Amy Klobuchar responds:

[Kingofalldems]

Link to tweet

[DontBooVote]

1. The truth and candor, no matter how you recieve it, is refreshing.

[qazplm135]

2. honesty is good...

but she's basically saying the stories are true.

[DontBooVote]

8. Yea, some whiny-assed subordinate(s) couldn't handle the heat at the Senate level and

went crying to Huffpost about it because she took their binkie after failing to meet certain expectations.

[qazplm135]

23. if someone is throwing shit at you

I'm pretty sure it's not whiny to complain about it. That's toxic leadership, and even the Army doesn't tolerate it. I know, I've seen plenty of leaders go down for it.

[Mr. Quackers]

58. if someone is throwing shit at you

get the fuck out of the way.

Politics is a tough business.

[qazplm135]

87. lol

if this were a conservative Senator, folks would be tripping over themselves to talk about how bad they were, but we like her politics so now we are all internet toughies.

[Mr. Quackers]

90. I know, Democrats are so terrible, correct?

/sarcasm

oh, and false equivalency. Nice try, but you're doing it wrong.

[qazplm135]

91. no it's exactly what would happen

same thing that's happening with blackface and sex assault.

[whathehell]

147. Criticizing one democrat hardly equates to a "Democrats are terrible"

bias.
We can't be hypocrites. Criticizing abusive behavior is always right, regardless of party.

[UpInArms]

134. The purity test

Fails to recognize that good people are not perfect ...

There’s a difference in the .... fill in the blank ....

Purists believe that any failing is a death sentence...

Everyone responds to pressure differently... and, I like to think that it is possible for all things to be a learning experience...

Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.

[qazplm135]

140. the dont be an asshole test

there are plenty of other women and progressives to vote for.

[UpInArms]

160. Each of us vote for the person we believe will do best

That is how I enter the voting booth ... every time

Peace

[whathehell]

146. Exactly...

The "double standard" can get very obvious at times.

[Catch2.2]

162. Agreed

We don't know all the details of this situation. Just because "politics are tough", doesn't give someone the excuse to mistreat their employees.

[customerserviceguy]

112. Physical violence

except in self-defense, is never justified. Especially in an employer-employee situation.

[leftofcool]

139. If someone is throwing things, get out of the way.

Better yet, quit. There are hundreds of people who would be happy to have the job.

[whathehell]

145. Or better yet, throw things back at them

I don't know 'hundreds' of people who would "love" having an abusive asshole as a boss, but, whatever.

[Catch2.2]

161. It's not that easy

A lot of people can't just quit their job. They have bills to pay, families to feed. Not to mention having to explain quitting from a previous employer. Some jobs/careers have extensive interview/background processes. Trying to explain that you quit because your boss was mean, doesn't always go over well. A lot of times it's a red flag.

[whathehell]

144. Thank you...

I don't like toxic bosses, myself.

[smirkymonkey]

178. +1000

I don't think abusiveness is the kind of trait that I want in a leader. Even if they are a solid Democrat.

[Ms. Toad]

24. Just like those whiny-assed secretaries who finally said,

"Hey - making your coffee is not in my job description"?

[DontBooVote]

30. No, it is not "just like" that. And don't attempt to make me out to be someone I am not by

Last edited Sun Feb 10, 2019, 06:18 PM - Edit history (1)

saying such a ridiculous thing.

[Kingofalldems]

50. Appropriate response.

[elias7]

56. Don't you just hate false equivalencies?

[DontBooVote]

60. Yes. And I hate it even more when someone tries to make you look like someone you are

not by inferring things about you, even trying to make you look as if you believe the diametric opposite of how you really think and how you've lived your life.

Not even a good try at it, either. SMH.

[elias7]

104. You mean you're not a sexist paternalistic authoritative domineering d-bag?

[lunatica]

75. Good response.

I was recently accused by same of something just as ridiculous. I responded too, though it obviously didn’t do much good.

[jberryhill]

54. You know what?

My son spent several months as the driver for a US Senator. He’s got a degree in public policy, and his job was to transport this Senator to a dizzying array of engagements and make sure he got there fed, rested, and ready to do whatever the occasion demanded.

If a US Senator wants his coffee and snacks just so, then you make fucking sure his coffee and snacks are just so. This is one of the couple of dozen most powerful people on the planet, and if they need a shirt picked up from the cleaners, then you are going to the cleaners to get that shirt or you can forget about the PRIVILEGE it is to be able to put “US Senate Staffer” on your resume.

[DontBooVote]

65. Especially if that is the very job description, as well as an understood aspect of the job for

which you have applied, and accepted.

I'm in that job, I'm giving that senator a foot massage with my own hands, if that's what he or she wants.

We all know how short time is, especially when you are a leader.

And the gullibility of some people, right there on the eve of her announcement for president, from "anonymous sources". Until someone, with an actual name, goes on record to state for the record that Sen. Klobachar has thrown shit at them, this is nothing but russian-level manipulation and anyone who falls for it should take a few hours to look into the mirror ask themselves if they are really going to allow themselves to be manipulated in such a way.

[pazzyanne]

73. Hear, hear!

[2naSalit]

93. Work ethic. Seems like such a simple thing

yet few recognize it or understand why it matters.

[Ms. Toad]

175. The law clerks I know, however, were not so thrilled

to be babysitters, drivers, turn-a-blind-eye to the state appellate/supreme court justice undressing in the back seat. (All attorneys, all female. None of the clerks I know who worked for male judges were subjected to such job demands - and none (working for either gender) believed such tasks were in appropriately part of their job descriptions.

[whathehell]

148. Exactly.. n/t

[dflprincess]

179. The complaints date back to her time as

Hennepin County Attorney. There were more than a few, mostly women who, apparently, we are suppose to write off as "whiny-assed" rather than ask if their complaints were/are legitimate.

I don't recall anyone here objecting to McCain's temperament being questioned when he ran in 2008

[jberryhill]

52. And so what? She's not running to be my boss

Some people don’t handle pressure well, other people thrive in it. Who cares if she’s a difficult boss?

[qazplm135]

89. I like my candidates

to not be assholes personally. If the accusations are true, then she will struggle to break that barrier for me.

[customerserviceguy]

113. Well said

You can't sell "Minnesota Nice" while being a jerk in private. We have plenty of candidates who have been both firm and fair in their dealings with the people who work for them.

[kevink077]

132. Agree

I have worked for nightmare bosses like this. No sale sorry to say. These issues seem to go back a very long time. She cannot manage a staff and has an anger management problem.

[whathehell]

149. "So what"?...It goes to this thing called "character".

Some of us care about it.

[jberryhill]

155. And a US Senate office is a demanding work environment

I'm certain you will find disgruntled persons who got their buns chapped by working just about anywhere.

[whathehell]

157. I'm sorry if you think tolerating physical abuse is part and parcel of

a "demanding" job, but employers can and do get sued for this kind of behavior. Workplace bullying and harassment doesn't have to be about sex.

[smirkymonkey]

180. I completely agree with you.

I think the inability to manage one's temper is a sign of weakness. And being abusive toward subordinates tells me that this person does not embrace the qualities I would look for in a leader. Everyone has a bad day, but this seems to be the way she rolls most of the time. I'm not impressed.

[whathehell]

188. Yes, those are my sentiments exactly.

Former Senate Leader Harry Reid reprimanded her for her behavior.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530

[cwydro]

156. I don't think she is actually.

I think she’s saying fuck this shit, that she’s not going to get in the mud with this nonsense.

Good answer on her part.

[calimary]

163. So how many male Senators are tough taskmasters and never called out for it?

Double standard much?

Sheesh - when Barbra Streisand directed her first film (“Yentl”, in 1983, in which she also starred) she got shit for this, too. I remember her being lambasted as a “bitch” because she was forceful and meticulous - holding herself and everybody else to a high standard, because it WAS, after all, HER movie.

It was also pointed out how sexist this criticism was. The first female studio chiefs Dawn Steele and Sherry Lansing found the same thing. When they were strong executives they too were lambasted as “bitches” and “ball-busters” - AND WORSE (“man-haters” and even “lesbians” for examples - insulting entire groups of women and artificially laying on negativity, in the process!). But a man doing the same things, with the same leadership style? HE would be PRAISED as “strong,” “gutsy,” “bold,” and other positive descriptions.

It was unfair, unjust, undeserved, and sexist then and it’s still that way now.

The climb for women has been slow and hard. We ARE held to a different standard, one that’s artificially imposed on us by others based on THEIR OWN cockeyed and wrong-headed thinking. That old bullshit has been awfully hard to fight through!

[Demit]

190. Good, thoughtful post. Of course, the naysayers won't see themselves in it.

They have decided. When men take charge it's good, whatever their management style is. When women take charge their management style is supposed to be "nice.". Women don't dare manage in the way that men do! That makes them wrong, that makes them bullies. Women are expected to be nurturing, as if their staff are a bunch of nestlings that need to be fed.

[pnwmom]

195. No, she isn't. She also explained that many of her staffers were hired by Obama

which is a sign of how good they were. When you are a good boss, you applaud your former employees for being able to move up, even if that means leaving you.

[ooky]

3. It wouldn't bother me to have a strong woman in the White House.

Especially after the wimp we have now.

Good response.

[GWC58]

14. Especially one who can stand up

to the Putin’s & Uns of the world. God knows this one won’t or, worse, can’t!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. Its clear we have several strong, capable women who will work tirelessly to defeat the toxic traitor

occupying the White House.

[customerserviceguy]

114. So

Trump being an asshole justifies whatever comes next?

Maybe if Klobuchar is our only choice other than Trump, but we still have a lot of choices at this point in time.

[ooky]

116. Don't

read into things that aren't there. Nobody said she was our only choice. Not even implied.

[customerserviceguy]

118. At some point

she might be, and I have to admit, that no matter what comes out of her staff, past and present, is something I will have to choose to ignore if negative, when it comes to a choice between her and the orange anus.

I will wait to see what the news media and the oppo research people for the other campaigns can unearth, if there is anything.

[whathehell]

153. Really strong women don't abuse subordinates..

That sounds more like bullying.

[smirkymonkey]

181. +1000

[whathehell]

187. Thank you, Smirky

Back at ya.

[ooky]

184. Abuse is a strong accusation.

So is bullying. I don't support either, but I haven't seen any evidence of either presented in this case. From what I've heard so far I would summize that she has high expectations of the people that work for her, and pushes them. I'm not going to fault her for that.

I was once on the staff of a VP who had very high expectations of his directors and department managers. We had turnover too. But he had a job to do that he counted on us to do our jobs with the expected commitment so he would meet his deliverables to our CEO and our shareholders. He was tough, but he didn't abuse and he didn't bully. Maybe Amy didn't either. Abuse is not synonomous to being strong or demanding.

She's going to be on Rachel tonight. I expect it will come up and it will be interesting to see what kind of questions Rachel asks her about it.

[whathehell]

186. I'd call sending demeaning emails and throwing things "abusive".

Even Harry Reid criticized her for mistreating her staff.


https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530

[ooky]

189. What did she throw?

[whathehell]

191. Office supplies, I believe..

She wlso expects her staff to do some of her housework, like washing dishes, straightening her closet and picking her dclothes off the floor... Seriously.

Here's a link to the Huffpost article.
https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530

[ooky]

196. To be honest,

one of my adult children has type 1 diabetes, so the health care crisis is a real threat to us, to his livlihood, to his family's livlihood, including my grandchildren, and possibly a threat to his life, if health care doesn't soon get fixed. So if I thought she had the right policy positions and abilities to deliver affordable health care to all, none of the things that have been said or "alleged" about her in the Huffington Post would be enough for me not to vote for her. And I would not care who she "offends" to get it done. I need results, and soon. I'm not going to assume "abuse", I don't know what her staff's job descriptions are, and in short there isn't enough here for me to say she is unfit. I can see she has made some enemies along the way though, and I would agree she has probably pushed it. She's not perfect, but she might be effective.

That said, if its enough for you, I can respect that. I can agree to disagree. Incidentally, she isn't my first choice, for now, Brown is, if he runs, and I like some other candidates as well. I'm not locked in yet. But I'm going to be listening closely to health care proposals, and judge their feasibility of ever becoming reality; also, taxation. I want the tax scam repealed. Those are my swing issues for the primaries, along with electability.

[whathehell]

197. I understand..

but I do think you'd get healthcare relief from any Democratic candidate. I like Brown too, though my first choice is Elizabeth Warren.
As to Klobuchar, I rather liked her too before I got wind of her documented 10 year history of employee abuse.

That said, I'll have to vote for whoever's nominated, even if I'm holding my nose doing it..

[bdamomma]

4. Well there!

I can hear her say. Very determined with her comment too.

[Siwsan]

5. At least she's addressed it, but....

You can have high expectations of yourself and everyone else, without being abusive. Those are the claims, if true, that I find disturbing.

[DURHAM D]

10. If you fire someone for being divisive and pissing off

the other longtime staff/employees is that "disturbing"?

I was a business owner and I am a female. Divisive people are poison. The sooner you remove them the better.

If you don't let them go the loyal hardworking staff will start to resent the boss. I learned this early on.

[Siwsan]

16. I think I'm stuck on the reports she throws things, even indirectly, at people

I've worked for some really tough bosses, both in the Navy and as a civilian, who were still respectful of their subordinates. If a boss has to yell or throw things, the problem might be with them, rather than entirely with their employees.

But I ABSOLUTELY agree about the divisive people scenario. I retired a good 3 years early because the company I worked for didn't remove a VERY divisive and hostile employee.

[DURHAM D]

22. I have not seen any believable reports of her throwing stuff. nt

[Siwsan]

28. I haven't read of anyone refuting what's out there, but maybe that's the best tactic

To be honest, she's not at the top of my 'wish' list, but it's VERY early days. I'll do some reading up, on her.

[Volaris]

42. My only critique is that I'm not sure that requires thrown objects...

I've pissed my boss off on more than one occasion, and haven't been fired yet. I've also never had her throw things at me sooo...

[DURHAM D]

46. Are there thrown objects?

Where did you read this?

I am seeing comments around the internuts that this narrative is being pushed by some party insiders that are waiting for Joe Biden.

[whathehell]

154. It certainly doesn't.. That's abuse, and sounds like it could

qualify as assault.

[Blue_true]

47. On the money. nt

[Demit]

15. And sometimes "abuse" is just perception.

call me when there's video of this abuse so I can see for myself how "disturbing" it actually is.

[Siwsan]

18. Yes - you are absolutely right.

But her high turn over rate speaks, to me, of a problem.

[Demit]

41. The problem might be that not everyone is cut out to work in a high-powered, high stress environment

It's true in big-law law firms, it's true in politics. Things move fast, things are always needed yesterday, it's high stakes stuff and you have to be devoted to it. "If you don't come in on Saturday, don't bother coming in on Sunday" is an old joke but it's true. Or, as a president once said, "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen." So some people do.

[customerserviceguy]

115. So

she has chosen staffers that are less emotionally equipped to deal with the stresses of working on staff for a Senator than most other Senators? What does that say about her ability to choose suitable people to work with her?

Nice way to play "blame the victim", by the way. I'm still waiting for the answers to some tough questions on this issue.

[Demit]

131. People who don't like stressful jobs aren't victims. They're people who don't like stressful jobs.

I hope you get all your tough questions answered. Something tells me, though, you've already decided in your own mind what the answers are, and any other possibilities won't satisfy you.

[whathehell]

152. Lol.. There's a difference between a "stressful"work environment and

an abusive one.

[whathehell]

172. Why would her office be more stressed than that of other senators?

She has the highest staff turnover in the entire Senate.

[Demit]

173. For any number of reasons.

In any system of comparison, there's always going to be a highest/lowest or most/least. Even when the difference is slight. Even when there are all different contributing factors. You're letting one article guide your judgment about it.

I have a question for you: How, practically speaking, would how she deals with her staff affect how she would be as president? If you think that it would negatively impact her policies, or how she interacts with foreign leaders, or how she approaches global problems, then you have your reason for why you can't in good conscience vote for her.

Me, I think that article is making a mountain out of a molehill. Maybe you should ask why THAT is.

[whathehell]

176. Name some..

After that, you should realize that this isn't a matter of letting "one article" affect my judgement -- There have been several reports of her bad behavior -- Even former Senate Leader Harry Reid chided her for mistreating subordinates.

However people in power treat "global leaders", their treatment of subordinates, speaks volumes about their character. We already have one bully in the Whitehouse, I don't want another

[Demit]

177. There are various reasons for people leaving political jobs listed throughout this thread.

Anyway, if you think how a senator deals with her staff (based on the several reports you've heard!) will affect her abilities as president, or that these several reports you've heard mean that she is just like Trump, well, don't vote for her. I think it's a stupid basis for judging a candidate's qualifications, myself. She's not running for den mother. Beyond that, I don't have anything else to offer you. You've made up your mind.

[whathehell]

185. Character counts, dear

Democrats generally understand that.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5c5db1ece4b03afe8d674530

[Fla Dem]

76. I commented on this in another thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=11803363

Personal staff
In 2000, every Representative hired 14 staff members, while the average Senator hired 34. In 2000, Representatives had a limit of 18 full-time and four part-time staffers; Senators had no limit on staff.[5] Budgets for staff were determined by the population of the state; Senators from California, the most populous state, get more money for staff than Senators from Wyoming, the least populous state. Members can choose how to distribute staff between their Washington office and their United States congressional district home office or offices.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_staff

According to the above, on average, a Senator has about 34 staff. Some in DC others in their home state headquarters. The article cited 4 former staffer and emails. Former staff were not identified and emails were not published. Not saying they don't exist, but hard to rely on anything without some documented proof.

Also claim was made that Sen Klobuchar had the highest staff turnover.

In the Senate, Minnesota Democrat Amy Klobuchar led the pack with an annual turnover rate of 36 percent, followed by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) with 30 percent and Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) with 28 percent.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/21/worst-bosses-congress-476729

Maybe because she does have high performance standard she produces more excellent candidates to fill high ranking positions in other government positions.

“Senator Klobuchar loves her staff ― they are the reason she has gotten to where she is today,” a campaign spokesperson told HuffPost. “She has many staff who have been with her for years ― including her Chief of Staff and her State Director, who have worked for her for 5 and 7 years respectively ― and many who have gone on to do amazing things, from working in the Obama Administration (over 20 of them) to running for office to even serving as the Agriculture Commissioner for Minnesota. She is proud of them and the work they have done for Minnesota.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/amy-klobuchar-abuse-staff-2020_us_5c5a1cb1e4b0871047588649

I haven't decided yet which candidate I'm hitching my wagon to for 2020, but I do like Sen Klobuchar and what she has done. I would be disappointed if these complaints have more substance than just the regular complaining of any disgruntled employee.

[whathehell]

169. Yes -- It speaks volumes. n/t.

[pnwmom]

19. And women leaders who behave in exactly the same way as men are perceived

as not-nice when they are assertive or demanding.

[Boomer]

151. Klobuchar staff turnover is a fact

Data gathered from the Senate shows she had the highest office staff turnover for five years running. That's concerning because I don't want yet another POTUS with a revolving door of key White House staff.

She needs some anger management counseling.

[Caliman73]

168. Are you asserting that the 36% turnover rate is solely based on her behavior?

Could it be a combination of some people leaving because of the demands and some people moving to to other things like running for office, promotions, etc..?

I am not disputing that she may not treat her staff all that well, but it appears that people are very quick to disqualify Klobuchar without a larger context, especially when such behavior would likely be overlooked or even praised in a male counterpart.

[Boomer]

193. It's a matter of comparative degree

If Klobuchar has "high staff turnover" I wouldn't think twice about it, except as the usual sexist standards applied to women who are supposed to be nice.

But "five years of the highest staff turnover in the Senate" kicks that up a notch. This goes beyond being a boss with high standards and into the realm of dysfunctional management.

[pnwmom]

17. There is no evidence that she's been abusive, just some anonymous griping.

Her attrition rate was 36% over 6 years, as compared to Barbara Jackson Lee's at 62%.

And even BJL's rate is not particularly high on an annual basis -- just over 10% a year.

And Legistorm, the outfit that collected the data, made the point (overlooked in most of the TV reports) that there are lots of reasons for attrition, including the fact that many staffers are interns and others who are moving on to better or more challenging positions.

[Siwsan]

20. Thanks for the information!

[pnwmom]

25. Here's the Politico article at the bottom of this, headlined the Worst Bosses of the Senate,

a claim made based on attrition rates. But the article itself contains a disclaimer that attrition might have little to do with a "toxic environment."

So the fact that this is coming out now makes me think someone is trying to kneecap AK, by going after her for something that is supposed to be her strength -- her likability in Minnesota and the midwest.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/21/worst-bosses-congress-476729

“It’s much more important, for example, if a chief of staff turns over than if a lowly staff assistant turns over,” said Jock Friedly, LegiStorm’s CEO and founder. “It’s perfectly normal for a staff assistant to turn over. And obviously it’s particularly usual for paid interns to turn over so that obviously has little impact on an office.”


The office of Texas Democratic Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee topped the list in the House, with an annual turnover rate of 62 percent, according to LegiStorm. Rep. Raul Ruiz (D-Calif.) came in behind her with 60 percent annual turnover, followed by Rep. Mark Sanford (R-S.C.) with 54 percent.

In the Senate, Minnesota Democrat Amy Klobuchar led the pack with an annual turnover rate of 36 percent, followed by Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.) with 30 percent and Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) with 28 percent.

LegiStorm declines to guess whether the high turnover stems from a toxic work environment or employees simply advancing in their careers.

SNIP

The office of Texas GOP Rep. Kay Granger, which had the seventh-highest annual turnover rate in the House from 2001 to 2016, said her office has been a launching pad for staffers, who have gone on to serve in the Bush administration and congressional leadership. Barrett Karr, Granger’s former chief of staff, for example, is House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy’s chief of staff.

“Congresswoman Granger hires the best, and when staff does decide to leave, they go to work for influential people or businesses,” said Kevin Boland, Granger’s communications director. “She appreciates the dedication and hard work of her current and former staff members.”

[Siwsan]

31. Thanks for the link

I think the 'kneecapping' is going to be something affecting a lot of our candidates. And, it's very unfortunate. Especially considering the hot moral, ethical and legal mess the GOP has on their plate.

[Ms. Toad]

27. I'm pretty sure that one or both of the initial outlets

were given copies of emails from Klobuchar. Hardly anonymous griping when those doing the reporting were doing so based on emails Klobuchar actually wrote.

[pnwmom]

33. What did the emails say? I haven't read any details. n/t

[Kingofalldems]

48. But her emails!!!111!!

[pazzyanne]

77. Sounds familiar doesn't it!

[mcar]

92. Not to mention that DC is an expensive city

in which to live on a govt salary.

[customerserviceguy]

117. Let's see

We have not only the attrition rate, especially odd considering "Minnesota Nice", but we have the union letter from before her assuming the office of Senator, and the fact that Harry Reid needed to step in.

Enough evidence for a conviction? No, of course not, but enough evidence to continue being suspicious and be cognizant of what comes out next.

[pnwmom]

119. No, her attrition rate of 36% isn't even high. It's only about 6% a year. And the firm that did the

calculations, Legistorm, specifically said that no conclusions could be drawn by the number. Politico's headline writer decided to spin with the title, "worst bosses," but Legistorm said that there there are a number of factors that affect attrition, including the # of interns, people getting opportunities for better paying or more challenging jobs, etc.

But I don't hear anyone complaining about Barbara Jackson Lee's 62% rate over the same time period, or the numerous House members who had higher attrition than Klobuchar.

The local union had heard a couple complaints from her staffers, and they seemed to be especially disgruntled that they hadn't gotten the pay raises they were hoping for. She fought for pay raises but it was beyond her control.

We don't know that Reid had to step in. His office says he doesn't remember that happening.

[customerserviceguy]

120. If Rep. Lee were running for president

you would certainly hear complaints in the media about her turnover rate.

You want the top job, expect to be scrutinized. You want to represent a district that has been gerrymandered to the point where any Democratic incumbent can repeatedly be reelected, then you will probably get a pass from the media, not wanting to waste ink.

There's more to come on this story, and I plan to pay some attention to whatever it is.

[pnwmom]

121. The FACT is that her attrition rate isn't actually high, and the range in the Senate

is tighter than in the House. Whether someone has a 3% or a 6% annual attrition rate really isn't important; both numbers are small. I once worked in an office where there was a 75% attrition over 2 years. THAT was high.

I think the "more" to this story is that, in Minnesota, Amy is personally very popular, and many thought she'd bring that same strength to other swing states. So someone is going after her now, on the same weekend that she announces, to try to knee-cap her -- to take a whack at her reputation for "likability."

[customerserviceguy]

122. You're right, 75%

over two years is very high, but I'm guessing that your boss only had to please his or her boss, and not too many other people. There will be more questions, and more answers, and I will be attuned to all of them.

Frankly, her biggest problem is probably name recognition. I doubt that one American in ten has ever heard of her before today. Senators Harris and Booker got most of the coverage on our side in the Kavanaugh hearings.

[pnwmom]

124. I don't know why my boss survived multiple years of turnover like that,

but it wasn't because she didn't have many people above her to please. They even gave her an extra staffer -- me -- to stand between her and the people she was making miserable, and I got out as soon as I could.

She was my first experience with a boss who was a narcissist, though I had had one in my personal life. I don't see evidence of that in Klobuchar.

[customerserviceguy]

126. Is the place where you worked

in a business that effectively had competitors? My last job was customer service for a utility company that had no competitors, so it was not the case that an abusive or demeaning boss would have hurt the company in market share by driving away the best people.

My lady left a place about six months ago, from a department with horrendous hours (16 hour shifts, tough when you are in your early 60's!) , just to get away from her customer service supervisor, who has turned over 75% of that department in the time that my lady has been away from it, three to four years ago. She explicitly complained in her exit interview, but some firms just don't give a rat's patoot.

It's difficult to believe this could go on in an industry where you have competition that would attract the best people and motivate them properly, with incentives and decency rather than threats and intimidation. However, there are only two Senators from each state, and only one hundred overall that you could work for if you wanted to be a Senate staffer, which is pretty close to a monopolistic entity.

[pnwmom]

127. It was at a university, but there were several other academic institutions in the city,

so I guess it had competitors. But, no, I wasn't working in a field like sales, where they'd really want to keep the most profitable people. We were part of the overhead, as it were. And the number of similar jobs was limited.

[a kennedy]

6. Loved that she responded to it, and good for her.

[KewlKat]

7. I sat and wept as I watched her speak. I haven't done that since Hillary. Even my hubby said he

liked what he heard and said send her some money.

[DontBooVote]

9. "send her some money" ....

Way to go KewlKat's hubby!

[DURHAM D]

13. I was surprised at my own reaction.

I have not yet picked my candidate.

[ooky]

51. She moved on to my radar scope today.

Solid speech, said a lot of the things I want to hear. I'll be paying closer attention to her now. I like her.

[KewlKat]

61. That was our opinion as well.

[exboyfil]

11. This is a quote I like from The Godfather

Moe Greene:

"I got a business to run. I gotta kick asses sometimes to make it run right. We had a little argument, Freddy and me, so I had to straighten him out."


She would benefit by having a trusted management coach on her campaign team assuming that this is really a problem.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

39. Unfortunately, it didn't help Moe Greene's case.

Not on Baptism day.

[Blue_true]

53. Claim jumper. You beat me to it. nt

[empedocles]

12. I like the combination prosecutor and Senator. This gives Amy a better position,

knowledge and platform wise, to go after traitortrump, in the campaign.

Also, Amy seems sensible, and has a regular, special approachable appeal.

[riverwalker]

21. End of story.

Getting an “all caps email” from your boss is not “abuse”. This whole thing is ridiculous.

[First Speaker]

26. Joe Biden's temper with his staff was legendary...

...and you never heard a peep about it. Largely because he was also supportive, and fair. His people--and I knew one--would always wince when they saw he was in one of his moods...and also run thru a brick wall for him. I suspect Ms Klobuchar is similar, and I know that much of this story is imbued with sexist stereotypes...

[pnwmom]

34. I had a male boss who also put the fear of God into people, as his Executive Assistant would say.

But she also said he was eminently fair, and I agreed. That's why I was happy to work with him.

I agree with you, that that might be the kind of boss Amy is -- but some people don't react well to the same behavior on the part of a woman that they would accept from a man.

[NewJeffCT]

138. Wasn't Bill Clinton known for having a bad temper as well?

not to mention LBJ.

[BeyondGeography]

29. Good chicken salad response

I won’t pretend to know the truth, but that answer makes the best of a not great situation. An encouraging indicator, at least on the communications front.

[DesertRat]

35. If she were male and "tough", she'd be admired for it

Here's how the Not Likeable bias is affecting women leaders:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/pragyaagarwaleurope/2018/10/23/not-very-likeable-here-is-how-bias-is-affecting-women-leaders/

[Ferrets are Cool]

59. Not by me. nt

[TimeToGo]

79. No

If he is abusive, no. Now, that's the question -- is she, or is she just strong. People are coming out of the woodwork to attack all our candidates. So, I would want to know a lot more. I would not want to support a candidate who was harsh down, and sweet out. That is a strong, telling character flaw.

But, let's rush to judgement on no one.

[USALiberal]

94. Tough is throwing objects? ok. nt

[smirkymonkey]

182. I would think just as poorly of a man who treated his staff that way.

It has nothing to do with her gender.

[NNadir]

36. I went to dinner with some friends last night who were gushing over her. I don't know very...

...much about her, or for that matter, any of the other candidates, but the one thing we need in this country is a candidate who can wipe the floor with the remains of this racist, ignorant, very stupid and corrupt orange asshole in the White House.

It may be her, or one of the many other fine candidates of whom I'm learning, but I don't know.

[Awsi Dooger]

37. That is very similar to what I wrote in a thread last night

Regarding the proper response, and what I expected her to say.

Not complicated at all. I would have been surprised if someone of Amy's caliber would have taken it in a different direction.

A less capable and less instinctive person would have been scrambling to have some recent or current staffer standing alongside while making awkward positive remarks.

Amy will be asked to elaborate on the talk shows in coming days. She'll handle it extraordinarily well.

[jalan48]

38. Good answer, we'll see how that plays out for her.

[Honeycombe8]

40. I don't know what the specifics are. But abusive is different from demanding, IMO.

I've seen both. I've experienced both. There is a difference. The former is not conducive to good business and is not about good work or team work or good results. "Demanding" is what is necessary to produce good results in a demanding field.

I have no doubt that working on Mueller's team in any capacity is very demanding. I also doubt that it's abusive. Because that wouldn't be constructive.

Abuse is not about a good work ethic or demanding excellence.

[treestar]

96. Boot camp is similar

They are tough on recruits. To prepare them for a demanding job. Nobody calls it abuse.

[Stand and Fight]

166. No. We're tough on recruits, because when you're being shot at you need to follow orders quickly.

Failure to do so could result in your death or that of your fellow service members. That's no where near the same thing.

[treestar]

167. I'm not saying it's as dangerous

but that it is similar in nature, so perhaps it should not be as extreme, but but if the job is one where you are involved in decisions that could affect people's lives, (and in working for the POTUS would include the military) you might want to be very thick-skinned.

[jpak]

43. If Amy Klobuchar was a man doing this - nothing would be said

Just sayin'

[LongtimeAZDem]

107. If a male boss threw stuff at his employees, he'd be arrested

I don't know if she did such things, or not, but I'm amazed at how many people think this kind of behavior is acceptable.

[Demit]

108. My goodness, is that so? I guess you have examples of that?

Please share.

[LongtimeAZDem]

110. Sure

When the DES Office of Inspector General investigated, witnesses corroborated the employee's story of verbal and physical abuse, and the supervisor was arrested last week at work by armed OIG officers.

https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-des-worker-terrorized-by-abusive-boss-wanted-to-get-gun-and-shoot-someone-8239541

[smirkymonkey]

183. I work for a large Fortune 100 company.

If anyone acted that way, even an executive, they would be tossed out on their ass eventually - or immediately depending upon the severity of the assault. Abuse is not tolerated, no matter who is dishing it out. People are expected to behave themselves, and almost always do, regardless of the pressure they may be under.

[Boomer]

194. Same here.

Emotional abuse is not tolerated. We're held to high standards of productivity and professionalism, which includes basic respect for staff below and above.

[whathehell]

192. Not true...Abusive behavior by males is both resented and reported.

I'm female and have worked for both males and females who were abusive. They both suck.

[Mike Nelson]

44. Another stupid...

… scandal. She's tough on staff! Elizabeth Warren was proud of Native American heritage! Hillary Clinton wanted a private email server! … considering the real scandals going on in the White House, these are really dumb.

[PeeJ52]

45. If she was able to keep her head with the way Kavanaugh was acting without exploding...

I'd say maybe some of the stories might be a little exaggerated. If she was a hothead, she would have blown her stack there for sure.

[Blue_true]

55. I agree. She would have ripped him a second asshole.

Instead, she interrogated his ass and made him look like a jackass.

[customerserviceguy]

123. There are people

who have a public side and a somewhat contrasting private side. I'm not saying that Sen. Klobuchar is one of them for sure, but where there's smoke, there may be fire.

[Kingofalldems]

49. Side note: The great Chelsea Janes, former Nationals beat reporter

now doing a great job covering the political scene.

[Ferrets are Cool]

57. Biting my tongue. nt

[uponit7771]

62. Another "But Her Emails" issue ... I pray she has the discipline to just refer to this response

[elias7]

63. I thought she was highly effective and compelling during Kavanaugh hearing

As someone who has gone through the total immersion of a grueling medical residency, I know that sometimes you need extraordinary measures to learn to dig deep and realize that when something needs to get done, you get it done. There is no try, only do...

[Paladin]

64. I have a low tolerance for abusive bosses, male or female. I've seen the damage done.

If it comes down to a Klobuchar vs. trump contest, I will of course vote for her. For now, I'll support another Democratic candidate.

[jmbar2]

71. Total agreement

These stories are a big red flag for me, especially with so many good candidates available.

Having seen the toxic atmosphere created by a toxic leader, I am in wait and see mode. I have zero tolerance for abusive behavior anywhere. Great leaders hire great people and treat them with respect

[Ferrets are Cool]

100. +1

[customerserviceguy]

125. Same here

on the support in the general election thing, but I too have had nasty ass bosses.

Overall, the women I worked for were better than the men I worked for, but there were a couple of female supervisors who were way worse than any man I ever reported to. The best women bosses had an empathy that the best male managers could have only wished to aspire to.

[nini]

143. Exactly my feelings on this

[Pepsidog]

66. As a man I say, good for her. She has nothing to explain.

[Kurt V.]

67. as many former and current staffers acknowledge she is tough

and thank her profusely for it. not everyone can take that. i couldn't, but i could move on.

[Oneironaut]

68. LOL How fucking stupid this is.

LBJ used to loom over people and scream in their faces.

I don't want leaders who would be my friend. They have a country to lead.

[ISUGRADIA]

72. Got it

Important people get to bully those below them, great idea! LBJ would intentionally humiliate people making them talk to him when he was sitting on the toilet.

A lot of these staffers are young in their 20s and don’t even make minimum-wage given they are salaried.

[Oneironaut]

158. Tbh, I think you missed the point I was making.

Of course bullying isn’t ok - especially by bosses and people in positions of power. However, this is more shooting ourselves in the foot. I don’t care if our next President is a nice person. Their job is to keep our country on the right course - we aren’t going to the movies together on the weekend!

Being a nice person isn’t a requirement for the office. I would prefer someone who makes our lives better.

[treestar]

97. How often president Obama was said to

Be short of LBJ who could have gotten single payer through due to this. Obama was “too nice.” Saw plenty of that on DU.

[barbtries]

69. i worked for a brilliant woman.

she was kind, generous, unbelievably energetic, and she could be vicious. we're still friends. not all of my co-workers are still friends with her. many are, including some whom she treated very badly at times. for some reason she very rarely targeted me; i don't know why, but I did have co-workers who I thought should quit.

it's not an excuse. but i can believe the reporting about Klobuchar considering that she did have the highest turnover in Congress. I don't consider it disqualifying necessarily. But it's a minus in my book. Think about the person in the WH right now. I doubt her behavior even qualifies as abusive compared to trump.

[marylandblue]

70. She gave a good answer, ignore the attack.

All candidates will have negative information put out about them. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, it will be played up in the media and by Trump.

What matters is how they respond. Do they wilt or dodge? Or do they take it on and turn it around? Klobuchar turned it around. Good job.

[ISUGRADIA]

74. Dignity and Respect

I think this is indicative of why we need a unionized workforce on Capitol Hill.

[former9thward]

78. This is not a tweet from Klobuchar.

It is a tweet from someone else. There is no link to the quote.

[klook]

81. She said it to an NBC reporter:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/democratic-sen-amy-klobuchar-announces-run-president-n969796

[former9thward]

83. Thanks

[Kingofalldems]

86. So?

The writer of the tweet is a respected reporter for the Washington Post. If you think she is lying let's have some evidence.

[former9thward]

88. I like to see direct quotes and their context.

Sorry if that offends you.

[Laffy Kat]

80. OK, but you can be tough and have high expectations w/o throwing things. nt

[ZeroSomeBrains]

84. Exactly

She's going have to respond to these accusations with more contrition regarding her actions towards her staff. I wouldn't want to work for her if this stuff is considered acceptable behavior. And maybe she should have to act better than LBJ did back in the 60's. That's just my two cents.

[pnwmom]

99. Why more contrition? How do you know it even happened? We're talking about anonymous reports

that are suddenly being pushed on the same weekend that she announces her candidacy.

Color me very skeptical.

[DURHAM D]

105. I see comments around the internet that this narrative

is being pushed by Biden or his people. Joe would certainly be aware of attrition rates in the senate. It is really sort of inside baseball stuff but I guess that must be all that he has.

[Quixote1818]

111. This letter from AFSCME is concerning

This is a pretty scathing letter. I would like someone to dig deeper on these things to get a fuller picture of all this:

https://www.scribd.com/document/399214761/AFSCME-Letter-on-Amy-Klobuchar-2006#from_embed

[pnwmom]

128. Yeah, but the STATE union people did investigate, and they overruled the local group.

The state group had a bigger picture than the local group -- they knew Amy K. had worked for the raises the disgruntled employees were demanding -- and they decided to give Amy got the endorsement.

[Laffy Kat]

129. Where there is this much smoke, there is undoubtedly fire.

It's not a deal-breaker for me by any means and I am well aware of double standards at play. It's just I've worked with tyrants of both sexes and it was miserable. It's not good managing and it's not effective managing. You end up with a staff like our current president has, leaking and bad-mouthing.

[Quixote1818]

137. Really good point about the leaking staff. Nt

[USALiberal]

95. She needs to deny throwing stuff. Simple! nt

[pnwmom]

98. But all we have is an anonymous report from a couple of disgruntled employees.

And one thing the report said is they were unhappy she hadn't been able to get them a higher pay increase.

[pazzyanne]

82. If you are concerned about results, Amy delivers!

I can say this because I am one of her constituents! She easily has won her two re-election bids! She has been on my radar since early 2000, and had no bad press until now! Strange that this surfaces just before she is ready to announce throwing her hat in the ring. We have seen this tactic before, are seeing now on a national level, and it is just going to get worse as we move toward the 2020 election. Everyone has a chance to vet her themselves. I am just suggesting that the vetting be a total picture vetting, not focused on anonymous conjecture. Looking forward to the people making allegations stepping forward with their names attached!

[yaesu]

85. While still in high school I took a summer job

at a wood shop that made pallets for shipping. While working at the band saw the owner would show up, drunk, screaming at you to work faster, a very dangerous proposition when working with power saws. Now thats worker abuse.

[Quixote1818]

101. I think where I come down on this is that I am suspicious enough to take her out of my top teer

but it seems minor enough that if she gets the nomination it would be a tiny speck of an issue compared to ANY Republican!

The letter from the union refusing to endorse her because of treatment of her employees means something was going on.

[jalan48]

102. She's going to be great for SNL.

[spanone]

103. K&R...👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼

[gulliver]

106. Need to see more. She didn't do well when Kavanaugh insulted her.

She asked Kavanaugh whether he had ever had so much to drink he blacked out. He asked her, "Have you?" He did it a couple of times. Her response could have been a lot stronger there. She should have stood up from her chair, scowled, and gutted him like a fish. She could have said something like, "Are you seriously acting like a naughty ten-year-old on live TV in front of the Senate? Chairman, I have nothing further to ask Mr. Kavanaugh. He's plainly unfit to serve on the Supreme Court or any court. He doesn't have the maturity."

Instead she just said she didn't have a drinking problem.

Kavanaugh later apologized. He got away with the insult. Klobuchar later said she was stunned by his behavior or some such. That's no excuse in my book. By being stunned, she blew an opportunity to nail Kavanaugh.

I'll need to see more from her to trust she won't be "stunned" if/when she confronts Trump. Pelosi hasn't been.

[Awsi Dooger]

130. That would have been a great method to throw away her likability

It would have done nothing to Kavanaugh's bottom line toward confirmation.

Stand up and scowl? Acting like a 10-year old? Reminds me of the posters who want someone to shout, "You lie."

Klobuchar was much the best with Kavanaugh. I emphasized it immediately. It was obvious at the time, to anyone who knows what swing voters prioritize. That's why she has received so much praise for that questioning.

[IluvPitties]

109. Toughness is good. Abuse is bad. She's my favorite candidate so far but,

abusive people are not my cup of tea. I hope this gets clarified.

[brooklynite]

133. A good response...

Now, what about all the people who insisted that this story story was made up?

[Vinca]

135. I was bothered by this at first, but the more I think about it the more it's not "a thing."

I don't think you can expect hearts and flowers at the end of the day if you're a political aide. It's a tough business and not everyone is suited to it. I read somewhere that the person complaining about doing personal errands for her has a job with a description that includes running personal errands.

[Rene]

136. she should forget it. she's going to run into the Franken wall

folks remember. won't let her get away with it

[Act_of_Reparation]

141. 5,974 People Find This Canned Response Convincing.

"I can be though". "I run a tight ship". "I'm demanding". "I push my employees".

Every bad boss has the same excuse for being a bad boss.

[nini]

142. High expectations and bullying are two different things

I'm a manager - I expect the same level of hard work from my team as I do myself.

However, I don't cut them down in front of others, demean them if they're too slow or not perfect etc..

She's known for going way beyond 'having high expectations'.

[Boomer]

150. Major fail - this is bullshit

I don't want a Dem version of an abusive POTUS setting up yet another revolving door of White House staff.

A White House staff that walks on eggshells is not focused on their job and will hesitate before speaking Truth to Power. That's not the kind of POTUS this country needs.

[Texin]

159. Well, did anybody actually think she wouldn't be tough as nails?

My god. She was a successful prosecutor. A woman in that kind of job has got to be tough as nails. Hell, a woman in any professional position or elected office that is, and has been, traditionally male-dominated, has got to be three or four times harder and more professional than the average male. And because they are, and they are successful, they are consistently going to be criticized as being hard and demanding. So what? These ninnies haven't been around the average male executive professional? Why is "demanding" behavior, which includes stating unambiguous expectations and meting out reasonable criticism when demanded. As people have noted, there are some positions, professional or political, that are highly stressful because of the absolute critical role that person plays. These are the type of positions in which the person occupying the position or office must account to the people they represent. Anyone accepting a role within such an organization, campaign, political office, should sure understand that going in. Staffers working for such a person know that the job is going to be stressful and demand more than putting in a mere eight hours. When they slack or wilt under pressure and an assignment gets blown or a deadline missed may mean the difference between meeting a critical challenge or winning a particular case, or race. People that can't handle that kind of environment should not be in the position to begin with. And any male who is in a similar position as Klobuchar's who was described as "tough" would be respected for it.

[Awsi Dooger]

170. Tough female prosecutor who comes across as calm and likable

Very rare combination.

I don't doubt we'll throw it away.

Your summary was excellent toward the responsibility of those staff roles. I couldn't tolerate poor performance and would likely have some poor moments. But since I'm a 6 foot 4 white male in his late 50s I could undoubtedly get away with it.

[BannonsLiver]

164. So many gullible suckers in this thread who believe an obvious hit piece

Pro tip: if you get an email from someone claiming to be a prince from a far away country who wants to give you millions of dollars don’t respond.

[StevieM]

165. Could you imagine if we had heard these kinds of stories about Hillary?

The media loved to proclaim that her campaign staff was unhappy and undedicated, and didn't even require a shred of evidence to substantiate it. People who weren't on her campaign are given total right to describe the experience that was had by people who were actually on it, and people who were on it are ignored when they speak out.

[Awsi Dooger]

171. Where would, "How Candidate Treats Staff," have slotted on a priority list two weeks ago?

Among let's say 100 check boxes, when considering a potential presidential nominee?

Just an observation. I never see the topic here. But now it's being used as outright disqualifier.

Absolutely amazing how so many people are transfixed by recent news as opposed to the big picture.

[RhodeIslandOne]

174. Don't tell me people are falling for this bullshit here???

No, wait, I'm not surprised.