so much, they must be on wheels.

When we talk about racist things people say, we're told to stop interpreting what they meant because we can't know what's in their hearts, we don't have evidence of them actually doing anything racist, blah blah blah.

And here we have a PHOTOGRAPH of a governor as a GROWN-ASSED MAN either in BLACKFACE or KLAN ROBES and now we get "meh! That's not NECESSARILY evidence of RACISM!"


HE'S IN A PICTURE WEARING EITHER BLACKFACE OR A DAMNED KU KLUX KLAN ROBE!!!

Damn, people.

Just damn.

[EffieBlack]

40. No.

1984 in Virginia wasn't ancient history. That was the year that Jesse Jackson ran for president. And just 5 years later, the state elected a black governor.

He doesn't get off the hook because he behaved like the lowest common denominator in his state. His state also had plenty of people who DIDN'T behave or believe that way. He doesn't get a pass.

[mr_lebowski]

42. I understand your feeling that way, Effie (nt)

[maxsolomon]

34. Possibilities:

1. it's NOT him, and the photo was put on his page as a prank by classmates who nicknamed him "coonman".

2. he was nicknamed "coonman" by bigoted classmates because he was unusually cordial and respectful to African American classmates.

or

3. he was nicknamed "coonman" because he fed raccoons off his back porch.

I'm sure there's an innocent explanation!

[mr_lebowski]

41. I'd certainly not be sure there's an innocent explanation ...

But the possibility there is a much less offensive explanation ... also exists, and you've elaborated on what they could be.

I realize you're ridiculing these possibilities, and they are admittedly 'less likely', but they're far from impossible.

[maxsolomon]

53. i'd actually prefer the explaination to be 1 & 2.

i'm not holding my breath.

and people, DON'T FEED RACCOONS.

[nocoincidences]

43. I would like to know more about the "coonman"

nickname, myself.

And as someone who moved to Virginia from Texas, native Virginians, particularly the ones living in the south and central part of Virginia, are very prejudiced; it was surprising to me after living in Texas and hearing the term 'wetback' roll off the tongue of older Texas ranch women.

I don't know why I expected Va. to be better, but they really are not...at all.

[tymorial]

51. Oh for ffs

Just resign already.