General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSeth Abramson on what is being reported today related to Senate intelligence investigation.
1/ Any attorneyrather than a journalist pretending to know what the legal terms they're using meanwill tell you that substantial evidence of collusion has been found and the only question is what the standard of proof is to be set at and if you think that standard has been met.
New conversation
2/ When GOP Senate Intel chair Richard Burr was asked that question, he said Americans would have to read the report the Senate eventually creates
likely a long time from nowand will then have to decide for themselves whether it's collusion. That's what he actually said to CBS.
3/ What journalists like @KenDilanianNBC didinstead of explaining how evidence works, and what Burr's words meantwas take a quote in which Burr was saying there'd been no confession or explicit contracts found yet, even though that's *self-evident, predictable, and irrelevant*.
4/ If you or I were in Ken's shoesand we were writing about the most important story of our timesand we were using legal terms we didn't understand, we'd make sure we explained to readers *exactly what we were saying and what we weren't*. Unfortunately, that's not media today.
5/ No attorney with criminal law experience came into the Trump-Russia probe believing one of the conspirators would confess to Congress or that an explicit contract would be found. That absurd standard was set by non-attorney Trump supporters and was then *adopted by the media*.
6/ There may be confessions in the Russia probe before it's over, but they will come *via Mueller's charges/deals*, not Congressand no explicit contract for a conspiracy like this would ever be created, let alone found. We knew all this two years ago. The media pretended not to.
7/ What was expected was that by interviewing witnesses the Senate would find *evidence* of collusion that could be put to a criminal or political jury. And Burr confirmed *that is what happened*. But because the media had misinformed the public about evidence, it misreported it.
8/ The journalists who misreported what Burr said to CBS and what it meant and how evidence works and the fact that most American criminal trials are in fact dominated by circumstantial or indirect evidence should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Rest assured, they are *not*.
9/ As an attorney, I'm ashamed that this has happened to us: that apparently no combination of attorneys and journalists was willing or able to explain at a time of national emergency even the most basic functioning of our justice system, though it was vitally important to do so.
10/ I can only hope that people reading this thread will share it as widely as possible so that the spread of disinformation about evidence and our criminal justice system being perpetuated by folks like @KenDilanianNBC can be mitigated slightly on this one social media platform.
11/ The percent of U.S. criminal cases in which one finds a contract agreeing to commit a crime is *virtually zero*. Confessions are *common*and are *exactly* what Mueller has been getting, behind closed doors, from people like Flynn, Gates, Papadopoulos, Nader, and many others.
12/ The case for a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and Kremlin agents has been made right in front of our faces every week for 2 years. Meanwhile, the media and Trump supporters have made up a fake justice system with fake rules and are assessing Mueller by that.
13/ If you sense I'm angry at people like @KenDilanianNBC, it's because he's paid a healthy salary to misinform you on things he doesn't understand and can't explain while I'm taking time away from my career to fix the mistakes he should be ashamed of but isn't. I *resent that*.
14/ I also know that Ken being bad at his job immediately goes viral on social media when the way in which he's bad at his job fits into exactly the false narrative that Trump supporters desperately want to hear and that the media knows will get it viewers. *That* makes me angry.
15/ And when I take the time to carefully point out to folks like Ken what it is they don't understand and what it is they need to correct and instead of doing so they accuse an officer of the courtwhich is what a lawyer isof ulterior motives, that makes me *goddamned furious*.
SUMMARY/ Fix your sh*t, media. You're getting paid *more* than well enough to do your job without getting constantly corrected by experts in the areas you're attempting to cover. But the only *inexcusable offense* is not listening to those experts when they point out your errors.
atreides1
(16,065 posts)The same guy who claims that if they get rid of menthol cigarettes, people will smoke weed instead?
That Richard Burr?
onit2day
(1,201 posts)DirtEdonE
(1,220 posts)Here's a link.
https://threader.app/thread/1095355251371196416
calimary
(81,093 posts)DirtEdonE
(1,220 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,241 posts)DirtEdonE
(1,220 posts)Thanks!
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Rachel Maddow's show is an education in itself, and her viewership has escalated during the Trump/Russia investigation. If one is so inclined, you can know all the basics you need to know by turning on MSNBC and watching particular programming.
The problem isn't entirely the media. The facts are being laid out neatly and understandably each and every day. It only takes the desire to turn away from the usual suspects and start paying attention to the whistleblowers conveniently available on cable.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,241 posts)Abramson acknowledges there are good reporters out there:
NOTE5/ I don't mean to say there are no journalists doing extraordinary workthere are. But it's harder than it should to be find one who is consistently exacting in how they talk about criminal cases, and somelike Kenare downright irresponsible. Try to find the good ones.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1095355251371196416.html
Volaris
(10,266 posts)Yes, he was a primadonna.
But he was also a damned genius at distillation and the explanation of what was 'the root' of the matter.
As far as this poster is concerned, he is missed.
DallasNE
(7,402 posts)Is how few use MSM to educate themselves on what is going on. They use social media instead, which is highly unreliable. Brietbart is worse than Fox, for instance. A poll was released today showing that nearly 60% of Americans do not believe that Trump people have been caught lying about having contacts with Russian officials. What do they think Flynn, Gates and others have pled guilty to. Misinformation is winning the day.
Texin
(2,590 posts)and they all share the same last name: Trump. They know what happened and they are skating on increasingly weakening thin ice. Shitler's a regular monstrosity of the most egregious kind, even so, he knows he's in the mortal peril of his life now. That's why he's been acting even more unintelligible and incoherent than ever.
onit2day
(1,201 posts)renate
(13,776 posts)But yeah, Ill put more stock in Seths explanation.
blueinredohio
(6,797 posts)CousinIT
(9,217 posts)Perusing his timeline is futile. No idea of the date he tweeted all this.
Fuzzpope
(602 posts)For link.
lindysalsagal
(20,576 posts)and then I read wapo when I want details.
frump is uninvited from my house.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I was unaware of the larger context of the interview and assumed Burr was simply lying. It was the journalists that are lying.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)They are seeing record ratings and record advertising dollars thanks to Trump. Imagine if someone boring were to be President, CNN would have to do massive layoffs.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,102 posts)sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)mahina
(17,613 posts)They cut him short or read over clips of him speaking so his voice could not be heard. Over and over. For years.
cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)they like conflict, unpredictability, being shocked, being angry. It's typical reality TV stuff.
The reason they talked over him was because he was predictable and professional and that's boring to most people, whereas they knew people who hated him would watch so they could hate, and people who loved him would watch so they could complain about how they talked over him, lol.
The media is one of the problems, definitely NOT a solution in any way.
Firestorm49
(4,029 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,102 posts)That is an understatement and can't be shouted from the mountaintops enough.
Volaris
(10,266 posts)Profit- free newsrooms, or you HAVE to call it entertainment, under penalty of having your brodcast or cable licence pulled, and your anchor or ExecProducer doing actual prison time...no questions asked.
Rush and Fox would be off the air in less than 3 months.
Ferrets are Cool
(21,102 posts)sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Volaris
(10,266 posts)And specifically names the RNC... it's the only way the Senate GOP would care, ....otherwise, they could throw Trump under the bus to save their own asses for re-election (oh, and they sooooo would lol).
sarcasmo
(23,968 posts)Hermit-The-Prog
(33,241 posts)If I stare decisis enough won't promissory estoppel all the voir dire from happenin'?
Where's the smocking bifurcated gumshoe?!?
"Fix your sh*t, media." I would just add, fix it instead of dumping it on us.
Gothmog
(144,905 posts)certainot
(9,090 posts)trump is getting pushed around by a few lying carnival barkers on the radio, to expect republican senators to stand up is nuts.
the cons are going to set this up as the exaggerated puffed up trump base vs the commie democrats and the corrupt "deep state" and they'r egoing to get away with forcing a lot of compromise merely because the left/liberals/dems have no organized response to the core problem - 1500 coordinated radio stations following the biggest liar on the planet, and i'm not talking about trump