Warren listed race as 'American Indian' on Texas bar registration

[LexVegas]

"Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren listed her race as "American Indian" on a State Bar of Texas registration card in 1986, the Washington Post reported Tuesday."

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/05/politics/warren-american-indian-texas-bar/index.html

[stonecutter357]

1. wow

[exboyfil]

6. It actually makes it worse if that was the motivation

It fits into the GOP narrative of set asides.

If this is true, then she should have disclosed it years ago when she first entered politics. I don't see how she can immunize herself now.

[UniteFightBack]

12. Yes I guess it does make it worse but at least I could see as to the why because I don't

understand WHY she would do it. I don't even lie about my heritage on internet surveys although I am tempted because I really do want to qualify for more surveys !!

[Loki Liesmith]

13. Don't worry about it.

This confers exactly zero advantage on Warren. You could put “potato” in that slot and it wouldn’t matter.

[Loki Liesmith]

16. She did it because she believed it obviously

[DURHAM D]

23. What college and for what consideration? nt

[UniteFightBack]

160. OMG I'm really laughing at myself at this one....

That's what happens when you 'read' and post in the am before coffee!!

[lapucelle]

77. No. Read the story. N/T

[delisen]

111. It says Bar Registration.She would have completed law school and passed bar?

[UniteFightBack]

159. Oh my goodness....I shouldn't be reading...well really skimming in the morning and posting!

Oops!

[mucifer]

3. Sounds like she will not be the next President. Lying is not good. President Obama wrote about

doing cocaine in his autobiography. The truth disabled that line of attack from republicans. She put herself in that mess and I don't see how she is going to get out of it. It would be different of course if the community accepted her . But, they don't.

[LenaBaby61]

50. Sounds like she will not be the next President.

Nope. She'll get this thrown up in her face continually now.

I'm half Native American, and I'm becoming more and more put off by these continuing revelations. Yes, I get that she has some Native Ancestry and says that she's proud of that, but these latest revelations, if true, pretty much disqualify her from the presidency. They're piling up Besides, she's not trump and she can't get away with what that HOG can and has his whole white, male, elitist, racist, treasonous life.

[jalan48]

4. Wasn't she a Republican in 1986?

[TexasBushwhacker]

115. Before 1996, yes n/t

[Hortensis]

117. Yes. I'm remembering Judy right now, unlike Warren still Republican,

who's very proud of her indigenous heritage from generations back. She's as white physically and culturally as Warren, but that link has always been something she likes about herself. I'm sure it never crossed her mind -- until these days -- that telling people she was "part" Osage would be offensive or damaging to that tribe. And may refuse to accept it now. I won't be asking.

Times change. Martin Luther King spoke of black, red, yellow, white and brown people. Red and yellow for sure are now considered intensely racist and hurtful, brown also probably.

Peculiarly, black and white are considered perfectly fine, in spite of how often they're indispensable to pretend-respectable racist insults. But just wait. It seems quite likely eventually our children will be hiding the nasty truth that we routinely used those ugly racist terms from their children.

Well, poor Warren. Whatever her intent then, listing this as her only heritage may have seemed harmless and even innocent then, long before such casual indulgences were weaponized, but not now. Poor us.

[SharonClark]

132. Maybe explain that she was a republican back then and has seen the error of her ways?

Still doesn't work for me.

[jalan48]

140. I was kinda thinking the same thing. At the time she probably had no idea of the scrutiny she

would come under later in her life, much like the blackface wearers. It all seemed so innocent at the time to those involved.

[ecstatic]

167. "Still doesn't work for me."

Exactly. She's doing great in the Senate, but as far as 2020 goes, we already have a full bench of life long progressive democrats who don't have that type of baggage.

[Tipperary]

5. Oh damn.

Seems every time we turn around, we are shooting ourselves in the foot!

[exboyfil]

7. Better now that Oct. 2020

[Kingofalldems]

8. Don't understand.

Are 'we' being investigated by a Special Counsel? The Feds in NY? Any Democrats under indictment?

[Tipperary]

19. Excellent point!

[Blue_true]

163. The MSM and voters hold us to another standard.

Republicans lie and get away with it, our politicians hands have to be squeaky clean, else there is trouble. It is what it is.

As I look at democrats running for the nomination developing problems, my feeling is that the nomination race will come down to four or five people, Biden, Beto, Klobuchar, Gillibrand, Harris. Of the group, my betting money (if I betted) is going toward Klobuchar being the last one standing as the others get something from their past highlighted. My sense of Klobuchar is that she is straight laced and slowly worked her way up, as did Harris. Steve Bullard may come into the picture, but honestly, I don't know much about him other than he is a second term governor of Montana.

Republicans can be anti abortion but had mistresses abort babies like at least a couple members of Congress. Or they can screw a man other than their husband like a former republican congresswoman and a two term governor of a red state (on the hood of a car), but if a democrat try that, it bites them in the ass bigtime.

[BannonsLiver]

165. Go check out HuffPo

Right now there’s an “exclusive” splattered all over their front page about how Klobuchar is a monster to work for, treats staff terribly etc. It’s a hit piece but I bet more than a few people here rule her out because of it. That’s the problem moving forward. There will be dirt dug up on every last one of them before it’s over. Where the threshold for being disqualifying seems to be hard to identify and is fluid.

[Blue_true]

169. That is why we pay attention my friend.

I am totally confident that we will nominate the best presidential candidate in the end.

[honest.abe]

9. Not good if true.

[madaboutharry]

10. I don't get why she focused so much on this

far distant ancestor. Someone 6 to 10 generations back is something you might mention in passing but not actually base your identity on. It is as if she romanticized this part of her family history to feel a certain way about herself.

It just wasn’t honest.

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. Before that test she likely thought that ancestry was more recent

Warren is about my age. In the mid to late 60's there was a resurgence of interest in and admiration of Native Americans among white youth. Yes, much of that was romanticized and superficial, but not completely (I for example began reading a lot more about America's indigenous people and participated in support actions for the Alcatraz and Wounded Knee occupations.) But I know that, at the time, I would have felt perhaps inappropriately proud if I heard that I had some Native American blood in my family tree.

My guess is that, like Warren said, she heard stories from her family about having Indian ancestry - but that she simple assumed it was not that far back, a great or great great grandparent for example. Until the more recent study of ancestry "craze" of the last decade or two people were a lot less conscious about degrees of ancestry. I'm betting Warren found the stories of her having Indian ancestors as something more tangible than the results of her DNA test later revealed.

It was still foolish at best for her to list herself as Native American on that form though.

[theboss]

38. It's still weird to base the entirety of your heritage on an ancestor you don't know

As others have said, millions of people have claimed some Native ancestry based on family lore. Very few of them have made it the centerpiece of their identity on official documents.

I would expect someone making this claim to have at least one full-blooded Native grandparent.

[Hortensis]

118. Many of us didn't take what boxes we checked seriously back then.

It just didn't matter most of the time, and I can remember laughing with friends about what to check, especially if only one box was allowed. Sometimes people just took that chance to "represent" a minor part of themselves.

We had no idea the nation was going to become MORE divided and angry. We were going the other way back then.

Speaking of, what might happen in future to all those white "Hispanics" in many nations of the Americas who, as a matter of principle and unity, have been aligning with indigenous peoples, refusing to differentiate themselves and thinking that's a good thing? How long until this blows up in their faces in this country as people of Mayan heritage, for instance, decide it's deeply offensive and just another means of exploitation and abuse by privileged whites?

[theboss]

127. A. I don't buy these "back then" arguments. I'm 45. I remember 1986 pretty well.

B. Did you ever claim you were black or Hispanic when you weren't?
C. If you did and were called out on it, would you have doubled down by taking a DNA test to prove that you were full of beans?

[Hortensis]

129. Me, no, I'm kind of anal about facts and my background's

pretty boringly northern and middle European, so no opportunity to get my inner Inuit counted for once. But I'm talking especially about all the people who chose then, and still do, to highlight truths about minority parts of them, instead of just checking the usual overwhelmingly represented "white" part.

Fwiw, I don't feel it's appropriate to refuse to "buy" what is true for others. Just a guess, but I suspect most people who choose to emphasize minority representation will be liberals, at least socially, so those who don't think that way may need to try to stretch a bit to understand. Whatever, denying that others can have various decent motives for doing what you would not, especially when they explain that they do, is not exactly a path to the truth you value.

A couple facts that don't fit your opinion and should at least cause suspending is that Warren never benefited professionally or lucratively from the actions in question, could never have benefited because of the substantiation that would be required, and could never pass in person for being anything more than a typical inheritor from a distant ancestor.

[theboss]

133. I don't have a problem with anyone emphasizing a part of their heritage if it's real in some way

My wife and I adopted three black children. My son has my last name. The joke in my family is that this family heirloom of a photo of my Italian great grandparents is going to hang in his home one day, because the family rule is that it has to hang in the house of someone with our last name. I'm the oldest boy with our name. He's a boy with our name. It's his. So, when I'm dead, a picture of his white Italian great-great grandparents who he has no blood relation to, should be in his home. I think that's America.

Taking a family legend and turning that into the way you identify yourself in government documents....that strikes me as different.

[Hortensis]

136. :) That's a nice story. But while it is different, maybe not so much.

If one of your children someday smiles and writes in "Italian" for heritage, must that be conclusive proof that he or she is dishonorably scheming to deceive others for personal benefit?

Have a nice afternoon.

[theboss]

145. But I don't get the impression this was done as some sort of "farce"

I mean, she took a DNA test to prove that she was really being sincere in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

I just find this entire saga weird.

[Hortensis]

170. Yes, you do seem involved in a weird saga thing.

Why not ask your 3 adopted black children what they would say regarding the many questions you've been posting on these controversial topics? Perhaps you'll find some insight close to home.

[zipplewrath]

150. "Other"

1974. I was registering for 9th grade. On the form was a racial background box.

Choices were:

White
Black
Hispanic
Asian
Other (List)

Being 14 and a bit on the snarky side, I checked "other" and wrote in "Irish".

Fast forward to when I'm 18 and applying for colleges. I start getting all of these information cards from the colleges to which I applied. Various on campus organizations that offer tours and orientations. One of them was the African American Student Committee. I didn't think much of it because often various student social like organizations ran these things. I couldn't make the first one and asked if there were more. They called my house and my mother explained what was going on, and then she said;

"By the way, my child isn't black.". There was a pregnant pause and then an "no? Really?"

I talked with my high school guidance counselor who looked up my records. Way back in 9th grade, someone had taken my 9th grade registration and crossed out "other" and replaced it with black.

[uponit7771]

143. +1, her mistake was ... NOT ... telling red don to fuck off

[bearsfootball516]

11. As I said in another thread, love Warren, but taking the DNA test will ultimately wreck her.

Her DNA test showed between 1/64th and 1/1,024ths Native American. That's basically nothing.

She's done.

[Loki Liesmith]

15. 1/64th isn't nothing

Not sure I’d say 1/1024 is nothing either. The high end of the range is only 6 generations back. That’s ~200 years. The low end is around 300 years. Lots of people highlight famous ancestors in that range.

[madaboutharry]

17. To highlight a famous ancestor is something different.

If I had an ancestor 200 or 300 years back who came from Sweden, I would not identify myself as a Swede. I would say that I had an ancestor hundreds of years ago who was Swedish.

Elizabeth Warren is a decent person, but she was dishonest about her identity.

In my opinion, what is offensive in her claiming this identity is that she has not lived the Native American experience. She has not suffered the poor health, the poverty, the disadvantage, and the bigotry that is the modern day experience of Native Americans.

[Major Nikon]

37. Not all Native Americans do either

Nor are all those experiences the same. A Native American born and raised in Oklahoma is going to have a profoundly different experience than one who was raised on a reservation in Arizona. The example you give also site ancestry from a very different geographical area, which isn't the same as your own neighborhood, which probably has a number of Native Americans within a short distance.

DNA is also a piss poor indication of Native American heritage and identity, which is why Warren apologized to the Cherokee Nation for citing it after they took exception.

The bottom line is that Native American identity is a lot more complex than most realize and it defies most analogies used to try to explain it.

What I think is the biggest tragedy here is not that Warren at one point identified as Native American, but rather that so many feel that was so wrong. I think the plight of Native Americans would be improved if more realized how connected they are to us.

[theboss]

42. Connected to us is what way though?

There is a difference in feeling connected to the experience of a minority in America versus hijacking that experience. Warren has no experience as a Native American in Oklahoma or Arizona or Manhattan. So claiming that background is presumptuous at the very least.

[Major Nikon]

47. Not necessarily

Many Native Americans are dispersed all over the US and generationally can get profoundly removed from those experiences. I don't see tracing one's roots and realizing how it made you into the person you are as a bad thing. I also don't see any evidence Warren tried to use that identity for personal gain. The "hijacking" claim just plays into the tactic wingnuts are trying to exploit. I don't see it as helpful for Native Americans. I see it as exactly the opposite.

[theboss]

49. I don't know if she used it for personal gain

But she clearly made it a central part of her identity with no basis for doing so.

If you had a family legend that said your great great grandfather was an escaped slave, would you claim to be black?

[Major Nikon]

76. "she clearly made it a central part of her identity"

Really? What evidence is there for this?

Even if she did, so what? How is that a bad thing? Lot's of people identify with a specific ethnicity while being far removed from it ancestrally. How many people identify as Irish, or German, English et al while being very far removed from those things in all sorts of ways?

Meanwhile as I pointed out there's a real problem with trying to cite analogies for the Native American experience which is profoundly different from other identities.

[theboss]

80. So you would claim to be black?

Based on the great great grandfather story. You see nothing wrong for this?

The evidence is that she claimed it as her goddamn race on official documents.

[Major Nikon]

85. Some use analogies for enlightenment

Some use them to reinforce bad ideas.

Might be worth some consideration the next time you go down that road.

[theboss]

88. So would you claim to be black?

You're refusal to answer that question is intriguing.

[Major Nikon]

98. Have you stopped beating your wife?

Not all questions deserve answers. I am not black and have never claimed to be black, nor would I pretend to answer that question for someone who does. Instead I would refer you elsewhere for the answer preferably to someone who has that experience which has almost nothing to with the matter at hand to begin with.

The fact that you insist on an answer to an irrelevant question is also quite telling, btw.

[nini]

135. You have to be 1/16th to benefit from the casino profits

Some tribes even require 25%..

1/64th does not really qualify one as American Indian to the extent you claim it as your ethnicity like that.

I have about that much European Jewish in my dna but I don't claim that as my ethnicity on paperwork etc..

[Loki Liesmith]

149. I'm not really interested in what the "standard" is.

My point here is: let’s look what happened. Warren’s family had a tradition of some Native American ancestry, which she believed. And of which she was proud. She put it out there whenever she could because she was proud of it. She was excited by the idea and played it uP because it excited her. That’s all that was going on.

Turns out the tradition was true. Just not very recent.

[nini]

155. That isn't MY standards but the tribes.

Go ahead and think putting Native American as your ethnicity in a situation like that doesn't give her access to benefits meant for others.

THAT is the problem.

[Loki Liesmith]

157. Of course I'll go ahead and think that.

As the Texas bar explicitly states as much. The only thing Warren did wrong here was screw up their statistics. Although it’s hard to say how significant this error is without knowing their base rate of NA claims.

But as I said, I really don’t care about *any* organization’s opinions on the matter. That includes NA organizations. It’s clear to me that Warren was just being overzealous and was ignorant of the complex reality such a claim entails.

So her action does not bother me. It was silliness and she’s clearly moved beyond it. Whether it bothers anyone else I do not give a good goddamn.

A good evening to you.

[DURHAM D]

162. She was not seeking any benefits.

She was just proud of having native ancestry.

[TheCowsCameHome]

14. Please don't run in 2020

This controversy will never go away. Never.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. It is unlikely she is going to be our nominee.

Last edited Wed Feb 6, 2019, 10:42 AM - Edit history (1)

[bullwinkle428]

21. This info was almost certainly unearthed by a potential 2020 primary opponent.

For those interested in "EXTREME VETTING", I would say the sheer size of the field almost guarantees that this will happen for everyone. If one candidate's oppo-research team misses the mark about something, it will be picked up by someone else's team.

[tinrobot]

114. Maybe. Glad it is coming out now rather than in the general.

[klook]

126. Who's David Brock working for this time around?

Asking for a friend.

[LanternWaste]

22. an importance which simply does not exist..

Ah, yes... the irrelevant, vapid, non-caloric issue the lazy mind loves to digest, criticize, and pretend an importance which simply does not exist.

We as the American voter base have finally reached the point in which the lowest common denominator becomes more important than policy.

[MineralMan]

24. I suppose much will be made of this by some.

Last edited Wed Feb 6, 2019, 12:55 PM - Edit history (1)

For me, it is the inclusion of a "race" category on anything that is offensive. Personally, I have always refused to check any box except "Other" on any form that has a "race" category. If there is a space for me to write my race, I write "Human."

The question for me is: Why does race matter when registering for the State Bar of Texas? How is that information relevant? One assumes that the person filling out the form has completed law school and has passed the Bar Exam. Why is the State of Texas interested in the race of an individual attorney?

I refuse to answer such questions. My race has nothing to do with anything at all. I will not answer such questions, except to classify myself as a human being.

ETA: The U.S. Census is a special case. I answer questions about race there, but only there. That is because the information is not connected to my individual identity and is only used for demographic purposes.

[theboss]

26. You have no interest in knowing how many blacks or Hispanics are practicing law in Texas?

It's a minority majority state. I think it's important to know if there are, you know, more than one black defense attorneys in the state.
.
That's one of the reasons why this is so weird for Warren. I have to imagine that the number of Native American attorneys in Texas in 1986 was miniscule. It's entirely possible she alone was something like 5 percent of the total.

[MineralMan]

45. Personally? No, I have no interest in that.

[theboss]

53. That's really weird

How on earth do you measure progress then?

My father had a great expression, "Without data, it's just an opinion."

[MineralMan]

55. Government records of individuals by race have been used

more often for harm than for good. That is why I oppose such data collection that is tied to individual identities by government and quasi-government organizations.

[theboss]

58. That's an extreme libertarian point of view

This means you have no interest in black or Hispanic unemployment, poverty levels, literacy levels, criminal justice records, etc.

You would just throw all numbers into one big pot and say, "Looking good, America."

How do you solve any problems if you can't actually track the problems?

[qazplm135]

62. that makes no sense

it's the very fact that government (and private) treatment of minorities in the past has been so bad that we need to track data so that such treatment can be identified, tracked, and rectified.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

108. That's some white privilege right there.

For the past 50 plus years those “offensive” boxes have been used to spot trends an guard against discrimination in education, housing, mortgage loans, car loans etc.

[qazplm135]

34. and as an African-American

and Texas attorney, it's pretty darn important to me to know the racial composition of attorneys in Texas. It's important to know whether or not they are under-represented.

Race exists and it matters, you and I may wish it didn't, but it does. And pretending it doesn't, does absolutely zero good.

[MineralMan]

54. Are there any organizations that represent black attorneys in Texas?

In a Google search, I see that there are such organizations, along with Attorney locator services that can find black attorneys for clients who would prefer that.

Historically, keeping official records of race has often been used to the detriment of minorities in almost all areas. Today, voluntary groups of people in many categories, including race, exist to help professionals of all races identify themselves to the public.

Government and quasi-government organizations have no real need to maintain records of the races of individuals. The census is an exception, but its demographic information is not traceable down to the individual person. Instead it is a record of numbers of people in different categories.

[theboss]

57. So you're against asking race on a census?

Voluntary organizations can't create overall numbers since they are self selecting.

I was at a local Democratic meeting in Texas two weeks ago. We know that there are close to 8 million unregistered voters in Texas. We know who they are. We know that the overwhelming majority of them are black and Hispanic. And we know that if we got even 10 percent of them to the polls, we would change not only Texas but the country fundamentally.

Why don't you want us to have this information?

[MineralMan]

63. Census data is not available in individualized form.

You cannot use it to determine the race of any individual person. It is used to count numbers of people in many categories, including race. Census data, for example, can tell you how many people of any race live in a particular place, but cannot tell you who they are as individuals.

For example, you can use census date to determine how many black people live in a particular zip code, but not to determine their names or addresses. That lets you target an area for campaigning, voter registration, or whatever. In some cases, you can determine how many black people live on a particular street through census data research, but not their names or addresses.

You can determine what percentage of black people own homes in a place, but not which homes are owned by black people.

Your organization can canvass such areas to determine those things on an individual basis. However, for example, the Ku Klux Klan cannot get a list of all homes in some town that are owned by black people. Not everyone or every organization means well, I'm afraid, which is the reason for this confidentiality with respect to individuals.

If you think about it, you'll understand it.

Racial demographic information is available, but not the race of individual people, for very, very good reasons.

[theboss]

67. You didn't say you were pro-confidentiality. You said you were against gathering the info.

That's two entirely different things.

I don't need to know the names of every unemployed back person. But the overall unemployment rate for blacks is important.

Likewise, I don't need a list of every black attorney in Texas. But I need to know the numbers.

You stated that you didn't want the numbers.

[qazplm135]

71. what are you even talking about?

No one has suggested they want "individual data."

They want "racial demographic information."

[MineralMan]

79. And that's readily available from census data.

The census is the only place where I mark the box for race. I would not for a State Bar registration, which was the topic of the original post in this thread. I would not at my doctor's office, which recently asked me for that information in a survey. I would not on my voter registration, driver's licence or any other record that can be linked to my personal identity.

I was addressing a specific use of racial data, not the census. That is a legitimate use of that data, because it does not identify individuals by race.

I edited my first post to explain that I make an exception for census forms, for that reason.

[theboss]

81. So, again, we would have no way of knowing how many black college grads there are in America

Or black lawyers, doctors, etc.

We wouldn't know the incarceration rates of blacks.

We wouldn't know the voting rates of minorities.

Basically, under your idea, the Democrats would have no issues to run on and no voters to rally.

[MineralMan]

84. The Census collects that information.

I edited my first post to make the Census an exception to my rule. That is the only exception I make, however.

The Census specifically forbids identity information from being linked to such other information.

The post to which I applied had to do with Texas Bar Association registration. So, I did not include the Census exception in my comment. I have added that to the first post in this subthread.

I do not object to the Census collecting such demographic information, because it is not tied to individuals by name.

[theboss]

92. So how do we figure out the number of black attorneys in texas from the census?

And how do we track that year by year?

[MineralMan]

97. The Census collects information about occupation.

Do you not remember filling out the form during the last census? See this page from the U.S. Census Bureau website:

https://www.census.gov/topics/employment/industry-occupation/about/occupation.html

[MineralMan]

113. You mine the census data.

The Bar Association also has those numbers, based on its registrations. However, if you look at the link below to view the profiles of attorneys in Texas, you'll discover that over 1200 Texas Attorneys chose "Other" as their race, like I do.

https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Content_Folders&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=43800

That is an option available to registrants. In fact, a disclaimer on that document says:

"Not all demographic data is provided by every attorney."

[theboss]

116. "Other" in Texas has real meaning

It’s an incredibly diverse place with any combination of racial backgrounds.

[qazplm135]

87. sigh no it's not

not for everything we need to know...it's one source for some data.

Knowing how many AA attorneys there are does not "identify individuals by race."
You have a photo on your DL which will go a long way to showing what your race is anyways.

It's a silly, absolutist, and counter-productive position.

[qazplm135]

59. yes

there are multiple ones.

Texas Minority Counsel Program
Texas Minority Attorney Program
and several others just affiliated with the Texas State Bar alone.

Not to mention the other nonaffiliated associations.

Government absolutely has a need to track minority participation rates, unemployment, and hiring as data points to see where we still need to do work to remove racism fully from this country. We don't even have a full understanding of how many POC are killed annually by police, are you advocating we not try to find that out? There are a myriad number of reasons why we need data.

If you come across a minority that feels different, let me know, but I don't see too many POC advocating for the government to not seek out data on race.

[theboss]

64. I'm flabbergasted by this position

It seems like the entire point would be to bury data points on minorities in overall numbers thus making everything useless.

The overall murder rate is as low as it's ever been. I guess Chicago is doing fine.

[qazplm135]

69. like you said

it's an extreme position.

[loyalsister]

25. What a disappointment

She makes great observations and has smart ideas. But, this is not something the can or should be able to recover from. It reveals a serious lack of racial consciousness that was demonstrated again with the DNA test. It's not DNA that gets oppressed people killed. It's clothes, language, religion, geography and other markers that separate racial minorities from the white dominant majority. Even a slight suggestion that one shares in the identity of an oppressed population while maintaining the elevated social standing shared with oppressors is too much.

[MattP]

27. The obsession with this is ridiculous unfortunately she fed the beast with that test

[eleny]

28. I don't have a problem with her showing pride in her heritage

And I'd have to hear from her the reason she chose that part of her heritage on her registration before forming my opinion.

I read the article and don't find a reason to exclude her from my growing list of favored Dem candidates for the primary.

[theboss]

29. I simply don't understand her obsession with this.

I can understand the family lore of "Your great grandmother was a Cherokee princess" or whatever nonsense people believe about their heritage that is almost definitely false.

What I don't get is making that seemingly the central part of your identity as a professional adult, particularly when you have no apparent cultural connections.

My heritage is only 1/4 Italian-American. But my last name is Italian. That was the part of my family I was closest to. The town I grew up in was heavily Italian. So when I think of my identity, Italian-American is a fairly big part of it, because it was an outsized cultural piece more than anything. I'm 1/4 Welsh, but I have no real sense of what that means, because no one in my family ever apparently thought it meant anything.

To identify yourself as Native American when your only connection to that heritage is family lore is deeply weird to me. Am I missing something in her background or childhood?

[doompatrol39]

30. Ugh. Such potential wasted on such foolish things...

Why? Don't get me wrong this is essentially small potatoes compared to a lot we are dealing. But it does reflect some pretty poor judgement and bad political calculations on her part.

[Baltimike]

31. So? nt

[snowybirdie]

32. Bar registration

has no set asides. It's merely a way to be allowed to practice law in a state. Means nothing! Another Russian bot story perhaps? Let's not fall for this b.s.again!

[LongtimeAZDem]

44. I imagine that some Native Americans would consider this just as offensive as a yearbook photo

[LongtimeAZDem]

33. Of course, she was a Republican at the time

[qazplm135]

35. Yikes

yeah she's done. Harris will scarf up some of her vote now as will Sanders.

Warren won't fall away, but she will definitely lose support over this.

[njhoneybadger]

36. I believe my GG Grandmother was African American

But it would be nuts for me to say I was on a race question

[jberryhill]

39. I hope they never dig up my college course registration forms

For some crazy reason, my college had a "Religion:____________" space on the semester registration form.

I always used to put "Aztec" for shits and giggles.

The confirmation print-out always used to come back "None".

[Hassin Bin Sober]

51. I may or may not have written Druid Reformed.

[klook]

125. Druid Orthodox here.

Please head to the Religion Group where we can bash it out. Respectfully, of course.

[nini]

40. Holy Crap

She's done.

Not smart at all not to mention wrong.

[treestar]

41. Meh who cares?

The Orange Menace got away with much more. Republicans who make a thing of this should be ignored. No tax returns, no bar applications then.

[at140]

43. In this 21st century...get rid of all racial labels

There is no one with pure race anyways. All American blacks have some white blood.
So called whites in America longer than 5 generations are likely to have native American blood.
More recent European arrivals? Europe has been invaded by multitude of races over centuries.
Hitler was a joke if he thought Aryans is a pure race. There are more Aryan descendants in India
than Germany.

And didn't the human race originate in Olduvai gorge in Africa according to anthropologists?
Is everyone aware that anyone can accept blood transfusion from any other regardless of race?
Just get rid of hyphenated Americans because we are all Americans, period.

[LongtimeAZDem]

46. This is where we were headed in the 70s, when multiculturalism was the goal

Sadly, that has been abandoned.

[theboss]

61. That's one way to solve police brutality issues

Stop keeping records.

It's a shame that the police shot that unarmed human being last week. But in the grand scheme of things, they don't shoot that many unarmed human beings.

[at140]

72. Opioids killed more Americans than car accidents in 2017.

There are several hundred thousand cops in the country. 99% do not shoot unarmed men.
Any cop who does shoot unarmed people should be dealt severely.

75% of people shot to death is by someone close to them.

[at140]

74. This is sad news because Sen Warren is one of my top preferences in 2020. nt

[theboss]

82. The fuck?

Seriously....the fuck?

[JonLP24]

171. There are more problems in policing than shooting unarmed people

You have disparities in stopping, arresting, convicting, and sentencing. There are beatings, unconstitutional policing, and corruption.

[at140]

175. I should list my experience with Chicago cops

I am immigrant from India, have an accent and light brown complexion.
Arrived in USA in 1960, lived and worked in Chicago from 1962-1997.
For 8 years lived in the city with 25 miles round trip driving to work each day.
Other 27 years, 50 miles driving round trip through the city each work day.

Point is I drove a heck of a lot in Chicago, was stopped by cops dozens of times for various reasons.
I was cited for traffic violations with tickets may be a dozen times by both white & black cops.
One time a black cop stopped me and gave me a ticket which was not even close to my fault. All other tickets were my fault to some extent.

Many other stops by both white and black cops were to check why my car did not display a city sticker. During those 27 years I lived just outside Chicago city limits, and did not need to buy the city sticker. These stops were totally unnecessary, but they saw my driver's license which showed my residence was outside city limits and they had to let me go on.

Each time I was pulled over, I was polite and did not argue with the cop. Only one time a white cop asked me to open my trunk to search my car. Other times they just wrote me a ticket or a few times just let me go without a ticket. I hated being pulled over because of the hassle of taking time off from work to go to traffic court. Main reason for going to traffic court was to have the citation not go on my record, to keep my insurance costs from escalating.

Overall, I can say that I was pulled over more than I should have, but no cop ever treated me with brutality. Just my personal experience of driving for 35 years, a total of 400,000 miles in Chicago.

[uponit7771]

48. She brags about sexually assaulting men? No ?! Meh

[rusty fender]

130. This!

Did she pay off porn stars she had sex with?

Did she launder Russian money?

Did she bankrupt 2 casinos?

Did she stiff people she owed money to?

Did she conspire with Putin to win an election?

Jeebus

Talk about blowing this faux pas out of proportion

[Joe941]

52. Why does this crap keep coming up? She needs to let it go.

[keithbvadu2]

56. Trump Mocks Warren's Native American Heritage Claim, But Falsely Claimed His Family Was Swedish

Trump Mocks Warren’s Native American Heritage Claim, But Falsely Claimed His Family Was Swedish

https://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/trump-mocks-warrens-native-american-heritage-claim-but-false?utm_term=.hrN5grRZ6#.nn8b1XG0m


http://www.nytimes.com/1999/06/26/nyregion/fred-c-trump-postwar-master-builder-of-housing-for-middle-class-dies-at-93.html

Donald needs to start using his REAL last name, Drumpf.

[RobinA]

75. Some People

are Teflon, and some people ain't.

[uponit7771]

146. or someone needs to tell her campaign to defuse it by completely ignoring or deflect

[LiberalFighter]

60. So?

[Paladin]

65. Warren is no longer a viable presidential candidate, in my opinion.

The whole American Indian issue keeps popping up, over and over. I take no pleasure in saying it, but I am unwilling to support anyone who can just hand trump a tailor-made issue he can flog into a disastrous second term in office. We have way too many other qualified candidates to take that sort of risk.

[theboss]

70. That's basically where I am

I probably agree with her on the issues more than any other candidate. But there are others who are close enough and who I don't have to have endless "Pocahontas" debates over. I know Trump will pick whatever scab is available on whatever candidate we nominate, but this one is particularly troubling, because there is actually a grain of truth in what he will be saying. I mean, she did apparently claim to be Native American based on no real evidence. I don't want to debate the shades of grey here for 18 months.

[Paladin]

95. It's a damn shame. (nt)

[leftynyc]

66. I like Warren but she's done

I have zero intention of making 2020 all about this.

[Mr. Quackers]

68. If it's not this

they'll either dig something up, make something up, etc.

Time to realize that republicans want everyone except themselves DEAD.

Time to fight back.

[theboss]

78. No thank you

Maybe I'm taking a position that causes us to lose every election for the rest of my life and the country to fall into The Hunger Games.

But I'm not fighting over every stupid issue. I have a life.

I'm just not exerting energy on explaining how Elizabeth Warren's psychological makeup was so tied into this idea of her Native American heritage that she literally became Native American. I don't care that much.

The whole "genius" of Trump is that he gets us to fight these endless piddling battles so that we are exhausted for the big important fights. Meghan Kelly's period and the nomination of Judge Kavanaugh both became fights over the future of our country when only one mattered.

[Mr. Quackers]

89. good for you

[uponit7771]

138. Then don't, again you .... WILL ... be explaining something else cause KGOP will MAKEUP an

... issue if there isn't one.

Really don't understand why "who cares about that stupid issue" isn't something we can say

[leftynyc]

83. We've got much bigger battles to fight

Than this petty bullshit that Warren should have admitted long ago (her own people should have found this long before someone in the media or the republicans did). She fucked up, she's done.

[Mr. Quackers]

90. Maybe she should get recorded talking about grabbing men's cocks

maybe that would work.

[theboss]

94. Trump being a monster does not make everything else forgiveable

That path leads to nowhere good.

[leftynyc]

96. Spare me

I have no intention of using that fucking degenerate as my yardstick for anything. She fucked up. Period.

[Mr. Quackers]

99. cat's already out of the bag

something tells me the Native American false crisis isn't what's really at play here.

Goose, meet gander.

[leftynyc]

104. Probably not but it doesn't matter

Democrats have bigger fish to fry than defending this bullshit for 2 years.

[Mr. Quackers]

107. If it's not this

it will be something else for whatever Democratic candidate.

[leftynyc]

121. Feel free to defend her all you want

I will not be joining. If I'm going to defend something, it's going to be something that matters, not this bullshit.

[Mr. Quackers]

122. There's nothing to defend

she didn't do anything wrong. It's a manufactured issue that smells like the botfarm a mile away.

[leftynyc]

124. You're not getting it

SHE made it an issue - nobody else.

[uponit7771]

139. THIS !! Trump didn't make a big deal out of it and the M$M forgot about it cause they have

... the attention span of a squirrel

[uponit7771]

137. Only if she address's the issue like its a thing. The KGOP will .. MAKE UP ... something about a ...

... candidate !!

[leftynyc]

148. They didn't make this up

Warren stepped in it herself. And it's already a THING, mostly because of that DNA test. She's done.

[uponit7771]

153. Irrelevant to the point don't make up anything... PERIOD. Disqualifying a candidate because

... they can't keep an issue from being a distraction might be one thing but to disqualify them because every little issue like this is another

[kennetha]

73. Say good night, Liz

Warren is too politically clumsy to be the democratic nominee. Candidate skills about C-

May she go on to have a long and distinguished career in the Senate, fighting the good fight for the democratic agenda. You could do worse.

[Drunken Irishman]

86. A lot of people will say, 'so what', but this is the exact issue that will dominate her campaign...

Similar to Hillary's e-mails dominated 2016 and was conflated with a lot of other issues (like, for starters, many people thinking the campaign e-mails that were hacked by the Russians were the same e-mails Clinton deleted). It's just a needless blunder that will hang over the campaign and become an issue that dominates it - fair or not.

It's the reality we live in. Warren is not a viable candidate. She might be from the left's perspective but to everyone else, she just has too many issues going against her to make me think she can overcome this line of attack. There's a reason Trump continues to employ it - he realizes it's effective. Bag on Trump all you want, if he digs in on an attack it's because he knows he'll get something out of it.

It's why he hasn't yet effectively been able to go after Nancy Pelosi.

[JonLP24]

172. Fuck Trump

There are so many problems with Trump pick one that we can get so much mileage out of. What Warren did in 1986 is so unimportant to me and we don't apply these standards to other candidates. Biden was plagiarizing in the 1980s but we got over it for some reason. If people want to pull up stuff from the 80s I can play that game too.

You have Trump falsely claiming he's Swedish but it is a big deal for something Warren can't go back and change something she did in1986 during a time when she probably was never thinking about becoming President.

[Drunken Irishman]

173. You're missing the point.

The attack is effective. It's working. A lot of people know Elizabeth Warren for only one thing - she lied about being Native American.

It doesn't matter if you think it's silly or won't work - it is, and will.

Warren hasn't effectively worked the message to overcome any of it and she's too damaged by it now. Her poll numbers speak to this, as she's one of the worst Democrats head-to-head against Trump despite being one of the more known to announce (or explore the idea of running).

No candidate is perfect, Biden included. The difference is whether or not the message sticks. Biden will get dinged for the plagiarizing but guess what? There's no evidence he's damaged because of it.

Warren is done. She's not going to be president. She's too toxic of a candidate and won't have the built-in base to overcome her major issues.

[JonLP24]

174. I understood your point

I think using the phrase 'Pocahontas' harmed Trump more than it has hurt Trump. Sure it excites Trump's base but this story is so old though. It bothered me for a moment when I first learned of it 5 years ago but I got over it.

In her race against Brown she said "while Scott Brown has been attacking my family, I'll keep fighting for yours".

I don't have a crystal ball so I can't tell you who will win or lose against Trump but this is a very small deal and if this is the worst thing against her she's in good shape.

All the crystal ball people voted for Hillary Clinton because she was more "electable" or something like that.

[Drunken Irishman]

177. She's not a strong national candidate.

She is too prone to attacks and frankly, the Democrats have already gone the route of putting up a candidate with a ton of baggage against Trump and it didn't work out. We need someone who can fight back Trump but also is able to transcend his petty politics. Elizabeth Warren is absolutely not that person - and her poor poll numbers, despite being one of the more known candidates, speak to that.

[JonLP24]

178. Writing something on an application pales in comparison to the other candidates

In the Democratic field. Biden talked about taking Trump out back of a high school gym to beat him up. It just makes him look like an asshole and not impressive at all. He had his chance to take him out back behind White House at the inauguration.

The primary hasn't started yet and media coverage is still very Trump focused. The 24/7 news media can elevate or sink whoever they want I learned that so that is why I do deep research. Plus you can start out with little name recognition so she has a lot of upside compared to nationally known candidates. She is far above petty politics she talks about things that matter to regular people while Trump does petty politics.

Plus the vote is split like 10 ways at this point. I think almost anybody can beat Trump which is why so many are officially running. I wonder how high the 'undecided' or don't know polled probably why a nationally known VP who has a lot of baggage is ahead in a way too early primary poll.

[Freethinker65]

91. I believe she also voted Republican back then?

Some of my son's friends just three years ago checked numerous boxes on their college applications because they found the entire question absurd.

And my son's classmate, who made some brief National headlines because of his alt-right racist views, applied for, and may have been awarded, a Hispanic merit scholarship. Accepting subsidies and government assistance is okay if you are a Republican afterall.

When I attended the University if Michigan my Asian roommates and many of their friends said they specifically did NOT check the Asian box. Their reasoning at the time was they were confident they would be accepted. Why prevent some other Asian from getting in.


I am sure Trump Properties knowingly used and uses very questionable "minority owned" contracting companies and subcontractors to qualify for government subsidies and building permits. They checked the box and no questions were asked.

Thing is, I truly believe Warren believed the stories of her heritage and ancestry. She did not need them to get ahead, but many of her Republican minded peers (and perhaps some of the Democratic ones as well) at the time probably discussed using ancestry to their advantage if they could. So from time to time she would "check the box". When Harvard asked if anyone currently on staff would qualify in particular categories, she allowed them to say she was part Native American.

Elizabeth Warren is getting demonized in the media like Hillary was. Reporting of this Native American gaffe should have been over long ago.

Only potential bright spot is perhaps by taking the hits from the media, others in the party can shine (if the media can focus on anything else).

[Rustyeye77]

93. Quick...DEMAND SHE LEAVE OFFICE IMMEDIATELY !!

We must be totally pure and unblemished.

Al Franken..where are you

[dalton99a]

131. Exactly. Let's unearth school records on Democrats

and see which ones we can send to the firing squad

We need to eliminate as many Democrats as possible

[Apollyonus]

100. This looks like a concerted effort to damage all real Democrats

to favor one guy who is not even a Democrat.

Such anti-Harris and anti-Warren threads on DU make me want to

[Mr. Quackers]

102. Familiar gambit

use a cartoonish view of what the right thinks Democrats are as opposed to what Democrats really are all in the pursuit of a cartoonish ideological "purity" that doesn't exist in real life.

[Apollyonus]

105. +1000 very well put nt

[madville]

101. She wasn't going to win the primary

Massachusetts politicians are always lackluster in the general election anyway.

[DonaldsRump]

103. This is a total non-story

There is absolutely no advantage obtained by putting this on a form registering for a bar. If she genuinely believed this at the time, it makes it all the more plausible why she would have put this on the form. Given that this was 1986 when stuff like 23andme, ancestry.com etc were not around, and this kind of information could not be easily checked back then. Again, this makes it all the more understandable why someone would have filled the form out like this (that is, based on what she had been told by relatives etc).

I have no idea why this story has ANY traction. For example, I was listening to Chris Cuomo on the radio last night, and he made a big deal of this. I have no idea why, especially since Cuomo himself is a lawyer and has presumably had to fill things like this out.

[LuckyCharms]

106. Here's the thing: The fucking Republicans latch onto anything...

If it wasn't this, it would be something else.

I don't care what she listed her race as, and if we start making a huge deal out of everything the Repubs beat to death, then we are nothing more than whipped puppies. In the meantime, they get away with being the worst human beings possible.

Fuck 'em. We need to learn how to fight this shit instead of eating our own for things like what she put down on some form. There is not a soul out there who is 100% free of "sin".

[DonaldsRump]

109. Amen! n/t

[chowder66]

110. She is qualified. She didn't gain anything by it. nt

[jalan48]

112. Major identity politics fail.

[LiberalFighter]

119. How is this an issue? How would she benefit?

It is after college. Not during.

[gratuitous]

120. This "scandal" is every bit as legitimate as Hillary Clinton's e-mails

You can see the registration card for yourself (if you're interested at all in the facts) here:

http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2019/02/fake-elizabeth-warren-scandal

The question Warren was responding to was "The following information is for statistical purposes only and will not be disclosed to any person or organization without the express written consent of the attorney:"

That is, this information is an attempt by the Bar to know who its members are, and to get an ethnic profile of the membership: How many women? How many minority members? And so forth. A good strong Bar Association wants to know who its members are and tailor programs to serve identifiable segments. Warren didn't get any "benefit" from identifying as American Indian; she was already a member of the bar. She was simply reporting information to the Bar that they could use to offer services that might be of use to the general membership.

If you're taken in by this nonsense, please go back and review the breathless controversies over Obama having orange juice with breakfast or wearing a tan suit. Then ask yourself why you continue to be so gullible as to buy into another nontroversy. Who's yanking your chain, and why are you so easily distracted by non-issues?

[Mr. Quackers]

123. Exactly

[apnu]

144. Yes it is legit... in the eyes of voters.

Republicans play the dirty tricks game. They always try to poison the well. Hillary's Emails, Warren's native claims -- all minor stuff, but the GOP are masters of making hay like this.

Republicans do this to annoy us, keep their flock in line, and cause independents to doubt and worry.

[David__77]

151. If it's an impactful as "emails," then that's not good at all.

...

[Mosby]

128. She's done.

[dalton99a]

134. I don't give a shit if she calls herself a Martian

[uponit7771]

154. +1, Do you notice the "she's done" chorus for something so small?

[customerserviceguy]

156. All I can say is

we're only getting started on primary season, folks. It's probably going to get real ugly on our side this time around.

[uponit7771]

141. ****BUT HER EMAILS !!! HER RACE !! HER HAIR!!!****

Last edited Wed Feb 6, 2019, 04:58 PM - Edit history (2)

I'm noticing too many call it's for email like crap

Not this time

We are NOT going to pit nic about every little damn thing when the KGOP can look past a guy who brags about sexually assaulting peoples wives !!

FUCK THAT !!!

[apnu]

142. I don't get Warren's thought process for all this, I had this option and turned it down.

My family has a many stories that we have Canadian First Peoples heritage. I'm told I'm 1/16th Mohawk. But present as white, I was raised as white, I talk like the white Midwesterner, I identify, generically, as white. However I've always had great sympathy for native peoples in both the US and Canada.

In the 80s and 90s, when I let this information be known, quite a lot of people told me to claim Native American on various forms to get special consideration (college entrance and bank loans for example). When the genetics test became a viable thing, people pressured me to get a test, find out if the stories are true, and again claim native heritage on various forms to get freebies and even tribal membership.

That always made me feel hinky. I grew up with all the powers and benefits of privilege and it felt like a scum move to use resources that exist for people who needed it. So I never took that path I could get by just fine. I'm still creeped out just thinking about it.

As much as I love Warren's politics, her native heritage claims has always bothered me. I hope she can be grown up about all this, continue to apologize for her bad decisions and become an advocate for native peoples in our country.

[Alhena]

147. Thankfully, she wasn't our strongest candidate even aside from this issue

but yeah, this issue will never go away for her. And to see her put "American Indian" on a formal license application is pretty jarring, with no possible explanation I can see.

Biden, Klobuchar, Beto. All tier one candidates who can win a general election. We don't need to hitch our wagon to someone with Warren's baggage.

[PubliusEnigma]

152. She wasn't really a Presidential Contender, anyway.

The worst thing this does is lend credibility to Trump's "Pocahantas" smear.
He will never shut up about it now.

[CountAllVotes]

158. Native American or not ...

Being Elizabeth Warren has a minute amount of Native American blood in her does not make her a liar but the reality of it is that a family tale became bigger than it is in reality.

Elizabeth must have been shocked by the results as she thought she had a lot more Indian blood in her than she really does.

Shocked and probably a tad bit embarrassed, that is what I think.

It is a shame she let this overblown fact become far bigger than it really is.

Do I dislike her for it? No I do not.

Do I think she should have said she was Native American on that form?

Well, there was a time when it seemed appropriate to her.

Fact v. fiction are two different things however.

My own mother was adopted and raised by the Cherokee but this did not make my mother of Cherokee lineage as I had long suspected. Did I ever check a box stating I am Native American given my familial association with the Cherokee via adoption?

No, not even once, as I never knew for certain until recently. DNA testing proves to me that I have no Native American blood in me. I am glad I never said I was anything but "OTHER" being I never knew. End of story!

[UniteFightBack]

161. I don't think we should be treating all infractions the same here. Did she grab cock? Is she

abusing men and women? Is she corrupt? Is she perfect?

Anyway I forgive her for WHATEVER the reason. I forgive her if she used it to try to gain an advantage somewhere..I forgive her if it is a family story ....whatever...as they said in MEATBALLS....

IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER.

However, it would behoove anyone in the spotlight here to get out anything up front and in front out first for fucks sake. Playing defense ain't a good look.

[JonLP24]

164. In 1986 the year I was born

I'm all for having long memories but if this is the worst thing she has done then she's in good shape. Seriously I can find problems with every candidate going back to 1986 especially Biden.

[BannonsLiver]

166. ...

[ooky]

168. So?

[Ex Lurker]

176. Native American Tribes had very low birth rates, and as a result were very open to adoption

and intermarriage. If you wanted to live among them and adopted their customs, they considered you one of their own. It's estimated that about 25% of Cherokees and up to one third of Comanches were of European or mixed ancestry. Warren may in fact have had a Cherokee ancestor that wouldn't necessarily have showed up on a DNA test.