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DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:42 PM Feb 2019

yes another thread about the Virginia governor

first off: I understand many of the reasons why people have posted defensive comments about the governor.
One: this is an obvious "rat" operation, just as Al Franken was also a successful operation.
Two: despite doing something that was very very stupid, the governor has apparently enjoyed the success of black voters.
Three: if the GOP gets back Virginia, it will send a message to the folks in Dixie that even when Democrats gain, they lose.
Four: what he did was really not all that bad, and was very common back then.
Five: if we do not maintain our composure whenever we go for social justice, we will do nothing but eat our own, and scare off those coveted "white working-class voters."

And this is where I will take apart all of these points.
One: yes it is a rat operation, and I am sure that the Republicans, as well as Putin himself, are ready to go ahead and find any sort of dirt, real or otherwise, because after all it's not like the truth really matters to people. However, if we're going to drop our standards just because we are afraid of what the other people will do, then we are in effect allowing ourselves to be controlled by the enemy. Voters, especially those that we claim to be coveting will see that as submission. The fence striding "moderate" will tell themselves "see I told you all the social justice was nonsense!"

Two: yes, the governor of Virginia has done some things that were good for the black voters who after all, put him in office. Now, considering the fact that the Democrats depend heavily on African American voters, should anyone, regardless of whether they have something unsavory in the past, or whether they are saints straight from seventh heaven somehow not trying to improve the lot of African-American voters? Let me be blunt: if I go to a Burger King and the person does not make a taco instead of a whopper I wanted, is that something to praise? Let me be real blunt: it was not for African-American voters who are dealing with threats as well as red tape, Nancy Pelosi would not be speaker of the house. And it is not for the fact that African-American voters will indeed have to deal with all those old threats and whatever new ones that Trump and his buddy Vladimir can come up with, we will not win, any more than we would not win without women. Talk realpolitik all you want, you know this is a fact, and the statistics will prove it.

Three: I myself am a Democrat in Florida. I know very well that damn hard to be a Democrat deep red Dixie where there is not even the pretense anymore of fairness, or outright cheating is celebrated on talk radio and in the newspapers. It is no accident that the same state that we're focusing on now is the same state that brought us to Charlottesville riots. As much as we would like to think we have made progress, there are still some people who they got their way would go straight back to antebellum days. Yes I do mean antebellum days, because you hear stuff like "we treated our slaves well." What I'm saying here is this: if you try to coddle, beg, plead the white sheet faction, and those who were good friends with people of the white sheet faction, will not hear you. All you are doing is confirming weakness. Yes, we do need the 50 state strategy back in gear, and yes we do need to leave the door open wide enough for the people who are finally mad at Trump, if no other reason than they finally got screwed. But if we show fear, that will do absolutely nothing but sure that this gets repeated again, and again., And again

Four: okay, the idea that some people come on here and say "we had this when we were growing up and it wasn't that bad, and it wasn't that uncommon." Are the good old days when Blacks can be hung from trees supposedly some acceptable standard? Many of the Germans in World War II were indeed the European equivalent of good old boys, good, simple folk who simply allowed themselves to follow the current for bunch of reasons that I'm sure they thought were good, even though their conscience was screaming at the top of her lungs "you know this is wrong!" I am not saying that people who say what he did was not all that bad are bigots, but I am saying that many are willing to give the bigots some slack, which is dangerous because, as Charlottesville showed, if you give those bigots some slack, they will take a mile of rope. If you are looking at things and thinking they weren't so bad back then, first off, most older African-Americans can wipe that allusion from your eye, second we are the ones were supposed to know better.

Five: this point was previously covered, but it bears repeating: the frustrated white working-class, that was raised to take comfort from the fact that no matter how low they were, they could always say the N-word is not going to listen to your pleas. It is one thing to sacrifice a person, a person that frankly had time and resources to clean up their mess before summer rat found it. But if we sacrifice our ideals, our morals, we have something much more to fear than any "purity police", what we are doing is telling the enemy that we will bend to their well, and that they will set the agenda, and before you know it, this Faustian deal that was made of will come due, and we will wonder where the hell our integrity went as we're dragged off to hell!

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yes another thread about the Virginia governor (Original Post) DonCoquixote Feb 2019 OP
I respect your opinion. Respect ours wasupaloopa Feb 2019 #1
My opinion as well pandr32 Feb 2019 #3
fair enough, however DonCoquixote Feb 2019 #8
Do we, as Democrats, expect perfection? guillaumeb Feb 2019 #2
Robert Byrd was elected in 1959 before the Voting Rights Act was passed Empowerer Feb 2019 #4
We can speculate on what these voters would have done, guillaumeb Feb 2019 #5
It's not a real big stretch of the imagination to "speculate" that if black citizens had full voting EffieBlack Feb 2019 #6
Dealing with such past behavior shouldn't be difficult loyalsister Feb 2019 #7
 

wasupaloopa

(4,516 posts)
1. I respect your opinion. Respect ours
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:48 PM
Feb 2019

When we said we did it and it wasn’t so bad means we were not aware of the feelings or effects on others.

It was not done with the intention of hurting someone.

Judging the past on today’s standards is not fair in my mind.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
8. fair enough, however
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 07:25 PM
Feb 2019

It is one thing to say do not judge the past bu today;s standards,
but it is another to ignore the fact that there are many in Dixie who want the past to become the future. Charlottesville mroe than proved that.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
2. Do we, as Democrats, expect perfection?
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 02:50 PM
Feb 2019

Should we. as Democrats, expect perfection?

What Northam did as a medical student was disgusting, and highly racially charged. And his statement equating chattel slavery with being a temporarily indentured servant reveals, at best, his ignorance of the terms and the history behind them.


But are we to judge him, or anyone, on a few isolated incidents, or can we also consider the entire body of his work as a politician?

Robert Byrd was given the opportunity to " redeem himself", so to speak, and he rewarded the voters for it.


I do not write this to excuse anything that Northam said or did, but to ask what is the logical conclusion to this line of reasoning?

PS
Well written.

Empowerer

(3,900 posts)
4. Robert Byrd was elected in 1959 before the Voting Rights Act was passed
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:09 PM
Feb 2019

He was "given the opportunity to 'redeem himself'" by a virtually all white electorate in West Virginia in the pre-Civil Rights/Voting Rights South.

By the time black voters had any voting strength in West Virginia, Byrd had been a Senator for awhile and had started to make amends. But if blacks had any say in it when he first ran for office, I'm pretty sure they would have told Byrd to go redeem himself doing something other than being their U.S. Senator and, if he then still wanted to run for office, come back and talk to him after he thought he'd earned their support, whereupon they'd check his work and let him know how he did.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
5. We can speculate on what these voters would have done,
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 03:19 PM
Feb 2019

and what they might have thought, but even after the passage of the VRA, change has come very slowly, and some still resist that change.

 

EffieBlack

(14,249 posts)
6. It's not a real big stretch of the imagination to "speculate" that if black citizens had full voting
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 04:01 PM
Feb 2019

rights in W. Virginia in the 1950s, a former Klansman would not have been elected to the Senate in 1958.

But either way, the "Robert Byrd redeemed himself" argument is misplaced here since, as you noted, that was a very different time.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
7. Dealing with such past behavior shouldn't be difficult
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 04:35 PM
Feb 2019

And it shouldn't be motivated by guilt.
I would like to see him demonstrate some learning and commit to do better.
The good white samaritan defense is tiresome.
Not all slave owners were cruel.
Not all imported Africans were treated brutally
AND
Not all excuses that serve to maintain white supremacy are intended to devalue humans.

No. ALL demands and expectations that people of color should let these things slide based on the exceptions reinforces white supremacy.

I would take him seriously if he would stop pretending he's not part of the system that places such a high value on whiteness that he can dare to fumble his explanations of apparent bigotry and still take forgiveness for granted, even from people who continue to be hurt by it.

He could make a commitment to use his power to do serious work to dismantle the system that gave him a pass when he showed bigotry and continues to benefit him and the rest of us white people. AND actually do that work.

GOP rat operation or not, all white people will reap benefits if his justifications and clumsy explanations are accepted alongside his defensive posturing because it will be another win for white supremacy.

I don't think resignation is the only alternative for addressing the situation. I'd like to see him use the power to demonstrate a philosophy that rejects white supremacy through concrete policies. It's possible but I haven't seen evidence that it is likely.

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