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Tue Feb 12, 2019, 01:49 PM

Seth Abramson on what is being reported today related to Senate intelligence investigation.



1/ Any attorney—rather than a journalist pretending to know what the legal terms they're using mean—will tell you that substantial evidence of collusion has been found and the only question is what the standard of proof is to be set at and if you think that standard has been met.



New conversation

2/ When GOP Senate Intel chair Richard Burr was asked that question, he said Americans would have to read the report the Senate eventually creates—
likely a long time from now—and will then have to decide for themselves whether it's collusion. That's what he actually said to CBS.


3/ What journalists like @KenDilanianNBC did—instead of explaining how evidence works, and what Burr's words meant—was take a quote in which Burr was saying there'd been no confession or explicit contracts found yet, even though that's *self-evident, predictable, and irrelevant*.

4/ If you or I were in Ken's shoes—and we were writing about the most important story of our times—and we were using legal terms we didn't understand, we'd make sure we explained to readers *exactly what we were saying and what we weren't*. Unfortunately, that's not media today.

5/ No attorney with criminal law experience came into the Trump-Russia probe believing one of the conspirators would confess to Congress or that an explicit contract would be found. That absurd standard was set by non-attorney Trump supporters and was then *adopted by the media*.

6/ There may be confessions in the Russia probe before it's over, but they will come *via Mueller's charges/deals*, not Congress—and no explicit contract for a conspiracy like this would ever be created, let alone found. We knew all this two years ago. The media pretended not to.

7/ What was expected was that by interviewing witnesses the Senate would find *evidence* of collusion that could be put to a criminal or political jury. And Burr confirmed *that is what happened*. But because the media had misinformed the public about evidence, it misreported it.

8/ The journalists who misreported what Burr said to CBS and what it meant and how evidence works and the fact that most American criminal trials are in fact dominated by circumstantial or indirect evidence should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. Rest assured, they are *not*.

9/ As an attorney, I'm ashamed that this has happened to us: that apparently no combination of attorneys and journalists was willing or able to explain at a time of national emergency even the most basic functioning of our justice system, though it was vitally important to do so.

10/ I can only hope that people reading this thread will share it as widely as possible so that the spread of disinformation about evidence and our criminal justice system being perpetuated by folks like @KenDilanianNBC can be mitigated slightly on this one social media platform.

11/ The percent of U.S. criminal cases in which one finds a contract agreeing to commit a crime is *virtually zero*. Confessions are *common*—and are *exactly* what Mueller has been getting, behind closed doors, from people like Flynn, Gates, Papadopoulos, Nader, and many others.


12/ The case for a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and Kremlin agents has been made right in front of our faces every week for 2 years. Meanwhile, the media and Trump supporters have made up a fake justice system with fake rules and are assessing Mueller by that.

13/ If you sense I'm angry at people like @KenDilanianNBC, it's because he's paid a healthy salary to misinform you on things he doesn't understand and can't explain while I'm taking time away from my career to fix the mistakes he should be ashamed of but isn't. I *resent that*.

14/ I also know that Ken being bad at his job immediately goes viral on social media when the way in which he's bad at his job fits into exactly the false narrative that Trump supporters desperately want to hear and that the media knows will get it viewers. *That* makes me angry.

15/ And when I take the time to carefully point out to folks like Ken what it is they don't understand and what it is they need to correct and instead of doing so they accuse an officer of the court—which is what a lawyer is—of ulterior motives, that makes me *goddamned furious*.

SUMMARY/ Fix your sh*t, media. You're getting paid *more* than well enough to do your job without getting constantly corrected by experts in the areas you're attempting to cover. But the only *inexcusable offense* is not listening to those experts when they point out your errors.

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply Seth Abramson on what is being reported today related to Senate intelligence investigation. (Original post)
triron Feb 2019 OP
atreides1 Feb 2019 #1
onit2day Feb 2019 #20
DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #2
calimary Feb 2019 #9
DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #10
Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2019 #23
DirtEdonE Feb 2019 #24
Mr. Ected Feb 2019 #3
Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2019 #25
Volaris Feb 2019 #28
DallasNE Feb 2019 #32
Texin Feb 2019 #4
onit2day Feb 2019 #21
renate Feb 2019 #5
blueinredohio Feb 2019 #6
CousinIT Feb 2019 #7
Fuzzpope Feb 2019 #14
lindysalsagal Feb 2019 #8
leftynyc Feb 2019 #11
cbdo2007 Feb 2019 #12
Ferrets are Cool Feb 2019 #16
sarcasmo Feb 2019 #18
mahina Feb 2019 #19
cbdo2007 Feb 2019 #35
uponit7771 Feb 2019 #34
Firestorm49 Feb 2019 #13
Ferrets are Cool Feb 2019 #15
Volaris Feb 2019 #29
Ferrets are Cool Feb 2019 #30
sarcasmo Feb 2019 #17
Volaris Feb 2019 #31
sarcasmo Feb 2019 #33
Hermit-The-Prog Feb 2019 #22
Gothmog Feb 2019 #26
certainot Feb 2019 #27

Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:18 PM

1. Richard Burr

The same guy who claims that if they get rid of menthol cigarettes, people will smoke weed instead?

That Richard Burr?

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #1)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 05:26 PM

20. Thank you

 

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:28 PM

2. Thank you for posting this

 

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Response to DirtEdonE (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:27 PM

9. Oh good! Thanks, DirtEdonE!

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Response to calimary (Reply #9)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:32 PM

10. You're welcome, calimary!

 

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Response to DirtEdonE (Reply #2)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 06:05 PM

23. and the CBS one Abramson references

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #23)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 06:06 PM

24. +1

 

Thanks!

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:44 PM

3. As I told my wife last night, the truth IS being reported in MSM, as long as you know where to look

Rachel Maddow's show is an education in itself, and her viewership has escalated during the Trump/Russia investigation. If one is so inclined, you can know all the basics you need to know by turning on MSNBC and watching particular programming.

The problem isn't entirely the media. The facts are being laid out neatly and understandably each and every day. It only takes the desire to turn away from the usual suspects and start paying attention to the whistleblowers conveniently available on cable.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #3)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 06:14 PM

25. "irresponsible" - NOTE 5

Abramson acknowledges there are good reporters out there:


NOTE5/ I don't mean to say there are no journalists doing extraordinary work—there are. But it's harder than it should to be find one who is consistently exacting in how they talk about criminal cases, and some—like Ken—are downright irresponsible. Try to find the good ones.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1095355251371196416.html

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Response to Hermit-The-Prog (Reply #25)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 12:01 AM

28. This is why I miss Olbermanns voice on air...

Yes, he was a primadonna.

But he was also a damned genius at distillation and the explanation of what was 'the root' of the matter.

As far as this poster is concerned, he is missed.

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Response to Mr. Ected (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 01:19 AM

32. Another Problem

Is how few use MSM to educate themselves on what is going on. They use social media instead, which is highly unreliable. Brietbart is worse than Fox, for instance. A poll was released today showing that nearly 60% of Americans do not believe that Trump people have been caught lying about having contacts with Russian officials. What do they think Flynn, Gates and others have pled guilty to. Misinformation is winning the day.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:45 PM

4. Well I'm thinkin' there are a couple of folks out there who think they've found collusion,

and they all share the same last name: Trump. They know what happened and they are skating on increasingly weakening thin ice. Shitler's a regular monstrosity of the most egregious kind, even so, he knows he's in the mortal peril of his life now. That's why he's been acting even more unintelligible and incoherent than ever.

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Response to Texin (Reply #4)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 05:34 PM

21. Innocent people want to prove they are not try to shut down investigations

 

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:07 PM

5. Ken Dilanian seems like a nice guy, honestly

But yeah, I’ll put more stock in Seth’s explanation.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:13 PM

6. I don't care what Burr says, I want to know what Warner says.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:16 PM

7. Since you've provided no link, I can't find the tweet(s) to retweet them.



Perusing his timeline is futile. No idea of the date he tweeted all this.

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Response to CousinIT (Reply #7)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:55 PM

14. See comment #2

 

For link.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:20 PM

8. The networks are filling time with salacious BS. I'm putting it all on ignore. DU brings me the news

and then I read wapo when I want details.

frump is uninvited from my house.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:33 PM

11. Thanks for posting this

 

I was unaware of the larger context of the interview and assumed Burr was simply lying. It was the journalists that are lying.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:41 PM

12. The media dreads the day Trump leaves office...he is a gold mine for them.

They are seeing record ratings and record advertising dollars thanks to Trump. Imagine if someone boring were to be President, CNN would have to do massive layoffs.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:59 PM

16. THAT, is everything in a nutshell. nt

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 05:04 PM

18. Zucker admitted CNN made millions off Trump.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #12)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 05:04 PM

19. I think people would have loved watching President Obama.

They cut him short or read over clips of him speaking so his voice could not be heard. Over and over. For years.

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Response to mahina (Reply #19)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 10:22 AM

35. People don't watch something predictable that they love over and over again...

they like conflict, unpredictability, being shocked, being angry. It's typical reality TV stuff.

The reason they talked over him was because he was predictable and professional and that's boring to most people, whereas they knew people who hated him would watch so they could hate, and people who loved him would watch so they could complain about how they talked over him, lol.

The media is one of the problems, definitely NOT a solution in any way.

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Response to cbdo2007 (Reply #12)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 07:57 AM

34. +1

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:52 PM

13. Thank you.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:59 PM

15. Fix your sh*t, media!!!

That is an understatement and can't be shouted from the mountaintops enough.

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Response to Ferrets are Cool (Reply #15)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 12:07 AM

29. They will not until we make them.

Profit- free newsrooms, or you HAVE to call it entertainment, under penalty of having your brodcast or cable licence pulled, and your anchor or ExecProducer doing actual prison time...no questions asked.

Rush and Fox would be off the air in less than 3 months.

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Response to Volaris (Reply #29)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 12:09 AM

30. I know. I do what I can, but that doesn't have much effect. nt

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 05:03 PM

17. Mr. Mueller is dropping something soon, the Senate GOP are scared, that's why this nonsense is out.

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Response to sarcasmo (Reply #17)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 12:10 AM

31. Your post makes me think that a RICO indictment is in the works,

And specifically names the RNC... it's the only way the Senate GOP would care, ....otherwise, they could throw Trump under the bus to save their own asses for re-election (oh, and they sooooo would lol).

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Response to Volaris (Reply #31)

Wed Feb 13, 2019, 02:08 AM

33. Yep, IMHO it's always been a RICO case and those take time.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 05:59 PM

22. but but but

If I stare decisis enough won't promissory estoppel all the voir dire from happenin'?

Where's the smocking bifurcated gumshoe?!?


"Fix your sh*t, media." I would just add, fix it instead of dumping it on us.

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 06:35 PM

26. From Prof. Tribe

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Response to triron (Original post)

Tue Feb 12, 2019, 11:53 PM

27. americans are dumb to expect anything from republican senators on this

trump is getting pushed around by a few lying carnival barkers on the radio, to expect republican senators to stand up is nuts.

the cons are going to set this up as the exaggerated puffed up trump base vs the commie democrats and the corrupt "deep state" and they'r egoing to get away with forcing a lot of compromise merely because the left/liberals/dems have no organized response to the core problem - 1500 coordinated radio stations following the biggest liar on the planet, and i'm not talking about trump

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