Cutting off our nose to spite our face: Amazon's pullout will be bad for the very workers....

[George II]

Cutting off our nose to spite our face: Amazon's pullout will be bad for the very workers that opponents of the deal claim to care about

By HECTOR FIGUEROA

(Figueroa is president of 32BJ Service Employees International Union.)

When Amazon announced its plans to build half of its second headquarters in New York City, it was a proof of our city’s ability to shape the future of work and a potentially transformative move that could further diversify and strengthen our growing economy. After all, Amazon was coming to the most progressive, union-friendly city and high-tax state in the country. New York was showing the world that strong unions, smart regulation and progressive taxation are not an impediment to growth — in fact it’s what helps to drive equitable growth at a time of massive economic inequality.

And yet, despite strong public support for the project, including from communities of color that would have benefited from the thousands of good union jobs spurred by the development, opposition from a few progressive organizations — many of which I have historically considered allies — created enough controversy to make Amazon abandon the project.

Opponents were quick to declare victory. Let’s examine what, exactly, they have achieved.

One critique of the Amazon deal was that the tax incentives were overly generous. Of course they were! We should have a conversation about how to ban this kind of incentives at the federal level so states and cities can resist the impulse to poach jobs and investment from their neighbors. The European Union already does it, why can’t we do it in America?

It’s astonishing that progressive organizers and federal elected officials complaining about overly generous tax breaks have barely lifted a finger to solve this problem the only way it can actually be solved. When my progressive friends are ready to have that fight, count me in.

But let’s look at the reality we have to face in the current scenario and compare the incentives offered by many other states and more importantly in relation to the taxes Amazon was actually on the hook to pay to New York.

Maryland was offering a $8.5 billion incentive package! In New York, the vast majority of the $3 billion in total subsidies was “performance-based” — meaning Amazon would get back from the city and the state a portion of the tax revenue it generated. Some of my progressive friends liked to carp about the city and state “giving” billions to Amazon instead of spending those funds on affordable housing or fixing the MTA. That was just a blatant mischaracterization.

Much more:

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-cutting-off-our-nose-to-spite-our-face-20190215-story.html

[PubliusEnigma]

1. But, the Idealism!! You're overlooking the sweet, delicious Idealism.

[manor321]

2. This is bullshit. There's no need for this massive corporate welfare, especially from NYC

still amazed at the lack of self-awareness from the ayn rand humping business press types and the gliberatarians throughout the country who are very mad that the economic dystopia of NYC isn't handing all the money to the richest guy in the world for economic development

Link to tweet

i forget which one it was talking about how it would help the people in the nearby housing projects, likely being the first time he expressed any concern for people in housing projects

how about we just give that $500 million construction grant to the people living there. probably would help them a bit more

[Wellstone ruled]

40. Has anyone askes this question,

where in the hell are you going to find 40k techie type people to work for Amazon,and btw,Google is opening a massive Ops Center in the same general region requiring 15k Techies.

Amazon 25k and Google 15k=40k. Oh btw,cost of living is what? If you look at the PR behind this,you just knew it was a no go from the get go.

Seen the same tactics used her in the Las Vegas area. Cost the Tax Payers of North Las Vegas millions so far when the Chinese Faraday Motors ran a bullshit scam and then bailed with the City and County holding the bag .

Oh,that a look at what is happening in Pleasant Grove Wisconsin if you need further proof how ugly these deals work.

Many years ago Phoenix was burned by Intel is the same manner. Tons of Taxpayer money to build a million square foot clear span building for Chip Production,guess what,building completed and Intel says,we are not coming,we all ready have more capacity in China that we can use.

[Blue_true]

94. So, in an advanced city of 8 million people, you can't find 40,000 trained techies.

I am floored, just floored. More than likely, the jobs will be oversubscribed.

[enid602]

52. decision

I would wonder how invested Bezos was in this NYC location, given his decision not to build a week after announcing that it would be built.

[Power 2 the People]

82. Exactly manor. Let New Yorkers make their own decisions about how they want their tax money spent.

It's a matter of time before Democrats take over the White House and Amazon's monopoly will eventually be broken up. It's also a matter of time before Trump's incompetence and the Republican tax cuts lead to another economic crash. The first thing Amazon will do is close down operations in high-cost areas like NYC and move everything to low cost,anti-union red states.

I seriously doubt the NYC campus would have even been built and operational before these things come to pass.

[TexasBushwhacker]

3. "thousands of good union jobs spurred by the development"

But the union jobs would not be AT Amazon, which fights unionization tooth and nail.

[brush]

41. Once Amazon's campus was built and up and running in NYC...

you can take it to the bank that there would be unionization drives. After they spent the billions on the campus, what were they going to do, shut down when unionization was put on the table in a strong union town?

No, they would've negotiated with the union.

[lame54]

57. It happens...

A city pays a company huge $$$ to open a factory that stimulates the local economy but pulls the plug when a better deal comes along leaving a crater of despair.

Hey. It's just business.

[brush]

67. Maybe, harder to do though after spending billions on a new campus.

[lame54]

74. not if it's not your billions

[brush]

77. NY was giving Amazon tax abatemets, not paying for its campus.

[lame54]

78. it's a shell game...

in the end the billionaire gets the pea

[brush]

79. WTF does that mean? You actually think Amazon was not going to spend...

billions on an entirely new campus? It was not proposing moving into existing facilities.

[lame54]

81. again who's billions?...

payed up front or in the back
it don't matter
it ends up in Bezo's pocket
NY would have paid for the campus

[brush]

83. Word games. It was coming out of Amazon's pocket, not New York's.

Tax abatements of 3B over several years versus yearly salaries of
twenty-five thousand workers, and then the jobs and wages of the workers at the businesses that would sprout up around the new campus—you have to weigh all those things pragmatically since people still need to work for someone for a living since the means of production is not yet owned by them.

We still live in a capitalist society with repugs constantly trying to rescind restrictions on cutthroat, naked capitalism. Let's get real, you've got to learn to work to get advantages for working people in deals with capitalists. Weigh the wages and jobs that will materialize versus the tax abatement. The wages far out weighed what Amazon was getting. Hell, Virginia, who will now get the plant, offered 8.5 billion because of the ultimate benefit the deal brings to their state.

There's more to it than mouthing naive, socialist slogans.

[LuvLoogie]

4. Sorry, but I am not buying the scapegoating of AOC

and community groups. I think Bezos didn't want to have to comply with OSHA and a union for an extended time.

It was a numbers thing, not that his fee fees were hurt by AOC. That's just a cover.

It's Bezos.

[guillaumeb]

7. Agreed.

This type of article is apologetics for greedy capitalists.

[uponit7771]

31. +1, MAGA Cultist eat their own ... Red Don hating Bezo doesn't mean Bezo is for the working person

[KG]

65. word.

[TheFarseer]

69. I've never been clear on what she did

I know she didn’t want Amazon in NY but is that it? Just her talking negative about them and Amazon backs out?

[Mariana]

106. Well, she mentioned it, you see.

The expressed her opinion on the matter. Some people like to pretend that means a) she alone is responsible for Amazon choosing not to build this project and b) she is claiming sole credit for Amazon's decision. Of course, neither of those things is true, but who cares about facts when there's an opportunity to bash AOC?

[PoliticAverse]

5. "the tax incentives were overly generous. Of course they were!" - opponent argument conceeded. n/t

[guillaumeb]

6. Tax incentives should be called extortion.

And yes, the laws should be changed to prevent tax incentives except ,perhaps, for small businesses in blighted areas.

Hugely profitable corporations like Amazon and WalMart have no need for these breaks.

[MichMan]

10. Granting them is bribery

[guillaumeb]

11. Agreed.

Political language has become so corrupted.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

19. The only national politician I've seen addressing that problem is, wait for it, Bernie Sanders

He has talked federal legislation to withhold highway funds for states that offer incentives to steal jobs from other states. The idea being, if they can afford to give away all the ridiculous incentives they don’t need federal money.

These legal bribery schemes are just another version of race to the bottom.

And people saying this isn’t really the state’s money are full of shit. Amazon is getting kick backs on state sales tax from business they take from other “full fare” businesses.

[guillaumeb]

24. Agreed.

And yes, Bernie Sanders has addressed the issue. It is unfairly incentivizing a billionaire who has no need for these tax giveaways.

[UniteFightBack]

8. The real problem I have is that Amazon pulled out without reaching out to anybody. Just

pulled the plug without even a phone call. What kind of bullshit is that?

[jberryhill]

37. And not really in response to anything in particular

Some people voiced opposition.

So what?

That’s normal.

[suffragette]

72. That's consistent with their actions in Seattle. This whole second HQ move has been their response

to City Council and people here asking them to be more responsible here.

[Me.]

9. Funny How Google Is Not Being Mentioned

and their billion dollar + recent investment in NYC without needing a dime of taxpayer money. Also, what some experts tell us...many of the so-called jobs will be ones that outsiders get nor do they look at what has happened in other big cities with an influx of tech, where rents and costs go up to the point that the people who live there cannot afford them and get pushed out.

[guillaumeb]

15. So Google did NOT ask for a bribe.

Interesting.

[Me.]

21. Correct

And most people don't even know that they are doing this.

“Alphabet's Google is investing more than $1 billion on a new campus in New York, becoming the second major technology company after Amazon to pick America's financial capital to expand and create thousands of jobs.

The 1.7 million-square-foot campus, called Google Hudson Square, will include leased properties at Hudson Street and Washington Street, the company said in a blog post Monday. The new campus will be the main location for Google's advertising sales division, the Global Business Organization.

Google hopes to start moving into two Hudson Street buildings by 2020, followed by a Washington Street in 2022 and will have the capacity to more than double its New York headcount, currently more than 7,000."

https://www.voanews.com/a/google-to-spend-one-billion-dollars-on-new-campus-in-new-york/4704612.html

[guillaumeb]

26. Google has also announced plans to expand in Chicago.

Amazon was offered bribes to come to Chicago.

[Me.]

42. Maybe Everyone Should Wise Up

This all makes me think of how taxpayers pay for stadiums and owners reap the profits

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

76. Giving a group a tax break and using tax dollars to build a stadium are two different things

You may not like either but they're not the same.

[Me.]

80. The Similiarity Is In that The Only Ones Who Make Out Are The Owners

Those who foot the bill foot the bill but don't get to eat the meal

[guillaumeb]

89. Exactly.

Socialized risk and privatized profits.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

12. Fuck Amazon and their anti-union positions.

That that isn't the unanimous stance of DU is baffling.

[Glamrock]

17. +1

[leftstreet]

23. +1

[lilactime]

30. +1

[ellie]

36. I know, right?

[brush]

44. Once they got to NY you can bet there would be unionization drives.

What were they going to do, shut down their spanking new, billion dollar campus once union organizers in a strong union town started their work?

No, they would eventually have to negotiate.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

61. So nobody has tried yet?

Amazon is great at shutting all that shit down. Especially when there are Dems on Dem sites saying that it was bad that they weren't allowed to go in there because, you know, shitty non-union jobs.

[brush]

63. NYC is a big union town. I know personally from a successful union drive ther.

Amazon would have a battle on their hands with unions, that might be one reason they pulled out.

[Ferrets are Cool]

49. Thank you. nt

[Kurt V.]

51. +1 Amazing, isn't it.

[Arazi]

58. Psst, this is really AOC bashing in disguise

[melman]

59. Yes it is

But it's not disguised very well.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

62. Well, yeah, but I wouldn't think they'd go all anti-union to do it.

I guess nothing should shock me anymore.

[Mariana]

107. Now you know better. nt.

[KG]

66. word.

[workinclasszero]

64. Yes!

[SMC22307]

90. Yep. But not all that baffling for a good many years, sadly.

As long as I can get $50 hiking boots in two days, who cares that an entire class of citizens can no longer afford to live in many American cities. All hail the mighty Bezos!

[kentuck]

13. Amazon is afraid of unions and paying more in taxes.

They do want to get into that environment, which is what they were fearful of with NYC.

[WeekiWater]

14. I think the difficulty lies in the optics, not reality.

Image(optics) becomes reality. We currently have a group of people fighting for the economy they want, not the one they have. They are often fighting image and individuals. That doesn't chance legal economic positions of tomorrow, which can hurt people today.

It is a good battle but it must be waged in congress, not in the streets. No battle was won or lost here for Amazon.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. Disappointing but not necessarily surprising to see this SEIU affiliate taking the Building Trades

approach. I fully understand the mission of securing jobs for members and expanding market share. But with a project this size, unions must take a broader view.

Companies like Amazon always resist unionization of their own employees. Breaking that resistance typically requires sustained organizing of workers combined with political pressure and other tactics that eventually cause the employer to recognize a union. 32BJ has been engaged in just such an effort to organize airport workers up and down the East Coast. Roughly 15,000 employees who work for companies that contract with major airlines for jobs like aircraft cleaner and baggage handlers and security.

Do you think the airlines welcomed this campaign? Absolutely not. We fought hard. For years. And we won.

And this Fortune Global 20 company agreed to staff with union security workers just like that? But how interesting.

[Johnny2X2X]

18. Building / moving a HQ doesn't create jobs

The jobs are created by increased revenues from consumer spending. That’s the only jobs creator. Building and office, a factory, or a tech center doesn’t create jobs, it’s simomy a response to jobs that were already created.

[MichMan]

33. I thought building things created jobs?

I have several friends who make a good living as union construction workers.

[Johnny2X2X]

50. Nope

That’s not where the job of building comes from. They come from consumers buying things so Amazon has the money to build things. Without people spending their money on Amazon the building is not built. Amazon isn’t building anything if they don’t need to serve their customers.

The jobs are created by regular people having money to spend.

[MichMan]

54. Building infrastructure doesn't create jobs?

Last edited Sat Feb 16, 2019, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

I thought things like roads, bridges, high speed rail, subways, alternative energy created jobs for the people building them.

Guess I was misinformed

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

75. Yes it does

[flotsam]

20. In New York, the vast majority of the $3 billion in total subsidies was "performance-based"

meaning Amazon would get back from the city and the state a portion of the tax revenue it generated.

Read that carefully-the state and Amazon will divvy up the money which you are told you pay for state operations just like the waitresses tip sharing with the busboys and dishwashers...

[George II]

22. Precisely, thanks! If they didn't meet the established performance goals they didn't get anything.

[guillaumeb]

28. The point of most of the replies is that Amazon demanded bribes.

Bezos accepts, and demands, corporate welfare.

[flotsam]

43. Yep

That was EXACTLY my point. Paying taxes is bad enough without them twisting the knife fee-splitting with a billionaire.

[superpatriotman]

25. Let's be honest

They are no better or worse than they were before Amazon.

[msongs]

27. amazon will do to NYC what the CEO did to his wife nt

[guillaumeb]

29. And take pictures of it as well?

[George II]

39. Amazon will do nothing to NYC. They're not building their HQ there.

[guillaumeb]

32. The Amazon model od corporate welfare:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211826779

[comradebillyboy]

34. I think the Amazon fiasco is a huge black eye for Democrats.

The Amazon opponents can easily be portrayed as anti business and as chasing good jobs away. The glory days of the labor movement aren't coming back regardless of what Amazon does. Are the Amazon opponents suggesting that they will only support businesses that are unionized?

Running off jobs will only help Republicans.

[George II]

38. The average salary for the 25,000 jobs that would have been created is $150,000....

That's an annual payroll of $3.75B, higher than the total $3B "cost" spread out over 25 years!!!!

Assuming an 8% NYS income tax rate and 4% NYC income tax rate, that would have been $450,000,000 in tax revenue PER YEAR! Not to mention all the other financial benefits - Amazon WILL be paying state and local taxes and those 25,000 people will be eating lunch each day, traveling to and from work, buying clothing and other personal items, etc.

[brush]

48. Spot on. And union organizers would eventually work and unionize...

that campus. NY is a strong union town. IMO it was short sighted to run those jobs out of town. Bezos might've thought he was getting over but he doesn't know New York like New Yorkers do. We should've lured his ass in then went to work.

He would've eventually had to negotiate with unions. What was he gonna do, shut down his new plant?

[Me.]

55. That's Assumming Locals Would've Been Given Those Jobs

Experience elsewhere says outsiders would come in for them.

[Blue_true]

95. New York City has 7-8 million people.

That can easily produce the type of workers Amazon needed. Plus IBM has a big campus a little up state that is loaded with techies.

[Me.]

101. That's Always The Story Until It Isn't

Additionally, Amazon had until 2028 to produce the jobs which would essentially cost NY taxpayers $48K each.

[SMC22307]

102. According to the prez of the Queensbridge tenants association...

Many businesses — including travel and financial companies and hotel chains — have opened in recent years in the area, but Ms. Simpson said they have not hired local residents.

“They did not hire here — they brought in their own people,” she said. “My thing is: If you build here, hire here.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/12/nyregion/amazon-queens-queensbridge-houses.html

But sure, Bezos is gonna save the day with his $150K jobs and frenzied real-estate developers with their $1M condos.

[stonecutter357]

35. K&R

[MineralMan]

45. When Amazon was looking around for a place to expand its headquarters

operations, the Twin Cities in MN were among those that thought about trying to entice the company to choose the MSP area. However, instead of offering big tax breaks, the Twin Cities just said, "Well, we have the people you need, room for your project, and will be happy to assist you in moving here in other ways, but no tax breaks.

Amazon passed. But, that was what our leaders here decided to do. It would have been a good addition to the area, but not worth the cost, apparently. So, no Amazon headquarters in the MSP metro area...maybe. Or maybe that might still happen, due to other benefits of locating here. I don't know, and we don't really care, one way or another.

[moondust]

46. Gentrification?

Some locals *may* have gotten a good job out of it, but I would guess that most wouldn't and therefore wouldn't be able to handle the rising cost of living associated with Amazon moving into their neighborhood.

[SMC22307]

98. Wonder how many Queensbridge residents would have scored those $150K/yr jobs?

[moondust]

99. Residents of...

The Nation’s Largest Housing Project? Maybe none?

So...just tear it down and/or turn it into high-priced condos. Wave bye-bye everybody!

In November, The Wall Street Journal reported that brokers embarked on a “condo gold rush” in anticipation of the Queens campus construction. “This is like a gift from the gods for the Long Island City condo market,” one realtor told the Journal.

http://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/02/amazon-cancels-new-yorks-hq2and-thats-a-good-thing/582844/

[SMC22307]

100. Ooh boy, more $1M condos! And a median household income of under $16K!

NYC was spared but my area will still bear the brunt. Traffic in Crystal City and Route 1 and on the Metro? It's horrible now. (I'm truly thankful I can work at home with occasional days in the office for meetings.) Housing costs are insane and it'll only get worse.

[Ferrets are Cool]

47. Bullshit post

I hate corporate welfare programs. One of the richest companies in the world doesn't need to extort tax payers to put a company in their city. They do it because they can.

[LisaM]

53. Come to Seattle if you want to see the Amazon blight.

They have absolutely ruined this city.

[SMC22307]

91. One of the many issues I have with Amazon.

I like looking at real estate around the country -- Seattle and NYC are eye-popping. Hell, even my area.

[Blue_true]

96. Lots of people like in cities with rich cultural attractions, great restaurants, lively nightlife.

Great schools. If that was not the case, every red state would be booming.

[SMC22307]

97. Gentrification is out of control.

Working classes being pushed out. Generations loyal to the less "desirable" areas of a city like DC being pushed out. Greedy developers (like the Drumpfs and Kushners) driving up prices to exorbitant levels. It's not right.

[BeyondGeography]

56. The whole thing seems like Amazon as metaphor

for what the city has become. And that’s an increasingly stratified place. The old New York of stable, reasonably affordable neighborhoods has been fading away since the mid-90s and now here comes big, bad Amazon, looking for tax goodies and seemingly indifferent to the pain of the locals. The polling for Amazon may have been generally favorable but the intensity was on the side of the antis. What we had here was two very mismatched groups who were talking past each other.

I wish they had been able to work it out quite frankly. The economic case for this deal was pretty strong IMHO. The incentives that everyone was so upset about were contingent on specific investment and employment targets being met, and the $3 billion was not excessive compared with many other offers, including Newark across the river (they offered $7 billion). Cuomo and Di Blasio didn’t do a bad deal but they did the deal badly as it turned out. It was presented as a fait accompli to people who have been itching for this kind of fight for a long time. The end result is not good for NY Democrats, who are now each other’s throats. I don’t see any winners.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

60. Remind me again of all of the federal and state taxes Amazon has paid lately?

I have long been disgusted by the way states and municipalities vie with each other to offer "incentives" for businesses to locate there. Or give them millions of dollars to build a sports stadium.

[TheFarseer]

68. Totally agree

This the same argument as “I think nuclear weapons are bad but I’m not about to unilaterally disarm.” I agree 1000% with the 4th paragraph.

[radius777]

70. Agree, NY would've benefited greatly.

Comparing NY and Seattle is stupid, since WA (iirc) has no state income taxes, until recently it was a conservative state - whereas NY has long been a beacon for liberalism and diversity, with controls in place to ensure the middle classes benefit.

Left-wing populism of the type pushed by Bernie, AOC and Warren is doomed to failure in metro areas (where most Dem votes come from) which are centers of international capitalism, where most people and industries directly or indirectly rely upon.

The Clinton/Obama coalition was so strong (won 6 of 7 popular presidential votes) for so long because of the fact that the Dem party, after the civil rights era, fundamentally realigned from being a rural populist party to more of a center-left metropolitan party.

[GulfCoast66]

71. So now NYC gets nothing.

They would have had greatly increased tax renenues even with the incentives, tens of thousands of high paying jobs with the associated income tax, a company in need of unionization in a strong union state. Not to mention the thousands of already high paying union jobs that would have built the infrastructure.

Now they get nothing. That’s a strange definition of winning.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

73. "giving" billions to Amazon instead of spending those funds on affordable housing or fixing the MTA.

That's not money you currently have. But Amazon would have paid additional tax money minus the $3 billion.


For a breakdown of the deal:

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/11/16/18098589/amazon-hq2-nyc-queens-long-island-city-explained

[SMC22307]

93. Ugh... "opportunity zones."

Those living in the projects will get shafted per usual and the capital gains crowd will make out like bandits.

[OilemFirchen]

84. Fine by me.

Maybe megacorps will begin to rethink their reflexive tendency to locate in the half-dozen heavily-populated urban areas of choice and consider other options, like the rust belt. We'll incentivize the fuck out of 'em, even if we just break even, for the benefit of the massive cottage industries they'll create. Their employees, excluding the huge pool of innovators already in the region, will enjoy a staggering cost-of-living decrease, easy access to everything and incredibly affordable housing.

After all, the Midwest wouldn't be an urban wasteland if these giant corporations hadn't skedaddled for "greener" pastures decades ago. Prolly time to come back, eh?

[Adrahil]

85. I'm not in favor of tax anatements,but

.... cheering the loss of 25,000 high paying jobs is not a good look.

Mark my words. This will KILL us next year if we don’t get control of the narrative.

[Squinch]

86. Don't worry about us, George. We'll be fine.

And just a reminder: no one actually DID anything to make Amazon change their minds. People voiced the opinion (which I share) that Amazon was not a good fit for the area. Amazon, on that basis, decided not to come.

I'm happy they decided not to come, but all the handwringing and finger pointing about it seems to be saying that we should not have voiced displeasure about the plan or dislike for Amazon. That's nuts.

You know I will always love you, but I have some deep roots in LIC. I'm glad about how this turned out. We disagree on this one.

[George II]

87. I have roots in Queens, too...

After living in Brooklyn for 8 years (born in Bedford Stuyvesant) we moved to Flushing where I remained through college. I took the 7 train into Manhattan to High School and College for 8 years. My last two years of College I worked part time driving a cab out of a garage on 23rd Street, under the 59th Street Bridge. I know the area well.

Every development and every deal has its drawbacks, but overall this would have been a shot in the arm to the area. Right now it's a series of run down small warehouses and abandoned buildings.

Yes, we disagree with each other but don't dislike each other!!

[Squinch]

88. My roots are in the form of a family business located in LIC for 2 generations. People do tend

to see it as abandoned warehouses, but it really isn't that. It's been booming for some time, and there really are long entrenched neighborhoods.

I don't know anyone who lives in Seattle since before Amazon moved in who doesn't wish they never came.

[liberalhistorian]

92. No, it won't be "bad" for those

workers. Housing is already expensive enough in that area, it would have become damn near impossible financially once the headquarters was up and running. The busting of any unionization attempts and the punishment of unionizing workers would have been rampant, at the same time as working conditions that could have been addressed by unions would suck, with little recourse.

And those very workers, along with everyone else in the area, would have had to pay for exorbitant public subsidies for a multi-billion-dollar company that does NOT, in any way, need such financial assistance. It would have drained badly-needed money from many other services that are far more important than helping a gazillionaire company and its mega-gazillionaire owner save even more money.

And while we're at it, why are those workers, and you and I and all other worker drones, paying far more in taxes than Amazon itself? Amazon paid a whopping zero in taxes on eleven billion in profits. That's ZERO dollars in taxes on eleven BILLION in profits. That is utter BULLSHIT.

[Hoyt]

103. Bet the other 199 localities that courted Amazon are burning up the cell towers resurrecting

their offers and then some.

[no_hypocrisy]

104. Still begging the question:

Why did Amazon pull out after mere rhetorical protesting?

Amazon was still on track to get the tax rebates, etc. No politician or government body retracted its offer to it.

The skittishness or the immediate retreat by Amazon has to be examined and a response given.

[frazzled]

105. I think it was the process that was at fault

Amazon pulled this big, secretive "Miss America" pageant thing, and all the cities were going "oooh, oooh, pick me, pick me." And they all started strutting and batting their eyelashes (and wooing with huge incentives), because it became sort of a pride thing. And the public sort of got into the who will win thing, out of local pride, even though they were leery of these big tax incentives and the effects on the city. Everyone wanted to "win" but there were a lot of contestants and the chances were sort of slim, so nobody paid too much attention to the details.

And then the envelope was opened, and it was like, oh, maybe we don't want the crown.

I can't say whether LIC and New York were right or wrong to reconsider what they were getting into. But between the non-union jobs and the impact on communities, it opened eyes. Lesson: don't enter a pageant if you don't consider all that it will entail (expensive dresses and stylists and coaches, harassment, embarrassment, sore feet, etc.). Amazon thought their crown was irresistible. It was not. Half of those jobs were going to be tech-related (and so not gleaning workers from the communities, presumably), and who knows what the other half would have been (they never said; perhaps contract workers making minimum wage?)

My city was gung-ho on getting the nod, too. And I was leery. We already had gotten a Google campus near my place, and it has pretty much destroyed the neighborhood, at least for us. All the meatpacking and wholesale food purveyors are gone, replaced by tony, loud restaurants filled with cocktails and (loud) young folk, Anthropologie and Free People boutiques, and—hell—my wholesale fish market, which drew people of all ethnicities for a bounty of reasonably price fish and seafood delicacies, is gone. We've been gentrified out of our own industrial neighborhood.