11-year-old arrested after refusing to stand for Pledge of Allegiance

[jpak]

https://nypost.com/2019/02/17/11-year-old-arrested-after-refusing-to-stand-for-pledge-of-allegiance/

An 11-year-old student was arrested after refusing to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and allegedly telling a teacher that “the flag is racist and the national anthem is offensive to black people,” according to reports.

The boy, a student at Lawton Chiles Middle Academy in Lakeland, Fla., was charged with disrupting a school function and resisting arrest without violence for the Feb. 4 outburst, according to Bay News 9.

He was also issued a three-day suspension.

His mother, Dhakira Talbot, said officials took things too far by arresting her son, who she said is in gifted classes and has been bullied in the past.

<moew>

[kwolf68]

1. Lets get this kid into the Hitler youth now

He obviously has personal convictions and the courage to act on them and a free country can't stand for that.

[workinclasszero]

10. If he was a MAGA hat

NBC would be having a sit down with him on national tv!

And major churches would find no fault in him either!

[iluvtennis]

54. Exactly.

[NJCher]

47. key word

"gifted."

[corbettkroehler]

59. Minors Aren't Allowed Conscientious Objector Status? News To Me

I live in Central Florida. The Sheriff of Polk County seems to have his head on straight and pursues real criminals with due vigor. I suspect that he will intervene here and let the world know that the arresting officer overreacted.

In other counties in the region, including those with majority GOP elected officials, the issue of standing for the Pledge has been resolved sensibly.

[whopis01]

69. You are talking about Grady Judd? Are you serious?

First, he doesn’t have jurisdiction in this case. It was the Lakeland PD who made the arrest, not the Sherrif’s Office.


But beyond that, Judd is a right wing Republican.

He wants everyone to have guns so that “if you need to shoot somebody, shoot ‘em a lot.”

When asked why his officers fired 110 rounds at a suspected cop killer, hitting him 68 times he said it was because “that’s all the bullets we had”.

He threatened to lock up Tim Cook (Apple CEO) if they wouldn’t unlock phones of suspects.

During Hurricane Irma he tweeted out that they were going to have officers at shelters running checks on everyone so they could arrest and lock up anyone with a warrant.


I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for him to criticize the Lakeland PD for their actions here.

[Dustlawyer]

61. The irony is lost on them.

The “Freedom” they are pledging is supposed to allow this boy the right to not stand and pledge. They violate the pledge they are making by trying to force him to do the same.

[Botany]

2. That young man and his family are about to get lots of money to settle the case.

n/t

[notdarkyet]

6. Yep. Right for students to not stand decades ago in SC.

[corbettkroehler]

58. First, The Kaepernick Settlement, Now This - Lovin' In! (n/t)

[elleng]

3. Florida

[kacekwl]

4. Arrested ?

Who thought that was a good idea ? 11 years old people. Think for just a moment before acting supposed adults.

[iluvtennis]

57. Used to be you got detention for couple of periods -. Hope the parents sue the teacher & school

[procon]

5. first amendment the hell out of that school! nt

[marble falls]

7. Jebus. Whats wrong with Florida?

[pangaia]

40. Do you REALLY want to get into that???

[vlyons]

8. yes way too far

I'm 72 yr, and I don't pledge alligence to the flag. I do stand out or respect to others who do stand. The flag is a SYMBOL, but the flag itself is a piece of cloth and completely empty, void of patriotism, freedom and liberty for all. All those characteristics that people impute onto the flag are not in the flag; they are in the minds of people pledging alligence.

As a Buddhist, I take refuge in the Buddha, dharma, and sangha. I hope the boy's parents sue that school for big bucks.

[WheelWalker]

23. That has been my approach since 1967. You are right on.

I will stand. I will not pledge.

[triron]

28. I refuse to as well.

[Blue_playwright]

42. Me three. And I tell my kids that they don't have to

It’s creepy, especially when they make kids do it.

[brush]

35. I naven't since my Black Students Union days. Things have still not been...

dealty with here for POCs.

[Shrike47]

49. Me, too, since 1963. What was going on in the South made me decline to say the flag salute.

[greymattermom]

32. A piece of cloth

made in China, too.

[Ms. Toad]

51. Same, since the 60s.

Occasionally, as a reporter who was forced to put up with the pledge more than I cared to, peope would notice. Mostly we'd have a nice conversation and I hope they started to think a bit more about the words they were saying by rote.

No gain, for me, in offending those around me - but this 11 year old was absolutely entitled to remain seated (and the response to him tips me more in the direction of intentionally making those around me uncomfortable.

[workinclasszero]

9. Paging ACLU

How the ***k does this happen in a supposedly free country???

[world wide wally]

11. Sounds pretty American to me

[RKP5637]

13. Yep! America, Inc. with autocratic rules of obedience and major stupidity! n/t

[RKP5637]

12. FFS!!! Can mandatory prayer sessions be far off? Hope to hell they sue them for this

outrageous bogus charge.

[dem4decades]

15. All there needs to be is a 5-4 ruling and it's done.

[workinclasszero]

16. Yeah

Any day now.

[RKP5637]

19. In America, there are far too many authoritarians, politicians, lawyers, religious freaks and liars.

[Hotler]

14. The cops are in on this, not just the school.

Did he also fail to pray?

[Iggo]

22. The pleadge of allegiance IS a prayer.

[Ms. Toad]

52. No it's not.

Inserting the phrase "under god," does not change a secular nationalistic promise into a prayer.

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

17. It was a SUBSTITUTE teacher who was later dismissed...

from the OP link:

Kennedy said he couldn’t discuss the boy’s discipline. Alvarez will no longer work as a substitute teacher in Polk County, he said.

“Our HR department will contact Kelly Services, which provides our substitutes, to further refine how our substitutes are trained,” Kennedy said.

So the Sub was dismissed. County-wide Subs will now be re-trained. But the kid gets arrested.

HMMM. Something doesn't add up here.

[Cryptoad]

43. Polk County Schools Bd of ED owns up to

not doing their due diligents in seeing that Subs were giving the proper training,,,,,,, Can u say Slam dunk????

[IllinoisBirdWatcher]

64. They will declare a county-wide "emergency" to try and skate. eom

[Traildogbob]

46. Who vetting theses subs, Devos?

A sub teacher was dismissed last week in Raleigh, N.C. For teaching students Martin Luther King Jr was not murdered, that he committed suicide, after student went home and let parents know. More Devos indoctrination?

[Vinca]

18. Sounds like a lawsuit . . . get that kid's college tuition paid now!

[Botany]

27. Attorney for Polk County Public School District, "I would like to talk to you about a settlement."

Attorney for the police, "I would like to talk to you about a settlement."

Family's Attorney, "Sure we can talk."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. What school-to-prison pipeline?

[Iggo]

21. And this is supposed to make me feel better about people who whack off to the flag?

Hmm.

[Pepsidog]

24. Very hard to believe. Cops will hit arrest an 11 year for this. If true we are in trouble.

[mitch96]

25. I suspect this is exactly what the NFL wanted to do to Colin Kaepernick.

Wrap him up, shut him up and move on to the next game...
m

[Doodley]

26. Who was acting like the 11 year old in this story?

[zentrum]

29. School is proving...

.....this courageous little boy's point.

[volstork]

30. No doubt

the ACLU is on this.

[Initech]

31. RIP 1st Amendment. 1789 - 2019. You will be missed.

[jalan48]

33. West Virginia v. Barnette: The freedom to not pledge allegiance

Justice Jackson wrote in 1943,

The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure, but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. … [F]reedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.

https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/west-virginia-v.-barnette-the-freedom-to-not-pledge-allegiance

[McKim]

34. We Don't Stand for it!

Since my brother in law died in Vietnam for a lie, we don’t stand or salute. We told our daughter to do the same. When her teacher asked at a PT conference, we told her why and that it was our daughter’s legal right. End of story. This looks like a lawsuit to me. I yearn for the day when the part about Liberty and Justice for All is true and THEN I will stand and salute.

[RoBear]

36. Wasn't this settled years ago?

Jehovah's Witnesses do not stand for flag salute, and they are protected by at least one court case.

I no longer say the pledge of allegiance -- we DO NOT have "liberty an justice for all"! Ask any minority.

I also have lost all respect for the SSB, mostly because as a musician I recognize that musically it's a piece of crap (based on an old English drinking song BTW), and I have little respect for the lyrics.

Oddly enough, I was really pretty tepid about these things until our current POSOUS.

[Iggo]

39. How many times do I have to pledge my allegiance? It seems like once should do it.

I pledged my allegiance to the republic for which it stands way back in the 60s.

Once was enough.

[Blue_Tires]

71. +1

[Takket]

37. yeah.... let's not use this as a teachable moment......

Let's not talk about racism and perceptions and what the flag means to people... let's just arrest a little kid. good idea.

fucking idiots.

[Basement Beat]

38. Black people in America are shown time and time again that we do not matter.

Why pledge to a flag that does not effectively represent us. And look at what lesson is taught here, you'll get arrested for refusing to support a system that is actively against you.

Must be nice to be protected by the government you are raised under. A lot of us have never experienced that.

[pangaia]

41. Several years ago somebody spit on me because I walked out to the

bathroom during the 7th inning "god bless america.' Didn't take my hat off...

[democratisphere]

44. Freedom of speech and expression.

WTF?!

[IronLionZion]

45. Ask anyone from any other country

America's forced patriotism feels a lot like an authoritarian dictatorship.

[Evolve Dammit]

48. Lead the way to being good little Nazis

Florida! What a white bread land you are. God's Waiting Room. No room for another race, religion or even a different opinion among your own populace, even if they're white. Zero tolerance of expression of opinion. Any one can take a knee or not stand and blindly recite the pledge. It's protected free speech; unless y'all want to try to unravel the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

[Liberalhammer]

50. Can we find who the teacher was?

Doxx them and destroy their life?

[barbtries]

53. an 11-year-old taken to jail.

arrested. for acknowledging our racist heritage. not okay.

[IADEMO2004]

55. Thou shalt have no other gods before me except the U.S.A. Flag

First Amendment and Commandment ain't what they used to be.

[lillypaddle]

56. NY Post is a rag

but if this is true, I hope to hell somebody sues these bastards!

[HopeAgain]

60. Patriotism is dangerous

This is why I don't buy into it.

[secondwind]

62. How low can we go? Are we THERE YET? This is disgusting beyond words!

[Lotusflower70]

63. That's illegal

ACLU have you seen this?

[smirkymonkey]

65. This is just so sick and so wrong!

WTF is wrong with this country? Calling ACLU!

[Laffy Kat]

66. How can they arrest a child for not standing?

It's a choice here in Colorado. What happened to free speech? Where is the ACLU?

[DFW]

67. It's the school officials and the offending cops who need to be arrested.

Tried for assault and battery as well as illegal detention.

As for their precious pledge, I have posted this before, but here again is the true story of my elder daughter's first encounter with our pledge of allegiance:

My daughters were born and raised here in Germany. They have dual citizenship. German high school kids are encouraged to take a semester or a year of high school abroad if they can handle the language requirement. My elder daughter chose to go to a place she had visited before, but never lived up to that time: the USA. The easiest (and cheapest!) place was the public school nearest to my US residence in Dallas, and she could live with my housemates who live there full time. Since Dallas was still my legal residence back then (last century!), it was no problem to enroll her.

I flew over with her for the first week, just to make sure she settled in OK, and to be there to answer any questions she might have needed to raise with teachers, never having lived in the USA before. After the first few days, except for being considered REALLY weird for riding a bicycle to school ("you really ride that thing?" ), the only thing she found strange was the ritual chanting they did every morning.

Ritual chanting? In a Texas public school?

She said yes, they did it every morning. I was pretty sure this was not a Buddhist school and I had overlooked it. So, I asked what it was they chanted.

She said that they mostly mumbled it, and she could only make out the first line, which was, "I spread the peaches."

I was lost. "You're telling me your whole class does a ritual unison chant every morning that starts with 'I spread the peaches' in a Texas public school?"

She said there was more of it, but they always mumbled it as if they were bored, and the rest of the chant was unintelligible. Since they ALL did it, she felt too embarrassed to ask what they were doing, seeing as how she seemed to be the only one who had no idea what was going on.

I asked if that was all they did that seemed weird. What if she had landed into some hidden cult, or something? She said they all stood up, looked in the same direction, put their hands on their chests and chanted the same thing every day.

A light went off. It had been a LONG time since I was in public school in the USA, and in Germany, no such thing is done. Things didn't work out too well here the last time exaggerated patriotic rituals were compulsory. I had completely forgotten to tell her that this was done in the USA. Her English was already pretty good, but words like "pledge" and allegiance" just don't come up in everyday conversation with a 16 year old, so she had never had any reason to know what they meant. She just heard the closest thing to words she recognized. So, "I pledge allegiance" became, in her ears, "I spread the peaches." For all the enthusiasm it seemed to inspire in those Dallas high school kids, they might as well have REALLY been saying, "I spread the peaches."

[lpbk2713]

68. He was thinking for himself. Not being a robot.

This should be encouraged. Not punished.

They went way too extreme on this.

[ashling]

70. When I did this in 1968 ( and, more importantly, the prayer)

All that I got was 20 minutes of the class trying to convert me to Christianity and Republicanism.