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Tue Feb 5, 2019, 09:55 AM

If an elected official is accused, without corroboration, of committing sexual assault 15 years ago,

and he denies it uncategorically, would you insist that he shouldn't step down from his office and remove the possibility he'll become the next governor because: 1) the accusation was first made public by right-wing ratf*ckers; 2) there's no proof that an assault ever occurred; 3) even if an assault took place, there's no evidence he ever assaulted any women before or since; 4) he has consistently supported women's rights throughout his political career; and 5) if he steps down, a Republican could become governor?

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Reply If an elected official is accused, without corroboration, of committing sexual assault 15 years ago, (Original post)
Empowerer Feb 2019 OP
Clash City Rocker Feb 2019 #1
Zoonart Feb 2019 #2
Squinch Feb 2019 #6
dalton99a Feb 2019 #8
NewJeffCT Feb 2019 #17
Empowerer Feb 2019 #5
NewJeffCT Feb 2019 #16
Empowerer Feb 2019 #18
NewJeffCT Feb 2019 #19
Empowerer Feb 2019 #20
NewJeffCT Feb 2019 #21
bigtree Feb 2019 #3
Demit Feb 2019 #11
WhiskeyGrinder Feb 2019 #4
DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2019 #7
Takket Feb 2019 #9
Demit Feb 2019 #12
MrsCoffee Feb 2019 #10
Empowerer Feb 2019 #13
MrsCoffee Feb 2019 #14
loyalsister Feb 2019 #23
Caliman73 Feb 2019 #15
msongs Feb 2019 #22

Response to Empowerer (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:03 AM

1. The obvious answer is an investigation

If the official is forced to resign, then anyone could make up a story and force anyone out. If the official is always allowed to stay in office, then elected officials are above the law. Both of those would be disastrous. The solution is an independent investigation to determine if the accusation is true.

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Response to Clash City Rocker (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:08 AM

2. Al Franken CALLED for an investigation...

he was forced out without one.

The Washington Post has had this information for a while, have done their own preliminary investigation and decided NOT to run with this story.
This is a RATFUCk and the Democrats had better learn how to deal with them, because the RFers have learned how to weaponize our sense of decency and morality.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:16 AM

6. He called for an investigation and he resigned before it took place.

He shouldn't have resigned. I love the guy, but its on him.

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:22 AM

8. +1. Franken had a mob running after him with knives

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Response to Zoonart (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 11:16 AM

17. Franken was accused by 8 different women

Fairfax has been only one.

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Response to Clash City Rocker (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:15 AM

5. What kind of "investigation" are you proposing?

The Washington Post looked into it and couldn't substantiate it. Should a committee investigate it? The police? An independent commission?

And how credible should an accusation be before an investigation is triggered? Is a post on Facebook that doesn't name names but gets screen grabbed and sent to a right wing website and then published sufficient basis to launch an investigation?

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Response to Empowerer (Reply #5)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 11:14 AM

16. something independent

Chris Hardwick of AMC TV's Talking Dead show was accused of similar by his ex girlfriend. AMC suspended Hardwick pending an investigation and installed Yvette Nicole Brown as hostess while they looked into Hardwick. They hired an outside firm to investigate and it was determined the charges were without merit and Hardwick returned to his position.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #16)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 11:37 AM

18. Do you think a Facebook comment is enough to merit an independent investigation?

Does it matter that the Washington Post already looked into it and found nothing?

This is very different than the situation you described. That was an ex-girlfriend who described in great detail years of emotional and physical abuse. The situation was in no way similar to this.

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Response to Empowerer (Reply #18)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 11:40 AM

19. No, it's not enough

but, when they NY Times starts questioning Fairfax, it's obviously risen a level in significance.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #19)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 11:48 AM

20. Really?

This is the biggest trap in the book.

A right wing website floats an accusation. The MSM reports on the allegation and ask questions. Then there's something to the story because "questions are now being raised."

The Washington Post did more than just ask some questions. They actually investigated the allegations and came up with nothing. Shouldn't that be factored into the discussion?

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Response to Empowerer (Reply #20)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 11:51 AM

21. I'd need to dig for it

but, they questioned Fairfax's response to the woman.

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Response to Empowerer (Original post)


Response to bigtree (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:24 AM

11. Seems clear that the OP is about the accusation against the Lt Governor, not Northam.

 

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Response to Empowerer (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:12 AM

4. We went through this in MN with Keith Ellison, who was elected as AG as he was dealing with

allegations and investigations into the allegations.

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Response to Empowerer (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:19 AM

7. Justin Fairfax is entitled to the presumption of innocence.

A person's life shouldn't be destroyed over uncorroborated allegations. On the proverbial other hand I will be crushed if it's true. I have been consistent in applying the same measure to my friends as my opponents, actually I expect more from the former. I don't want to rehash other battles but I have been consistent in not without holding my disapproval of Democratic leaders, some with large followings on this board.

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Response to Empowerer (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:22 AM

9. Ask Brett Kavanaugh

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Response to Takket (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:28 AM

12. Kavanaugh wasn't being forced to step down from the office he held.

 

He was on a job interview. He could've gone right back to his old job if he didn't get the new one.

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Response to Empowerer (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:24 AM

10. "3) even if an assault took place, there's no evidence he ever assaulted a woman before or since..."

Nah. I didnít really just read that here. That is beyond the pale even hypothetically.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:36 AM

13. Seriously?

You must have missed all of the "Even if that IS Northam in blackface with the Klansman, there's no evidence he's done anything racist since then so it's not fair to hold that against him" defenses all over this site.

You may object to that kind of defense, but it's certainly not beyond the pale here.

And, FYI, this isn't really a hypothetical because it's based on actual truth, not an assumption of truth.

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Response to Empowerer (Reply #13)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:54 AM

14. Of course I object.

The fact that people are using that defense doesnít make it any less objectionable.

Iíve probably missed a lot of threads about a lot of things in the last week.

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Response to MrsCoffee (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 12:26 PM

23. It's like the "but it's not illegal" defense

Most of the sexual harassment is not. It does violate policies and basic decency. The spectrum is wide, only because the protection of aggressors has provided ground for it to expand under the guise of unaddressed "gray areas."
The rhetorical protection efforts typically use twisted logic, but "it's not illegal" and there are not enough instances of bad behavior to take it seriously are the ones I find most frustrating.

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Response to Empowerer (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 11:05 AM

15. Due process

The source of the allegations is always relevant. The allegation against Farifax is not new and out of the blue, however, it was not pursued because of lack of clear information. Right wingers don't care. They are using the current climate, which is powerful and positive for women, but in a sinister way because Right wingers couldn't care less about women. Fairfax is approaching the situation the only way possible from his perspective.

If the assault took place, then there is no alternative but for him to step down too. No if and or but. The problem is that we have two different perspectives and nothing that would definitively show who is more factually accurate. Unlike Kavanaugh where there were multiple sources supporting Ford's claim and she had shared the information with others prior to the accusation being made public, the only thing Fairfax's accuser did was go to the Washington Post during the election and shop a story. Like I said though, if he actually did assault the woman, then he has no place in a position of power. What he has or hasn't done after is irrelevant.

What we need is to see how this situation proceeds.

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Response to Empowerer (Original post)

Tue Feb 5, 2019, 12:13 PM

22. what does the police report she filed say? nt

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